Projecting on drugs

[fletcher93]

If someone accidentally has his first OBE/AP while on a dissociative drug and marijuana, (Whom has been practicing meditation for a couple weeks for specifically OBE and Projection), can this inhibit their future ability to project while in a sober trance state? What if the continue to project on drugs?

[lee46]

If someone accidentally has his first OBE/AP while on a dissociative drug and marijuana

how can you tell is real when these induce to hallucinations?

Got this from wiki:
Dissociatives are a class of psychoactive drugs which are said to reduce or block signals to the conscious mind from other parts of the brain.[1] Although many kinds of drugs are capable of such action, dissociatives are unique in that they do so in such a way that they produce hallucinogenic effects, which may include sensory deprivation, dissociation, hallucinations, and dream-like states or trances.[2] Some which are nonselective in action and affect the dopamine [3] and/or opioid[4] systems may be capable of inducing euphoria. Many dissociatives have general depressant effects and can produce sedation, respiratory depression, analgesia, anesthesia, and ataxia, as well as cognitive and memory impairment and amnesia.

What if the continue to project on drugs?

I'm sure they would end up pretty messed up

[zareste]

Yeah, that's Wikipedia for you

Some of the great shamans use drugs for a while, and then learn to use their abilities without the drugs. It's like training wheels.

[kurtykurt42]

There are a few 'drugs' that will help but I just wish they weren't all illegal... Damn government doesn't want you gettin good at astral projection! 

[lee46]

Yeah, that's Wikipedia for you

Some of the great shamans use drugs for a while, and then learn to use their abilities without the drugs. It's like training wheels.

Sorry I forgot about that one, it is actually true, here in Mexico some natives are complaining that the tourists are taking all of their "peyote" that they use for their rituals, but as he asked to continue using drugs and could get dependent on them, I'm guessing that wouldn't end up so nice.

I still don't trust drugs that well because some people can get easily addicted to them, is hard to tell.

There are a few 'drugs' that will help but I just wish they weren't all illegal... Damn government doesn't want you gettin good at astral projection! 

LOL!

[Ignazio]

If you start using drugs for Astral Projection, It CAN become addicting because your conscious grows on it, and therefore making you believe that you need that "drug" to project.

But for Astral Projection, I think Marijuana is one of the best "soft" Drugs out there.

[Greytraveller]

Hi fletcher

To answer your question -- the continued use of drugs can inhibit inducing an OBE from a normal, non altered, state of mind. Occasional use of drugs will probably have no effect on OBE inducement. Of course much depends on what type of drug(s) are used and how they are used ( recreationally at parties or in a shamanic set and setting.) Also be advised that drugs affect different people in different ways. Always be responsible and know what you are using and how it should affect you before using it.

Regards 
Grey

[Xanth]

If you "need" drugs to do this... then you need more practice time.

[personalreality]

A friend and fellow podcaster (I don't do my podcast anymore though) shared a brilliant analogy concerning this very topic.  Kind of.  

First I would like to note that shamans do ingest particular mixtures of plant extracts (DMT especially) to achieve OBE for the betterment of their tribe.  HOWEVER!!!  They also use things like rhythmic drumming to induce trance states and achieve "shamanic journeys".  A shamanic journey can be just as meaningful as an OBE.  The shamanic journey is where an individual meets their power animal or the totem animal of the tribe for example.  But one should also be aware of how the use of "drugs" is handled by a shaman.  The cultivation and preparation of the extract is just as important as the actual journey it induces.  They understand that they are being given a gift from earth and that deserves reverence.  For an easily accessible example read some of the Carlos Castaneda books.  Don Juan talks about his smoking mixture as his ally, his personal mixture that has power individually connected to him.  It's very different from the way we might go to a music festival, buy a bag of shrooms, and trip out at a phish show.  Even if you are the most spiritual person you know, I still highly doubt that you have undertaken the process of journeying with the help of a plant ally like a shaman does.  I'm not saying it's bad or wrong, not at all.  I'm just saying that the experience won't be the same.

The shamans of the world don't rely on just their plant allies though.  That is the most important point I think.  People always say, "Shamans do it!" and that's true, but they also do a lot of other things.  Anyone interested should read a book called "Darkness Visible", its about darkness meditation.  When a person goes without light for a period of time their brain stops making serotonin and starts making DMT instead.  Talk about a trip.  There are retreats (using the MindFold) where people are in complete darkness for weeks at a time.  In some cultures the shaman's apprentice (chosen at birth) lives in a cave, cut off from light, with the shaman until they turn 19 or 20.  It gives them a very unique perception of the outside world.

Anyway, the anecdote.  Learning to have OBEs and other altered state experiences is like climbing a mountain, the elusive OBE perched, waiting at the top.  As you train you are traveling up the mountain, learning the terrain, making a map of your journey.  It is arduous and challenging, but your muscles are strengthened and your wit is sharpened.  You gain not only knowledge of the mountain and the environment but you also learn about yourself, the skills you have and the skills that you need to develop.  

When someone uses "drugs" to achieve OBEs they are essentially putting on a jet pack and shooting to the top of the mountain.  But because they haven't taken the journey on foot, they are not familiar with the terrain of the mountain and thus don't know how to navigate.  So, sometimes they overshoot the mountain altogether and wind up 'somewhere' else.  Sometimes they do reach the summit with little trouble, but they haven't gained the skills that their 'flightless' counterpart has developed.  So, once they achieve that OBE they are lost and scared in a place that is perceptually uncomfortable and unknown.  Every once and a while though, someone straps on their DMT Jetpack and they make it safely to the OBE peak and they have a brilliant life changing experience and then they float easily back down, all is well.  But not really.  Because once you've had one OBE you want to have more, but unlike the traveler who went by foot, the jetpacker has no idea how to get back up the mountain without their jetpack.  So they may feel accomplished for reaching the top once, but now they are stuck at the bottom pining over memories of their trip with no idea how to get back.  Luckily for them, those who took their time and climbed the mountain, learned her curves and cliffs, and strengthened their skill set are often ready for another journey up the mountain when they bump into jetpack jimmy, pacing anxiously around the first mountainside cliff trying to find the best place to start.  They can offer ol' jetpack jimmy the wisdom that comes only from experience.  

So, in a way, the Jetpacker has indeed hindered his/her ability to journey up the mountain on foot because s/he has tasted the summit and now their mind is clouded with the memories of an experience that is very different from the one that they're attempting now.  Their perception of the OBE has become colored by the jetpack ride and an obvious as it may seem to some, the jetpacker might not realize that going up on foot is nothing like using the jetpack and the skills one needs for a jetpack ride are pretty much useless for hiking up a mountain.

It's good that you experienced an OBE because you've given yourself validation that can be a strong motivating force for further exploration.  But for true success, you ought to start from scratch and disregard your drug experience.  Write it down in a journal, but don't use that as the basis for comparison in your drug-free OBE pursuit.  

[fletcher93]

Hello again, and thank you all for your input, especially you personalreality i feel like i can relate to your whole 'jetpack jimmy' story the best. i have seen now that OBEs are a valid, real thing and now that i am sure, i will train harder and surely reach the summit in due time.

[Xanth]

A friend and fellow podcaster (I don't do my podcast anymore though) shared a brilliant analogy concerning this very topic.  Kind of.  

First I would like to note that shamans ....... yourself validation that can be a strong motivating force for further exploration.  But for true success, you ought to start from scratch and disregard your drug experience.  Write it down in a journal, but don't use that as the basis for comparison in your drug-free OBE pursuit.  

VERY well put.