So... did i project or was i dreaming?

[ObewanaBe]

So i was pretty tired and decided to throw on a 90 minute binural beat. About 40 minutes in my body started to vibrate. I was pretty conscious at the time also. This is where i was confused, i left my body and flew out my window only to make it above my house until i was shot back into my body, still vibrating. Take note as i was doing this i still heard the binural beats even when i was outside of my body. As i came back to my body, i was still ready to leave my body again, it was still vibrating. So i left my physical  body again and walked through my doorway and i saw my brother who i tried to walk through but i couldn't, and he wasn't even home at the time which is a sign that i was dreaming. But it also felt so real. I also remember unplugging my headphones from my computer so vividly and then i "woke up" and the headphones were still on my head with the binural beats playing.

So what was it? Was it a lucid dream? Was i dreaming about astral projecting? The vibrations were so intense and i was fully conscious when they were happening, im confused.

[Volgerle]

makes no difference

[Greytraveller]

Hallo ObewanaBe
From the description that you provided I will hazard an educated guess that those Were Both OBEs. Binaural beats are a popular method of getting into the right mental state from which to go out of body. Vibrations are a common phenomenon associated with OBEs. And both experiences began with you exiting your physical body.
And, oh, BTW it DOES matter as OBEs and lucid dreams are not the same. There are similarities yet there are Very important differences between them . Many people believe that OBEs and LDs Are the same thing. That's fine, no big deal. I believe that OBEs differ from LDs in that the consciousness separates and exists outside of the physical body during an OBE. Just thought you should know that there is a big debate about this issue.

Regards 
Grey

[Lionheart]

And, oh, BTW it DOES matter as OBEs and lucid dreams are not the same. There are similarities yet there are Very important differences between them . Many people believe that OBEs and LDs Are the same thing. That's fine, no big deal. I believe that OBEs differ from LDs in that the consciousness separates and exists outside of the physical body during an OBE. Just thought you should know that there is a big debate about this issue.

Perhaps to stave off the argument we should all just agree to use the term "Astral Travel", since in the end that's the true goal!  
Hey Grey, just a quick question, when was the last time you had a Lucid Dream that you were sleeping in your bed? All my Lucid Dreams take place out of bed, bedroom, most of the times out of my home. Where is the Consciousness then?

[Greytraveller]

Greetings Lionheart
You wrote,

Perhaps to stave off the argument we should all just agree to use the term "Astral Travel", since in the end that's the true goal!

Yes, very good idea. I agree 100%.  
Regarding lucid dreams occurring while I am in bed. That happens to me.... Never!. So where does ones' consciousness go??? To the dream plane is my best answer. That brings us to the next logical question, viz, "What is the dream plane?".
I theorize that the dream plane is basically what Carl Jung called the collective consciousness (or collective subconscious, I can't remember which). Anyways the dream plane = collective consciousness is basically a shared state of consciousness shared by all living beings on this planet. It is the sum of thoughts and feelings and so is both subjective and objective. Meaning it is both created by you and me (= subjective) but is also much larger than any one individual or group of individuals (= objective).
The dream plane differs from the astral plane (or ethereal plane).
And here is where I will stop as this is theory and conjecture so I will prevent this post from becoming dogmatic or preachy. (Except to add that during a dream or lucid dream the individual consciousness is on the dream plane while during an OBE or astral projection the consciousness is on the astral plane  .)

Regards  
Grey

[Xanth]

ObewanaBe,

First, answer me this (and anyone else can answer as well):  What exactly is "dreaming"?

[Bedeekin]

Maybe a unconscious focus upon the doings of your nonphysical self as it plays its part in the NPMR... Lucidity is simply... 'being' that nonphysical self.

The same thing can be said for daydreaming. Same thing... only on a less cognisant level.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Maybe an essential and natural action undertaken to provide the necessary functional knowledge of the astral upon termination of physical existance.

[Astral-Trea]

Hallo ObewanaBe
From the description that you provided I will hazard an educated guess that those Were Both OBEs. Binaural beats are a popular method of getting into the right mental state from which to go out of body. Vibrations are a common phenomenon associated with OBEs. And both experiences began with you exiting your physical body.
And, oh, BTW it DOES matter as OBEs and lucid dreams are not the same. There are similarities yet there are Very important differences between them . Many people believe that OBEs and LDs Are the same thing. That's fine, no big deal. I believe that OBEs differ from LDs in that the consciousness separates and exists outside of the physical body during an OBE. Just thought you should know that there is a big debate about this issue.

Regards 
Grey

So if these were obes, why would he see his brother who was not home and other inaccurate things?

[Xanth]

So if these were obes, why would he see his brother who was not home and other inaccurate things?

The mistake people make is that they believe they're experiencing this physical reality... the reality which we identify as the one which we're currently "awake" and experiencing right now.
All evidence points away from this belief.

At most, what we can probably say is that it's a "copy" of sorts... that's about as far as I'll entertain the notion that we experience this reality while "out of body".  It's a copy which has "reality fluctuations".  The "brother" in this case is one of those fluctuations.

[Greytraveller]

Hello Astral-Trea
In response to your question

So if these were obes, why would he see his brother who was not home and other inaccurate things?

Not all astral or ethereal counterparts of physical world locations are exact replicas. There are usually at least a few objects out of place, maybe in the wrong location or not there at all or maybe extra items added where none should be. Robert Bruce has termed such inconsistencies "Reality fluctuations".
ObewanaBe's brother May have been the creation of ObewanaBes mind, maybe a dream character. I'm not saying for sure that's what happen but it Is a possibility.

Regards 
Grey

[Astral-Trea]

Hello Astral-Trea
In response to your questionNot all astral or ethereal counterparts of physical world locations are exact replicas. There are usually at least a few objects out of place, maybe in the wrong location or not there at all or maybe extra items added where none should be. Robert Bruce has termed such inconsistencies "Reality fluctuations".
ObewanaBe's brother May have been the creation of ObewanaBes mind, maybe a dream character. I'm not saying for sure that's what happen but it Is a possibility.

Regards  
Grey

Hi thanks for the replies!  I am trying to get more active in the forum... I have read Robert Bruce's works and know what you are referring to... I guess I am still just trying to understand exactly how things work in the astral since I have not yet been able to conciously project yet.

[todd421757]

The mistake people make is that they believe they're experiencing this physical reality... the reality which we identify as the one which we're currently "awake" and experiencing right now.
All evidence points away from this belief.

I've had 4 OBE's where I know I was experiencing the physical reality without a doubt. Two of these OBE's my girlfriend can vouch that they are true.

[Bedeekin]

Yeah... I'm the same Todd... I have had many witnesses and personal verifications. But they are personal validations.. .well... shared between about 30 people/witnesses.

So it's not really a mistake. I can't deny it... but then maybe you need to experience it for it to enter into your belief system.

Maybe its a sort of 'reading' of the current state of PMR... like a reading or following of the 'data' stream that reality creates.

Either way... the quality of a RTZ projection is very different from one that takes place in the NMPR. Just my findings.

[Astral-Trea]

Yeah... I'm the same Todd... I have had many witnesses and personal verifications. But they are personal validations.. .well... shared between about 30 people/witnesses.

So it's not really a mistake. I can't deny it... but then maybe you need to experience it for it to enter into your belief system.

Maybe its a sort of 'reading' of the current state of PMR... like a reading or following of the 'data' stream that reality creates.

Either way... the quality of a RTZ projection is very different from one that takes place in the NMPR. Just my findings.

This is what I is so confusing to me.. some people who have alot of experience with RTZ projections say it is just like the physical world with no fluctuations, others say the opposite. I guess it just maybe depends on your vibration level at the time maybe is the only thing I can think of.

[Bedeekin]

There are sometimes fluctuations... but it feels somewhat like a very unstable place to be in when in RTZ. There is a tendency for a conscious drift into a less complete copy. The longer one stays 'out' (using the term lightly) the more prone they are to drifting into a fully immersive nonphysical reality.

those that do have RTZ will tell a different story than those that don't. Obviously, those that don't will formulate a theory that befits their own experiences to what seems logical within their belief frame. We all do.

You yourself said "I guess it just maybe depends on your vibration level at the time maybe is the only thing I can think of".

'Vibration level' is something you've probably heard of and so have arrived at a logical conclusion to your own question based upon your knowledge base.

But... anyway... this doesn't matter because you need to experience these things for yourself before you go taking several shades of information from several different people. You can only wonder though... I understand that.

[Xanth]

I've had 4 OBE's where I know I was experiencing the physical reality without a doubt. Two of these OBE's my girlfriend can vouch that they are true.

Awesome!  Truths are best when they're personal.