I projected this morning!!

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

I was definitely OOB this morning.  I was flying - oh how I enjoy flying!

I obviously did not have much lucidity, which is why I can't remember much.  Although I know I was in a building (college, I think), and trying to help people.  I was walking down a corridor when I saw the back of someone who I thought I recognised, a childhood friend.  But when she turned to face me, I had doubts if it was her as she looked different.  (I didn't know you can bump into living people in the astral!) She seemed worried about something, and I said some encouraging words to her.  Then went out of the building and jumped up and flew around.  The students looked up and saw me with amazement.  (was I showing off?  )

Two things I learned from this OBE: 1) early mornings are the best times (at least for me) to try to project.  Fyi, after I got up in the morning, I did some energy exercises, and went back to a light sleep just before I projected (so it wasn't all spontaneous!).  2) I felt like I was there in a helping capacity - I had some confidence in myself, and understood people's worries including my old friend's.  And somehow I was quietly proud of myself.  That's also why I felt like I was showing off, because I knew the others couldn't fly.

Please let me know if any of this makes sense to you!  I'm still trying to remember the rest.

Thanks
Venus

[MinstruelZ]

Good job! The combination of getting up early and doing lots of energy work has yielded the best results for me.

[Star_gazer]

I was definitely OOB this morning.  I was flying - oh how I enjoy flying!

I obviously did not have much lucidity, which is why I can't remember much.  Although I know I was in a building (college, I think), and trying to help people.  I was walking down a corridor when I saw the back of someone who I thought I recognised, a childhood friend.  But when she turned to face me, I had doubts if it was her as she looked different.  (I didn't know you can bump into living people in the astral!) She seemed worried about something, and I said some encouraging words to her.  Then went out of the building and jumped up and flew around.  The students looked up and saw me with amazement.  (was I showing off?  )

Two things I learned from this OBE: 1) early mornings are the best times (at least for me) to try to project.  Fyi, after I got up in the morning, I did some energy exercises, and went back to a light sleep just before I projected (so it wasn't all spontaneous!).  2) I felt like I was there in a helping capacity - I had some confidence in myself, and understood people's worries including my old friend's.  And somehow I was quietly proud of myself.  That's also why I felt like I was showing off, because I knew the others couldn't fly.

Please let me know if any of this makes sense to you!  I'm still trying to remember the rest.

Thanks
Venus

r u sure u weren't dreaming? or it sounds like u were caught in the dream world in midst of projecting. That's happened to me a couple of times when i'v fallen to close to sleep. But i absolutely love flying, its positively the best experience of any kind!

[newmethod]

r u sure u weren't dreaming? or it sounds like u were caught in the dream world in midst of projecting. That's happened to me a couple of times when i'v fallen to close to sleep.

I agree & also believe this sounds like a LD. If this is an OBE i've had heaps... 

But i absolutely love flying, its positively the best experience of any kind!

Yeah. next closest to that i love telekinesis..

I've had heaps of dreams in cycles where i'm doing a lot of attempting to project, and wake in them becoming lucid.
I do dream reality checks that i think should work (in the dream but seem not to - cause i'm sure i'm dreaming when i awaken) but the checks help convince me that i am awake and that the powers i possess (ie. flying or telekinesis, whatever) have passed through the dream state and are now occuring in the awake state... I'm like YES Finally...

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

Thanks for your comments.  Questions for you - Can you fly in a dream?  Can you make conscious decisions in a dream?  I doubt it.  From my experience, in dreams, I am passive, things happen to me - I don't make them happen.  In dreams, I don't think and articulate.  However, in a projection, I am in control, because I'm conscious and am able to make assessments.

Although things were a bit hazy in this projection, I was assessing the environment around me, feeling compassion for others, and making decision to concentrate my energy to jump up and fly.  The most lucid moment was when I came across my old friend - the first thing I thought was 'what's she doing here in the astral?' (that's because the last time I saw her she was more into physical things than spiritual).  And then when I had doubts if that was her, I said to myself, it doesn't matter because I will help her anyway.  And thought that she might not be aware that she's projected.  In my opinion this is an indication that I was thinking with my 'astral' mind, not my physical brain - because I knew that it didn't matter who I helped as long as they want to be helped - we are all parts of the same energy.

Also I am partly at fault because I should have recorded it immediately while it was still fresh in my mind.  I wrote it down at the end of the day when I came back from work, which didn't help to remember the details.

happy to hear your thoughts

[newmethod]

Thanks for your comments.  Questions for you - Can you fly in a dream?  Can you make conscious decisions in a dream?  I doubt it. 

i did it last night 

Although things were a bit hazy in this projection, I was assessing the environment around me, feeling compassion for others, and making decision to concentrate my energy to jump up and fly.

I've even had full energy body chakra stimulation in my dreams (which at the time caused me to believe i was awake or projecting) but on waking up i knew this chakra stimulation was definately happening in a dream.

[Star_gazer]

I've had heaps of dreams in cycles where i'm doing a lot of attempting to project, and wake in them becoming lucid.
I do dream reality checks that i think should work (in the dream but seem not to - cause i'm sure i'm dreaming when i awaken) but the checks help convince me that i am awake and that the powers i possess (ie. flying or telekinesis, whatever) have passed through the dream state and are now occuring in the awake state... I'm like YES Finally...
[/quote]

yes i do those checks too. Tho sometimes i just let the dream takeover because i am just 2 exhausted by a certain point.

As for making conscious decisions in a dream, well a dream is just a dream but i have definitely made conscious decisions whilst projecting by controlling what direction i want to take. It requires alot of concentration.

[CFTraveler]

I fly in dreams all the time, even completely nonlucid ones.
In fact, one of the main triggers of lucidity used to be flying and then realizing I wasn't supposed to be able to do this, and then becoming lucid, and changing things from there.
Nowadays, I have a different type of nonlucid dream- I'll remember how to fly from the memory of my previous dream, think it's supposed to be like that (I know I'm not normal but I haven't worked out I'm dreaming, I just think I'm in the place where I can fly) and then fly.  Sometimes I'll be amazed that others don't seem to realize they can fly too, and sometimes I just don't tell them and enjoy the experience.
Still nonlucid, though.

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

hi guys - CFTraveller, Stargazer and Newmethod

Let's agree to disagree.  If you ask me, I would say none of you were dreaming, you were projected with low lucidity.

I have taken all 4 modules of IAC (international academy of consciousness www.iacworld.org) run by very experienced OBEers, and the first thing they would tell you is that projection is no big deal - WE ALL LEAVE OUR BODIES EVERY TIME WE FALL ASLEEP.  The thing is when you fall asleep your astral body leaves your body to rest (that's the purpose of sleep) and - for most people - most of the time, the astral body hovers just above the physical when they're resting - all night through.  Sometimes their astral bodies go to places but they have little lucidity (not awake in the astral), so they think they were dreaming when in actual fact, they were not.  I have read projection diaries of Dr Vieiera (founder of IAC), Monroe and Buhlman about places in the astral where humans unconsciously visit in their 'sleep'.

Some people are able to 'wake up' in their projections - but at different levels of lucidity.  The more lucid you are the more you're convinced that you're projected.  And obviously some people are advanced enough to plan and execute their projections while fully conscious.

The IAC has a definition of 'dream', and teaches about its nature and purpose, which I find sensible.  I therefore am able to tell when I dream and when I project - with either high or low lucidity.  My aim is to wake up and take control when I'm projected. 

I still dream, and I know what the dream is about when I wake up in the morning.  I don't pay much attention to dreams.

[newmethod]

I don't pay much attention to dreams.

Thank you for your comments but i hope you pay dreams enough attention as dreams can offer some much needed counsel at times... and can be very insightful in themselves

[blackcat]

Venus, this would make sense.  WHen flying, it always has that weird feeling like not just a dream, like some part of me is really moving.  The flying itself can make me get lucid just because it feels so weird. 

Historically, there has been various definitions of lucid dreaming, dreaming, and out of body travel.  Out of body travel has often been a definition that is saved for those uber cool experiences that are less dreamlike and more real feeling even than real life and they feel so special.  I think it's hard for people to think they go out of body every night and that dreams are special.  We have been conditioned our entire lives to believe that dreams are not important or maybe only useful for showing subconscious pyschological issues. 

Personally, it's those uber cool events that are more memorable and special for me, events in which there is no doubt that was an OBE.  The lower lucidity ones are just not nearly as cool!   

Thanx for the explanation.  That theory does explain why one could go out of body every night but some of them can be tiring but others not at all.  Perhaps moving the consciousness more away from the body is more tiring for the body.

BTW, maybe you would be willing to give the IAC definition of a dream?  I'm curious..

-Eva

[Star_gazer]

WHen flying, it always has that weird feeling like not just a dream, like some part of me is really moving.  The flying itself can make me get lucid just because it feels so weird. 

Historically, there has been various definitions of lucid dreaming, dreaming, and out of body travel.  Out of body travel has often been a definition that is saved for those uber cool experiences that are less dreamlike and more real feeling even than real life and they feel so special. 

That's exactly the way i feel when i fly, its so real. Even more real than real life. Whatever 'experts' say, i don't think that we leave our body's everytime we fall asleep, possibly our conciousness does but not like projection. Projection is when u actually leave ur body, like ur body leaves ur body (if that makes sense) and you are either very slightly or more aware of this happening. Dreams r just dreams most of he time but sometimes i do believe dreams are a source of powerful knowledge, depending on ur state of mind at a particular time. I hope som1 is able 2 make sense of what i'm rambling about.

[blackcat]

I think we do a lot of really cool things every night.  But if you have had a lot of OBEs, you will probably recall times when you went off someplace and your consciousness changed and you can't now recall what  happened then.   Even dreams can be hard to recall if not written down immediately.  I think a lot of that stuff just does not easily translate to the kind of consciousness we have when we are awake. 

It's like they that state dependent learning the scientists sometimes talk about.  Research has shown that when you are in a certain state, it's much easier to remember things that happened when you were in a similar state in the past.  Well I think when we are asleep, we more easily remember things from other times when we were asleep, and when we are awake, we more easily remember things better from other times when we were awake.
-Eva

[Greytraveller]

Venus
Your experience certainly seems like an OBE to me.
Plus you started your account with the words

I was definitely OOB this morning.

That always annoys me when I post an account of one of my OBEs and someones else responds with (something like) "You were probably only dreaming" .
Yet you handled those Doubting Thomases quite well. Don't let others doubts shake your own confidence. You are able to discern the difference between an OBE and a dream. So just keep rolling along (and you do appear to be on a good roll OBE-wise).

btw that familiar person that you met in the college could have been your friend who was also out of body yet did not realize it. She might have been confusing her own OBE with dream imagery. According to other OBE accounts that I have read that sort of thing does happen frequently.

Grey

[newmethod]

Interesting.. when you said

Sometimes their astral bodies go to places but they have little lucidity (not awake in the astral), so they think they were dreaming when in actual fact, they were not.

Where were they when they thought they were dreaming??

By this definition were they projecting at a lowish level of lucidity?

BTW, maybe you would be willing to give the IAC definition of a dream?  I'm curious..

So am i.. Thank you,

Newmethod

[CFTraveler]

hi guys - CFTraveller, Stargazer and Newmethod

Let's agree to disagree.  If you ask me, I would say none of you were dreaming, you were projected with low lucidity.

I have taken all 4 modules of IAC (international academy of consciousness www.iacworld.org) run by very experienced OBEers, and the first thing they would tell you is that projection is no big deal - WE ALL LEAVE OUR BODIES EVERY TIME WE FALL ASLEEP.  The thing is when you fall asleep your astral body leaves your body to rest (that's the purpose of sleep) and - for most people - most of the time, the astral body hovers just above the physical when they're resting - all night through.  Sometimes their astral bodies go to places but they have little lucidity (not awake in the astral), so they think they were dreaming when in actual fact, they were not.  I have read projection diaries of Dr Vieiera (founder of IAC), Monroe and Buhlman about places in the astral where humans unconsciously visit in their 'sleep'.

Some people are able to 'wake up' in their projections - but at different levels of lucidity.  The more lucid you are the more you're convinced that you're projected.  And obviously some people are advanced enough to plan and execute their projections while fully conscious.

The IAC has a definition of 'dream', and teaches about its nature and purpose, which I find sensible.  I therefore am able to tell when I dream and when I project - with either high or low lucidity.  My aim is to wake up and take control when I'm projected. 

I still dream, and I know what the dream is about when I wake up in the morning.  I don't pay much attention to dreams.

I don't disagree with you Venus.  To me all dreams are projections, some to collective environments, some to subconsciously produced environments.  But I distinguish them by the exit, just for classification purposes.  If I perceive an exit, I call it OBE or AP.  If I don't, I call it dream, whether lucid or not.  To me all have value, for different purposes.  It's just how I classify the experience.

[newmethod]

I don't disagree with you Venus.  To me all dreams are projections, some to collective environments, some to subconsciously produced environments.  But I distinguish them by the exit, just for classification purposes.  If I perceive an exit, I call it OBE or AP.  If I don't, I call it dream, whether lucid or not.  To me all have value, for different purposes.  It's just how I classify the experience.

Easiest way to differentiate the two i have heard of..

Thank you CFTraveler for your input!

Question though: If some projections/dreams are to collective environments (produced collectively), some to subconsciously produced environments (produced by us) then what is producing the RTZ? what is keeping it together? The Creator? is the creator also involved in our subconsciously produced environments..

[Lighten]

Venus, you have been misinformed. I think you have never had an OBE, you have just had lucid dreams. Or the other way around, you have never had a lucid dream and only had OBE's, because they are distinctly different from one another. Your comments about "people can't make conscious decisions in dreams" well they cant when there not lucid. Seems like your institute is just telling you that lucid dreams are projections (which they are not).

read up on lucid dreaming so you have something to compare your self proclaimed projections to.

[CFTraveler]

Hey there newmethod.
Your question

Question though: If some projections/dreams are to collective environments (produced collectively), some to subconsciously produced environments (produced by us) then what is producing the RTZ? what is keeping it together? The Creator? is the creator also involved in our subconsciously produced environments..

Would be a larger metaphysical question, because according to most metaphysical theory everything in the threedimensional universe is 'consensus reality'  and we are aspects of creator, that is we channel creative drive, and are part of it.  So the separation of creator-us isn't really there, except in our perception of objectivity. (Like I said, this is a 'big picture' question.)
But to go into more specific projection theory, I'd say that the RTZ is the closest to physical reality, which may make it 'independent' of the observer, or an indirect creation of the observer, depending on how you look at the world.
Me, I'm a panentheist, which puts all of us as cocreators with God.
But that's another thread, I think.

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

Venus, you have been misinformed. I think you have never had an OBE, you have just had lucid dreams. Or the other way around, you have never had a lucid dream and only had OBE's, because they are distinctly different from one another. Your comments about "people can't make conscious decisions in dreams" well they cant when there not lucid. Seems like your institute is just telling you that lucid dreams are projections (which they are not).

read up on lucid dreaming so you have something to compare your self proclaimed projections to.

Thank you for your comments but I respectfully disagree.  I know my own experiences better than you, so I'll trust my own assessment.  I suggest you take up your own advice and 'read up' about the differences between OBEs and dreams as well as about respecting others rights to perceive their experiences in their own distinct ways, without trying to influence them to meet your limited expectations.  We are all here on a learning path and not to judge each other.  As the owner of this thread, I'd like to say that I don't welcome negative and patronizing comments so if you have any more of them, please keep them to yourself. Thanks again.

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

Interesting.. when you said

Where were they when they thought they were dreaming??

By this definition were they projecting at a lowish level of lucidity?

So am i.. Thank you,

Newmethod

hi both, I know what the definition is but would like to quote it directly from my notes and their book, so I'll come back to you shortly.  Thanks for your patience.

Venus

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

ok here we go!

from my course notes under 'Altered States of Consciousness':

Dreaming is a function of the physical brain.  It occurs when the brain "defragments" (in computer terms), i.e. removes unnecessary memories to restructure the brain and create available space. 

Brainwaive patterns during sleep - SEE DIAGRAM BELOW:
1) Beta - waking state, 2) Alpha - hypnagogic/hypnapompic state, 3) Theta - light sleep, 4) Delta - deep sleep

Dream:
- only happens during sleep and particularly during increased REM (rapid eye movement)
- is a normal mental activity
- has none or low rationality
- no recollection of the reality of physical life
- is an altered state of consciousness with ordinary experiences and feelings
- is frequently permeated with distorted images
- is easier and clearer to recall than projection which happens outside the physical brain
- images could be generated by sensor stimulation
- doesn't relate to sensations or preliminary phenomena
- dreamer is a passive observer of images and his/her perceptions are subjective

Dream cycles:
- Sleep stage 1: small irregular brainwaives
- Sleep stage 2: appearance of sleep spindles
- Sleep stage 3: appearance of data waves
- REM: rapid eye movement when dreams happen.  During REM you can dream or have an out of body experience up to 4 times a night (during 8 hours of sleep - see diagram below)

From IAC's book 'Projectiology'
page758:
"The person who is able to learn to recall natural ordinary dreams, improves the recollection of lucid projecion experiences"

page 662:
"If, during the development of a dream, your consciousness tells you that you are dreaming and that you are going to separate from the human body, your dream will end and give way to a lucid projection.  Upon interiorizing, simply tell yourself that you will leave again and this will end up happening."

CFTraveller - this is why I don't agree with what you said about dreams - specifically, if you don't perceive an exit, then you decide that it's a dream.  From the quote above, plus the classes I have taken, and my own experience, dreams can serve as 'bridges' to lucid projections.  At least on two occasions, I have "woken up" during dreams, became fully conscious and decided to go explore the astral.

I'll post more quotes as and when I find them, but I hope this is sufficient for now.

Best wishes
Venus

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

THE SLEEP CYCLE

[newmethod]

Dream:
- is an altered state of consciousness with ordinary experiences and feelings

Thanks for the definition and your work but not sure about the definition above.

i have had many EXTRAORDINARY experiences and feelings during what i would term dreams 

[Venus_Goddess_of_Love]

Thanks for the definition and your work but not sure about the definition above.

i have had many EXTRAORDINARY experiences and feelings during what i would term dreams 

Hi newmethod - have you considered the possibility that the 'extraordinary' experiences were more than dreams?  See list below re other Alterned States of Consciousness (ASC) which I copied from my notes.  (Apologies if I'm repeating something you know already)

ASC phenomenon
1.   Clairvoyance (Clarus-Videre = to see clearly in Latin). 
2.   Remote viewing
3.   Telephathy
4.   Bilocation
5.   Animism (anima = soul in Greek)
6.   Mediumship
7.   Channelling
8.   Auric coupling
9.   Intuition
10.   Deja-vu
11.   Retrocognition
12.   Precognition