Meeting a Deceased Friend

[Selski]

Last week, I had a very interesting lucid dream where I met someone that I knew from way back in my past, and who committed suicide about 5 years ago.

Just to point out that my beliefs with regard to those who commit suicide are somewhat vague, but so far I'm of the opinion that there isn't a stigma attached to suicide - it's simply another choice we can make on our spiritual path. This experience has caused me to question that belief.

I've changed the name of my friend, and the names he gave me.

He's not someone I think about much, and he certainly hadn't been on my mind beforehand.

Here is the experience:

I was now on a street somewhere. The dream was to my right, but very vague. I was incredibly lucid, and start walking the opposite way to the dream, turning my back on the dream and changing focus to F3 (Frank's model). The street was fairly ordinary, but the clarity was breathtaking. It was so sparkly and clear, the sun shone and everything was as if it had just been washed, including the houses, people, sky, trees etc.

I placed intent that "someone" (anyone) was to come along to talk to (it was quite empty at this point).

I noticed a man on the other side of the street walking towards me slowly. As he came closer, I realised it was Jack. His appearance was out of character with the rest of what I could see, in that he was slightly unshaven and wore dark clothes. He was looking around a little shifty.

He walked up to me and I said, "Jack!" and gave him a big hug. He looked at me and said, "Whatever you do, don't go down the same road that I did, will you? Just don't do it." (He was talking about committing suicide.)

I told him I wouldn't. I grabbed hold of his hand and we walked along together. I asked him if he lived here. He kept looking around, part interested in the place and part scared, as if he wasn't supposed to be there. He nervously chuckled and said to me, "No, I don't live in a place like this! But don't worry about me – I'm at the peak of where I ought to be and it's OK."

While he was saying this, I understood on an intuitive level that Jack was in a place not quite as nice as this one and 'his' place was where he was supposed to be, given the fact that he had committed suicide. It wasn't an awful place, but somewhere that he was continuing to learn, until such a time that he could then move to where we were.

As we walked and talked, a cart went past with two naked young women in. We both saw this. I wondered what it was about. The girls were happy, oblivious to their nakedness.

Jack told me he was worried about Sue. I got confused here because I don't know a Sue, and I mixed her up with someone else.

Then he told me he was also concerned about Jane. Again, I don't know a Jane, and I told him so, to which he told me she was someone from his past and that the grandparents knew who Jane was.

Again, while he was telling me this, I picked up intuitively that Jane was a baby that had died when young.  

[I assume these "intuitive thoughts" you get are Monroe's "rotes".]

I wondered whether Jack had fathered a child when he was very young and it had died. The whole thing had been covered up, but the grandparents knew.

And then I suddenly and abruptly woke up.

The whole experience was a typical top quality lucid dream one. The "reality" of it was astounding, and I awoke quite amazed. And convinced I'd just spent some quality time with Jack.

I'm hoping to find out about the names he gave me and whether they mean anything.

The other thing that I find interesting is that I didn't go to where Jack lives - he came to me. I wonder why?

Sarah

[El-Bortukali]

awesome experience!

[CFTraveler]

Fascinating!

[PatternsComingToLife]

Sarah:

Thank you for sharing.

Perhaps your friend came to you to because you needed to re-examine how you view suicide. You answered your own question in this case. Maybe it DOES matter and it's not a quick "cop out" as you may have thought previously.

Interesting.

-Rob

[El-Bortukali]

I honestly don't see what's so bad with suicide.
It's a personal choice.

[Selski]

Rob - I thought this too.  I think that at any time in the future if I even so much as slightly wonder about suicide, this experience (and more importantly his first words to me) will come back to remind me.

Runlola - Perhaps he wants me to find the two people he mentioned.  I got the impression they were no longer physical, so maybe rather than me trying to get verification as to who they were, I ought to be searching for them in the non-physical environment.  Hmmm.  I hadn't thought of that until you mentioned it, so thanks.    

Sarah

[Novice]

Interesting experience indeed.

Sarah, the intuitive flashes you mention I experience quite a bit. While I'm not intimately familiar with Monroe's work, I can tell you from my experience that when I'm in the astral, at least half, and sometimes more, of my 'knowledge' comes from what I call data downloads. Its as if someone just puts a piece of information directly into your mind, all at once. You simply 'know' things that you really shouldn't know or weren't told or haven't seen. To me this is typical of communication in that realm, but this is purely how I experience it. Not sure if others have different experiences.

Also, with respect to suicide as a choice, I don't get the sense of this experience pointing in either a 'right or wrong' direction. I think Jack came to you because you placed intent to talk to someone. And perhaps he, on some level, wanted to talk to someone he knew as well. As for his appearance and not existing in a very nice place, I think this all goes back to beliefs. And, of course, this is my own belief   , but I think we decide where we go. So while Sarah may not view suicide as right or wrong, if Jack did, then what he experiences now is what he feels is 'right' for the choice he made. But again, that's just my opinion.

[Selski]

Hi Novice

Its as if someone just puts a piece of information directly into your mind, all at once. You simply 'know' things that you really shouldn't know or weren't told or haven't seen. To me this is typical of communication in that realm, but this is purely how I experience it. Not sure if others have different experiences.

Yes, it's very typical with my experiences too.  The sureness of the knowing is what gets me - the information passed on I take as absolute fact without questioning it.  I guess it's two-way in that they pick up all sorts of interesting facts about us while we communicate.

Also, with respect to suicide as a choice, I don't get the sense of this experience pointing in either a 'right or wrong' direction. I think Jack came to you because you placed intent to talk to someone. And perhaps he, on some level, wanted to talk to someone he knew as well. As for his appearance and not existing in a very nice place, I think this all goes back to beliefs. And, of course, this is my own belief   , but I think we decide where we go. So while Sarah may not view suicide as right or wrong, if Jack did, then what he experiences now is what he feels is 'right' for the choice he made. But again, that's just my opinion.

That's an interesting assessment and one I hadn't thought about.  I too didn't particularly get a 'right or wrong' from it, but I was deeply concerned when he told me he didn't live there.  I guess it was because it was not what I was expecting him to say.  Of course if Jack thought suicide was "wrong" on some level, then yes, that would make total sense.  Thanks for bringing your views into the discussion.  

Sarah

[Leilah]

Selski, you no longer believe suicide is an "appropriate" thing to do? OR...

[warn81]

I tried calling someone famous who passed over, while in a lucid dream...it was a nice experience...I shook his hand too. He didn't say anything...just smiled.

[Selski]

Selski, you no longer believe suicide is an "appropriate" thing to do? OR...

Hi Leilah

I'm not sure now.  I know that because it was someone I knew, and because he told me not to "go down the same road", that will most definitely remain in my mind, therefore I don't think suicide will ever be an option for me personally, after having this experience.

However, Novice did bring up a good point, being that it may be that Jack thought suicide was in some way "inappropriate" and therefore based on his beliefs (and not mine), he doesn't feel 'worthy' to be in a place quite as nice as the one where we met.

I used to sit on the fence regarding suicide, then only in the last 6 months or so, I began accepting the belief that there is no stigma attached to it - it is just a personal choice amongst many that we make.  

Now I'm back on the fence    

What are your views?

Sarah

[James S]

When you mentioned Jack not feeling worthy to be where he was, I feel  some of the emotional issues he had has carried over with him.

What I find to be really lovely about this topic so far is the lack of judgement towards suicide. It isn't right or wrong, it is a choice. One interesting thought here is that it is more a choice made by our soul, on a higher level, rather than by our physical / mental selves.

Reason I say this is there is a man studying at the spiritual college I go to who tried very hard to commit suicide, and by all rights should have succeeded, but is very much still with us. For all those familiar with the "correct" method of cutting ones wrists, he had several very deep scars running up each of his wrists. He recalls lying there in a pool of his own blood, fading away, and being decisively stopped by some spiritual force, that made a definite point that it was not his time to leave yet.

Anyway, htought that was an interesting side note to this topic. Thanks for sharing Sarah.

It brings me memories of my brothers death. It wasn't suicide, but mostly self induced, as he was a chronic alcoholic, and he died by way of a burst stomach ulcer. I met him in spirit just after he'd passed over. He seemed much happier.

In recent times he has come back to visit me via my dreams. I sense he's around now from time to time looking out for members of my family. I do think sometimes they feel like they need to make up for things a bit.

Blessings,
James.

[El-Bortukali]

When you mentioned Jack not feeling worthy to be where he was, I feel  some of the emotional issues he had has carried over with him.

What I find to be really lovely about this topic so far is the lack of judgement towards suicide. It isn't right or wrong, it is a choice. One interesting thought here is that it is more a choice made by our soul, on a higher level, rather than by our physical / mental selves.

Reason I say this is there is a man studying at the spiritual college I go to who tried very hard to commit suicide, and by all rights should have succeeded, but is very much still with us. For all those familiar with the "correct" method of cutting ones wrists, he had several very deep scars running up each of his wrists. He recalls lying there in a pool of his own blood, fading away, and being decisively stopped by some spiritual force, that made a definite point that it was not his time to leave yet.

He can always blow off his head with a shotgun,or destroy his heart.
I don't think an entitiy,no matter how powerful it is,can restore a soul to a body wich main organs are completly destroyed.
Cutting the wrists is not a good way to suicide.

[PatternsComingToLife]

My thoughts on suicide are similar to many expressed in this thread - it's just another choice we make. I believe any "consequences" of taking such an action are merely those one places on oneself. FWIW I subscribe wholeheartedly to the "you create your own reality" doctrine.

I tend to look at it like we all essentially commit suicide.

Who knows.  :wall:

-Rob

[Leilah]

Selski, you no longer believe suicide is an "appropriate" thing to do? OR...

Hi Leilah

I'm not sure now.  I know that because it was someone I knew, and because he told me not to "go down the same road", that will most definitely remain in my mind, therefore I don't think suicide will ever be an option for me personally, after having this experience.

However, Novice did bring up a good point, being that it may be that Jack thought suicide was in some way "inappropriate" and therefore based on his beliefs (and not mine), he doesn't feel 'worthy' to be in a place quite as nice as the one where we met.

I used to sit on the fence regarding suicide, then only in the last 6 months or so, I began accepting the belief that there is no stigma attached to it - it is just a personal choice amongst many that we make.  

Now I'm back on the fence    

What are your views?

Sarah

Eh. This is a toughie. For awhile, I was against suicide. I thought it was a waste of...experience. Lately however, I've come to the conclusion that it's simply another way of saying "It's time for me to leave". Because I haven't had any experiences-such as your recent one- to persuade me otherwise - I still think it's just one of the many routes possible in life.


"I tend to look at it like we all essentially commit suicide. "

PatternsComingToLife - As far as death goes, I 've always thought it was the person's decision to end their life - whether or not they knew it consciously. That's a great way of putting it.

[James S]

He can always blow off his head with a shotgun,or destroy his heart.
I don't think an entitiy,no matter how powerful it is,can restore a soul to a body wich main organs are completly destroyed.
Cutting the wrists is not a good way to suicide.

If you think cutting wrists is not effective, talk to a few emergency ward nurses or ambulance drivers.
Besides, I think you've missed the point of my post completely.

[El-Bortukali]

I don't need to talk to a few emergency wards nurses.I study medicine which enables me to see  a lot of failed suicide attempts.After all  i have to solve there mess out for them .so if they want to kill themselves at least do it right so i don't have to be up at 4 am because an attention seeker person wanted to die bt failed.

No, i did not missed the point of your post..unless your post was supposed to  contain a Spiritual content, i was just saying if that individual really wanted to kill himself he would have succeeded.

oh and i don't think a spirit has the right to make us live against our will" it's not your time" sounds so corny.after all,what does it matter if some people shorten their  life span? It's not like the person is another Einstein Alexander III,Newton or anything.
Well,this is my point of view,you may not agree and you most likely don't,but good for you.

[James S]

Fair enough El-Bortukali, I stand corrected.
I appreciate you're able to speak from a position of experience here.

I have encountered many cases where spirits have been able to prevent someone from dying, and quite convincingly too.

It does very definitely involve the whole "free will" issue, so consider the idea that the spirit that might not want a person to die, by suicide or any other means, is their own spirit - their soul / higher self.

It's not intervention from other spirits I see happen, its interverntion from a person's own spirit.

If a person's own soul has chosen to experience or learn something in particular, which is something that happens before the soul incarnates into a physical body, and the persons "physical/mental" self opts to end things, what you have is a persons physical actions going against the deep down desires of their own soul, and their soul can manifest some extrodinary things to ensure the survival of their body to complete the lesson or have the experience.

The shotgun case you mentioned. If a persons own soul did not want that trigger pulled, there are so many things it could do to prevent that from happening, from the sublime - getting a friend to be at the right place at the right time, to the ridiculous - the trigger mechanism failing.

Where this happens - where a suicide fails, there is every chance that the event is going to become a very significant part of that person's personal growth.

If the soul is in agreement that a suicide is a viable option, then chances are the person will be completely successful.


Blessings,
James.

[El-Bortukali]

their own spirit - their soul / higher self.

that makes sense.

so on the subconscious/Spiritual they don't really want to die.

heh,humans are complicated.

oh yeah,i might have been a bit brutish on my previous posts,hem,i must say I'm sorry,sleep deprivation does that to me.

[PatternsComingToLife]

Hmmm....

What happens when there is a conflict of interest between the ego/conscious mind and the subconsciousness / "higher" self?

I suppose if the conscious mind is dead-set on committing suicide there isn't much his "spiritual self" can do to stop. If the intention of the conscious mind is not 100% completely dead-set on suicide, and it was in his best interest to continue on living, "it" may intervene in various ways I assume. There is only so much that it can do however I think - I could take a cyanide pill, or whatever whatever - think about it, instead of cutting your wrists a few times, you cut them 100 times.

I talked with a friend about this last night and she came up with a very interesting point. She happens to see eye-to-eye with me regarding "creating your own reality"  and therefore believes that we all kind of commit suicide essentially.

She brought up the point that perhaps when we have "completed our mission/purpose" or whatever you choose to call it, that we choose a death *insert illness here* as to cause less grief to our loved ones. We're willing to suffer and go through a slow death just to "please" our family and friends.

I can see her point, and it makes sense. I'm not sure what to think, to be honest. The loved ones, when they know the entire story later on (after they have also passed away) I think would be mortified to hear he/she choose a suitable death,  perhaps a painful death, based solely on the fact he/she was looking out for them. I wouldn't be pleased to hear that's how it went down, anyway.

A lot to think about  

-Rob

[PatternsComingToLife]

runlola:

Thank you for the clarification - but I am already aware of their differences - what I meant to get accross was the thought coming from a "higher" place. I'll be sure to check myself next time, lol. Thanks.



-Rob