obe through lucid dreams...

[astralmugee]

so the brain produces DMT wich is the most powerfull hallucinagen on earth. now the brain produces the most before death, and in near death experiences and during rem stages of sleep. so when your in rem sleep and are having lucid dreams,and obe how do we know its not part of the trip? or that a obe ap is just us using this chemical? im just curious. theres much about the brain that we cant explain, science seems to conflict with experience and spirituality as it always will....(spell check is not working for me, so sorry for the misspelled words..)

[CFTraveler]

science seems to conflict with experience and spirituality as it always will.

I disagree with this assertion.
Science only seems to conflict with spirituality when it is used as a tool to contradict spirituality, and vice versa.

The idea that a NDE or an OBE is brain-generated instead of brain mediated is an idea, and the existence of DMT or any other brain function don't preclude one idea over the other- it just shows how the brain gives form to energy or perception.

For example, every time someone brings this up they never explain how people that have these episodes can describe things that were happening when they were clinically dead (not before and not after, and this has been verified over and over) and how people occasionally see things that are happening far away.  The DMT or any other brain explanation can describe how someone can turn this information into an image, for example, or an experience, but don't describe how they got the information in the first place.

[astralmugee]

interesting. thats what shined me into looking at AP and OBE. I saw a show of people who when undergoing surgery would die on the table with out the doctors knowing. and how they said they could hover above and see the doctors opperating on them. then I saw a science show, and they where talking about kenetic energy in the human body and how kenetic energy cannot be destroyed or die. there for our energy takes us somewhere else. I was just curious of how dmt interferes or reacts with obe etc.

[CFTraveler]

I think DMT helps shape the information into visions- so if you perceive energy that says "I'm a facilitator", you can shape it in any way (and that's what DMT does, IMO) it shows you a picture of a (teacher, doctor, authority figure) to illustrate what your brain understands a facilitator to be.
Now your brain takes the information "helper" and finds something that describes this energy from your memories, and then produces the DMT to make the vision itself.
Anyway, that's my interpretation.

[Lighten]

DMT seems to have a 'removal' effect. The most popular claim from people who take DMT is that they see reality from a different perspective. Sounds to me like it is the dream chemical. If you are dreaming while fully awake, seems like you would question reality.

People can have OBE's without REM sleep or a NDE. I'm not a scientist who has studies DMT, but I assume it takes a small amount of time to produce the chemical. My father had an OBE while taking a hit of Nitrous Oxide, so if anything, DMT probably makes the OBE less real. There probably is no way to have a pure OBE because of brain chemicals and such.