Sorry my friend.... but in the nicest of ways....Are you Crazy? Projecting into space, earths direct gravitational influence... Have you been watching to much Start Trek?
Have you considered the possibility that you was dreaming?.... That most of you guys that think your projecting are in actual fact just dreaming?
Our minds are very powerfull, we can easily Delude ourselves into thinking it's actually real.
So I surpose my question to you is.... How can you be sure, 100% you wasn't just dreaming.
Let me answer your questions one-by-one in the order they were written.
Am I crazy? I would have to say yes, this is because any psychiatrist would
say I'm hallucinating during my sleep cycles. Aside from a psychiatric
perspective I would have to say I'm using a reflection of my waking conscious
mind to travel and perceive in a subtle body, or in a body that is not physical.
And no I've not been watching too much Star Trek, I used Star Trek's
Enterprise in warp speed as an analogy to describe how space debris was
behaving when it entered into earth's direct gravitational influence.
I have considered the possibly I was dreaming and I was, but the difference
between a normal dream and this account was I was wide awake and lucid and
using a subtle body to travel and perceive. I'm 100% sure I was dreaming
using my real-time double to perceive with instead of using my physical
body to perceive with. I'm 100% sure. You may still wonder "How can he be
sure". I'm sure because I was lucid and aware while my physical body was
sleeping. I know my physical body was sleeping because I put it to sleep.
It's a simple trick, you should try it.
Sincerely,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
1) Earths gravitational influence wouldnt effect your projected form in any way, therefore you would have zero clue as to where Earths gravitational influence ended.
2) The chances of you actually seeing a piece of space rock entering the Earths atmosphere is slim to none even though many pieces of space rock enter the Earths atmosphere on a daily basis - even so, the majority of these rocks are so small you wouldnt see them and it would be quite some time between seeing any space rocks large enough to view.
Im afraid I have to agree with the previous poster and say you must have dreamt up the whole thing and that you didnt project.
oh come on! who in the hell are you people to say he didnt project!? im sorry, i had no idea this was the astral royal society lol, nah dude, sounds like a interesting experience, and from the sounds of it you did project, sheesh, just annoys the hell out me, when people out of the blue say "it was a dream" or "that wasnt a obe" etc, what bulls**t that is, how would they know?? any aay, peace.
xx
I thought the idea of this place was not to judge if a person was or was not 'projecting' but to comment on the experience? I have not had any experience similar but I think anytime someone wakes from their experience vomiting it is an intense experience whatever you call it.
Exactly ralphm, first time i have heard of any one vomiting, it must of affecting his body in such a way.
Thanks to Manuel, MJ-12, and Ralphm for your support. I wasn't going to say
anything until you guys stepped in. This is a forum to discuss memorable,
unusual, and mystical out-of-body experiences. This is not as far as I know
a skeptics forum. Thanks for your support and co-operation.
Sincerely,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
I used logic and my knowledge of astrology and astral projection to desern that he did not project. I dont need no s**t from people telling me I shouldnt tell people they didnt project - who are you people to tell me i'm wrong in my assertion? and how the **** am I judgeing his experience, this aint no chuffing trial, im giving out my opinion on his experience - if he didnt like my opinion then he shouldnt have posted about it. You guys need to get liiiiiiives!
* Edited for langauge..please tone it down *
xx
I have to agree w/MJ-12,Hephaestus:
maybe on other forums people can get away w/that crap.BUT NOT HERE (just how old ARE you anyways-judjing from your primitive use of language,I would say you are in your mid teens,or earlier.if you are older than that,then please act like it;) ).and about "who the F*** are you to tell me I'm wrong on my assertion"?
I'll tell you:[:P]
it quite simply,wasn't your experience.you didn't wake up and vomit all over the floor[xx(].and I have news for you-dreams take place in temporary ASTRAL ENVIRONMENTS.where reality is temporarily 'molded' by our subconcious minds.
have you ever projected into the real time zone? or an astral realm close to this universe?
I HAVE.
and yes,there is alot of debris out there.just look at any nasa space shuttle footage.there's crap all over the place-earth has an atmosphere to deal w/it before we even notice it was there.
and yes Matthew-the distances are astonishingly vast in deep space.several times I've projected into space,shooting myself out of my body like a bullet,and then travelled even faster,andstill didn't really even get anywhere.I think the only way to travel to other star systems or planets is the 'instant travel method',which,unfortunately,leaves you open to shift into an astral realm.of course,this doesn't really matter,we never really travel in actual physical reality anyways,it just depends on how close you can get to it.
and about the matter of becoming sick-if you ever attempt another close astral/RTZ projection,you have to really focus your mind,so you aren't so 'open'.I don't know if that will help,but I always get the best results from being in a very focused state of mind-much more so than in the physical.so that I feel more 'closed off around the sides' (for want of better term!).also practice silencing the internal dialogue whenever possible,as this will really help you to focus,and not be overcome by the vastness.after all,we are surrounded by that infinity all the time,so therefore (hopefully) it must be a psychological issue.
good luck.don't feed the trolls.[:)]
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestus
I used logic and my knowledge of astrology and astral projection to desern that he did not project. I dont need no s**t from people telling me I shouldnt tell people they didnt project - who are you people to tell me i'm wrong in my assertion? and how the f*** am I judgeing his experience, this aint no chuffing trial, im giving out my opinion on his experience - if he didnt like my opinion then he shouldnt have posted about it. You guys need to get liiiiiiives, jesus f***ing christ!
Take a nice deep breath...thats it, you need to be a little more calmer, my thoughts remain the same on this issue, i need to get a life? wheres that sarcastic smiley when you need it.
quote:
Originally posted by manuel
oh come on! who in the hell are you people to say he didnt project!? im sorry, i had no idea this was the astral royal society lol
I did not say it was definitely a dream? for who am I to judge!
I was just expressing my opinion as I believe we all have a right to an opinion, so you may step down off your high horse.
Personally I think alot of people think they are projecting when in actual fact they are merely dreaming, logically when a person wants something so much their brain may trick them into thinking they have experienced something which hasn't actually realistically accured like projecting into space. So by speaking of the positive and negative sides to your experience you might get a greater understanding to whether it actually happened or not.
quote:
Originally posted by ralphm
I thought the idea of this place was not to judge if a person was or was not 'projecting' but to comment on the experience? I have not had any experience similar but I think anytime someone wakes from their experience vomiting it is an intense experience whatever you call it.
I do agree with you ralphm, but I have also woke up from many dreams with intense vomiting simply because the dream was so overwhelming and I don't believe I (AP) I'm just giving you an insight from another perspective.
Off the topic slightly, 8 years ago when I was 16 I was with some friends and we were looking for UFO's which apparently were spotted in the area. We all really wanted to see them so much that we started to become delusional thinking that every plane which went past was a UFO because it had flashing lights and was traveling quite fast. The atmosphere in the car was incredibly intense and we all felt physically sick, and we was.
We never went to that spot and looked for UFO's again, infact we never even spoke about that experience again... "maybe we was abducted" who knows.
The moral of the story is, we all wanted to see and thought we was seeing something which actually wasn't real therefore making us physically sick through that intense overwhelming moment.
I don't think we take the capabilities or our minds seriously "realisticaly" and can at times become delusional.
And as to Hephaestus post, I think he is very knowledgeable with regards to the realistic scientific element of space astrology and once again was just expressing his opinion to which he has the right to do. So there was no need to criticize his post.
yeah one can say a lot with . look at it . damn, but realy dude, the guy has claimed he was 100% lucid during the whole experience, so how do we know he did NOT have an ap? thats all.
To set the record straight I was LUCID during both experiences. I also did
a lot of thinking about it and I remember having spherical vision during
both experiences. That rules out any remote possibility I was having an astral
out-of-body experience. It proves I was having a real-time out-of-body
experience.
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
quote:
I remember having spherical vision during both experiences. That rules out any remote possibility I was having an astral out-of-body experience. It proves I was having a real-time out-of-body experience.
Do you mean it's impossible to have spherical vision while APing?
I experienced most of the things you described but I never had an RTZ projection...
I'm not saying anything that I haven't said. What I can tell you is that
I've never experienced spherical vision during a lucid dream or astral
projection. And I've only experienced spherical vision during real-time
projections. Get it?
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
So, what "rules out any remote possibility you were having an astral
out-of-body experience" ...?
Nagual,
Spherical vision.
Sincerly,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
Goodness ya'll..I deleted the blank posts. Please try and reign it in, the anger that is.
MK, I found your post interesting and plausible.[:D] I have never experienced space while having a OOBE but, hey..it's on my list!
When you say Spherical vision, do you mean 360 degree vision? I'm just a bit confused on that one.
Keep it up Michael, think you are doing fine.[:D]
Nay
Nay,
I remember when I first experienced spherical vision. I didn't know what
it was I was seeing. Let me describe it to you the best I can.
The majority of your view it the view directly in front of yourself. There
is a band, and I say band because that is what it is- a BAND of images at the
top of your view. In the middle of the band you can see directly behind
yourself like a small caption in the center of the band. And the left and
right sides of the band you can see to your left and right. I've always had
trouble navigating using the band I see because everything moves in the band
as I move. For instance if I move forward I not only see my surroundings getting
closer but I also see my surroundings moving away from me at the same time.
And there is left-right reversals to further confuse me. What I think is to my
left is actually to my right. This is because I'm looking to my left of the
band and knowing its a reflection of my right side because I can see behind
myself. Therefor what I see to my left it actually to my right. To stop the
confusion I use my whole entire body to turn left or right to see. Then I can
see what's directly in front of me in almost full view. What's directly above me
I've always had to turn to look or I get stuck looking at the floor. Having
spherical vision feels like having a compass on top of your head.
Sincerely,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
wow sounds really confusing..getting dizzy trying to imagine it x_X. One of the reasons I first started getting into AP was because ive always wanted to see what it was like in space. Your experiance was inspiring and i cant wait until i do AP into space :)
much love,
~*~mazdaaf~*~
Hehehehe, I'm with ya on that one Mazdaaf. I still can't wrap my mind around it.[:(] It does sound like if it was to happen to me though, I would certaintly not mistake what it was..[:D]
I've had 360 degree vision, where you can see all around at once. That is the closest comparison that I can come to.
And please...no blonde jokes. [:o)]
~Nay
quote:
I remember having spherical vision during both experiences. That rules out any remote possibility I was having an astral out-of-body experience. It proves I was having a real-time out-of-body experience.
Sorry, I still don't get it...
How can the spherical vision prove it was the RTZ?
Or maybe you were talking of another proof..?
Nagual,
When someone is in the real-time zone and perceiving with the real-time double,
spherical vision is apparent. Spherical vision is absent in astral projections
or lucid dreams. I can't be more straight forward than that.
Sincerely,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
quote:
I can't be more straight forward than that.
Yes, that's a bit too "straight forward"...
You base your proof of having an RTZ projection on spherical vision...
So, I asked you if you meant it's impossible to have spherical vision while APing?
You answer "I'm not saying anything that I haven't said" and that you only experienced spherical vision during real-time projections.
So, if it's not the case, I ask again what proof.
And you go back to the "spherical vision" proof...
A proves B because you only experienced A in B (which was proved by A).
Don't you agree something is wrong in your theory?
I get the feeling your not listening to me and your confused. Reread the
messages I've posted. If you still don't understand me, leave this topic
alone. This is a forum for "Memorable, unusual, and mystical Astral and
out-of-body experiences". Don't bother to further scrutinize me. There's
nothing wrong with my theory that spherical vision is only apparent in RTZ
projections and is absent in astral experiences ( including lucid dreams ).
I'm starting to understand that some people lack the ability to grasp and
understand these concepts regardless of how straight forward and clear I am.
Sincerely,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
Matthew,
I don't understand how it can be so evident that spherical vision would take place in RTZ only.
Maybe it's your experience, but i don't know how you can say that it should be such an obvious thing..it isn't.
If you have a theory about it or if it's just your experience, please tell us..
quote:
Don't bother to further scrutinize me. There's
nothing wrong with my theory
Sorry, I have a bad habbit of trying to understand things too hard...
I will leave your thread alone.
Frequent Flier,
It's my experience and my theory that the real-time projected double is a body
separate from the functionality of the physical body. The same, the astral
body is a body separate from the functionality of the physical body. These
subtle bodies exist in dimensions with laws of physics differing from
each other. The mechanics of how each subtle body operates and perceives
is radically different than one another. For example the real time double
when projected into the real-time zone possesses spherical vision. This is a
hall-mark sign that the participant is using the real-time body to perceive.
Each subtle body has it's own unique attributes and functionality in it's
dimension of origin. I believe the physical body to behave like a focusing
lens and concentrate subtle body awareness- making up physical waking
reality. To prove this to you the best I can please imagine for a moment
a beautiful landscape. This is a reflection perception of your astral body
actively perceiving in it's dimension of origin - the astral dimension. It's
perception is intact while your wide awake. Aside from this I'd like to point
out that the real-time double has spherical vision as one of it's attributes.
This attribute is totally different than any of the other subtle bodies
because it resides in a dimension of it's own origin. When in your physical body
have you ever had the feeling someone was behind you and then felt their
hand on your shoulder? This could be the real-time double perceiving for you
behind yourself and telling you someone is behind you with a feeling and then
a presence with a hand on your shoulder. Robert Bruce believes that the etheric
body which is tightly enmeshed with it's physical counterpart generating subtle
bodies. I don't believe this. It's my experience that the etheric body acts
as a home base or interface to access and transfer awareness into the dimensions
of origin where other human related subtle bodies exist. This has been my
experience.
Sincerely, your friend,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
I'm just curious though as too why so many people in the Astral and other dimensions can and have experienced spherical vision.
Are they imagining it then ?
Shedt,
If someone experiences spherical vision during an Astral Projection that
person *IS* imagining it. It has to do with the behavior of how the
astral body behaves in its dimension of origin. The astral body *IS* the body
of imagination. It's in fact imagining the behavior and attributes of the
real-time body in it's dimension of origin - the real time zone. I've
personally have never heard of this taking place, that is the astral body
possessing spherical vision. I would have to give an educated guess and
say it is possible but only as an imaginary dream like effect and reflecting
an imaginary thought form of how the real time body operates in it's
dimension of origin - the real time zone. I've used other subtle bodies
like the Mental body to perceive and travel and have never
observed spherical vision in that body, or for that fact any other than
the real time body.
Sincerely,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
MK, I believe what you say about your experience, so don't think I'm shooting you down or anything, but what you said to Nagual was quite rude... If someone had said that to me I know I'd feel bad. He/she was just trying to understand your theory on spherical vision. I think you should apologize, but that's just me.
-Kristina
yeah, this is your theory. I did not think it was cool how they were judging you, but here you are saying things like sperical vision is only somthing that the real time body can do naturally.
if i learned anything in life, it is too not say that somthing is always absolute, or to think that my way, either it be thought thinking or belief, is the only way.
-thats my 2 cents
These forums have given me the ability to share with you all my life's work.
When I was a child I was taught how to meditate at a school teaching
experimental education and since then I've learned much about the nature
of our multi-dimensional human consciousness. I believe I was born to meditate
and understand enlightenment. This may sound far fetched but it's true.
Forgive me for being so straight forward but we need people in these forums
with real experience to share. This is what these forums are for. I've learned
many things from these forums and from other peoples work in related subjects.
If it wasn't for the work of Robert Bruce I would not be able to put into
words my experiences due to the lack of fully understanding the nature of the
etheric body which I was confused about until I read his book "Astral Dynamics"
. When I learn things from these forums it contributes to my understanding
of who I am and the nature of how I function as a whole. I need these forums
as much as I need the work of others to help me understand what I've experienced
during the course of my life. I'm greatfull for the work others share in these
forums, the books I've read, my own experience and the works of Robert Bruce.
Forgive me for any misunderstandings, my purpose here is to share what I know
and learn from others.
Sincerely, your friend,
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca
Dear Matthew,
It's good to hear that you have lead a life so far that many of us did not have the chance to have.
Also it's nice of you to share your experiences, but just like anything in life you should not asume that your way or thought is the only way. You don't want to limit yourself...
Sometimes the compartmentalization of all these various bodies adds more confusion than clarity to the subject. Another possible scenario is that separation is an illusion; that projection is only possible because there is a unified field, a continuum of consciousness experiencing various frequencies so that it seems like there is a differetiation of bodies but in fact there is only one body continually expanding, and it's the limitation of our knowledge parameters that creates the illusion of separate bodies. By the way, I protest language that relegates dreaming to an inferior or less than real status.
I was a teenager when I began to get interested in projecting my real-time
body into space ( I called my real-time body my etheric body then ). On
one of my successful occasions I projected my real-time body directly into
space just outside the earths direct gravitational influence. I was looking
directly at mother earth when from my side a huge boulder sized piece of
space rock floated past. It hit the earths gravitational influence just
below my altitude and hit an impossible speed and began burning up. It looked
like the starship enterprise going into warp speed into earth atmosphere from
slow motion as it entered earths gravitational influence. This was one of my
most awe struck moments. From all around me I started noticing all kinds of
space debris, mostly rocks and boulders, float past and burn up in earths
atmosphere. I awoke thinking there's a lot of material entering earths
atmosphere and burning up.
On one other successful occasion I projected into deep space. The moment I
gazed into it's darkness I began feeling myself stretching in all directions.
Like I was expanding to find the walls of a room or the like. I couldn't
stand the feeling and I aborted the experience to awaken and vomit on my floor.
Some people say they can sustain their consciousness while in deep space. I
know I cannot be far away from mother earth without waking up sick to my
stomach. It's vast out there believe me.
Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca