I've been listening to a lot of Robert Bruce interviews, and I find myself a little bit annoyed with the fact that he seems to think the hardest part of Astral Projection is remembering it. He spends the entire interviews talking about how to remember your AP. Here are some direct quotes from him:
1."Astral Projection itself is childs play. It's very easy to learn. The real difficulty is in remembering your Astral Projection"
2."Your first 5 out of body experiences or so, don't stay out longer than 10 seconds. Just look at your hands, they will melt. Then savagely, passionately jump back into your body screaming MY HANDS MELTED! Then write down these key words, then write down the entire experience. If you don't, you will definitely forget it"
3."20% of the work is getting out of your body, 80% of the work is simply remembering your experience"
So I understand that writing down every AP experience is definitely necessary, it's a smart idea to shout key words as you re-enter, and that remembering your experiences is probably a challenge for sure. But 80% of the work of AP is just not to forget it all immediately? That can't be accurate.
I've read and listened to A LOT of expert projectors talk about AP, and never once have I heard anyone talk about this issue. Which leads me to believe that Robert Bruce's opinion on this may be a bit over the top. I remember most of my dreams, I can remember my 1 Lucid Dream like it happened yesterday, in great detail. You can't tell me that if I consciously project out of my body and go visit Mt. Everest or something, that I will immediately forget all about it when I get back into my body. Especially if OBE's are just as real and vivid as waking reality, like everyone says.
It makes me wonder if Robert Bruce's advice here applies more to people in their old age, like 60's and up. Because I can't possibly imagine an experience as amazing as being in the Astral Realms and meeting spirit beings and such being difficult to remember. I'd imagine it would be impossible to forget.
I don't know about Robert Bruce, but remembering your projections and even your dreams requires you to place more importance upon the action. This is how memory works, PERIOD.
I wrote the following about this process a couple years back for my website.
http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/08/23/remembering-our-non-physical-adventures/
I have a theory... it revolves around how to remember our experiences (dreams, astral, etc...).
Take a look at how you remember things in this physical reality. If you don't add a certain amount of importance to any given event in your life, your chances of remembering everything in full detail is pretty minute. Likewise, this holds true for your dreams (lucid or otherwise). If you believe your dreams are nothing special, that they're not important, then you're probably not going to remember them. You're probably not even going to have that base level of awareness in order to experience them.
How do you solve this problem? How do you give importance to something like this? You have to prove it to your subconscious mind... change your attitude about wanting to remember your experiences. A dream journal is the absolute best method I can think of to do this.
Work on trying to convincing yourself to place more importance upon your dream time journeys! It'll take some time, but the more you can prove to yourself that these events are important to you, the more you'll begin to remember them. Also, don't be lazy and write down whatever you remember immediately upon waking, because you will forget things really quickly. The more you do this, the less you'll forget!
He does have a point. You can have extremely vivid experiences--be totally aware of everything while there, and then in one moment on reentry, it disappears. I take mental notes of everything I experience as I experience it, and then review it all step be step after I'm back, then go back to sleep and journal in the morning. That works very well for me. Sometimes there are a few memory gaps even then, but I get almost all of it.
Quote from: soarin12 on April 24, 2014, 01:52:53
He does have a point. You can have extremely vivid experiences--be totally aware of everything while there, and then in one moment on reentry, it disappears. I take mental notes of everything I experience as I experience it, and then review it all step be step after I'm back, then go back to sleep and journal in the morning. That works very well for me. Sometimes there are a few memory gaps even then, but I get almost all of it.
I totally give him that he has a point. I'm sure there is a definite challenge in remembering. But am I right in saying that his interpretation of how difficult it is to remember (or how easy it is to forget) is a bit overblown? I mean there's just no way its that easy to forget these kind of experiences.
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 24, 2014, 02:48:22
I totally give him that he has a point. I'm sure there is a definite challenge in remembering. But am I right in saying that his interpretation of how difficult it is to remember (or how easy it is to forget) is a bit overblown? I mean there's just no way its that easy to forget these kind of experiences.
It's not difficult to remember if you have a working technique in order to remember (like mine I described above) but he's right that it is VERY easy to forget. It's not the same as remembering something in the physical. There's some kind of mechanism in your brain that causes you to forget--even really vivid, aware, 'unforgettable' experiences. So he's right. It is that easy to forget. The answer--Have a working technique for memory.
Oh, and there will be some experiences that for what ever reason, are easy to remember and others aren't. Like you said, you had no problem remembering yours, and I've had ones I had no trouble remembering, but you will definitely run into some that just disappear on you, and then you say 'Ok, I'd better start working on a memory technique.' You'll understand this as you have more of them.
Quote from: soarin12 on April 24, 2014, 01:52:53
He does have a point. You can have extremely vivid experiences--be totally aware of everything while there, and then in one moment on reentry, it disappears. I take mental notes of everything I experience as I experience it, and then review it all step be step after I'm back, then go back to sleep and journal in the morning. That works very well for me. Sometimes there are a few memory gaps even then, but I get almost all of it.
Excellent!
All that extra attention you're giving your experience is the "placing importance" upon it! That's a win! :)
Quote from: soarin12 on April 24, 2014, 02:57:57
It's not difficult to remember if you have a working technique in order to remember (like mine I described above) but he's right that it is VERY easy to forget. It's not the same as remembering something in the physical. There's some kind of mechanism in your brain that causes you to forget--even really vivid, aware, 'unforgettable' experiences. So he's right. It is that easy to forget. The answer--Have a working technique for memory.
Makes sense. I think I'll probably find it easier to remember than Robert Bruce puts on, but I know I'll still need to be purposeful about recording and remembering these. Do you think the specific difficulty with remembering has to do with the "mind split" effect of your brain wanting to remember lets say a dream your having instead?
So basically you just take mental notes of everything as it happens and then record it as soon as you get back? That seems easy enough. That's probably what I would do naturally anyways.
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 24, 2014, 03:49:38
Makes sense. I think I'll probably find it easier to remember than Robert Bruce puts on, but I know I'll still need to be purposeful about recording and remembering these. Do you think the specific difficulty with remembering has to do with the "mind split" effect of your brain wanting to remember lets say a dream your having instead?
So basically you just take mental notes of everything as it happens and then record it as soon as you get back? That seems easy enough. That's probably what I would do naturally anyways.
I'm no expert on the brain so I couldn't really say. I have had long strings of conscious projections, like three or four in a row, and I will always remember the last one and maybe the first, but forget the in between ones. Even if I haven't slept and had any dreams, and do a conscious projection, and reenter the physical and review my experience immediately, there are times when I have had huge memory gaps. Something just wipes it away on reentry, it seems like. I have read many posts by Szaxx on this memory phenomenon. Maybe he could explain it more technically?
Yep, just take mental notes as you go --all the details. It is easy. Just don't take anything for granted and you'll do great.
Robert Bruce does have a point and an extremely valid one. Xanth has the same point too.
I'll give you an example.
You are going to the shop for yourself to pick up 'something nice' to eat. You don't know as you leave what it is. You're going to see whats in the store then choose.
As you leave a friend asks you to pick up 7 items.
Now the problem starts.
If you get the items first you'll likely have all 7 in the basket. But you don't do this. You were getting something for yourself and gave this PRIORITY.
While thinking and searching around the shelves you'll automatically remember what you've seen while looking for something more tasty.
After several mins, you have selected YOUR items.
Then the list given...
You'll find it very difficult to recall these immediately.
It's how your mindset is initially. If you have an experience thats fast paced and totally enthralling you'll recall most of it due to your awareness being switched fully on. A dream is far less influential and these are generally giving you less excitement.
As dreams are, well, dreams, they get little attention as you wake. The daily routine gets precedence and the dream is lost.
This is normal and inherent within us so it's naturally applied to all experiences.
The subconcious needs to be activated by tokens so you can recall the events better. Once you do this 'aka dream journal'
your memory is recalled in blocks. Write them down then afterwards put them in order. Doing this will create a chronological order thus activating your subconcious to reveal more.
Your recall by doing this is increased drastically then the finer details get remembered too.
It can take weeks to find triggers that open up more memories so your recall is close to 100%.
To help, anything that sticks out in the experience can be remembered as it occurs by pondering upon it. These snippets really help in the overall recall. They'll be thing's like leaning on a wall and falling through it. Totally non physical so they stick. It's this difference of physics that you'll bring back once awake.
I have a very good memory and rarely write anything down upon waking. These triggers come into action during the afternoon and it's then when they get scribed in mnemonic form. On average I'd say waking gives 0-25% recall generally. In the same afternoon this can be 80%+ once the triggers activate the recall.
The key aspect is to remember things during the experience that you'll do normally during the day. Related to them of course, colour of a wall or a smell for example.
Anecdotally speaking, if I don't verbally say something to myself several times (increasing the importance placed upon it [the phrase I want to remember]), then the chances of me forgetting it are greatly increased.
Quote from: Szaxx on April 24, 2014, 07:04:47
Robert Bruce does have a point and an extremely valid one. Xanth has the same point too.
I'll give you an example.
You are going to the shop for yourself to pick up 'something nice' to eat. You don't know as you leave what it is. You're going to see whats in the store then choose.
As you leave a friend asks you to pick up 7 items.
Now the problem starts.
If you get the items first you'll likely have all 7 in the basket. But you don't do this. You were getting something for yourself and gave this PRIORITY.
While thinking and searching around the shelves you'll automatically remember what you've seen while looking for something more tasty.
After several mins, you have selected YOUR items.
Then the list given...
You'll find it very difficult to recall these immediately.
It's how your mindset is initially. If you have an experience thats fast paced and totally enthralling you'll recall most of it due to your awareness being switched fully on. A dream is far less influential and these are generally giving you less excitement.
As dreams are, well, dreams, they get little attention as you wake. The daily routine gets precedence and the dream is lost.
This is normal and inherent within us so it's naturally applied to all experiences.
The subconcious needs to be activated by tokens so you can recall the events better. Once you do this 'aka dream journal'
your memory is recalled in blocks. Write them down then afterwards put them in order. Doing this will create a chronological order thus activating your subconcious to reveal more.
Your recall by doing this is increased drastically then the finer details get remembered too.
It can take weeks to find triggers that open up more memories so your recall is close to 100%.
To help, anything that sticks out in the experience can be remembered as it occurs by pondering upon it. These snippets really help in the overall recall. They'll be thing's like leaning on a wall and falling through it. Totally non physical so they stick. It's this difference of physics that you'll bring back once awake.
I have a very good memory and rarely write anything down upon waking. These triggers come into action during the afternoon and it's then when they get scribed in mnemonic form. On average I'd say waking gives 0-25% recall generally. In the same afternoon this can be 80%+ once the triggers activate the recall.
The key aspect is to remember things during the experience that you'll do normally during the day. Related to them of course, colour of a wall or a smell for example.
Great info here, thanks Szaxx! I'm hoping to have my first real projection any day now, so I will definitely take this advice and apply it when I do.
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 24, 2014, 15:57:12
Great info here, thanks Szaxx! I'm hoping to have my first real projection any day now, so I will definitely take this advice and apply it when I do.
You've had "fake" projections then? :-)
Quote from: Xanth on April 24, 2014, 16:11:22
You've had "fake" projections then? :-)
LOL yes actually. Well what I would describe as "fake projections" although I know there is no such thing. If you go to my "I DID IT...almost" thread you'll see what I mean.
ROFL fake projections.
I've heard it all now.
I found this amusing, I obviously know your present level and you are very close too.
Repeat after me, "Im not scared of dropping all physical body awareness no matter how deadly it APPEARS. I know its perfectly safe and a fear test is all it is preventing my exit. I'm wiser now and WILL SUCCEED."
Use this before you try again and understand the words plus the feeling you'll have once these simple steps are followed.
That will increase your intent and drive your focus away from the meatsack.
It's about remembering BEFORE the exit too. :wink:
Quote from: Szaxx on April 24, 2014, 21:30:25
ROFL fake projections.
I've heard it all now.
I found this amusing, I obviously know your present level and you are very close too.
Fake Projection, isn't that "False Awakenings" brother, lol! :-D
Quote from: Szaxx on April 24, 2014, 21:30:25
ROFL fake projections.
I've heard it all now.
I found this amusing, I obviously know your present level and you are very close too.
Repeat after me, "Im not scared of dropping all physical body awareness no matter how deadly it APPEARS. I know its perfectly safe and a fear test is all it is preventing my exit. I'm wiser now and WILL SUCCEED."
Use this before you try again and understand the words plus the feeling you'll have once these simple steps are followed.
That will increase your intent and drive your focus away from the meatsack.
It's about remembering BEFORE the exit too. :wink:
LOL I know there is no such thing, it just feels that way since I haven't gotten completely out of body yet. I should probably change my mindset on that one, but anyway.
Now that I've experienced the suffocating feeling and such I will be better equipped to handle it next time. I will repeat that affirmation this morning when I project again and hopefully it'll get in my head.
Or better yet, hopefully I won't even have the suffocating feeling next time and I'll just pop right out :)
I haven't really tested this method yet but i once read , that while in your astral body and right before ending the projection if you say "I will remember every detail about this projection" with the intent to remember that projection than clearly you will remember your projection.Again intent is clearly the key to all of this.Plan B is of course the most obvious which is to write every little detail down immediately after an astral projection.
Quote from: JesusGonzalez on April 26, 2014, 03:57:38
I haven't really tested this method yet but i once read , that while in your astral body and right before ending the projection if you say "I will remember every detail about this projection" with the intent to remember that projection than clearly you will remember your projection.Again intent is clearly the key to all of this.Plan B is of course the most obvious which is to write every little detail down immediately after an astral projection.
You can place that intent at any point while you retain those memories. The best way to enact that intent is to.... WRITE IT DOWN. :-)
Yes, a journal... a journal *is* the result of your intent.
I wrote down here long ago how I do it when I return from a longer experience:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_dreams/trouble_remembering_lucid_dreams-t33962.0.html;msg280410#msg280410
8-)