spontaneous RTZ ??

[shaman]

I once had (24 years ago) a spontaneous OBE while sleeping straight into the physical plane...

I was sleeping at my sister place, and she arranged a bed in the balcony, since there were not enough room for all of us there. I fell asleep on my back. Then I had this experience that at the same moment I interpreted as being a dream that I was dying. I felt vibrations over all my body and started to fly up. I could see/feel myself down under me, laying on the bed. Then I started drifting to the living room where my deceased grand-ma was sitting quietly, busy doing something that I cannot remember. She did not pay too much attention to me and I did not pay to much attention to her. Then I think it all turned into a dream which I forgot. The next morning I was sure I dreamed (a lucid dream) that I was dying because I "went" out of my body.It is only much later, when I read about all that, that I realised I had a spontaneous OBE while sleeping in the real physical plane.

[Frère]

Then do you have to check for evidential data to say that you definately were in RTZ, or would it be obvious, and does it need to be free of any abnormal things..... ??

[shaman]

The lighting was as if there were some lights on, even though all the lights must have been off at that time. My grand mother for sure was not in the physical. I did not pay attention to the details, to be able to tell you (after almost a quater of a century!) if it was exactly the physical, or something slightly altered. From another OBE, this one volontary, I know that even in the physical plane, things don't look the way they are supposed to. The best is to make a check to find out how accurate it is. The best I can remember is that it was obviously the balcony, the living room and that the "abnormalities" were what I see as the lighting and the presence of a deceased family member. I do not remember seeing something obviously wrong. To conclude I would say it was obvioulsy the physical, as initially I saw myself on the bed under my floating astral self and I was obviously in the appartment of my sister, but there were some little "anomalies" as I mentioned.

Another thing, which has to do with the real physical world, and not another place, though another time, is a vivid and accurate premonitory dream (or more than one). Otherwise the premonitory dreams come usually in sign. But I remeber of one, where what I saw in the dream in the night was exactly the same picture I saw in the news of an event the next day. So I believe there I was in the physical again, but at a future time if I might say , more like a "flash" vision, rather than a dream with a story.

[beavis]

In a dream, you are already in astral, so it is likely you will still be there when you realize you are dreaming or change it to an OBE (same thing, with more awareness). I dont see why you couldnt go to RTZ right after that.

[Frère]

beavis then you must have a trick to go from lucid dream (astral) back to RTZ without coming back to physical body?

Actually in my dream, all started with hands helping me getting out of body in my room... so I may think I was actually projecting to RTZ, but I'm not sure if it was vivid enough (I remember a sure projection, that was hell of a lot more vivid)

[shaman]

Eh Frere,

Merci de ton message personel!

I havne't OBE for that many years, but only have got into it more recently (a couple of years). However, I have had some experiences long ago and more recently that I did not understood then and that only when going into the details of OBE/AP I understood as being linked to the subject. I had other experiences more related to premonitions and with time they have become more in the form of premonitory dreams. This is why I have turned more into the dream world than into other things. In that sens I explore more the astral realm through dreams than through voluntary OBEs - I had only a few of these. I have also concentrated more on the interpretation of dreams, symbolism (also for premonitory dreams). So I worked more passivlely if I might say, more autosuggestion. I also explore the border between asleep and awake, the hypnagonic state, where you are conscious and awake and are already able to access the world of the dream, astral... So the asnwer is NO, I haven't been OBE for 24 years, but since long ago I have had unvonluntary experiences related to OBE/AP. What really was a proof to me was the premonitory dreams, and that is what convinced me that there is more "on the other side" and that it is worse trying to explore.

Bien a toi!
Chamane Le Reveur

[Frère]

is it possible to have a spontaneous projection to RTZ during sleep, or are we bound to pop in astral planes?

I ask this because I had only one spontaneous projection, and many lucid dreams since I started some month ago to take this stuff seriously. And I wish to visit a distant town, which is very far away from me... this concern have even led me to have dreams, where I was projecting with help of external and invisible male hands, but my room had abnormalties when I came back, so I think it was a dream. I dreamed I got out, then flew thru the ceiling of my room, trying to reach orbit, but as I looked down, I felt vertigo, so was drained back to my room, and then I woke up... I keep having strange dreams, or lucid dreams related to the projection process, sometimes I end up believing I had a projection, and realising that my deeds were not what I would have done if I wasn't in a dream state... for example, searching for the person I want to meet in a school, rather than feeling for her straight away, or getting closer by flying to orbit. It's strange, because dreams are very vivid, and even sometimes partly or totaly lucid, but I never manage to achieve what are my real time goals...