No need to return!?!?

[AndrewTheSinger]

Having just returned from an incredible experience, or set of experiences, there are some things that I'd like to point out, and to know if others have gone through something similar.

There's something that I do to prolong the time that I stay on the astral when I'm flying, I choose the farthest visible/possible spot and move towards it as fast as I can, as if it was the mission of my life. If I'm not flying so fast I choose one that is kinda near.

So, I was doing this, after having about 3 other long experiences and no recollection of having returned to my body for a 'pit stop'. Flying incredibly fast towards the horizon, there was a little girl sitting on my back, I was helping her to fly. I had just jumped from the highest tower and was floating in the air, this child asked me if she could jump too, I said it was OK, and she did, but couldn't fly too well and began to cry as she was falling into the sea. I put her on my back and headed towards the horizon. I was flying superman's style, with my right hand pointing to the place that I wanted to reach, when suddenly I realized I didn't have a body anymore.

I commented to the girl, 'Oops, I might have woken up, I have no arm anymore.'. It was like I was just a point of consciousness standing still in the middle of that amazing landscape.

Not wanting to give up, I began to feel like falling into the sea, and so I did it. By now my vision was almost gone, I could only see hazy colours, hues of purple and blue, but heard myself having dove into the waters. Swimming there for a while I realized I needed to return to my body or it could be bad, so I slipped into what I'll call "RTZ1" (Real-Time Zone 1).

Most are familiar with it. You can perceive the physical world the way it is, but eventually some things will seem to be another, they are not really hallucinations because the environment doesn't change, instead some things appear to be added to the normal environment. Illusions. While on the RTZ1 one can't hear his/her voice or move his/her ghost body. You will hear and see the physical world, but you're not really there, there's no way to have any kind of interaction with the environment. You may even feel like you're moving your arms, but you won't see anything moving, your point of view will be the same of your physical body, a little out of phase as you can move about it to some extent, but never get away from it. This is the closest to the physical you will get while still alive.

So I remained there for some time, naively trying to get up and OBE, then after a while I slipped into "RTZ2". This is the astral counterpart of the physical, where you float above your body, you can turn on the TV and lift the covers. Interaction here is normal.

I was kinda worried, because I got closer to my body but still hadn't reentered, didn't feel like I had to either. Didn't want to wake up yet, but also didn't want to let my body think that I would leave it forever. Started to pay attention to my heartbeat, should there be any problem I would jump into my body right away. It was normal, I could hear my heart and my breathing. It was cool, so I turned on my astral TV, still in bed.

The first channel was kinda freaky so I changed the channels. Turned up the fan speed, the gust of wind was very strong this time, but I noticed that instead of adjusting the speed using the wheel, there were buttons.

OK, so I'm here watching this crazy TV and being blown by this aeroplane turbine, but hey, shouldn't I return!!!???

That's when I decided to cut it all off and get into my body. It felt very warm, nice, but unwilling to move, my breathing was very deep. I was sweating, and it's been very cold here.

It felt like I could have stayed there if I wanted to. I like to think that when someone is to die like that there will be a great signpost saying 'HEY, ARE YOU SURE YOU WANNA GO THAT WAY?!', or someone to tell you "It's not your time, son.". I might have blabbed so much that now 'they' decided to let me do whatever I wanted. It feels kinda loose, has anyone ever felt this?

All comments are appreciated.

[Mitch]

Awesome (and kinda scary) experience.

Just curious, why did you go back? Fear? Duty to friends and family? Curiosity (to see if you were stuck out or not)?

I would have stayed.

[AndrewTheSinger]

Mitch, I believe it is a human instinct, I was trying to fight it but at some point I always give up. When it feels that there is a real danger involved that you might die, you come back, even when that danger is just imaginary. Even though I don't think it was imaginary, I've stayed out for so long that in my head something had to be wrong.

I was afraid that I could be hurting myself by not returning, and that eventually my heart would stop or my brain would die, damn, I don't like to think about these things.

Other times some incredible pain would force me to come back, or someone would grab my arm and drag me back, but this time none of that happened, and it kinda scared me to be out so free. I don't mean to complain, I might have asked for this in the past, all I know is that I really don't know what I want.

[upstream]

I like the distinction you made between the two kind of RTZ environment. RTZ1 is what I often call "fake RTZ" but I think the common dream plane would be a more appropriate term. The root of this state is the state where false awakenings happen, that is, inside your mind as it projects out into the melleable environment in a form of the house you sleep in. The common dream plane is made of a lose net of human minds, appearing like houses. The space inbetween is pretty much unformed. RTZ1 is somehow associated with the upper part of the chest and the type of sleep paralysis of a more hallucinatory nature.

The "real RTZ" what you call RTZ2 is the state of stone cold paralyis and has to do something with the genital region. It's really an immobile state but if you shift your attention to the solar plexus centered bioplasm ("ethreic") body you can move around freely as a blob of attention and perceive the physical world as it is.

[AndrewTheSinger]

Oh, upstream, so I should kinda exit through my navel? Is there a recommended procedure on how I go about doing this? Is it just felt or I have to use visualizations too? Have you done this, and if so, how different is it from the commom AP (mechanisms)? I'm curious, many times I've tried to break free while I was seeing the real RTZ, but it wasn't possible, I always have to slip into the fake RTZ before I can separate.

Thanks.

[upstream]

Oh, upstream, so I should kinda exit through my navel?

Sure, Andrew. There is an exit point there, probably the biggest after the crown of the head. Not quite at the navel but little above where the ribs start to diverge. It's a fist sized soft spot below the sternum. It's probably not a phyisical structure but a projection of the mind that's just roughly correspond to the human anatomy.

Pushing yourself through the solar plexus can be done many inefficient ways but even after you know what to do it might still be difficult. You may have already noticed that your felt body has a water like quality in that immobile state, like ballon filled with water that you can push out here and there causing other parts to become tensed.

To make it brief, the best way I can descibe the proper action is like condensing your fluid body in the solar plexus, pulling energy back from the extremities into the geometric center of your energy field until you sort of repelled out.

Another way is to try to separate without moving your body or changing the position of limbs relative to each other, that is, separating your virtual body at once. This method however, involves the creation of a second body which makes the experience more dreamy by default.

I found an interesting relationship between how a double separates and the type of resulting experience. When the virtual body detaches first at the legs the result would be a "heavy, etheric" projection. If the upper part of your dream body is what comes out first you likely separate within (the personal part of) the common dream plane.

In between these two extremes is what seems to be the ideal focus for having a balanced RTZ experience. This focus is the middle of the chest which neither belongs to the physical nor to the dream state of consciosuness. The polarity flip, when you found yourself laying in head-leg position, occurs through this point and might symbolize total detachement from the physical senses.

You can try to set this chest consciosuness by trying to separate without moving as I described above but I found it very difficult. This part of consciousness also requires bioplasm to be associated with, othewise your attention would slowly shift toward the dream state (which is a general trend anyway). So it's more easy to try the bioplasmic exit  through your solar plexus and not insisting to the human form whatsoever.

Experience of the subtle realms by John Heron, Chapter 3. Visits to the other world

I lie in bed, it does not matter in what position as long as I am very deeply relaxed both mentally and physically.  I then imagine all the energy in my body being drawn to a central point around the area of the solar plexus: I consciously 'withdraw' energy from all the extremities and focus it, condense it, in this one place - which is really, of course, a subtle space within the physical body.

I must hold this conscious focus of energy in the subtle region of the solar plexus, without any distraction of attention to, or any 'leaking' back of energy to, the extremities. The challenge is to sustain the focus for a sufficient time, in a state that combines intense alertness with deep relaxation. The activity of consciousness is contracted to a central point, without drifting back to the limbs - which remain totally inert, dispossessed. Then, after a certain period of charging up, the process of going out begins.

Going out is a dramatic experience.  There is a very powerful  and very rapid spiral thrust of energy, an intense vortex of motion in subtle space, that hurtles my consciousness from the solar plexus region up to and out through my head.  It is like being carried off in a rushing whirlwind.

The second entry is from a very good read that I have recently come upon and highly recommend to all. Now I know if I'm delusional at least I'm not alone in my craze. I like the way the author emphatizes the role of preexit consciousness in the fate of projection and how he makes destinction between energy exit and rolling/laming out.

Excerpts from "A Short Discourse on OBE Perception" by Gavin Howden:

If I OBE from this state I have to perform an energy exit (an energy exit is an exit as nothing more than a cloud of awareness, no astral body is involved), I usually exit from around my solar plexus area.  I find that once I am out of body, I think perfectly, I can comprehend as though I was awake, and all of my desires and wants and wishes still exist in very clear form.  The world in which I am OBE is also a very exact rendition of the waking reality.  It is as though I am fully awake, with a full waking consciousness.  Important to note is that my consciousness whilst OBE represents my consciousness on the point just before exit, no change takes place. (...)

I have tried a huge multitude of exit techniques, and I don't think that my experiences with them would be much different to anyone else's.  I find that the single easiest exit technique going is the roll over and fall out method.  This does seem to leave me with a much more subjective experience though.  I always try for the energy exit and then if I just really am not having any luck with it I opt for the roll out method. (...)

Once hypnogogic I can usually see already but occasionally I need to concentrate hard to see, by actually intending to see.  If I cannot see quickly the experience often becomes really confused as when I start to see I think my eyes are actually open and I lose track of what I am doing!

All going well up to this stage, and usually it is, I will begin to destroy everything strange that I can see around me.  I just look at things very critically and try to wipe everything I can, by using my mind until almost nothing is left except the room, as it pretty much should be.  The idea is to erase subjectivity, challenge everything that does not look right and gain as higher level of awareness and balance that you can.  You will soon find that you can pretty much command the environment by thought.

Next step is to attempt an energy exit. An energy exit is an OBE exit that does not involve an astral double or any kind of bodily-related action such as standing or rolling out. I pull all the energy up from each of my legs and try to hold it in my stomach, and then I pull energy down from my arms and shoulders into my stomach.   

I well this energy up until it may feel quite uncomfortable before I move it to my solar plexus.  This is the trick.  I move my awareness energy down from my head into the solar plexus and then continue out of my solar plexus so that I am projecting out of my body into the room.  When I have to try really hard for this exit, it usually wont work and then I fall back to the 'Roll out" exit instead. 

When the energy exit is successful I am not really aware of the transfer of consciousness until I am maybe a foot out of my body, then my point of view seems to change to the front of this extruding energy.  A bit more of a push and I seem to spring out, as if the energy is elasticised and when it brakes free of the body I catapult and spring maybe 10 feet, all quite slowly.  I also spin all the way, really as if some tension has been broken.

I try hard not to do anything as I would when in my body as these actions such as touching etc tend to build me an astral double and my experience becomes less objective.  I like to observe from here and quite enjoy floating around aimlessly. You can still move around by the power of thought but care is required to prevent subjective pollution.   

Everything looks like it's a dead stage, hard to explain, but everything looks lifeless and hard.  Strange thing is that even though you have no real form all the senses seem to work from all points of your awareness cloud.  You can feel the temperature and texture of things your cloud touches as well as the taste and smell of them.  In this state you are very aware of your physical body, from its breathing and heart beat to the paralysis if you try to speak or move too suddenly.

The exit process can be a major factor towards the objectivity of projection experience.  The non-energy exits can be very clumsy and often take several attempts each leaving you a little more un-balanced until you finally achieve the exit. Sometimes I just appear out of body and I am instantly submerged in dreaminess.

[thenoob]

Hey Andrew,
Just read your experience, thought it was very interesting. Most interesting to me was the little girl that sat on your back while you flew off like superman. Lovely details like that really make it fun.

[AndrewTheSinger]

Upstream - That's great. I will try that and post the results. The experience by Gavin Howden was specially informative and interesting, gave me ideas already. Thanks for presenting this great deal of information.

thenoob - Ya, I try to keep it as brief and 'to the point' as possible, but If I knew you would read it I'd add some more details hehe. I bet you can see the scene in your mind. I find it cool when I can visualize other people's stories too.

[MisterJingo]

Hey Andrew,

Thanks for sharing - it was a very interesting experience .

[AndrewTheSinger]

 

[AndrewTheSinger]

So, today I had the chance to try that technique as I found myself observing the realtime-zone. At first I thought I was in a dream, for the images were no so clear, but then I could see my room and felt paralyzed.

I tried to feel my inner-body dissolving into a liquid form, first the legs and then the head and arms, and imagined that I would flow out through my navel region as if it was an open tap.

After a while I could feel some slight wind around my belly, but nothing more 

I'm not used to energy work and chakras, that could have hindered my success, I'll keep on trying and see what happens.

[Awakened_Mind]

I've had experiences similar to this before. Sometimes it's almost as if you reach a stage where the body "misses" the projected double and sought of wills it back. After rigorous energy work I still find that the length of OBE's is somewhat limited.

Would you consider any of your experiences an experience of Astral wind?

-Awakened_Mind

[AndrewTheSinger]

Yes, this is kinda rare, I thought something would change after this, but on the first experience I had after that one I could barely get across the room before waking up.

Astral wind, hmm, sometimes I guess. It's like a wind that comes out of nowhere, right? Maybe not this one of the wind around my solar plexus, cause it was clearly something that I was creating, but one that really surprised me was when I was dreaming that I was playing around a swimming pool and suddenly this wind grabbed me and dragged me to the inside of a building, and then inside an elevator.

I was trying to escape from the wind but was unable. Then the elevator went up and I was kinda scared, so I prepared myself to attack whatever showed up when the doors opened. 

What happened is that I found a friend that was my classmate some 8 years ago, and then I started laughing because my fear was ungrounded.

Later I learned that this friend had been unjustly arrested and spend 9 months in jail for accepting to take a ride from his bad friend that had just stolen a car. He was going from college to his home when his 'friend' passed by and offered him a ride, the police started chasing them and then the guy told him the car was stolen.  Even though he had evidence that he was inside the university when the car was stolen and the victim didn't recognize him, the police wouldn't release him.

[Awakened_Mind]

Definately sounds to me like an Astral Wind experience. I think we see the symbolic imagery in a way we ourselves are able to understand at some level. Subjectively. This is the reflecting nature of consciousness.

I'm not sure why we are shown some of these things. Perhaps the signify a turning point in our life?

Is this problem still persisting or have things improved?

-AM

[AndrewTheSinger]

I mean, my friend was really arrested, it happened in real life. In my dream I was just dragged there inside the building and found him, we talked things that I don't remember now, but we were laughing.

Didn't know he was in jail as we had long lost contact, but this dream might have happened while he was still imprisoned. I probably wrote it in my dream diary. Yup, August 9, 2003. We regained contact in 2004, and that's when he told me what had happened to him.

Analyzing it now, there are things that start to make sense:

*I was grabbed and dragged to an elevator and the doors closed. / He was grabbed and dragged to a cell.

*Inside the elevator I was scared and would attack anything that appeared when I was free again. / He said that while he was in there he felt very angry about everything and everybody, and many times thought about taking revenge on society when he was released.

Now it's over, he's alright and enjoying life again, lost contact so I can't say much.


Regarding my astral experience, it didn't happen again that I felt I could have stayed forever. My time is also limited. It seems to happen once every 2-3 months. I wouldn't call it a problem, it's like a chance that I'm given to make a choice about my existence. I was free to go but I was also free to come, hope I won't have the problem of not being free to come, that would freak me out.