projection with eyes open?

[Spike]

Ok............

1. For me, it is a readjustment from returning to my physical body. You can see through your eyes and also from your perception of the astral. It is a weird place and does move around a bit. Sing both at the same time is bound to be a bit disorientating.

2. This is the 'vibrational' state referred to in Astral Dynamics. Incidentally, when I project, this is a really noisy time for me and I vibrate quite violently. It is nothing to be concerned about, in fact I enjoy the feeling.

3. No idea but it sounds cool. Go for it and discover more about it.

Good luck

[olly]

It's hard to fight the feeling of panic just before paralysis that instinctively flicks my eyes open. That's the only explanation I have for it. I'll figure out how to deal with it, and it doesn't happen every time.

(DEBerry, sorry but I wasn't really looking for a 'well-duh' answer to be honest so I'm not sure what your point is!)

What I'm more interested in is the fact that, when it does happen, the things I see with my physical eyes [often just the ceiling or the bedroom door] seem
completely nonsensical.

I just cannot understand the image of the ceiling before me until I snap back in, and it slowly seems to make sense, without altering at all!

It reminds me of a feature I read about a guy who was born blind and had an operation to restore his sight when he was an adult.

They discovered that after the operation, he seemed to be still blind, despite his protestations to the contrary.

A neurologist came up with a theory.

The man couldnt understand anything he was seeing, until they gave him geometric shapes to feel and study. Then he began to understand the chaos of colour and shapes. He'd see a floating sphere, for example, in the mass, after handling and studying a sphere.

Eventually he could grasp complex geometrical structure on a visual level in relation to himself (i.e his position and point of view in comparison to the object). He had to learn understand the images in front of him as they related to his own location.

Whats this seems to suggest is that we cannot visually grasp anything outside of its physical and geometric context. Babies do a similar thing, handling simple geometric shapes. Could they be doing the same as the restored blind man?

So my visual understanding is thrown by the fact that all my other senses are (for example) touching the wardrobe door at the edge of my room, while my physical eyes are still staring up from the bed.

The images dont tally with the physics. Furthermore, once I snap back in and can understand the visual images again, I seem to vividly hallucinate and trip out for about fifteen to thirty seconds, as if my brain is readjusting again. This never happens after waking up, only after projection.

Anyone else had this experience?
....and no DEBerry, I didnt take any acid before I went to sleep!

quote:Originally posted by DEBerryJr:
In spite of being obvious, why don't you try closing your physical eyes before paralysis sets in?

Sincerely,

D. E. Berry Jr.

[olly]

that makes good sense, Spike.

Seeing both astral and physical at the same time is a possibility, but if so I seriously worry about what sort of weird excrement is going on out there. The hallucinations are extremely odd.

And the watery place? I actually did have a good look at it, as it was the first time I actually projected without seeing nothing or the ceiling. It was dark blue and completely underwater, there were undulating black fish-like things that seemed utterly disinterested in my presence. Also a feeling of 'oh another one's here' and a surprising lack of fear.

As I naturally hit a deep paralytic trance when lying in bed, I only seem to visually project into completely otherwordly places, which I find intense and disorienting. Real-time projection is very rare for me, and extremely short-lived.

Another was an adobe desert place full of houses, each seeming occupied and surrounded by roses I felt there were a lot of other people there, and it was real enough for me to rub the sand between my fingers. None of this is imagery that has ever appeared in an ordianry dream. Also I was completely cogent and in control.

Are these places the lucid dream pools that are sometimes mentioned?

[Meg]

Hi Olly,

Perhaps as you get less conscious of your physical body and further into the astral (it sounds like you are from the places you describe - that's the cool bit!)) the trouble with your conscious eyes seeing will go away? It hasn't happened to me visually, but I did start off projecting with generally more sensory input from my physical body than I do now.

Are the hallucinations you get in you room maybe some kind of false awakening? For me, this often comes hand in hand with paralysis. The panic used to be very hard to control for me too, but its gotten better with time. In a false awakening, I'll think I've woken up, but everything is kind of bizarre.  I also wonder if it might just be that you have immersed yourself in another state of consciousness, so it takes some time to adjust back.. This will probably sound silly, but I remember once I had a really full on massage, totally lost myself in it! and when it was over I couldn't see normally for about half an hour! It literally was like an acid trip.

Good luck. It sound like you're at some kind of turning point, so keep experimenting. I'm finding it interesting enough just to watch the twists and turns of my learning curve!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

[Spike]

My perceptions are very weird when OOB. My first 'real' OBE occured when I awoke with very violent vibrations and realised that what I was looking at was, in fact, behind me (other side of the room). When I adjusted my vision (perception is probably a better word as I dont think that you actually view anything but percieve it when 'out') where my window once was became a portal of sorts (not much experience with portals I'm afraid) and 3 'light' beings came through to watch me.
This of course freaked me completely (although they didn't do anything) but I was expecting my first proper OBE to be a private experience hahaha!
What I am getting at here is that my 'view' once out seems to be from a single 'point' that can be adjusted to look anywhere even from a 'vibrating' body that it is still part of at that time.
This must lead to all sorts of strange perceptions must it not? It certainly does for me and my limited experience.
By the way, I have never met anything to be scared of yet, so it may help to just go with the flow and see where it takes you.
Take care.

[olly]

thanks guys!

that helped...

BTW, sorry DEberry if my post to you seemed a bit defensive.

It's just the last person (my girlfriend) I mentioned this stuff to made me feel like a bit of an idiot -so now I'm not used to people discussing it and I can get ultra-defensive about whether my accounts are completely literal!!
This will be rectified!

I'm pretty sure the visual stuff isnt false awakening as I've had that before when I was much younger.

The weird tripping tends to follow me for a few seconds if i wander off to the to toilet, and it is extremely vivid.

Have read the Treatise which has clarified a lot. Will try wearing a face-mask thingy before I go to bed, even if I do end up looking like batman...

olly

P.S. Meg -what do you mean by 'it sounds like you are from the places that you're seeing'. That sounds very intriguing!

[ralphm]

I don't know what to do about open eyes, I also have had my eyes open while asleep and have experienced the world scrambled until my concious mind woke up. Quite a weird perception, seems like my asleep mind rearranged reality to make more sense, like rotating it 90 degrees. Shows how our mind could alter reality without our agreement/knowledge!
For the buzzing, it seems like the more I project, the more the sound went away.

[Leyla]

The last astral experience I had was with my eyes open. It was rather odd. First time that's ever happened to me.
I have had paralysis also, but at some point during my OBE I become aware of, and able to control my body. This is how I managed to get my eyes closed . I re-opened and closed them again several times.
I find that paralysis is a temporary stage you go into when leaving and re-entering your body.
Perhaps after you experience the initial paralysis and go into the astral, you could check back in with your physical body and close your eyes. You might be surprised to find you are in two worlds at once, fully conscious of them both. And able to control them both.
At least, that's how I experience it.

[Meg]

Olly; going back a few posts here...what I meant by saying it sounds like you're going further into the astral..

The way I've experienced it, I started off just being in my room and then started going further and further. At some point a couple of years back I started to jump from my bedroom window (sounds silly when I write it down!)and I wind up in all these wierd and wonderful places. Sometimes they will look as if they were on earth - like, I remember once lying on a stone in what looked to me like the welsh country-side with big fields and the ocean behind me... and other times they don't look so real - I remember once walking on these giant sanddunes by a purple ocean with these strange wispy old men and women wandering lost around me. I can't describe these things other to say that I must be going further into the astral world... beyond the real  time zone. That's what your experiences with the "blue watery place" sound like to me. Which is kind of cool!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

[olly]

hello.
I'm new to this board, so please bear with my rambling...

I regularly get paraysis, so when I project, its often with my physical eyes open.

The image of the ceiling above my bed suddenly becomes meaingless, and I cannot work out what I am seeing. I can feel my body floating around the room, and I can touch other parts of the room, but the image of the ceiling is all I see, and that just seems to be a clutter of shapes and shadows until I snap back.

And when I do, it's like being on acid! Even once I have awoken, everything is trippy and odd. The walls seem to shimmer, and I sometimes outright hallucinate. I have to rub my eyes to stop this!

Its as if the image of the ceiling that my physical eyes were sending to my brain conflicted with the sensory messages my astral body was sending.

So the visuals were out of context and made no sense whatsoever.

Q1 What's with the weird acid tripping after 'snap-back'?!!

Q2 Why do my head and ears buzz so loudly I often get scared and wake up?

Q3: And I've seen a white tunnel and twice ended up in a weird blue watery place that I'm sure wasnt anywhere on earth. That did not sound like a normal projection to me...

Good that's off my chest.

bye.