Late Night Experience

[Ambitious]

Hello everyone, I'm new here and glad that I've found such a resourceful forum, I plan on staying as active as possible.

A little background/introduction before my real post:

I'm 17 years old with a hunger for knowledge and control over my own self. I began using computers at around the age of 4 and was big into video games, a few years ago I started weening off of the addicting games and found myself coming back into reality. There's a history of ADD in my family and in 10th grade I was taken to the doctor and prescribed Vyvanse (an ADD medicine). There weren't really any tests I had to go through so it's not 100% that I have anything, since ADD is kind of hard to prove, but I've always had an attention problem (not hyperactivity). The thing is, I've embraced what people call a problem. I'm involved with a lot of activities and enjoy interacting with people. I joined the debate team at my school in 9th grade and 9/10 times I have no confidence problems whatsoever in talking to people. My thirst for knowledge probably came from the Internet, sometimes I just read and read and read for absolutely no reason at all except to form connections. Lately I've realized the power of the mind to its true extent after reading about Astral Projecting in-depth and doing research (like always, the thirst for knowledge) on the subject. I hope to push my limits from this day forth and to encourage love and positivity around the world.

Onto the real post:

The reason I talked about the ADD medicine is because one day I took it pretty late in the day, around 1pm. It's a stimulant and a long-term one at that, Vyvanse is made to last 12-14 hours while other medicines may only reach 8. I had studying to do for final exams and around 2-3am (I think) I headed to bed. My thoughts keep going and going, especially when I lay my head down at night, so sleep usually takes me a good while.

After a couple of minutes, something strange and fascinating happened. I was laying on my back with my head tilted to the left on my pillow and began to visualize what I would call fractals. There were all kinds of different colors, my brain interpreted them as mostly normal colors that I would see, but it did seem like I was seeing colors I've never seen before and things were much more vivid from reality. Basically I kept moving through them, it took a decent amount of concentration in my head to keep the continuous movement going. I would see many variations and of shapes that are even more intricate than the fractals you see in pictures on the Internet. It felt like a tunnel that I was going forward through, but it wasn't always forward. I would twist and turn left and right mostly, twisting up and down and every second I would see a whole new setting (different fractals). I had to have been in at least 30-100 different "fractal scenes" as I would call it before it ended. I think that I started losing concentration and opened my eyes, can't remember because it was a good while ago and my memory isn't fresh.

So overall what I can say is that I do not believe I was asleep. It was a conscious thing where I know I could have chosen to move my body around at anytime, but with all the visions in my mind with my eyes closed, why would I? The reason behind me not sleeping is most definitely because of the ADD medicine. My eyes were twitching the entire time, just like I've experienced when trying to sleep on the medicine before, but this time it wasn't painful it was just quick movements. My theory is that somehow I achieved REM sleep or something along those lines while still conscious. Other details: I was fairly sleep deprived for a couple of weeks before and especially that night due to exam studying and trying to pass classes. Another part: I was sick a few days before that and I still had a sore throat and a headache that night. I also had just put my retainers that I did not wear for days (painful) that night, and those were causing a constant pain sensation in my mouth. So I had 3 areas of pain: head, throat, teeth/mouth. The headache and the throat were not really large sensations, but the sensation caused by the retainers was like a pain/pleasure thing where I just embraced the pain as good and it did not hurt me.

I'm wondering if anyone can give me any feedback on this whole entire thing, I know it's a lot but I'm new to this.

Questions:
-What are ADD medicine's effect on Astral Projections/OBD/Lucid dreaming?
-Can you lucid dream or project while on ADD medicine?
-What were the fractals I was seeing?
-Do you think that the pain like sensation, especially in my mouth, had an effect on why I saw those things?

Also if you feel like reading (it's long): I've lucid dreamed once before on accident. I was out on my front lawn during a sunny day, looked up and saw a Delta Airplane parked above my house. I tried flying (I had heard of people attempting to jump and fly) but it didn't work. I walked over to a next-door neighbors house (also my best friend), even went inside where for some random butt reason they had a buffet going and saw my best friend's dad who had the same shape and features, except that his face was completely missing or distorted in a way. I walked back out, then as a 15 year old who was just introduced to smoking trees, I had the brilliant idea to go try to see how that would effect my dream if I smoked in it. I crossed the street and imagined my buddies house (the man with the tree) and somehow just crossing the street brought me to his house's street (we're like 20 miles apart at least). I got some from him, then had the stupid idea of tying my shoe which I thought was untied, and I think I probably wasted hours of reality doing that and then woke up.

[ChopstickFox]

Welcome!

Once you mentioned that the medicine was a stimulant, I had an idea. It's one I've been trying to experiment with, but some people have had success with. If you're physically really tired and then you have some sort of stimulant such as caffeine, you can potentially get the mind awake body asleep without really needing to try. It's possible your body fell asleep and your mind was still awake. Caffeine has never affected me, so I always doze right off @_@ but hey, it's an interesting idea, at least!

Seeing those fractals of color are a good sign. There are a lot of awesome sources on here that give strategies of how to take it a step further and go oob. The key is to notice what's going on without really thinking about it. It is keeping your mind aware while allowing itself to technically call asleep. I don't think that pain can really influence success or not... It's more just in simplified terms staying conscious while your body falls asleep.

Neat lucid dream there Good luck on your experiences and journeys!

[Ambitious]

Appreciate the great feedback pal. I had the same idea as well, that my mind was conscious because it was stimulated + because of the pain in my head, but my body was so worn out that it had to sleep.

Thanks for the advice, I'd love to hear more from you. If you have anything else to offer be sure to share.

[Bedeekin]

For someone who has been diagnosed (or probably misdiagnosed) with an attention disorder.. .your post is well organised and very concise.

Just a little observation there.

I have been interested in what medicines or drugs effect OOBEs. I have had long dialogues with a few doctors and friends who range from a nutritionist to a neurologist. I have also had contact with Rick Strassman (of DMT fame)... and Daniel Siebert who is a pioneer of Salvinorin A... the active entheogenic ingredient of Salvia Divinorum.

I do know that Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors like Seroxat, sertraline and Dextromethorphan or Robitussin don't help with nonphysical exploration for some reason. This may be connected to the production of Melatonin... the precursor to the endogenous production of Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) within the Pineal Gland - which is still debatable. Either way... Seratonin not being reabsorbed (or reuptaken) could lead to lack of introspect; a requirement of meditation.

As to Amfetamine, which is essentially what Vyvanse is but with added Lysene to aid in a slow release, I doubt would have any hormonal effects on your body. Which is good. It would however keep you mentally aware. Like Chopstick Fox mentioned the use of caffeine (or Guarana) can be used as a mental stimulant without body stimulation allowing for a mind awake body asleep situation.

I do however turn people away from any drug aid for OOBEs... not because they are bad but because it is always beneficial to learn it without a crutch. It is hard to get out of the belief built up that you need an aid in the first place. The same can be said for Binaural beats or whale music... they just aren't essential.

But you cant escape your medication... unless you take a leap of your own 'faith' in yourself and just stop them to see what happens. I have got a few people to do this. Not wise on my part... I know... but on the occasions I have, the person has ceased medication and experienced the Nonphysical.

So...

-What are ADD medicine's effect on Astral Projections/OBD/Lucid dreaming?

Minimal in my experience. I imagine you dream anyway is this right? Maybe you get some quite mental dreams. You have experienced a Lucid dream... was this before or since the Vyvanse?

-Can you lucid dream or project while on ADD medicine?

Yes. Although the same can't be said for other drugs such as SRI's, alcohol and/or cannabis.

-What were the fractals I was seeing?

They may have been endogenous (natural internally manufactured) DMT. It sounds consistent with the patterns experienced during a DMT trip and similar to the fractals that I experience when coming out of an OOBE.

-Do you think that the pain like sensation, especially in my mouth, had an effect on why I saw those things?

Probably not. I can't be sure though. Maybe they were slightly inhibiting your ability to focus or get properly relaxed. I don't think they were directly influencing your experience.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
lots of medicines effect the workings of the mind. Vyvanse is one with such an effect. The list of others is irrelevant here.
The sleep problems are basically your mind can't shut off easily and this enables the patient to get further into the sleep cycle without becoming unconscious.
This enables a better chance of experiences outside of the normal physical sleep pattern.
To get into a Non Physical Reality (NPR) this side effect can be helpful. However as most drugs that effect the mind in this way also appear to lock the patient into an uncontrolled experience the misuse for this purpose isn't recommended.
Your experience of the fractal 'environment' is typical an example. The fact you had some control is a good thing.
In the NPR your thoughts create what happens around you. If you are scared of something, the chances of this something appearing are very high.
If you're enjoying the experience then think of something this too can manifest.
If this experience is a common occurrence, keep nice and pleasant thoughts flowing. Lack of control could give things a twist. Its better to know a pleasant thought than fear.
You seem to have a clever mindset set on learning which is usually that of a good willed person. With your problem this hopefully is winning through.
To experience an NPR there's quite a lot to learn. The medicine should be used earlier in the day so you get a better chance of controlling your experiences. Its a long path for most and can't be rushed.
Its also a natural process and you need to let it happen by itself.
Your work is staying aware and concious while your body falls asleep. At some point you'll get to a place where you have to let go of the physical sensations you're used to and totally relax.
Hopeing you've read enough to understand this.
Best of luck in your endeavours.

[Ambitious]

@Bedeekin - The lucid dream was I believe before the Vyvanse. It was just a random occurrence in one dream that took place and then never happened again.

I've never kept a dream journal, so that's my first step. Right now I'm on a 2 week long break from school so I plan on taking this time to improve on a few things health-wise, meditate more frequently, and to stay positive in general.

I still haven't taken the plunge and actually sat down and consciously wanted to have an OBE yet, but I think it's time to give it a shot very soon.

Any other tips you can give me? I realize that you need to be conscious mentally while your body is falling asleep, are there any methods that you personally use to achieve this? Also, should I still be thinking during this time or should I attempt to silence my mind? It seems like it would be hard to go silent while still maintaining consciousness.

I appreciate the wise advice from you both and the abundance of information provided. Thank you very much.