The ownership

[Telos]

I wanted to say that I think the boundaries between dreams and reality have never been more blurred, for me. Last night I had vivid dreams all through the night (not just getting gradually more vivid at the night went on). Some were musical, others cinematic, and still others like video games - all of them could've been created a few years ago, or a few years from now. It was like viewing art that was out of the context of the reality that created it.

Anyways, I do have an experience to share. I was at a really awesome club/bar. Very few people, incredibly elegant architectural design and lighting, until I noticed that it was "art out of worldly context." I wasn't thinking those words at the time, but I suppose that's how it felt. It was like...

"Wait, did you just say...? Oh my goodness, this is a dream isn't it." The people around me smiled, as if they understood my realization. But the place was already too vivid, already too real. I looked at the architecture of the club... did I create this? How could I have created something so beautiful, without even knowing it?

I asked my new friend, a girl I had been talking to, "who created this place?" There was a thought drifting somewhere in my feelings that reminded me of LaBerge, that this is all imagination just being created by the brain, and that therefore I was the creator, but I was missing something... how did I have this ability to create without intention? Or at least, without lucid intention?

She didn't seem to understand the question at first, because she wasn't answering. "Well, do you know?" I said to her gently. She smiled in a way that told me she thought I was just being silly, but also recognized that there was a genuine piece to my question.

"The ownership," she said.

"Well, who's the owner?" I said.

She shook her head, maybe upset that I longer seemed interested in her, "Brad?"

"Where is he?"

"Over there."

The owner was a tall stocky man sitting behind a desk, looking at financial sheets. I was disappointed. I was expecting some kind of oversoul experience or something... something that would elevate my understanding of what it meant to create reality. I walked over to him.

"Do you know the owners of other establishments?" I said.

"Sure. I know the owner of Disney. Would you like me to take you to them?"

"Sure," I said. Whatever, I thought. Maybe they would prove to be more enlightening.

The club opened up into another building, like a shopping mall, and we walked across the way to another part and down a corridor. He picked up a phone on the side of a door and said something. And we waited. It must've been 5 or 10 minutes. Other goofy-looking people (with no apparent relation to Goofy himself) walked passed us, reminding me of people I used to know in school.

I was frustrated and awoke.

It's really obvious to me now. I was the owner of my experience until I subjected it to someone else, and I built that place. It is still a mystery to me how, but that's how it is, nonetheless.

[wisp]

Telos,

I wanted to say that I think the boundaries between dreams and reality have never been more blurred, for me.  

I hope by blurr, you don't mean your manifesting confusion in your waking time?    Though, yes indeed, I've been discovering this all along, with my dream studies. It's fascinating!!!! It's been answering questions I've had all my life!

[Telos]

Wisp, I mean that dreams by themselves are more "real," but in a specific way. This includes increased vividness, but also includes the potential that they could've been experienced just as easily in the waking state, mostly as an art form. Before any kind of dream music or cinema, etc., had a firm emotional essence but a detached phenomenal stability - I could never fully discern the notes, colors, or lines, but I could still enjoy the emotional effect.

And, of course, I'm speaking of normal dreams, because once you go lucid all of that changes. But with this experience it did not change. Everything was already discernible, as if I had already been lucid but wasn't aware I was lucid? That makes absolutely no sense and is paradoxical, but that's what it was nonetheless.

I think the ownership refers to lack of ownership in creative endaevours such as these. That is, your conscious mind does not claim or own the creative experience, since we often seperate ourselves from these parts inside of us.

...

So all in all, if I would have this experience I would interpret it as a message is to own or claim these experiences (as well as your major preoccupations in daily real life such as school).

That may be the only difference between non-lucid and lucid creation.

MajorTom, this is profound insight. Thank you.

I've always recognized that everyone in a dream is "you," but there is not much "advancement" on this realization alone. When handled carelessly it (seriously) leads to schizophrenia. But you have suggested an appropriate course of action - namely, to stake claim to experience.

It's very ironic. One of my sisters has come home for a while until she finds a new place, and she is very much like my father. Both of them feel like they have to "stand up" up for themselves, like they are each being cheated or taken advantage of. As you can surmise, this leads to some deeply awful yelling and screaming. They feel that they are each "taking responsibility" for their lives and "staking claim" to their experience. But, they are really doing the opposite! In blaming each other, they are claiming that the other is responsible.

How awful it is that people can believe they are doing one thing but are actually doing the opposite... just terrible.

Staking claim is a continuously active activity, and is not a one time thing, as if planting a flag and then defending it. Certainly, it is related to the myth that great artists are just "taking dictation" from God or some muse. These artists may only say they do because they choose not to explicitly "take claim," even though they absolutely do when they sign their name! This will require focus. Thank you again, MT.