It followed me back

[auraseer]

Hi,
Wow...

Cya,
auraseer.
P.S. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

http://psychicabilities.tripod.com/psychic
********************
Everyone has limits. Learn to extend them and you will go further.

The physical body can do more than people think it can.
********************

[auraseer]

Hi,
Perhaps you weren't supposed to go into that room? An thats why the 'thing' haunted and swore at you? Could it be a lesson?

O.k. Enough of the questions http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>.

Cya,
auraseer.

http://psychicabilities.tripod.com/psychic
********************
Everyone has limits. Learn to extend them and you will go further.

The physical body can do more than people think it can.
********************

[Hephaestus]

Holy fu**ing s**t, to hell with this astral projection stuff, if that can happen im staying well away! its just not worth the bother that comes with it.

[terrance]

Let me make a few things clear.

This was NOT a negative experience - it opened my eyes to possibilities I'd never considered until then.

I knew sweet FA about OBEs and Astral Travel.

If this was a negative experience I would have been hesitant to air it on this site - it's not dirty laundry.  If it was negative I'd at least be asking for help.

That said I must humbly apologise for the tone of the post - but the situation was very scary at the time.  "Perhaps you weren't supposed to go into that room? An that's why the 'thing' haunted and swore at you? Could it be a lesson?"(by auraseer)
I wasn't supposed to be in the room.
That's why it came back for what I'd taken.
It's a big lesson.

Hephaestus wrote: "Holy fu**ing s**t, to hell with this astral projection stuff, if that can happen im staying well away! its just not worth the bother that comes with it."

I'm very sorry to have caused you to think this and it's my fault as I didn't make it all clear in my post.  Previous to this experience I had never had any self training - I knew nothing and had read nothing on the topic.  This could have happened to anyone.  If, however, I'd had known about this site and other material prior to this I would have been in a far better position to deal with the situation at the time.  I would have known not to enter the room and I would not have felt fear towards the being that came back from me.  I would also have had the array of different shields and protections that I'm developing to this date - although I often don't need any type of shield etc..  

With the level of expertise and wisdom that you can tap on this site alone you can prevent these sorts of experiences - or interpret and deal with them in different and more positive ways. Hephaestus, I didn't mean the post to be scary in a negative manner and if anything, by continuing to experiment and learn about OBEs, you will become (probably already are more than strong enough) strong enough to cope with these possibilities.  It's better to be aware and prepared for the possible.

Once again, I didn't mean for this to turn anyone away and I'm sorry it came accross the wrong way.

[wisp]

terrance, I find your posting here very interesting. This is the way to learn.By facing the negative or dark side of things, progress can be made of learning more. For the good I believe.
Do you have any insight in this experience?
I like your insect story on another thread. Thanks for your input on these things. I think their important matters.   http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

[terrance]

Hello again Wisp
Do I have any insight into this experience?
After receiving and digesting the "Soul Travel" book and after speaking to my fiancé about this, I thought that I'd perhaps stumbled across the Akashic Records - but now I'm not too sure about that - I don't know why I'm unsure about this but the doubt is seated here someplace.  As I mentioned in the "insect" post I think there are certain things we shouldn't know about in the physical (direct knowledge at least) and that "protectors" are sent back to scare the living memories out of you - to warn you not to mess.

Having said that, the being that came back did something a lot more proactive.  As is read out the things I'd read/learned I could here it sucking them out of the now, or out of the physical, or just out of my head - it sounded as if it was replacing them all back into the book.  

I'm of the opinion that with greater knowledge I could keep these things from coming back after viewing knowledge otherwise kept away from me.  I think I'm on the verge of discovering ways to do this - but I never will do that.  I feel it would be far to dangerous and reckless.  Moreover, I think it would be unethical to do so.  But knowledge is strength (not the sort of knowledge held in the book but knowledge on how to tackle problems, good and bad, which I'm likely to encounter in any OBE), and if used in a good way could yield great insight into what... into what I don't know.  I feel this is an important question - what am I doing this for?  Is it for the delight of seeing another world?  Is it so that I can be a super human?  Is it to gain immense knowledge and power?  No, it's not any of these - although I do get a little delight:) - but it's a question I want to answer before going much further.

But my astral self is up to something.  It/I (dualities suck) - I knew I shouldn't be in the Library but I did know where I was and what I was doing - and I knew it was dangerous - but what was I (the astral me) up to?

So unfortunately Wisp, any insight I may have gained has manifested into more questions - but interesting and revealing questions.

[wisp]

Terrance, your experiences are amazing. I can't help but think you are on to something. I'll have to check out the book Soul Traveler, sounds interesting.

I'm trying to discover about phantoms. I've had phantoms in my life at various times. I think they hold a key or a message. Your experience reminds me of mine. With mine though it seems these phantoms precede me. This one in particular has been in my dreams, it took awhile for me to recall that this guy had approached me in waking life on several occasions years before. In one dream I had he even went as far as to say, "Do you remember me?".
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

[wisp]

This is a little more of this phantom who later appeared in my dreams.

Description: About 5'10", blonde hair, kinda thin and nice looking.
He acts out as if playing a role. He seems to "over act" things.He does this in my dreams as well as when I met him earlier in my life. In my dreams he seems to be the typical anima/animus figure.

During my life he has....
One time he jumped out from a bush waving a shiny gold knife at me.
He chased behind me once when I was playing a running game with my sister.
One time he was a hitchiker I picked up on a crosscountry trip. I wish I could remember his name.
One time he came to my door all covered with dirt claiming he had been robbed.
One time he jumped out in front of my car at night, I had to swerve to miss him.

[terrance]

Wisp -
Weird.  Were these dreams lucid/OBEs or standard dreams (for want of a better term).  Have you considered the possibility that your dreams (if they were just standard dreams)  have in some way mapped onto these previous experiences in some way?  What I mean is that is it possible that your dreams have used these previous encounters to present to you a figure in your life that wants to tell you something?  I ask these questions and feel that I'm on the verge of some taboo.  So far this reads wrong and sounds as if I'm questioning you on your evaluation of what's happened to you.  That's not the case.  The reason I ask is that I doubt every OBE/dream that I have as best I can otherwise I could spiral down into reading something into everything I experience out of my waking life.  I'm interested in how these experiences actuality took place blow by blow - if you have the time to post them.

Now what you've said brings something to my mind.  I have a friend at work who revealed to me that she was interested in the 'spiritual' and she sees a Medium on a weekly basis with a friend of hers.  She's been unable to "make" anything happen although she has called for her spirit guide to come to her (her friend has found someone).  I think what they're doing is dangerous because of their limited understanding.  As an aside I also think that she's had limited success due to their methods of visualisation (I've just started reading New Energy Ways).  Anyway, a couple of evenings ago, I thought it would be an idea to approach her out of body and present to her a vivid and distinct item (such as a pink camel) to see if she would turn round to me at work and say... "pink camel!?"  I, for want of a better term again, attempted to remote view her.  I sometimes use this to to get out of body - I'll often remote view and get sucked into the astral or RTZ.  I found her sitting in what I imagine is her living room, probably watching TV.  Standing beside her was a someone else and as I moved in closure this figure shook "his" hand at me and came at me - this is the first aggressive entity I've encountered in some time.  My shields fired up solid but he just jumped onto the outer shield and rammed his head through it and then turned his head into something scary.  It wasn't an evil entity because he wouldn't have been able to get though the first shield - the next shield in is one I have to create confusion, and by the time he had a chance to try anything else I zoomed out fast and high - he followed for a while but I managed to remove any thoughts of him out of my head (which seemed to work!?).

Questions:  Why was he standing around my friend?  Is he always close to her?  Did I dream him up because I knew she's been attempting to contact the dead?  Does this mean we all have things standing around us, waiting and protecting?  Is this what you'd also describe as a phantom Wisp?

The reason I didn't post this before now is because I wouldn't class this as a full-blown OBE - there's plenty of room in this one for my imagination to have played a part  - I was remote viewing after all (but i did become more self aware as this experience progressed and for a remote viewing the images were very strong indeed).

Wisp, the first paragraph still reads wrong - after I've slept I look at it again and probably rephrase it.  I've just found my copy of the soul travel book and it is actually called - How I Learned Soul Travel by Terrill Willson(ISBN 0-88155-052-3).  I think I might give it another read - don't think I finished it all last time!  Oh, and I'm not sure it will tell you anyting new but it is a good story of someone's experiences of Astral/Soul Travel.

What do you mean by your "phantoms precede me."

[wisp]

Terrance how interesting. I'm hoping to learn more. It seems to me you are asking the same questions I ask myself,like the questions about the enity around your friend.The enity you described by her I would call a phantom in a different realm. I'm talking about a phantom in my awake realm.

By the statement phantoms precede me I mean that when something that "doesn't fit" happens in my life I will later ponder on it. If the reality of it seems in question I mark it up as a phantom. This particular phantom is one character I'm trying to find out more about.My idea of a phantom is a  person who doesn't seem to be in the same realm as I live. Your idea about the dream character being a result of a collection of previous people makes sense.
I haven't seen this dream figure in the last year. He was mostly in standard dreams. A couple of times he was in lucid dreams. Each time he had a black body suit on, something like a diver's outfit.He had a goggle like mask but each time made sure I saw it was him behind the mask. In one dream(lucid) he was by a pool on a deck. The other time (lucid) he was standing beside a tree.

I'm interesed in your taboo idea. I have a feeling that the darkness dealt with in dreams are not necessarily bad or evil. There may be evil but I haven't experienced any in the dream world. There was one time a dark power hovered over me in bed, and another time this invisible dark enity faced me, but nothing that caused any real great fear. But I'm not saying this possible evil doesn't exist.

I just received my book by R.Bruce last evening. I'm looking forward to reading his book about this. I have another book I bought earlier this year about psychic vampires. This book may have to do with some people but it didn't fit me at all. This other book dealt with common sense issues that can be conquered easily by dealing with one's own personal identity or self.

I wonder about the enity you saw near your friend.It's interesting you mentioned it didn't seem bad. This is what I've been wondering about the dark unseen side. Is it possible some of us have dark world figures as guardians just as some have angels of light? Don't get me wrong, I'm not into that sort of thing in my waking life at all. It just seems with my life experiences and all, I seem to understand alot about the "dark side" information I've been learning about the last few years. Could this possibly be the taboo your talking about Terrance?

Did I read you right in that you question the information in your dreams or obe experiences? I do too to a certain extent. I record all my dreams. I just started recording lucid dreams the last year or so. I didn't know awake dreaming was considered valid as possible real experiences. Once I caught on that it's called lucid dreaming I jumped up on the band wagon. When I record dreams, I make note if it's a lucid dream in my journal.I pursue lucid dreaming now. I do this easily but had never took it seriously before. Now I'm considering it more as part of my dreaming experience.

Sure, I'll write up each incident with my phantom character.

Maybe the dark side of all this is the way Jung describes the Process of Individuation in completing the integration of the personality of Self. Have you ever seen this table by Jung showing The Great Mother and The Wise Old Man?
I can type up this quick and simple graph I found in a dream book, I find it fascinating.

I find your idea of how my anima/animus figure could have developed interesting. It would make sense that the character would have to have a source in which to develop.
I'm not very well read on this particular subject. Thanks for giving me that information. I've been drawn more toward dream symbols and their meaning during this time. My phantom search has been a side issue.

About evil, I do believe it exists. I have had evil encounters in my waking life. I have a tendency to run from it. I'm tired of running from it. I hope R. Bruce's book sheds some light on the issue for me.The evil I have to deal with is like  possession in some people I come in contact with.

Terrance, are you open to saying more about your own discoveries?

As I said, I'll write up a detailed description of my phantom guy. There are others but this one is easiest to explain right now.

Where is "New Ways Energy", is it a book?

Another interesting thing is the subject of remote viewing.Is that something you do in a "lucid" state?

[wisp]

Blonde hair phantom
1. While in grade school and going home for lunch I crossed this familiar street corner. When I got to the other side a young man jumps from behind a bush in someone's yard. He started waving this short curved gold (glowing or reflecting light) knife. I was a bit taken back by his strange behavior. I felt no real threat from him, but his behavior seemed unpredictible, this frightened me. This day was St.Patrick's day, I had this huge green bow in my hair. After I fled from him I thought maybe this green bow had something to with this happening. The teacher that day gave all the girls in class a bow. I felt like this guy was making fun of my bow. I had never seen this fella before. I was shaken by this experience and didn't return to school that day. There had been a recent oddity of this kind across the street on my route to and from school. This incident involved me and my sister, and the guy looked different.This fellow seemed to be about time. Our family moved within a year of this taking place.

2. My sister and I were outside about dusk. We were running relays and timing how long it took to run up the street and around this lamp post and back to in front of our house. The round I took turned strange while running around the lampost. As I rounded the post suddenly there was a young man leaning up against the post, he lunged forward as if joining the race. I kept going but looked back a couple of times at him. He disappeared as quickly as he had appeared at the post. I get to the house and tell my sister to run inside. My sister said she didn't see this guy. Years later (we had moved by then) my mother said she was having ghost problems at this house at the same time this guy chased me. I too had encountered some ghostley activity at this house too but my mother would always explain it away so we wouldn't be frightened to live there.At this time I made no connection between this fella and the fella at the other place we lived (they both had the same physical features).While living at this house I met a gray enity in the basement,but he looked different.This shadow figure(more like a hologram) became who I think may be my guardian, but that's another story.I'm trying to identify the blonde guy.

3. Many years later I'm 25. I'm taking this cross country trip west to see my aunt in California. I stop for this young hitch-hiker (about 17). In hindsight he meets the same description of this blonde guy but I didn't notice at the time. I had forgotten about this hitch-hiker until a couple of years ago. I was talking to a friend online. He happened to tell me about this strange hitch-hiker experience he had years before. While thinking about his experience I remembered this hitcher-hiker I met years before.  While thinking about this hitch-hiker, things didn't add up in my memory about him.
I had taken two cross country trips that year. One trip was a short visit, the other was a 3 month visit. I can't remember which of these trips I picked up this guy. I can't even remember us saying good-bye. This could be just simple memory loss from the time passed. We stopped for breakfast after our stint together. The odd thing is that we traveled in daylight, why did we stop for breakfast? I remember his pleasant smile. In the short time we traveled together we each talked alot. Maybe my memory of him stayed with me and that's why he became my later dream figure. I can't remember much about names or the specifics of what all we talked about. What I do remember is he was living in the east and going west to attend his mother's funeral somewhere in northern California.He talked about his family in California.
4.This happened about 10 years ago.  I answered a knock on my front door. Standing there was this blonde haired guy (same description as the ones mention before but I didn't notice at the time).This fella was covered from head to toe in dirt. It looked like he had made a mud mixture and covered his face with it. For about 15 or 20 minutes he carried on in a very dramatic fashion about how he had been robbed. He seemed particularily concerned about his wallet. He acted in alot of distress. He described how these guys had overtaken him and robbed him. I was sympathetic but yet a little suspicious. He wanted me to drive him somewhere.I didn't feel safe with this guy. I may have offered to call for help for him. His persistence in me taking him somewhere made me leary about him. As I recall he finally walked off in an agitated state. For about a month after that I had someone knocking at my door at about 11pm every night. I thought it may have been this guy. I asked my son if anyone in the neighborhood fit this guy's description. The only person he could come up with was a guy he said who was serving a long time in jail, and he had been in jail some time before this incident.
5. This time happened about '96. I was coming home from work and this guy jumped out into the path of my car. He had both of his hands up signalling for me to stop. I couldn't see another car on the side of the road or any other people around. I wasn't about to stop in the dark to see what this guy wanted. I swerved around him and kept going. After I got home I called the police to report this guy out on the road doing this.

All these guys seem like the same person to me now. This hadn't occured to me until I started having dreams with this same character in it.

[terrance]

Wisp, thank you for the explanation of how your phantoms precede you - it's added clarity to what you've said about the anima/animus figure in you awake life and dream life.  Out of interest do you think he's an against you or on your side?

I have to credit the essence behind the taboo idea to you - when I mentioned it I had the sense that I was treading on dangerous territory by suggesting that you hadn't doubted your experiences sufficiently - nothing to do with evil.  Although I must add that I was not suggesting that you hadn't doubted sufficiently.  I was originally trying to ask two questions in one: have you doubted your experiences to the extent I have; and could this phantom (if you doubted his existence and at the end of the doubt he still stands their waiting) have used previous, odd encounters to make himself known to you.

What credence do you give to psychology as a whole?  The reason I ask is because a lot of the terminology you choose to use seems psychology laden.  And I wonder how this sits when you look at OBE experiences individually, or all of them together even.  Do you think there's a mystery to behold outside of our current scientific understanding?  And if this mystery were revealed to you would you be inclined to try and understand it in scientific/psychological terms.  However, what you said does raise an issue - evil, certainly on the higher astral planes (according to bits I've read to date) should not exist.  But weighing this against a minority of my previous experiences 1) evil does exist on some planes or 2) the concept of evil is something I transposed onto some entities I've encountered in my OBEs.  Both are worrying - although I'd prefer it to be the latter.

What is the new book that you've got by Robert Bruce?  I'm interested in what he writes about.  Although since reading his Rope method I've had far less success with projecting (I recently experienced a two month gap with little OB activity), although I put this down to both being less in sync of late and because I over visualised the method i.e. I was picturing instead of feeling.

"Did I read you right in that you question the information in your dreams or obe experiences?"  Both.  I'll never trust in a dream experience (although this may be wrong) and I'll doubt OBEs when they're the RTZ type.  I went on holiday last year into mid england.  I arrived at a cottage I'd hired in the middle of the night.  In the early morning hours I projected into the RTZ, out of the cottage and over a hill.  There I saw a farm (illuminated by the moon) with a wooden lean-to.  In the lean-to there were two tractors.  I also remembered other specific detail.  The next day I went for a walk (we had to keep to roads because of Mad Cow's Disease) and bang! there was the farm with the exact detail.  Their was no way I could have seen this place prior to the walk because it was night time when I arrived to the cottage location and because we travelled in from the other direction.  I can't doubt this.  I can doubt anything I can't prove.  Although I have a blind faith in the experiences of projecting into the higher astral planes - it's so pure.  I'm not into blind faith too much so that's why I doubt elsewhere as best as possible.

Remote Viewing - I dislike the term.  I looked up some of the techniques a couple of years ago.  To me it's a crude form of RTZ OBE.  I don't have to meditate much (hardly any).  I just pick a 'target' and start to sense it.  The 'target' can be a place, a grid reference (although I've never tried that), a person, an event in history or the future etc. etc.  I normally wonder about aimlessly until I sense something which is usually a visual detail on my black screen.  The environment then turns sort of 3D and I try and pull off objective detail from the target.  Like I said, I use this sometimes to OBE fully.  It seems to be a good way of concentrating without having to concentrate on a fixed thought or feeling.  Oh! and as an aside, I felt comfortable with remote viewing my friend for some reason - but I feel it would be repugnant to view a person who was not willing.

"Maybe the dark side of all this is the way Jung describes the Process of Individuation in completing the integration of the personality of Self. Have you ever seen this table by Jung showing The Great Mother and The Wise Old Man?
I can type up this quick and simple graph I found in a dream book, I find it fascinating."  I tried to save you the trouble by looking for it on the web... but failed.  I'm interested to see what the fascination with this concept is.  I also look forward to hearing more about your archetype figure.

I'm intrigued with your pursuit of lucid dreaming - how do you go about doing this?  I would love to be able to fall into worlds of my own creation and... create.  I've only done this a few times... once in fact.

New Energy Ways is available on the download/resources section on this site.  I've decided to start at the beginning so as to build a solid grounding for my energy development and knowledge.  To this end I've started to download as much as possible so as to create my own library of information.  That's the reason as to why I'm also interested in what the book you've bought is.

"Terrance, are you open to saying more about your own discoveries?"  I wonder why you ask in light of what I've said to date.  But yes, of course I am.  I'm interested in other people's input.  And it helps a great deal to put into words my thoughts and feelings concerning my experiences.  That's partly why I'm on this site.  It also helps me a great deal responding to other people's experiences, thoughts, ideas etc. - although this is harder to post these responses with my limited knowledge.

t

[terrance]

Wisp - my last post is in response to your one-but-last post.
I've just glanced over your last post (thanks) and will reply tomorrow - time for bed I'm afraid

Oh, by the way, until exactly one year ago I couldn't drive... so I always used to hitchhike

Take care
t

[wisp]

Terrance, to answer your first question, I think that the blonde figure is for me.

I trust the truth of any dream. The part I don't trust is the intepretation. This is why this is my interest. Everyone has their own truth about something. Everyone has their own perceptions of things. The more you know yourself, the more you can start to unraffle your own personal mysteries.
I believe dreams, obes, lucid dreaming, or any other form it comes in is an opportunity for discovery of mysteries. But also the waking life also holds messages. Science can be important. I use psychological terms because it is the "language" I can understand, at least until a better one comes along.The words Dream Symbols I consider  a different language I want to learn. Psychological words are included in this for me right now. Freud and Jung and others were pioneers into dreams. Their ideas cannot be so easily dismissed (my opinion). The graph I will place in this post is a graph that grabbed me from the beginning when I first started having regular dream recall. I use to rarely remember dreams, so I had little material to work with. Now I have all these dreams. The Jung graph (see below) gave me a starting point in where to head in learning the nature of dreams. I have gone  beyond this one concept since then in my personal learning. I still look at this graph as a reminder or a pivet point about dream studies. I don't want to bore you too much about these little details on dreams but this particular graph helped me at first. There are many other different techniques and ways to look at and analyse dreams. There's as many ways as there are people.

From what I'm gathering about obe experiences, the things I say about dreams may not apply. Your obe experiences seems to be as real as it gets, and they(the obe realm) may be in no need of intepretation. Your experience last year seems to prove this out. This is so interesting!  This obe experience is something I hope to experience some day. In the meantime I'm going to work with what I got. I can't control my lucid dreams. I've heard that many people can. Your remote viewing sounds fascinating. Do you think your remote viewing may be the same as lucid dreaming? I would think the ultimate in lucid dreaming would be just what your already doing. Maybe I just don't understand enough about this to picture it or understand it. I too would like to get into the creative process I read and hear of others talk about in visualizations.

Response to your second paragraph:
Not including obes (because of my lack of experience with them). I look at all experiences for what they are. I don't automatically believe them, but I sure don't forget them either. I let the question of their truth or existence be known by letting them be and see what the future brings to clarifying anything in question. In other words I don't judge an experience, I just let the future reveal more to understand that experience. For instance with the blonde guy, now I have the dreams with this guy in them. I'm seeing if my dreams connect with something about these guys who I at one time saw as different people. Or, I could be wrong and the future will clarify it more for me, time will tell. I don't come to conclusions about things. I leave things open.
I also leave open the possibilty to discover someone knows more about this sort of thing than I.

You ask:
Do you think there's a mystery to behold outside of our current scientific understanding? And if this mystery were revealed to you would you be inclined to try and understand it in scientific/psychological terms.

What an interesting question! I have to say definitely YES!
I think the nature of unsolved mystery in itself has it's own way of expression. I think by evolving into more advanced ways of communication it could only change the things we know as science and psychology for the better. You can't change a concept that is working until you have an adequate replacement for it. I think science is the best we can do now. Psychology I can't say the same about, but it's better than nothing. Science has made great advances, psychology has not in my opinion. But this in part is due to problems of society.Most societies encourage negative thinking/behavior. Dependency is considered before allowing one to think/work out their own problems. Things like this keeps the wrench in the works in my opinion.

I think there are more than one kind of evil (I know very little about this http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> ) . I think this is an area worth exploring. It sounds like this is something you have hit upon though it may have not been intential.
So far I haven't read enough of Robert Bruce's book Practical Psychic Self-Defense to relay any info to you. When I do, I'll be glad to share it with you. It's probably a book you should get ahold of. It seems to be about the very thing you have been discussing at this forum.

Well, I hope I answered your questions.  I enjoy the information your sharing. I find it kinda hard to express some things too, but I like getting other opinions and it's worth the effort to try to express my ideas. Plus, the communication helps improve my writing skills.

That's some synchrony (coincidense?) that you were a hitch-hiker yourself!http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>  

I'm not sure how this table is suppose to work. I just like identifying the characters. It gives me something to think about.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> Sorry, I did a terrible job on constructing this graph. Left is the female aspect, right is the male aspect.

The Great Mother                                             The Wise Old Man

Intellect                                                              
  Amazon(positive)                                               Hero (positive)
 Huntress(negative)                                             Villain (negative)

Intuition                                                            
   Priestess(positive)                                             Joker (positive)
  Evil Witch(negative)                                             Black Magician(negative)

Emotion                                                                
   Princess(positive)                                               Youth (positive)
 Seductress(negative)                                            Tramp (negative)

Sensation                                                          
      Mother(positive)                                                 Father (positive)
   Terrible Mother(negative)                                     Ogre (negative)

[terrance]

Hello Wisp - been out of action the last few days!

Just want to touch on a couple of our points further up this thread first of all:
"I wonder about the entity you saw near your friend.  It's interesting you mentioned it didn't seem bad. This is what I've been wondering about the dark unseen side. Is it possible some of us have dark world figures as guardians just as some have angels of light? Don't get me wrong, I'm not into that sort of thing in my waking life at all. It just seems with my life experiences and all, I seem to understand a lot about the "dark side" information I've been learning about the last few years."  The more I read and understand the more I think their are two types of evil that we inevitably encounter.  The first are evil/bad entities (possibly including other humans) such as negs.  The other type are the bad/evil aspects of one's own character.  I was a two sheets to the wind last night.  I put some music on, turned off the light star-shaped on the floor with my eyes closed.  Within seconds I was flying through the black space (with stars) that I always seem to stumble into.  I've been practising with changing direction and speed - and also my viewpoint i.e. looking behind my direction of travel.  Suddenly moving visions of something quite troubling began to appear.  Each time I willed one to go another would fall into my vision.  I tackled this calmly and just said to myself that these things would simply not trouble me any more.  I believed in myself that this was to be the case and I even willed other visions to come and have a go.  With this they all faded and a bearded man's head set in a square frame drifted up to me, said something (his lips moved but I couldn't hear) and then he drifted off back in the direction he came.  Very strange.  I see this as jumping a hurdle and reinforces the possibility that to evolve spiritually we have to tackle evil outside and inside.

Do you think your remote viewing may be the same as lucid dreaming?
My understanding is that they are totally different.  With lucid dreaming you are normally asleep and then some trigger causes you to become conscious in your dream.  The area you are in is a world of your own making and one in which (with luck) you have complete control over.  The experience also seems to be very visual - you're can see detail clearly.  With remote viewing you are aware from the moment you begin.  You don't have to be in a deep meditative state.  The images and sensations are more vague.  This does not appear to be a world of your own making.

"...I sure don't forget them either. I let the question of their truth or existence be known by letting them be and see what the future brings to clarifying anything in question. In other words I don't judge an experience, I just let the future reveal more to understand that experience... I don't come to conclusions about things. I leave things open."  This is cool.  I think we can all over analyse things, why not indeed say "hey, that was weird, I'll let my future self have a crack at it once I'm in a position to properly understand!"

"I think there are more than one kind of evil (I know very little about this  ) . I think this is an area worth exploring. It sounds like this is something you have hit upon though it may have not been intential.
So far I haven't read enough of Robert Bruce's book Practical Psychic Self-Defense to relay any info to you. When I do, I'll be glad to share it with you. It's probably a book you should get ahold of. It seems to be about the very thing you have been discussing at this forum."  I will buy this book, thanks for bringing it to my attention - I would be glad to read any poignant information you find in it.

I read over your blonde hair phantom experience but still haven't thought about it.  I'll give it another read and post what I think - thanks for writing this down.

The Great Mother The Wise Old Man diagram is interesting and would seem to be a good starting point for helping people to perhaps understand some of the symbols/figures that meet in their dreaming life.

Have a happy new year.
t

[wisp]

Hi Terrance,
I wonder too about what you said here.

quote:The more I read and understand the more I think their are two types of evil that we inevitably encounter. The first are evil/bad entities (possibly including other humans) such as negs. The other type are the bad/evil aspects of one's own character. I was a two sheets to the wind last night

What do you mean by two sheets to the wind? Your experience does sound strange!  Personally I've never had anything happen if I'm listening to music.
I have not had many bad experiences.

What I discribe as my lucid dreaming  I'm aware from the get go. So, maybe I'm doing something else, such as remote viewing? As to what you describe as a lucid dream I've never had awareness come on after I've fallen asleep.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> Yeh, I like the sound of letting your future self take on the interpreting or understanding of something.

Just curious Terrance, do you journal your experiences?  I do my dreams but find the other things hard to keep track or define well enough to journal.

Since I wrote last, I'm afraid I haven't made much progress reading Practical Pyschic Self-Defense. I hope to dig into the book more in the next few days.

Yes, the Great Mother & Wise Old Man diagram is a good baseline to start to understand dream characters. Before I started regular dream recall just a little over two years ago, I was clueless about dreams and the subconscious. My learning and understanding  has increased alot. This in turn has brought a whole new concept and understanding of intuition or perceptions. I'm still have alot to learn. The one concept I find the hardest to grasp is the archetype.  What does this word mean?

[terrance]

Hello Wisp

Quote:
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The more I read and understand the more I think their are two types of evil that we inevitably encounter. The first are evil/bad entities (possibly including other humans) such as negs. The other type are the bad/evil aspects of one's own character. I was a two sheets to the wind last night
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two sheets to the wind - I was drunk on beer/bitter, a truly English condition to be in during the Festive period!:)
I suppose "evil" might be too strong an expression.  At the time I was probably too drunk to really notice the music much, but as I was meditating I just got bombarded by odd images that to a certian degree were troubling.

So this got me to thinking that there must be barriers that we errect ourselves which prevent us from progressing spirtually and progessing with our adventures with OBEs.  And these barriers probably manifest in all manner of ways, both in the physical and non-physical.

The experience wasn't bad or scary really, just a little annoying.  But it has made me consider once again (and more seriously) one's way of life (I posted something to this effect on OBE Discussions).  It's maybe similar to our discussion about syncrony, in that the ideal would seem to be a condition of oneness.  In the example I gave on this other post I mentioned that I have a bad attitude towards some people at my work - and that's the first step for me.  It's my attitude , not their characters and actions that I need to attend to.  But the question is 'where to start'?

"What I discribe as my lucid dreaming I'm aware from the get go. So, maybe I'm doing something else, such as remote viewing? As to what you describe as a lucid dream I've never had awareness come on after I've fallen asleep."  
I'm not sure what you mean here.  Here's how I see the two.  Which is it that you have experiences with?  Or is it a blend of some sort?

Remote Viewing:
I lay down. close my eyes and relax.  I might meditate to bring myself down a little more (but not necessary).  I then pick a target or just let myself wonder about black space until I find something.  When I find something the following might happen:
(I see what looks like a tower so I say to myself ) "Possibly a tower - Zoom in slowly"
(I see what look like bricks) "Zoom out slowly - stop"
(I see the tower but closer that the first time) "Rotate around"
(As I rotate I see a dark patch) "Stop and move in slow"
(It's foggy but it could be a window) "Stop and focus"
And so on.  Sometimes I'll get very little and it will all stay foggy.  Other times the images and feelings will become very realistic (colours and emotion).  And other times the whole process will lead me to the star like tunnel and I might have a good OBE.

Lucid Dreaming:
I said previosly that I had only ever had one of these but I can think of at least three now.  An example - I was having a dream and wondering around a college.  As i went through a door I noticed my hand as I pushed at a door.  I was then lucid for a short time and able to roam about at my will (flying etc).  This did not have the feel of a proper AP and it was not remote viewing.  I would imagine that Lucid Dreaming is possible from a conscious state.  And I'm pretty sure that we can have experiences that are a blend of AP, Remote Viewing, RTZ viewing and Lucid Dreaming - which is troublesom for creatures that like to classify as we do.

"Just curious Terrance, do you journal your experiences? I do my dreams but find the other things hard to keep track or define well enough to journal."

I did do to begin with but haven't over the last year or two!!!  So I think I must start again.  What are these other things you find hard to journal.  It might be worth noting anything - maybe a future Wisp could find understanding.

"Since I wrote last, I'm afraid I haven't made much progress reading Practical Pyschic Self-Defense. I hope to dig into the book more in the next few days."
Trembling in antisapation:) although I must buy the book myself.

Oh! and I have no ideal what an archetype means in psychological terms - thought it meant just a symbol and happens again and again.

[wisp]

Terrance,
Thanks for the explanation of two sheets to the wind. Beer I'm familiar, but what is bitter? Sorry to sound so dense. Funny, I've heard the expression 3 sheets to the wind and thought it to be alcohol related. I thought 2 sheets may be something else. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>  Wonder where this expression  comes from, hehe.

Well, started a little on R. Bruce's book. And yes, it is very good so far. I have to go visiting out of town this week-end so I'll take it along. I don't want to comment yet on what I've already read.

I agree, the use of the word evil can be over played sometime. But there is such a thing. I've been reading about the word ignorance associated with evil, hmmm...something to think about. That certainly fits some of my co-workers I generally have difficulty with. It's interesting that your pondering the "work place" dilemmas as well.

Barriors manifesting in the physical and non physical? I study dreams. From what I've learned, barriors are probably the main factor in most things. But they can also be sign posts as well. Not all bad really. This is a very interesting subject.

quote: In the example I gave on this other post I mentioned that I have a bad attitude towards some people at my work - and that's the first step for me. It's my attitude , not their characters and actions that I need to attend to. But the question is 'where to start'?

Where in the forum did you talk about this subject? I'll read more about what your saying about this.

In the meantime- my opinion

Start by designing your ideal circumstance with these people. With me, it would be not being around them, haha.
So far it's helped me, I work as little as I can. Then when I do have to be around them I'm more tolerant of them. And them seeing me less, I'm more of a new or changing presence. In other words they appreciate me more. I don't mean to meddle but this is my opinion about co-workers.
To me this is the beginning of having control of your environment. The less the better on the things you have limited control.

I really like how you descibe remote viewing. Thanks, I get the picture. Very cool! I must say, I've never done that. Maybe someday I will. I get the visuals and sometimes sound. I have had dreams that I've done this maneuvering around.I know this just from dream recall (after the fact).

I guess I must still work on my own definition of lucid dreaming. I'm still unclear by your definition of this too.
I lucid dream(what I call it) by seeing a movie run, seeing visuals and sounds, and a few times me running around out of the body,flashes of pictures or experiences, but then I snap out of it before actually falling asleep.

From past experience I've tried to journal my experiences(outside of dreams, lucid and otherwise). I have found the journal becomes interactive in my attempts. I suspect it may be related to the synchrony on my life. Anyway, I find my journal gets tampered with by my subconscious. And another thing, I found as I was writing in it (journal) that things manifested as I wrote. For instance writing in it about something would bring about a continuence of it in the presence. Very confusing and hard to explain.My last time I tried it, I was writing about a friend of mine. Well, the phone rings and it is this same person. She spoke of circumstances that made me leave the journal and interact with her and her present circumstances. So, it boils down to either living the experience or writing about it. I can't seem to do both. Does that make sense?  So basically what I do is just journal in my dream journal. If something happens outside of my dreams (waking life) I just place it in with my dream journal. I cannot separate the two experiences.

I'm being very careful with what I accept as a so called archetype. Thanks for your idea. The reason being is that several years ago I had a powerful vision. In this vision is what I suspect was a representation of an archetype.So I try to keep a clear head about the definition of this until I can figure out the vision I had. I hope that makes sense.

Well, better run, must begin my week-end trip sometime. My mother has been expecting a visit for some time now.

[terrance]

Well yes, 2 sheets just means not as bad as 3 sheets, err... honest.  Bitter is like normal beer but darker and usually flat.

"It's interesting that your pondering the "work place" dilemmas as well."  I was pondering the work place for a while... but decisions have been made and my resignation goes in tomorrow.  A maxim I've held true to the last two years (almost to the date funny enough) is: change or remove anything in your life that's no good.  I'm in a dizzy state of euphoric relief as I write

"Where in the forum did you talk about this subject? I'll read more about what your saying about this."  I think it's in OBE discussions - I'll find the post, although from memory I have not gone into much more depth that I have here... I'll check.

"I lucid dream(what I call it) by seeing a movie run, seeing visuals and sounds, and a few times me running around out of the body,flashes of pictures or experiences, but then I snap out of it before actually falling asleep."  Yeah, I don't think my definition was that clear as I'm not %100 myself.  Do you have any control over what you've mentioned above?  If you do then it does seem similar to RV - only more advanced.

Just out of interest, what do you suspect an Archetype to be - I'm a little uncertain as to what you mean.

Regards

[terrance]

The post you asked for is at Welcome to OBE discussions, I'm back

You might also be interested to look at Welcome to OBE discussions, Technical Remote Viewing.

ttfn

[wisp]

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> well, I guess 2 sheets would make you better than most then. uh huh, yeh...yeh...that's right. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>

Actually, my work place problems have been improving lately. I've been trying different things to change the way I see my reality. It's working but I'm a slow learner. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>
Wow, I know the feeling of leaving a place you dislike. The place I'm at now I've been there awhile. I'm in the habit of this place now. At the present no horrible creatures are there to make me want to quit. But, if that happens, that will be my cue to get outta there!

I'll go to those other places and read them, thanks.

quote: "I lucid dream(what I call it) by seeing a movie run, seeing visuals and sounds, and a few times me running around out of the body,flashes of pictures or experiences, but then I snap out of it before actually falling asleep." Yeah, I don't think my definition was that clear as I'm not %100 myself. Do you have any control over what you've mentioned above?

I have to say no to this question. However, by observing my subconscious actions in my regular dreams, I do have some unconscious or subconscious control in some things.  In fact, in learning and observing my dreams I'm finding out this hidden part of me has many abilities.

Arc means a point of meeting, it also means part of a circle, or curved line. I saw this represented in my vision.. Archetype is a man made term. There are various definitions of this word. I'm thinking archetype in the dream sense (to me anyway) may mean one central idea, but maybe two. I think it's an important thing to define for oneself.  I'll think more on this and talk more on this subject later.

[kakkarot]

wow, terrance, that experience in your first post was really something. sounds like you somehow ended up in a mage's personal library.

luckily, he didn't hurt you in any way. just gave you a warning sign to not do it again    .

i've got a few questions, if you wouldn't mind answering them.

1. did the place feel like it was something physical, like an physical building of some sort, or did it feel like it might have been maintained on the astral, or in some other 'surreal' place?

2. did the place feel like it was in our time, or like it was from the past? this might explain the OLD feeling it had.

3. do you remember anything at all from the book? even a little scrap of information? i'd love to find out why the dark figure that followed you back swore at you rather than really threatening you. it seems more like the person was trying to tell you that you did something that you weren't supposed to, rather than being upset that you read the book.

4. did it seem, during the oobe, that you were "posessing" someone else who was the one trying to sneak into the place, and you were kindof being taken along for the ride?

5. and finally, did the thing that followed you back seem like it was the same person as the one you were hiding from at the beginning of it?

that is certainly an interesting story, and i would love to be able to find that person's library myself, if i ever developed the ability to project. especially to talk to the person. thanks.

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[terrance]

"1. did the place feel like it was something physical, like an physical building of some sort, or did it feel like it might have been maintained on the astral, or in some other 'surreal' place?"

1) The place was solid and well established.  I felt that I'd been lucky and determined to have got to this place because I knew I was in danger and shouldn't really be there when I became fully aware.  Instinct tells me that the library was maintained in the astral... no that's not right.  I didn't have a sense of 'maintained'.  I had a feeling that this place was here to stay - beyond maintaining if you like.  It certainly felt as if it were indeed in the astral however.

"2. did the place feel like it was in our time, or like it was from the past? this might explain the OLD feeling it had."

2)  The place was old.  It had been built an age ago.  Yet it was functional.  It didn't feel like the past (if you're asking was I projecting into the past) but in the now.  But this is a gut feeling - I'm not sure I would have been able to determine a difference here.

"3. do you remember anything at all from the book? even a little scrap of information? i'd love to find out why the dark figure that followed you back swore at you rather than really threatening you. it seems more like the person was trying to tell you that you did something that you weren't supposed to, rather than being upset that you read the book."

3)  Whenever I think back on the experience I often get pictures of what was seen on some of the pages.  It was in a different language.  The language seemed to use symbols - like the aztecs I suppose but more flowery, flowing like a more advanced writing system.  I feel the experience was threatening enough - I think it just wanted to frighten me so much that I wouldn't (and couldn't) think: wow that was great, lets try and go have another look.  I'm not sure on how to comment on your last sentence here.

"4. did it seem, during the oobe, that you were "posessing" someone else who was the one trying to sneak into the place, and you were kindof being taken along for the ride?"

4) No.  I felt like me - I had control.  Although there was a strong impulse to sneak though the door.  There was less of an impulse to go to the book - I think I was just drawn to it because it was in the middle of the room on a table/stand.

"5. and finally, did the thing that followed you back seem like it was the same person as the one you were hiding from at the beginning of it?"

5) No.  The thing/person that followed me back seemed stronger... again this is more a gut feeling

"that is certainly an interesting story, and i would love to be able to find that person's library myself, if i ever developed the ability to project. especially to talk to the person. thanks."

You are insane - get help.
Just kidding.  For me it would be good to confront this thing/person again... yet I'm in no rush to do it just yet:)  I'm curious as to why you would want to go to this place and meet these people/things?  Would you be putting yourself in harms way by doing so?

What you said about it sounding as if I'd ended up in mage's personal library really brings back an impression I had right after the event - that this was a person.  I had the distinct impression that this was another human being projecting to me.  Perhaps you can expand on your definition of a mage for me!

[kakkarot]

SWEET!!! thanks for your replies. []

first off, i'd like to say, trust your gut. in a world where the spirit is in control rather than the physical body, you have different senses, and your 'gut' is one of them.

i get what you mean by it just 'being' in the astral, not being maintained. and i also get what you mean with the 'it was not in the past' idea.

yeah, i was kinda being not understandable with "it seems more like the person was trying to tell you that you did something that you weren't supposed to, rather than being upset that you read the book." what i meant was, from the way you told it, it kinda sounds like the thing that came back with you wasn't threatening you because you invaded it's master's (or it's own) personal area and 'stolen' something, but rather like you have done something accidentally by reading the book. something that was completely seperate from your experience (like accidentally releasing a demon or something), and that it was mad at you for doing that. does this explain it better?

i'm still kinda wondering though, as to whether the thing that followed you back was a created 'being' (like an astral construct), was astral muscle for the real owner of the book, or was the real owner of the book (which would mean the first person you were hiding from would be a bit inconsequential to your overall experience).

"I'm curious as to why you would want to go to this place and meet these people/things? Would you be putting yourself in harms way by doing so?" well, maybe i am insane   . i have always loved the idea of adventure, especially into potentially dangerous situations. sure i might get hurt, but it's not like any innocent people could get caught in the midst. and besides, i've resolved myself to the fact that i could die at any time, and i believe that i will most likely go to heaven (or another good place if i am mistaken and heaven doesn't exist) when i die. so i really don't have anything to fear except the pain. which i'm sure i can take. hopefully   . of course i do have a few things that i might have to do before i should go taking on adventures like that, but whatever. what's the worst that could happen?  [B)]?  []

as for my definition of a mage, well it's kinda not concrete, but it's something like "someone who uses the energy of magic." i guess it should really be something more loose since my personal definition of the magic energy type isn't based on any sort of common experience or knowledge with other humans. but whatever, a powerful mage is someone who uses powerful energy, just like anyone else who uses a powerful energy, and so the differences are really only in how they use their power and how they go about gaining more.

~kakkarot

[wisp]

Some interesting stuff. Personally I don't think there are any off limit areas. Maybe the feeling of not suppose to be there are  limits placed by collective conscious (just a thought). Fear for a awhile effected you in the physical but it didn't stay. Kakkarot's statement is true for me too. I feel my future is guaranteed.I never thought of any pain being part of it! No way! []

Anyway, to finish about the archetype idea.I read this little phamphlet once that talked about this very subject. If I can get hold of it again I'll write what it said. The crux of it was what seemed like a brain washing technique(or so it seemed at the time). It pretty much took basic concepts such as religion and made it appear to be nil and void. It left a blank page as if someone could choose(?).
This leads me to wonder where is the center of our thought center? Mine seems to come from the third eye. Visually I see an opening from this third eye point to an open channel leading from here to the top of the head to then the astral. To open this area the archetype symbol must be released from this area and this then opens the astral channel. This exit point recently was covered by ice on the outside but the ice cracked and the opening is there again. I wonder what the ice layer represents because it hadn't been there except for this one time?
So, is it possible an archetype may be an image or a guide that leads the way?  Is anyone else familiar with this channel to the astral? Or am I sounding strange?

In my vision there is the universe. There is also this power present. This power has a sucking or pulling power going somewhere. The path has a curve to it and has some ancester link maybe. Could this circular power path be just part and there is more yet to discover? Is the power path one or is there more?  No answer necessary here but this is the questions I'm trying to figure out or understand. I had this vision through regression brought about by a power outside of myself(by spirit(s)).

I just read Adrian post on the mental plane. I find it interesting and so accurate. I'm just beginning the study about those levels.