can you define this please

[fowlskins]

i was awoken by my daughter at around 5.00 am for a feed after i put her back down she was unsettled until about 6.00 i thought to my self this would be ideal conditions for lucid dreaming, i got comfy and focused my attention on staying as conscious as possible as i drifted off
i became lucid at least two times through out the dream but the main point i remember was looking at he ground as i was in a graveyard and saying "vivid now" and watching the grass become greener this made me become totally lucid and i spent quite a while taking in the beauty of the surroundings examining tombstones and arches made in the hedgerows i refrained from flying this time as i was enjoying exploring the scene
at some point my attention was back at my body and i felt the unmistakable feeling of vibrations accompanied by a floating sensation i began to rise up towards the ceiling but could not see i got over exited and it woke me up
i remained still and drifted back into and semi conscious state again the vibrations returned and this time they were accompanied by a bright light pouring into my vision i had a slight spike of fear/dread as i thought about entity's but i just ignored the feeling and turned my attention to getting out of body i could see one of my arms in front of me as see through but i still couldn't get out i kept thinking outside but i think i awoke again
the third time the vibrations happened after quite a gap i felt the floating sensation again and i decided after lifting for a bit that i would try to roll out of my body as i rolled there was a disorientating sensation and when i looked back at the bed there was no one in it i was in my room and i went over to the wall to try to push my hand through it but when i put my hand on the wall my fingers went all wiggly like little tentacles
i tried to walk through a wall but just ended up back in another lucid dream about trying to get out of the room by running at walls eventually i found a secret door that i opened that lead to an alternative reality there was a woman opposite me doing the same movements as me from another door across an expanse of electronic chips it was almost like it was an alternative me and we were both looking in to a kind of back stage area of reality that your not supposed to see

i climbed in through the door and tiptoed across the circuit board using transistors as stepping stones , then i was awoken again by her at 8.00 am
this felt to me like the closest i have come to actual exit to date but still feels like i got sucked in to a dream again,

can this be defined as an astral projection or was it a lucid dream ?

[Kzaal]

i was awoken by my daughter at around 5.00 am for a feed after i put her back down she was unsettled until about 6.00 i thought to my self this would be ideal conditions for lucid dreaming, i got comfy and focused my attention on staying as conscious as possible as i drifted off
i became lucid at least two times through out the dream but the main point i remember was looking at he ground as i was in a graveyard and saying "vivid now" and watching the grass become greener this made me become totally lucid and i spent quite a while taking in the beauty of the surroundings examining tombstones and arches made in the hedgerows i refrained from flying this time as i was enjoying exploring the scene
at some point my attention was back at my body and i felt the unmistakable feeling of vibrations accompanied by a floating sensation i began to rise up towards the ceiling but could not see i got over exited and it woke me up
i remained still and drifted back into and semi conscious state again the vibrations returned and this time they were accompanied by a bright light pouring into my vision i had a slight spike of fear/dread as i thought about entity's but i just ignored the feeling and turned my attention to getting out of body i could see one of my arms in front of me as see through but i still couldn't get out i kept thinking outside but i think i awoke again
the third time the vibrations happened after quite a gap i felt the floating sensation again and i decided after lifting for a bit that i would try to roll out of my body as i rolled there was a disorientating sensation and when i looked back at the bed there was no one in it i was in my room and i went over to the wall to try to push my hand through it but when i put my hand on the wall my fingers went all wiggly like little tentacles
i tried to walk through a wall but just ended up back in another lucid dream about trying to get out of the room by running at walls eventually i found a secret door that i opened that lead to an alternative reality there was a woman opposite me doing the same movements as me from another door across an expanse of electronic chips it was almost like it was an alternative me and we were both looking in to a kind of back stage area of reality that your not supposed to see

i climbed in through the door and tiptoed across the circuit board using transistors as stepping stones , then i was awoken again by her at 8.00 am
this felt to me like the closest i have come to actual exit to date but still feels like i got sucked in to a dream again,

can this be defined as an astral projection or was it a lucid dream ?

AP and Lucid Dreams is the same thing, except a few differences (barely). In Lucid Dreams you fall asleep before it eventually kicks in (you're in your dream and fully aware of the scene and everything). In Astral Projection you "trigger" your Lucid Dream, hence the sleep paralysis feeling (because you're still aware of your body). Some like to put them appart, but they're really the same thing.
If someone is in a Lucid Dream, and reach Focus 40 in his LD then it doesn't matter. It's just that when you Astral Project you can get the Hypnagogic State where you may experience weird feelings which can help you further your spiritual development.
While when you're sleeping, you don't feel these because your consciousness is already sleeping so you have to focus in order to do a LD.

The one thing I think that AP is better at is facing your fears, because if you're willing to do an AP you have to overcome these as you go in(which means you are totally conscious about what's your current fear)
. While in LD you can also face your fears but you don't face them as much as when you're fully awake, so you can just Superman yourself through situations quickly as they come in your dream.

I do both AP and LD, it's just that with school and everything, it's very energy consuming and I can't do it during the afternoon. So I mostly attempt AP on weekends and for the week I try to focus while I'm dreaming to attempt LD.

Sometimes tho, I feel as if Astral Projection was more of a special "Holy" kind of things... I mean, it's much easier to feel the source, the energy and you are much more focused. LD's for me seems much more "speedy". I can't always understand the situations and purposes of LD's (sometimes it's just dreams with a semi-focus and semi-conscious mind). While AP's are definitely more clear to me and you are more "THERE".

It's all about the energy you put in it. (I have a lot of trouble going from a regular LD and then augmenting my focus in order to reach the AP zone). To me it's just too difficult so I just stick with either AP or LD. But I know that some people have no problems at all doing that on the forums.

[fowlskins]

well that makes perfect sense to me
but it does mean that ive been striving to achive something that i have already managed on many occasions that ive put down as a failure as it felt to much like a dream
now i can turn my attention to honeing the experience rather than felling like im just tricking myself at the last hurdle 

so with oobe its just a projection where you lucidly see your self out of body
its all very difficult to pigeon hole all these names for what is essentially a different form of the same experience

like when people say its possible to have a oobe or astral project from a lucid dream does that mean that its just possible to turn the attention back to your body before entering another lucid dream then as that seems a pretty pointless step if your already lucid

[fowlskins]

just read xanth's post in another thread with this link

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/

time to stop labeling and just enjoy playing with awareness 

[Lumaza]

like when people say its possible to have a oobe or astral project from a lucid dream does that mean that its just possible to turn the attention back to your body before entering another lucid dream then as that seems a pretty pointless step if your already lucid

That's the hard way to do it. You could just ground yourself in your current scenario/LD to improve your awareness. Then just intend/will yourself to be either somewhere else or doing something else. It really all has to do with "intent". You are already experiencing another realm outside of your current reality at the moment. So, just change your "focus" to something else.

With many people their first conscious OBE adventure occurs spontaneously. Once they have had them a couple of time, the need to be in the "real time zone" isn't there anymore. It could be our first adventure is in the "RTZ" because that's what we needed at the moment. You will find with this practice in general, as it is in life as well, that you are never given more than you can handle! 

[EscapeVelocity]

Congratulations fowlskins,

You had a multi-level, comprehensive, first-time OBE that was self-engineered (or engineered by Instructors) to give you a set of Non-Physical perspectives to compare to one another and give you an idea of your NP Personality awareness within each of these environments.

My advice is that you set aside some time to meditate and reflect on the experience, recalling the nuances of your awareness within each part of the experience; more info may come through as well as perspective. Examine your thoughts within and the "feel" of each experience; what new senses might be giving you feedback? You have to start thinking about these experiences in very non-physical thinking kinds of ways.

Almost exactly, this experience occurred for me back in 2008, just as you describe. Before that, beginning some forty years before, I had numerous and various types of OBEs but it wasn't until 2008 that I had a very comprehensive experience like you describe. And I have seen it with others several times since then. You were shown perspectives from several different angles: Lucid Dream, awake, back in your body with Vibrations, lifting out, RTZ, LD again, RTZ with not seeing your sleeping Physical...etc.

This is a great learning event and you should spend some time reflecting on it. There is SO much to internally process from this experience. This is a very significant event.

The only thing that I sense diminishes it for you as a true OBE is possibly a little lack of awareness at the time. You may feel that it belongs too much to a dream category; don't let this fool you. Your level of awareness at the time is the key and that can be greatly enhanced from where it was, which will in turn increase your presence within the experience.

You did great! You maintained the cohesion of your awareness during several transitions within NPR and PR; that in itself is a huge achievement. The only time you possibly had a minor failure was when you tried to pass completely through the wall and transitioned back into a dream. This might have been a failure to realize the RTZ test that you were in (to realize where you were, maybe?) or it was a failure to transition your awareness to a higher level...I really am not sure because I failed this transition test many times myself; I'm still not quite sure how I passed...LOL

I hope you have begun a journal of your experiences by now; this one, you will find additional info and insights coming through over the next weeks and months...if you choose to be open to it...so you should be preparing a written history of it, so that you can add to it...future experiences will need months and years to fully decompress...I'm not kidding...my Fieldtrip experience "downloaded" itself a couple years after the fact when I lay down one day and just "opened" myself...that was a remarkable personal experience, but totally unexpected at the time.

Great experience! You are on the launchpad to go great places!

EV

[fowlskins]

thanks for that encouragement and feedback EscapeVelocity
that is exactly what i needed to hear right now
ive had quite a few similar projections in the past where ive always been left with the feeling that i was more on the dream side in the end
knowing now that this isnt a failure and that ive been in the right place all these years and its just a matter of improving on my awareness is a big encouragement

i have kept a physical journal for quite a few years of all my dreams lucid moments and oob attempts
ive been interested in astral projection sinse i was a boy and reading arthur c clarke books on mysteries and enigmas
my mum always told me my uncle could do it witch made me want to do it too

in the 90s i was experimenting with consciousness and altered states as im sure alot of others were at this time period 
i had some real break through moments lucid dreaming around then and started buying more books on how to have them and about thon i bought out of body experiences how to have them and what to expect by robert peterson
from then until now ive had a lot of odd sensations and what i saw as good progress but never that ureka moment

found these forums a few years ago and pop in from time to time for a read and maby the odd post
so much useful stuff here
also this year ive typed all my journals up into blog form so i have a digital copy as back up https://fowlskins.wordpress.com/

i will be 40 next year and i really want to crack it once and for all i think my approch has always been very casual i need to go at it full on for a bit

[fowlskins]

been making good progress sinse this last experience many lucid moments and think i finally cracked it last night

here are a few extracts from my journal

i go for a walk around town im in a shop that used to be diamonds its a sweet shop and im adding up the price of sweets i come out of the shop and outside sarahs dairy is jamie cornhill with a really retro stone roses poster ready comes over and the street is really busy and vivid now tim fryer comes past in a convertible car and high fives me this triggered lucidity but rather than entering a lucid dream i transitioned to a lifting out sensation i could now see all the micro chips again that i saw in my last astral travel i kept calm trying to move away from my body but suddenly aware that ive awoken


this set of dreams featured many moments of lucidity and slipping back into dream state some moments included total control and perception on waking the downloading process was difficult and i found it hard to remember all that happened as it lasted so long the only things that i managed to write down were that the same building triggered lucidity twice in the same set of dreams , while lucid/astral i flew around and flew straight through a car windscreen and slowed down hovered above all the people inside the car
had astral sex with some other light beings
another moment of becoming lucid after slipping back i remember standing with my arms out in a crucifix position and taking off straight upwards
all through out the theme was looking for a room number cant remember the number though


woke at 4.00 am to feed lumin put her back down after about 20 minutes and tryed to get back to sleep after another 10 – 15 mins i had exit signs very strong ringing in my ears usual buzzing i could see hypnogogic imagery and i was trying to leave my body by tumbling out or lifting but niether were working i just retuned to the same state of awareness as before this time the images were getting stronger and i decided to try to step into the dream
the dream from now on was on a bed in a apartment that isnt my bedroom the levels of lucidness came and went and also got a bit nightmarish for a short while with baby lumin wrapping around my face stopping me from breathing i eventually took control got out of bed walked around the flat and then up to the window i attempted to push through the glass and even though it felt really sticky (like stretching through clingfilm) i succeeded
i was in a very high awareness now i was thinking differently than i usualy do with my new found understanding of labeling i now knew i was astral projecting and proceeded to try instant traveling to a destination rather than flying there i concentrated on my dads house i started moving there but it wasnt instant it was like i was just moving so i tryed harder and suddenly i was there
then i tryed instant traveling to annas parents house another familiar place this time it was instant but the house was not the same as in waking life , i peered through a small round window and fred was the other side smiling back at me he came out to talk and at the same time penny came out from a corrugated tin out building that was an outside toilet i think from there house i went out exploring flying around and i remember thinking to my self this has gone on for ages i should try to wake up as im not going to remember all of this and this is to much of a breakthrough to lose
i dropped back into a semi lucid dream based near a garage in chard i was with a guys wife in the garage waiting room he came in and was angry with me for some reason but i think i raised my awareness again slightly and was just really polite to him taking control of the dream and it diffused the situation i awoke at 5.30 a good hour long experience from start to finish but as i feared a large percentage of what happened was lost even though i tried to instantly write what i could in my journal ,my body still felt in a odd state i thought i could slip back in quite easily i also had a couple of pangs of fear about sleep paralysis eventualy i dropped off and had one more normal dream before morning

[Szaxx]

To aid your recall, wake yourself slowly and go through everything that happened. Remember your feelings too as these are a very strong trigger in the physical.
Great progress.

[EscapeVelocity]

That's a great set of experiences and you handled them very well.

It becomes really helpful now, once you have a number of differing experiences behind you, to compare and contrast; there is so much to learn from these, patterns that emerge, realizations to be made.

Each of these was a lesson, with tests and challenges to your level of awareness and decision-making. And of course, a Fear test every now and then, thrown in for good fun.

In the first one, it appears you gained full lucidity at the fourth or fifth Dream Trigger. Nice.

You didn't get caught out by the Fear tests that random hypnogogia will throw at you from time to time. Well done!

The transitions between environments, as well as the increase/decrease of your awareness is all designed to teach you about the form and function of these environments and the quality of your awareness within them. Think about and study the "feel" in each of those environments. This is a real workout for, and expansion of, your NP awareness.

In the third experience with the guy and his wife in the garage...did you know them? If not then how did you know their relationship? Either way, you reacted with rationality and cooled the situation. This was likey at least 2 tests and you passed with flying colors.

Plus, you were challenged with finding a new way to exit...for some reason the old methods failed and it definitely occured to you to try the Phase method...did that work?

Thank you for sharing these.

[fowlskins]

firstly thanks again escape velocity for your structured feedback to my experiences it really is appreciated as for your question about knowing the people in the garage i didnt know them they were just random dream chars i think

but anyway its update time again as in the early hours of this morning i had a pretty much textbook exit and projection

its early morning im guessing around 5.30 – 600 ish i wake up to strong vibrations in my body i dont move and go with it there is absolutely no fear the vibration get stronger with a pulsing sound in ears i get a rising floating sensation feels as if i have raised about a foot or more off of the bed but this time i now feel myself exiting out of my body sideways my head is Anchored still but the rest of my astral body is moving clockwise the best way to describe the feeling would be if my real body was the non moving hand of a clock pointing to 12 and my astral body was ticking around to about 4 o clock with my head being the center of the clock and my feet being the top of the second hand

during this lifting out sensation i was suddenly aware of my eyesight going from black to fading into actually being able to see and when i did i was on a staircase i recognized everything perfectly and it was super vivid and everything appeared in the places that it should , i walked down the stairs through the kitchen and into the lounge all the time thinking how amazing this was and that i was in the real time zone (it wasn't until i actually awakened that it dawned on me that i was in my dads house not my own , and even later still i remember that the front door was the old wooden one that was there when i still lived at home so it was actually more like a trip to the past) anyway in the front room i decided to pass through the window i dived and floated through the glass effortlessly belly down out in the cul de sac im just in awe of how realistic everything is and im finally projecting how ive always imagined it to be

there were some odd animals that appeared and i wasn't that happy about them so i tryed to fly but i just jump i start finding it hard to move it feels very sticky and i think to myself that i must be starting to lose clarity so i decide to fast travel back into the bedroom with a conscious effort to not let the experience last to long as i dont want to forget anything , i did manage to fast travel straight back but must of drifted back into a non conscious dream about being in another country trying to get on a bus to taxi us to the airport

i awoke properly now and almost didn't remember having the projection at all but something triggered the memory and i got up and went to get my phone as i had nothing handy to write it down on and didn't want to risk drifting off again

this really feels like a monumental achievement for me ive been interested in astral travel from right back at the age of about 7 or 8 reading Arthur c clarke mystery books and ive been practicing with varying degrees of failure and success from about the age of 18 until now im 40 in july and im hoping that this is just the beginning of finally honing this skill

[Lumaza]

this really feels like a monumental achievement for me ive been interested in astral travel from right back at the age of about 7 or 8 reading Arthur c clarke mystery books and ive been practicing with varying degrees of failure and success from about the age of 18 until now im 40 in july and im hoping that this is just the beginning of finally honing this skill

That was a MONUMENTAL ACHIEVEMENT Fowlskins. GREAT JOB

You awoken during SP and stayed consciously aware during the entire process. Believe me, that is quite a accomplishment in itself. It can get pretty strange at times. You then had a full OBE in every sense of the word.

On top of that you maintained your awareness all the way through the scenario at hand "knowing" exactly what was happening along the way. You also grounded yourself firmly into the new realm that you were experiencing.

Once again GREAT JOB!  

[PhaseEvolution]

Sounds to me like a mixture of both. I have those occasionally too. The things that define a projection in my personal experience are that I don't have to lose consciousness to reach the projection state and the pre sensations are of a physical, not a dream nature. That being said, I have transitioned from an LD to an AP many times, going through the vibrations as you did, then as I start to lose focus and phase back to the physical, it will occasionally turn to an LD again.