The Astral Pulse

Hi! This is the reason why I decided to call myself "Summerlander" in forums like these:

Some time around 2009:

"I entered the Phase post vibrations to find myself in an erratic replica of my house where I entertained myself by creating some thought-form objects. There was a clock on the hallway wall which was different to the one in actuality. I touched this metaphysical device, wondering if it contained some sort of mechanism, and felt its solidity. Then I noticed light coming from the large hallway mirror. I went through it and encountered a being who stood as though in the transition between two worlds. This being was humanoid in shape and I could not determine its gender. I wasn't able to look at this character for long as I apparently shifted through the division marking the apparent dichotomy of two worlds after having entered the mirror-portal.

The entity smiled as I went through the mirror, and, on the other side, I found an unbelievable world! It had a serious emotional impact on me because it was so attractive and vibrant in colours. I also remember thinking: "I didn't imagine this". There were cottages and well-groomed trees that I was seeing from bird's eye view and I wondered who was inside. There was a vast magical forest adorned by rainbows and strange creatures flying over it. In the distance there was a golden city which seemed to blend with a multicoloured sunset sky where a vast river met the horizon. The smiling entity who stood between my illusory abode and this new and more settled mystical realm was nowhere to be seen now. It wasn't just a visual experience. As I beheld it I felt love, harmony and so much happiness. It was a fairytale land, magical and mysterious and so alive. I still can't find enough words to describe it.

Then I felt myself being pulled back as though I didn't belong there or like something had teased me with it. When I woke up I felt extremely sad because I was no longer there. I opened the windows in my room to look at our world. The trees, the houses and the sky of our world is nothing compared to what I'd seen. In comparison, our world looks somewhat like a decayed version of that vibrant wonderland. At the time I hadn't yet heard of the term "Summerland" which is used to refer to an afterlife world by Spiritualist traditions. Weeks later I flicked through a book about the afterlife by David Fontana at my local library and found descriptions of beautiful cities, forests, rainbows and cottages (this struck a cord with me) by both the living who experienced OOBEs and NDEs, and the dead who allegedly came through mediums to tell their loved ones all about where they were.

According to the book, not all souls were in a happy place, but "Summerland" came up a few times as the appropriate name for the harmonious colourful worlds that were being described. I've never been one to like or think of cottages and it struck me that I saw them before coming across similar descriptions of Summerland. After that, I pondered over the idea of having come across another plane of existence populated by non-physical beings as much the possibility that I accessed an imagined world from my deep unconscious - possibly a thought-form construct that thrived from childhood after having been exposed to fairytales. This profound Phase experience made me fond of cottages and trees. It was an ideal world of many wonderful things which could have easily come from an innocent child's imagination and developed ever since, especially in an artistic mind such as mine, rather than becoming obsolete."

- Summerlander's Journal

yea, summerland is a pagan name for the otherworlds.

I see. There was a lot going on in my experience but I've never really read much about Summerland apart from what was in the David Fontana book. I think it was called Is There An Afterlife? - The book also referred to it as an "Upper Astral plane" or the "Plane of Colour". The "Lower Astral" was also called "Plane of Illusion". There were other spiritual planes of existence mentioned like the "Plane of Pure Light" otherwise known as the "Mental Plane". And then there were other 'cosmic' planes above that. The New Age view seemed to be well-documented. OOBEs, NDEs and lucid dreams were mentioned, of course - it wouldn't be a good book about the afterlife without mentioning that phenomena otherwise.

After my experience I decided to do an art piece in tribute to the experience. I don't think it's even close to capturing what I saw let alone what I felt. It was the perfect cure to psychosis. It conveyed beauty perfectly and the harmony was incredible. One thing I forgot to mention in my diary is that things radiated music too. I should really add this to my journal. I still remember those sounds as though coming from a thousand flutes combined with the chirping of birds. Here's the picture, btw:

(http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af154/Arlindobatista/upperastralred1.jpg)

Thankyou for this Summerlander!!
That sounds amazing and I love the way you write so descriptive and with so much detail.
I always wonder where people get their usernames from lol

Thanks, urshebear! Feel free to share with us where you got yours from! :-)

I love that picture, dude... captures the mystical earthy aura perfectly. Have you tried to return there?

My username does have a little story behind it...

when my mum was pregnant with me she decided to call me Tempest but my dad had a dream that he had a newborn baby girl named Ursula and she could talk.
Anyway when I was born I cried out a really clear distinctive "mummy" my mum was really ticked cause she knew from that she had to name me Ursula :)

So later on my parents found out that Ursula means little she bear :D
Ive been seeing and talking to a bear in my dreams for as long as I can remember and sometimes when I project I see him sitting by my bed watching over me.

Still dont know what to make of it and I know it sounds crazy but I cant help but love him because he makes me feel safe and I think I do the same for him..

People sometimes call me "ursh" as a nickname so urshebear is a combo of my name and the meaning :)

yes that is a cool picture man...
i seen that over on AVers i think ya misses posted it(?), got the impression she did the picture, obviously not, you are good at ya pictures (art) no doubt about that, i've come across many artist that like to project and do things talked about on sites as this, so i looked into it around last year mmm interesting wonder if you know why, if not i'm sure you will one day...

good luck

love all

Wow your picture kinda gave me deja vu! I love it, its beautiful. It reminds me of a dream I had, I remember the three moons in a purple sky... one of my coolest dreams! trippy... :lol:

Quote from: Astral316 on June 11, 2011, 20:22:59
I love that picture, dude... captures the mystical earthy aura perfectly. Have you tried to return there?

Thanks! I tried to return there but ended up in random places that did not convey the same emotions and weren't as brilliant. :-(

Quote from: urshebear on June 11, 2011, 21:13:00
So later on my parents found out that Ursula means little she bear :D
Ive been seeing and talking to a bear in my dreams for as long as I can remember and sometimes when I project I see him sitting by my bed watching over me.

Still dont know what to make of it and I know it sounds crazy but I cant help but love him because he makes me feel safe and I think I do the same for him..

People sometimes call me "ursh" as a nickname so urshebear is a combo of my name and the meaning :)

That's cute, Ursh! :-)

(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk5j4obJ611qiqk68o1_500.gif)

Quote from: ether2 on June 11, 2011, 22:18:35
yes that is a cool picture man...
i seen that over on AVers i think ya misses posted it(?), got the impression she did the picture, obviously not, you are good at ya pictures (art) no doubt about that, i've come across many artist that like to project and do things talked about on sites as this, so i looked into it around last year mmm interesting wonder if you know why, if not i'm sure you will one day...

Yeah, it was originally posted on AVers. It seems that a lot of the people into OOBEs on AVers are artistic too. I' ve no idea if there is a connection there...quite possible! 8-)

Quote from: sonoraroach on June 12, 2011, 00:55:07
Wow your picture kinda gave me deja vu! I love it, its beautiful. It reminds me of a dream I had, I remember the three moons in a purple sky... one of my coolest dreams! trippy... :lol:

The sky was quite complex and multicoloured but pink and orange seemed to dominate. There was a lot going on...slightly confusing but beautiful to just take it all in or just to focus on a portion of the scenery. My drawing doesn't do it any justice to be frank. It is too deterministic, a travesty, a translation for the analytical mind or the waking self...it's a corrupt representation of what was experienced. I'm not sure if I'm getting across what I really mean but, something happened to me today which is sort of relevant and may serve as a weird example:

Today, at work, I was thinking about ways to improve memory. Then I imagined a scenario where I was being tested. In my imagination I was in a room and a person would come in wearing something that I would have to remember later. Another person would come in after that and I'd have to remember the details of what they were wearing too. I'd also have to remember their names and what order they came in. So I thought - how would I be able to remember it all? The answer came...I'd have to find a fun way to remember everything...

I started thinking that I could convert the memory into an interesting story where the people's names would be followed my nicknames that would match what they wore - example: Thomas Bluebow (blue bow/tie), and then Miss Amy Wineblouse (purple blouse) etc.

The story would develop with new subsequent characters as the "event" unfolds. This concept was devised in my head in a few seconds and I realised that, originally, in my mind, I had not thought of the details of the solution to improve memory. I had not thought of any specific names of people nor any type of clothing whatsoever. I merely thought this:

"TRIKKA TRENDY...PARA SHOOTER..."

Now this is what I found odd: "Trikka" is not even a name. "Trendy" is not a piece of clothing. When I generated this thought, it made perfect sense to me in my daydreaming mode and I knew its translation to be exactly what I've stated above:

(http://interesting%20story%20where%20the%20people's%20names%20would%20be%20followed%20my%20nicknames%20that%20would%20match%20what%20they%20wore%20-%20example:%20Thomas%20Bluebow%20(blue%20bow/tie),%20%5Bi%5Dand%20then%20Miss%5B/i%5D%20Amy%20Wineblouse%20(purple%20blouse)%20etc.)

But when I went back to reflect on the origins of the fun thought-solution, I found that it was less meaningful or almost lost in translation. I started to work out why "TRIKKA", why "TRENDY, "PARA" and "SHOOTER"...

Trikka could convey the idea of "trick" and tricks can provide solutions. Trendy, from "trend" can relate to clothing but also, it could mean exactly that - a trend - as in, "get used to applying this trick/method" in order to improve memory.

Para Shooter was translated to "parachute", which could convey a solution to stay out of the trouble of forgetting. Parachuting to safety can bring a sigh of relief.

I started to realise that the strange thoughts TRIKKA TRENDY PARA SHOOTER were archetypal and conveys the whole thing that I had in mind. It seems to be formulated in a type of consciousness of high entropy where abstract ideas manifest and can mean so many things but it eventually settles into low entropy consciousness where it means and becomes one thing only and thus more restricted! It becomes finite.

Perhaps there are levels of reality with infinite potential and closer to the abstract consciousness. Perhaps it all starts there and when we enter the Phase we can clearly see/experience these other potentials - the unborn reality! This could also explain why certain nonsensical dreams seem to make sense while we are in them but are hard to translate in the waking state or are deemed to be completely absurd.

I had a fairytale-like experience like yours once and I'll always remember it too.

FYI there's a charming town named Summerland next door to the what I think is the most beautiful place in the world (Santa Barbara, California). It was named by the Spiritualist community that settled there at the turn of the century. It's aptly named since it's a magical area.

Nice, so that's where your nickname came from  :-D

It does look like some place out of a fairy tale. I can't wait to have my own experience visiting a place like that.

My name in the forum is related to the oldest LD (and possible projection) I recall. I was standing in my balcony, and the whole world outside was in complete darkness. Right in front of me I saw huge bolts of lightning, thousands of them. They were almost striking me, but I was standing still there, observing peacefully.

I saw lightning again in other dreams, and whenever it appears, everything else just stops and it feels like I'm witnessing a divine message. The feeling is powerful but not ominous, and I'm always calm during and after the event.

I like your memory "trick" there, summerland! I get what you mean about dreams making sense and being absurd upon waking.... I also like the "unborn reality" analogy...this is the reason  I love this site, new ideas like that are great for my "learning experience" and they make me think beyond the limits. Very cool! I like all the posts I have read of yours, good stuff. I remember an awesome dream I had as a kid of a surrealistic beautiful scene with a silver winding road going up a mountain that appeared to have a beautiful temple at the top of the steep mountain. I tried to draw the dream but like you say, you cant capture it all, but it was still a cool picture, I wish I still had it. One reason I love your drawing is that it reminds me of that picture I drew years ago (I would seriously like put your picture on my wall if I had a copy :)) I think many great works of art were inspired by dreams, along with inventions, music, poems, etc. Dreamers are creative people in many ways... I think that creating a way to strengthen your memories of dreams would probably result in a flood of great ideas and creativity.... wow...were on to something...

Yeah, the Summerland does indeed refer to the nethers. It was taken up again by the 19th century Spiritualists and Theosophists, and in vogue well into mid 20th century.

My name is the street I once lived on  :wink:

Quote from: Jilt on June 12, 2011, 19:45:11
I had a fairytale-like experience like yours once and I'll always remember it too.

FYI there's a charming town named Summerland next door to the what I think is the most beautiful place in the world (Santa Barbara, California). It was named by the Spiritualist community that settled there at the turn of the century. It's aptly named since it's a magical area.

Cool! Do you reckon these fairy-tale worlds are collective BSTs? I really felt like it wasn't mine. If Frank Kepple's model is correct, these worlds could have their existence in Focus 3 oC, possibly "up the tree" near Focus 4 - who knows. Maybe there are many "summerlands".

Quote from: Lightning on June 13, 2011, 00:07:54
My name in the forum is related to the oldest LD (and possible projection) I recall. I was standing in my balcony, and the whole world outside was in complete darkness. Right in front of me I saw huge bolts of lightning, thousands of them. They were almost striking me, but I was standing still there, observing peacefully.

I saw lightning again in other dreams, and whenever it appears, everything else just stops and it feels like I'm witnessing a divine message. The feeling is powerful but not ominous, and I'm always calm during and after the event.

That's cool! You remind me of this:

(http://images.zap2it.com/movies//33343/33343_ba.jpg)

Quote from: sonoraroach on June 13, 2011, 01:38:14
I like your memory "trick" there, summerland! I get what you mean about dreams making sense and being absurd upon waking.... I also like the "unborn reality" analogy...this is the reason  I love this site, new ideas like that are great for my "learning experience" and they make me think beyond the limits. Very cool! I like all the posts I have read of yours, good stuff. I remember an awesome dream I had as a kid of a surrealistic beautiful scene with a silver winding road going up a mountain that appeared to have a beautiful temple at the top of the steep mountain. I tried to draw the dream but like you say, you cant capture it all, but it was still a cool picture, I wish I still had it. One reason I love your drawing is that it reminds me of that picture I drew years ago (I would seriously like put your picture on my wall if I had a copy :)) I think many great works of art were inspired by dreams, along with inventions, music, poems, etc. Dreamers are creative people in many ways... I think that creating a way to strengthen your memories of dreams would probably result in a flood of great ideas and creativity.... wow...were on to something...

Oh, man! I'm so glad I wasn't misunderstood there! Yes, these sites are great for sharing ideas and views! It's been a learning experience for me from the beginning. Also, you are spot on with the art thing...Salvador Dali is a blatant example! :lol: Also, my most recent art was influenced by my OOBEs. Btw, I'm planning to have my OOBE-art feature in the book that I'm currently writing, so, when I eventually publish it I will let you know - Summerland will definitely be there. :wink:

Quote from: Stillwater on June 13, 2011, 02:42:04
Yeah, the Summerland does indeed refer to the nethers. It was taken up again by the 19th century Spiritualists and Theosophists, and in vogue well into mid 20th century.

My name is the street I once lived on  :wink:

Stillwater Street or Road? Wow...it sounds so Buddhist! LOL! :lol:

Quote from: Summerlander on June 13, 2011, 13:24:41
Cool! Do you reckon these fairy-tale worlds are collective BSTs? I really felt like it wasn't mine. If Frank Kepple's model is correct, these worlds could have their existence in Focus 3 oC, possibly "up the tree" near Focus 4 - who knows. Maybe there are many "summerlands".
 

I realized right away this 'fairytale' world (in fact, I think I saw fairies) wasn't the average F3 location but I have no idea where it ranks on the scale. It was definitely surreal yet hyper-real (very technicolor and high-definition). Of note is that I wasn't able to enter this world, just observe it from a distance.

I haven't experienced anything like it again but hope to by raising my vibration while in the 'rushing through the black tube' phase. When I sing, chant, feel PUL in this stage I almost always end up at a lovely F3 location (although this morning I ended up on a spaceship full of humans that looked like they were from the 1950s and told me I had to leave - very odd).

Hmmm...spaceship and other beings...I think the Phase also allows us to enter other realities made of different matter. You might have gone to an alternate reality made of dark or antimatter - can you imagine this!!! These theories are found in Robert Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body and Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule. In the latter, you'll find reports of people who made contact with beings in other worlds and spaceships. I wonder how the "alternate humans" you encountered saw you...hmmm...

Quote from: Summerlander on June 13, 2011, 13:24:41
That's cool! You remind me of this:

(http://images.zap2it.com/movies//33343/33343_ba.jpg)

Ah yes  8-)

Love the whole trilogy, not just the 1st movie.

The Matrix is one big lucid dream! :-D

Quote from: Summerlander on June 15, 2011, 04:36:11
The Matrix is one big lucid dream! :-D

Actually, it would be one big "dream".  Not lucid, as everyone is just going about their business as if it was real life.  :)
It's the people who go into the "dream" that are consciously aware.

That's actually a good analogy to describe a dream vs an astral projection.

A Dream are the unknowing in the Matrix, the people who are just going about their day to day normal lives while in the Matrix.
An Astral Projection would be like the people who go into the Matrix, yet aren't part of the Matrix directly.  :)

Neo = Astral Projects

Morpheus and Co = Lucid Dream

The people plugged into the Matrix = Vivid Dreaming

:-D

Quote from: Summerlander on June 14, 2011, 12:22:23
Hmmm...spaceship and other beings...I think the Phase also allows us to enter other realities made of different matter. You might have gone to an alternate reality made of dark or antimatter - can you imagine this!!! These theories are found in Robert Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body and Rick Strassman's DMT: The Spirit Molecule. In the latter, you'll find reports of people who made contact with beings in other worlds and spaceships. I wonder how the "alternate humans" you encountered saw you...hmmm...

I've read all of Monroe and will check out Strassman. And yes, it occurred to me that what I observed as '50s humans in a classic flying saucer was just my translation of alien life in a form I could relate to without feeling fear. They looked surprised to see me and asked that I leave since "I was not of their dimension" so I hightailed it out of there. Perhaps I'll stick around next time and ask them more if I can reach that level again (I'm showing up in more and more interesting places now that I'm consciously raising my emotional state in the 'traveling tube' stage).

Quote from: Summerlander on June 15, 2011, 12:25:33
The people plugged into the Matrix = Vivid Dreaming

:-D

A vivid dream... and that's what some people call this life.

Guess most of us will never find out till the day we wake up...

...dead! *cue Megadeth*  :evil:

Quote from: Lightning on June 15, 2011, 19:50:02
A vivid dream... and that's what some people call this life.

Guess most of us will never find out till the day we wake up...

...dead! *cue Megadeth*  :evil:

Actually, I would consider this a "dream awareness experience" because if it was "a dream" we certainly don't realize it.  :)

The Phase state is all about amazing experiences. Btw, Lightning, I like Megadeth too! LOL!

Quote from: Xanth on June 15, 2011, 21:41:50
Actually, I would consider this a "dream awareness experience" because if it was "a dream" we certainly don't realize it.  :)

That confuses me

I guess the statement implies that the physical world is a persistent dream. Thomas Campbell states in his big TOE that the non-physical is only non-physical from the physical perspective. A non-physical being, for example, might deem our reality as non-physical and his as the physical or even the only real one. The laws of this entity's world would be how reality REALLY operates while the rules of our physical reality would be nonsensical.

Anyway, it's only a different way of looking at things. "Physical", "real", "surreal", "unreal" are only concepts that we came up with from an anthropological perspective. Get rid of all your concepts and you wipe the slate clean - this is our true nature in my opinion - the empty mind, nothingness, the room for creation, the ground of all being.

I had this conversation recently with Ssergiu. Buddha was right. To become awake is to realise that there is no observer nor observed. They are concepts arising in consciousness which we identify with to reaffirm our existence but, intrinsically, we are empty. Nirvana is the cessation of being - this, my friends, is waking up to your true nature.

Now Buddha believed that we are so bound by the illusions of samsaric existence, through desire, which causes us to be trapped in a cycle of deaths and rebirths, and that, if we want to escape this, much effort is needed in order to reach nirvana.

I, on the other hand, still consider the possibility that this nirvana could be attainable as soon as we die. Just like fainting, we become unconscious, cease to be. It's funny that when people wake up from having fainted, they are usually a little confused and have no idea of how much time has passed. All they know is that they lost their senses one minute and came to the next. Then they act surprised when you tell them that they've been gone for an hour. LOL! :-D

If death is the end of experience (or one type of experience until the deleted file is recycled and reconfigured so to speak - IF!) then the bomb squad can relax when they disarm bombs because, if they get the wrong wire...they'll never know that they did! :-D

Quote from: Xanth on June 15, 2011, 21:41:50
Actually, I would consider this a "dream awareness experience" because if it was "a dream" we certainly don't realize it.  :)

If we say life is a dream, then who is the dreamer?

God...?

Whoa...  :-D

But seriously, I know what you mean. Life is only a metaphorical dream, not an actual one. It can safely be called an illusion. Concepts, ideas, names, etc... they're all man-made tools to make sense of this reality. But the essence of it all cannot be grasped by intellect alone, it has to be experienced directly without any of the wordly senses interfering. Now that's easy to say, but without a doubt the most difficult thing one could achieve.

Quote from: Summerlander on June 16, 2011, 09:53:49
The Phase state is all about amazing experiences. Btw, Lightning, I like Megadeth too! LOL!

Cool, I like tons of different bands, but metal is my fav genre  :evil:

Proto-metal, everything doom/stoner, progressive and early thrash.

Quote from: Summerlander on June 16, 2011, 13:08:52
I guess the statement implies that the physical world is a persistent dream. Thomas Campbell states in his big TOE that the non-physical is only non-physical from the physical perspective. A non-physical being, for example, might deem our reality as non-physical and his as the physical or even the only real one. The laws of this entity's world would be how reality REALLY operates while the rules of our physical reality would be nonsensical.

Anyway, it's only a different way of looking at things. "Physical", "real", "surreal", "unreal" are only concepts that we came up with from an anthropological perspective. Get rid of all your concepts and you wipe the slate clean - this is our true nature in my opinion - the empty mind, nothingness, the room for creation, the ground of all being.

I had this conversation recently with Ssergiu. Buddha was right. To become awake is to realise that there is no observer nor observed. They are concepts arising in consciousness which we identify with to reaffirm our existence but, intrinsically, we are empty. Nirvana is the cessation of being - this, my friends, is waking up to your true nature.

Now Buddha believed that we are so bound by the illusions of samsaric existence, through desire, which causes us to be trapped in a cycle of deaths and rebirths, and that, if we want to escape this, much effort is needed in order to reach nirvana.

I, on the other hand, still consider the possibility that this nirvana could be attainable as soon as we die. Just like fainting, we become unconscious, cease to be. It's funny that when people wake up from having fainted, they are usually a little confused and have no idea of how much time has passed. All they know is that they lost their senses one minute and came to the next. Then they act surprised when you tell them that they've been gone for an hour. LOL! :-D

If death is the end of experience (or one type of experience until the deleted file is recycled and reconfigured so to speak - IF!) then the bomb squad can relax when they disarm bombs because, if they get the wrong wire...they'll never know that they did! :-D

I've been into Buddhism for a long time now (mainly Theravada) and everything the Buddha said makes perfect sense to me. I often watch the Ajahn Brahm talks posted on youtube. They are very basic and the man has a good sense of humor. For more advanced material, I go to www.accesstoinsight.org - you will find the metaphysical stuff there, for example:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html

Now... are there 31 planes existence? I don't know, but luckily the great majority of the places described are blissful realms  :-D

I remember hearing a dhamma talk about how it's extremely important the state of your consciousness at the time of death. You have to remain focused on achieving liberation. It may not lead directly towards Nirvana, but you could be reborn in one of the highest realms with the strong conviction of finally awakening in that last reincarnation.

I'm not 100% sure about what happens after we die. Not sure if there is such a thing as reincarnation. I do believe in karma however, and I sure as hell don't like the idea of eternal punishment for people who didn't believe in certain dogmas.

Thanks for this! I'm gonna check the Ajahn Brahm stuff and I'll get back to you on that!!! :-)

and yes, metal is phenomenal! I love thrash, the Big Four are amazing, I also love death and black metal. I'm also partial to other forms of rock/metal and I love blues and jazz! LOL

Buddha was the man!!!! I love Siddhartha Gautama. :wink:

Quote from: Summerlander on June 16, 2011, 16:37:55
Thanks for this! I'm gonna check the Ajahn Brahm stuff and I'll get back to you on that!!! :-)

No problem  :-)

Quote from: Summerlander on June 16, 2011, 16:37:55and yes, metal is phenomenal! I love thrash, the Big Four are amazing, I also love death and black metal. I'm also partial to other forms of rock/metal and I love blues and jazz! LOL

Hell yeah! But to be honest, the Big 4 have always been the Big 3 + Anthrax to me, if ya know what I mean  :-D

Gotta love the blues. I also like jazz, but don't listen to it often these days. Mostly stuff from the 50s/60s: Miles, Herbie, Coltrane, Mingus, Wayne Shorter, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, etc. Fusion is cool too.

Quote from: Summerlander on June 16, 2011, 16:37:55Buddha was the man!!!! I love Siddhartha Gautama. :wink:

Damn right!  :-D

 I love Rock in all forms. Classic/Metal etc., but not to meditate, lol. I have found that an english composer named Paul Collier has some excellent free you tube Astral Inducing music. I listen to Defragment your mid, 2012-A Theta Brainwave session and Song 54-Alpha to Delta. These are some of the most relaxing Binaural Beats I have found.

I just checked out that Buddhist cosmology link and enjoyed it. Whether is literal or metaphorical is irrelevant indeed. What matters is the message behind it. The realms could represent mind states which effect your actions and cause and effect is set in motion. You get what you give. If you're a bastard to people then you're more likely to be hated and despised. If you're nice then there are only sadists left as a potential threat. Then you get hurt unfairly because you can't even remember what you did wrong in a past life. ;D

That's the way I see it too. It's pointless to debate if they're real planes of existence, mental states, or both.

Then again, after many years of constant vipassana meditation one could find out for oneself in this lifetime  :-D

You're right about karma, of course. An example is the life of Maudgalyāyana, one of the greatest disciples of the Buddha who mastered pretty much every supernatural ability, but since he had murdered his parents in a previous life, he suffered a horrible death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudgalyāyana

Poor guy! :-o

What if his parents were bastards who deserved their deaths (excuse my sense of humour :-D)? In a way Maudgalyāyana was unknowingly carrying out what was due to them according to Karma and at the same time accumulating his own. People can say karma is a grump but really, what happens to them is a product of their doing - you reap what you sow.

If karma is real and extends beyond this life (past and present), it also depends a lot upon how you look at it. Whether good or bad happens, the experience can be educational. The events in your life can make you wiser if you take them on board and apply what you have learned constructively. From the greatest suffering can emerge the strongest souls.

Have you heard of a Buddhist story about a woman whose son died and how the Buddha helped her? The story starts by describing how she was boorishly treated by the locals for being poor until she gave birth one day. After giving birth, she was seen in a different light - she had created life!

Then, one day, her son became ill and died. She became depressed and the locals blamed her because they thought she hadn't looked after him properly. There were talks of a charismatic wise man who had apparently become enlightened and news about his insightful speeches travelled fast. Someone had found the woman crying over her dead son and advised her to go and see the Buddha as he was delivering a speech not far from there.

She met the Buddha and asked him what he could do to bring back her son. Buddha told her to go back to her village and get grains of mustard from every house with a history of prosperity and where nobody had ever died. Once she had the seeds, she was to take them to the Buddha.

She knocked on every house and found that, in every single one of them, there was a history of death and suffering. She also found that people empathised with her for her loss. Thus, she returned to the Buddha empty-handed but with a deep understanding about the nature of reality. She had realised that the mission the Buddha set her was one of self-discovery.

The answer was NOT in fulfilling her desire to see her son somehow miraculously resuscitated. This is an attachment which leads to suffering. The answer was in ACCEPTANCE. All things in samsaric existence come to an end. Accept, let go, move on - these are the qualities of a free mind. No matter what happens, your mind is serene. It doesn't mean she loved her son any less...

She was also impressed by the subtlety in which the Buddha handled her situation. Rather than bluntly telling her to get over the fact that her son was dead, which would have added to her suffering, he simply nudged her in a direction which allowed her to make this discovery for herself.

Quote from: Summerlander on June 18, 2011, 10:56:15
Poor guy! :-o

What if his parents were bastards who deserved their deaths (excuse my sense of humour :-D)? In a way Maudgalyāyana was unknowingly carrying out what was due to them according to Karma and at the same time accumulating his own. People can say karma is a grump but really, what happens to them is a product of their doing - you reap what you sow.

If karma is real and extends beyond this life (past and present), it also depends a lot upon how you look at it. Whether good or bad happens, the experience can be educational. The events in your life can make you wiser if you take them on board and apply what you have learned constructively. From the greatest suffering can emerge the strongest souls.

What you say in the beginning, taken as a joke it's funny  :-D

But any sane person who's in the right path will tell you that killing generates bad karma. This could lead to slightly complex situations, like killing an active murderer. You generate both bad and good karma. But I don't think it "evens out" so to speak. You still have to pay for what you did. And the thing about some of the karma you have accumulated is that it could take a long time to take effect.

It is said that the human realm is the best one for learning/growth. In the lower planes the suffering is almost (if not 100%) relentless, so it's extremely difficult to grasp a glimpse of the truth. In the higher realms, beings tend to be distracted by the sheer bliss they enjoy there. And most of them believe "This is it. I'm in heaven now, for all eternity." But once their good karma is exhausted, they get reborn in some inferior place (i.e., get back here). In the future they could end up in hell, and the cycle continues.

Suffering is everywhere, but always remember that you can rise above it. You can even transcend
physical pain, of course that takes a huge deal of experience regarding right concentration, but it's still possible. Pain is not required in order to learn/grow.

Quote from: Summerlander on June 18, 2011, 10:56:15Have you heard of a Buddhist story about a woman whose son died and how the Buddha helped her? The story starts by describing how she was boorishly treated by the locals for being poor until she gave birth one day. After giving birth, she was seen in a different light - she had created life!

Then, one day, her son became ill and died. She became depressed and the locals blamed her because they thought she hadn't looked after him properly. There were talks of a charismatic wise man who had apparently become enlightened and news about his insightful speeches travelled fast. Someone had found the woman crying over her dead son and advised her to go and see the Buddha as he was delivering a speech not far from there.

She met the Buddha and asked him what he could do to bring back her son. Buddha told her to go back to her village and get grains of mustard from every house with a history of prosperity and where nobody had ever died. Once she had the seeds, she was to take them to the Buddha.

She knocked on every house and found that, in every single one of them, there was a history of death and suffering. She also found that people empathised with her for her loss. Thus, she returned to the Buddha empty-handed but with a deep understanding about the nature of reality. She had realised that the mission the Buddha set her was one of self-discovery.

The answer was NOT in fulfilling her desire to see her son somehow miraculously resuscitated. This is an attachment which leads to suffering. The answer was in ACCEPTANCE. All things in samsaric existence come to an end. Accept, let go, move on - these are the qualities of a free mind. No matter what happens, your mind is serene. It doesn't mean she loved her son any less...

She was also impressed by the subtlety in which the Buddha handled her situation. Rather than bluntly telling her to get over the fact that her son was dead, which would have added to her suffering, he simply nudged her in a direction which allowed her to make this discovery for herself.

Yeah, I knew that story and I love it. The Buddha always looked for the right way to teach each individual according to their own unique background.

In the end she still loved her son but she was no longer attached to him. She was free. It is said she was the first woman guided by Siddhartha to attain Nirvana.

Cool! And this is the ultimate goal, isn't it? Nirvana...the cessation of being. You become free from this seemingly perpetual experience. Free from cyclical existence. It transcends everything. The radiant nothingness which is indestructible reality. You wipe the slate clean as you free yourself of all concepts - no attachments!! - pristine cognition...intrinsic awareness - a truly blissful state!

I'd imagine this is sort of like a deep sleep after having worked so hard, when you're "dead to the world" so to speak, a much deserved rest and it is kind of cool in a way. Freedom!!! Ahhhh... :-D

That's right. Nirvana is even beyond infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, and neither-perception-nor-non-perception (the 4 highest realms).

It can't be expressed/described, only defined in a very simplistic manner by what it is and what's not.

"Nibbana names the transcendent and singularly ineffable freedom that stands as the final goal of all the Buddha's teachings."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca3/nibbana.html

I like that fire analogy. Nice link. Nirvana is an attractive prospect for me. Some view it as a dreadful one because it is the cessation of being. I think it's truly brave to just let go and not worry where you'll end up. This is the highest form of liberation. 8)

Yep. If you describe to someone your goal as the "cessation of being" they will think you're insane  :-D

According to the Buddha, all beings have no real permanent self. Only 5 temporary constituents (form, feeling, perception, mental fabrications and consciousness) so rich and complex that they create a powerful illusion. It's amazing to notice he proposed this around 2500 years ago  :-D

"An uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person [...] assumes form to be the self, or the self as possessing form, or form as in the self, or the self as in form.

He assumes feeling to be the self...

He assumes perception to be the self...

He assumes fabrications to be the self...

He assumes consciousness to be the self, or the self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in the self, or the self as in consciousness."

A truly remarkable individual. The knowledge he passed on obviously came from the altered states he achieved in meditation.

There's something peculiar that I experienced once in the hypnagogic state and during one of my Phase entry attempts. I was laying in bed deeply relaxed when I saw the image of  strange room with nice furniture. I was looking at the furniture and I knew what it was. Then I somehow switched to not knowing, I looked at it and it was completely alien to me. Curiosity made me switch back to knowing again. This made me think about the pristine cognition talked about in Buddhism. There was also a kind of comfort and exhilaration in knowing that ultimately, we are empty and that, if we want, we can get rid of all concepts as though we are unloading weight off our backs.

That sounded like a cool experiment.

By the way, is your avatar an entity you saw in the phase?

My avatar? No. The theme for it was the trickster, the shape-shifting archetype that appears in dreams sometimes. It is only an interpretation of that concept. I did take some inspiration from the Joker's face (Jack nicholson), the Martians from Mars Attacks, that scary dude from Clockwork Orange and Bedeekin's mug. :-D

I see.

It does look like the Joker's grin, the martian's brain, and the eyes of Alex DeLarge.

Dunno what Bedeekin's mug looks like. Was he pleased with your depiction of it?  :-D

LOL! Bedeekin thought it looked like Smeagle. It is partially inspired by his face so he shouldn't take any offence. He probably thinks it's hilarious. I posted a picture of me in my wedding suit once and he said I was a dead ringer for Joe Pesci. It's all in good taste. I like Joe Pesci. :-D

LOL

That reminds me. Since you're a Metallica fan like me, you probably know the comedian Jim Breuer. He does a great impression of Joe Pesci  :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljJoMKaLXrM

I did see him do Lars and James! He was hilarious! LOL, I loved that impression of Joe Pesci. the nicholson one was good too! My wife likes goat boy!! :lol:

Yeah, the guy is actually more famous for Goat Boy  :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwn5y3XNDIg&feature=related

:-D

Ben Stiller  :-D

To keep it more to the topic, here are some videos I found. The third one includes David Fontana's input. It was in one of his books that I found the whole concept of "Summerland". The first one is sheldrake - he's brilliant! The mind is like a field extending beyond the physical body! Great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frJpThIims8&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mti3oWINgY0&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGV8aQxCsCI&feature=relmfu

Sounds interesting.

Gonna check out the videos soon, thanks for sharing.

Your welcome.  I've always found Sheldrake's view interesting...

Summerland,

I am not sure of your documenting methods, but I found it extremely useful to use Date,time of OBE, and Title and write about the experience. Also, categorize the type of OBE - EX: Dream to OBE, False Awakening, Wide Awake Induced.

A lot of people who start out projecting question when the next time it will happen. So by doing all these statistical tracking, it paints a clearer picture to focus on the good and the bad days of when, to try and project.

Hope this helps, but otherwise it looks like your on track.

Good work,

DW

Thanks David.  I was inspired by Robert Monroe in the way that I document my experiences.  At the beginning I completely forgot to date them.  Then I looked at Journeys Out of the Body and I thought that was a good way.  Now there is always a date...LOL   :lol:

Hello Summerlander,

You were granted a great privilege: to have a glimpse at some extraordinary reality that you yourself described of being of a higher order, a Higher Astral plane. Only rarely do mortals are permitted as observers there. It was not a coincidence you were let to see it, there was a purpose to it. You must have something in your spiritual make up which this experience was meant to intensify for your consciousness, providing this experience as a guiding beacon to steer you up internally as to where you should be aiming.

It does not appear thought that except for the initial recognition of the beauty, Love and harmony you saw there and maybe a bit of a nostalgia when you came to the everyday reality, anything much has bean steered up. Judging by the avatar you were previosly using, which was scary, fierce, and demonic looking, equally if no more scary as that of ether 2,  sadly, that experience has not right away changed you, has not "softened" you, has not made you more harmonious in your image. The image your avatar projected would not fit at all with the vibes of the Summerlenad you visited, is not of the same order, but appears to be more fitting with the low Astral reality. But I am glad to see that you havecchange it for your photo. So maybe it has changed you a bit afterall, or maybe the photo is serving some other material means, like making in this forum that would follow outside the farum for some other purposes (?). I hope it is because you are changing, to the better.

I don't think you had even realized that you were placed by higher spiritual powers to face this dilemma and do something about it, to start changing, and changing rapidly in all aspects of your life, including the image of yourself as what you project to the outside world.

We are all spiritual beings and we all have a higher purpose. Are we fulfilling that purpose? Are experiences and stuff we focus upon making us more spiritual? Is astral projection making one more spiritual, or does there come a point where the astral experiences start deteriorating and one begins experiencing a lot of situations of being stuck in the walls and darkness, rather than attaining the light and beauty of the Summerland?

From you descriptions of your subsequent projections, one could sense a deterioration of sorts, even a remark in one of your posts about the wet dreams of a neighbor who you visited without their permission in your astral travel, leaves one with a sense of low vibes, rather than with any true spiritual advancement.

Other than that one experience of yours at the Summerland, I see no spiritual advancement or purpose with your further experimentations with the Astral projection and travel. It becomes experimentation, experiences that only serve a purpose to have  experiences, rather than growing into a truly advanced spiritual being. The preoccupation with these types of experiences and experimentations might even slow down one's spiritual progress and journey.

You really believe that?

What about the possibility that perhaps my "summerland" experience stemmed from the fact that I was getting excited at the time at the prospect of astral projecting?  What if endorphins and endogenous DMT played a role?  What if these experiences are hallucinatory in nature?  What if that world was ACTIVELY imagined and has its source in fairytales that we read to me as a child?

I'm just pointing out other possibilities.  But your approach and interpretation is certainly interesting...

Btw, before I forget, my former avatar was not a demon.  It was a representation of a Jungian dream archetype: the trickster.  I've got more art like that if you are interested.

Whether sex in the phase is counter-productive to spiritual development of not is debatable.  I see sex as something that I greatly enjoy but deep down inside I know I could cope if I could never have it again.  You can still enjoy the things in life and still be enlightened IMO.  :wink:

Quote from: Summerlander on September 01, 2011, 07:37:30
You really believe that?

What about the possibility that perhaps my "summerland" experience stemmed from the fact that I was getting excited at the time at the prospect of astral projecting?  What if endorphins and endogenous DMT played a role?  What if these experiences are hallucinatory in nature?  What if that world was ACTIVELY imagined and has its source in fairytales that we read to me as a child?

I'm just pointing out other possibilities.  But your approach and interpretation is certainly interesting...

Btw, before I forget, my former avatar was not a demon.  It was a representation of a Jungian dream archetype: the trickster.  I've got more art like that if you are interested.

Whether sex in the phase is counter-productive to spiritual development of not is debatable.  I see sex as something that I greatly enjoy but deep down inside I know I could cope if I could never have it again.  You can still enjoy the things in life and still be enlightened IMO.  :wink:

Hello Summerlander,

As you know, astral worlds are of spiritual realm. If you did landed in spiritual realms, in that case I indeed believe that you were provided an opportunity by higher spiritual beings for a short visit to see for yourself the result of high personal vibrations and where that would lead.

Yes, you are correct, these experiences might simply be of dreams and childhood fairy tales, or some other memories and psycho states. In that case it has nothing to do with spirituality or even Astral planes, but one's own psychological make up. It would be no different than discussing your dreams with a psychologist or a psychiatrist, and although one gets a bit more understanding into one's personal reality it has really nothing much to do with an active spiritual advancement and path. For most, to engage in something like this, though you call it Astral projection, would be actually a waste of time and efforts, since it is of no value and does not raise one's vibes and therefore does not lead anywhere.

If you want to be a spiritually developed person, than even the act of sex, an activity not precluding spiritual grows if it is done as an act of love, with morality and dignity involved, can advance you. However, if you think nothing of barging into the private space of your neighbours, provided the experience was a real astral projection and not a dream, and even are expecting your neighbour's wife having a wet dream because of your astral visit, then your vibes have no spiritual footing and are of low order. These types of experiences would not make you grow spiritually.

I strongly believe that we are here in this physical world to progress spiritually. And we would really be wasting our time with activities that do not help us on this mission.

As for your previous avatar, the trickster is a dark entity or person. Somebody who tricks has low vibrations. The drawing appeared demonic to me and scary. No, I really do not want to see more of this type of scary images, do not want to pollute my psychi with low vibes. But thanks for offering to show your drawings.

Don't worry, I won't be putting up any more scary pictures!  :wink:

Btw, one can use these experiences to grow spiritually but there are also other practical goals to achieve with this phenomenon.  It is definitely not useful.  It all depends on what you want really...or sometimes...what you don't want:

http://obe4u.com/?page_id=10

Aims,
It's important to realize that you shouldn't take your projections (or even your dreams, for that matter) literally.  There's nothing literal about what you experience in the non-physical... in my opinion, what you experience is an interpretation of experiences that are drawn from your direct experiences.  In other words, they're simply metaphors for what was actually going on.  Interpreting those metaphors correctly is a personal and individually unique thing.  :)

The "Summerland" that Summerlander experienced could have represented just about anything.  It's really up to Summerlander to determine it though... sure, it's cool to give suggestions and all, but in the end, it's really his opinion of his experience that is most important.

For example... Robert Monroe had his "Park" (at Focus 27) which he visited frequently.  I have no doubt that his "Park" was simply his interpretation of what he was experiencing.  If I was to visit "his" Park, I might not see a park at all... but something else I equate to the kind of area that he experienced there.  To me, it could be a nice sandy beach with people playing.  Or something else that I draw from my own personal experiences that I equate to "relaxation of the spirit, peace and happiness".    :)

If one is not to take one's projections literally, and if they are simply "what you experience is an interpretation of experiences" and not any reality outside of oneself, it appears to me that it is an activity where one is sort of "masturbating" with one's own experiences.

No doubt it could be useful and relaxing to indulge one's fantasies, to get lost in one's own fantasy world for a while. In the same way as people now en masse get lost in the video fantasy games. I am sure many find them relaxing and even a means of discovering oneself, or how one relates to the others and the surroundings, the fantasy ones and otherwise. Yet is this helping to fulfil one's mission with which one came to this physical world?

Quote from: Aims on September 02, 2011, 14:16:01
If one is not to take one's projections literally, and if they are simply "what you experience is an interpretation of experiences" and not any reality outside of oneself, it appears to me that it is an activity where one is sort of "masturbating" with one's own experiences.

No doubt it could be useful and relaxing to indulge one's fantasies, to get lost in one's own fantasy world for a while. In the same way as people now en masse get lost in the video fantasy games. I am sure many find them relaxing and even a means of discovering oneself, or how one relates to the others and the surroundings, the fantasy ones and otherwise. Yet is this helping to fulfil one's mission with which one came to this physical world?

Nono, I'm not saying that what you experience is "fantasy" or "made up from your mind"... although in some cases, that *could* be true.  But, mostly it's not and depends entirely upon the source of what you're seeing, HOWEVER...

As a consciousness, you can only experience that which you experience within the paradigm of the sum of what you've experienced previously.  For example, describe to me what a "Dadipladouche" (I made that up btw LoL) is.  If you experienced a Dadipladouche in the non-physical how will you know it's a Dadipladouche?   Now, *I* know what a Dadipladouche is... so when I experience one, I have something from my experiences to draw from so that I experience a Dadipladouche.  If I didn't have the experience to draw from, it would appear to me as something as close to an interpretation that I have in my memory/experiences of something else.  If I didn't know what this mystical Dadipladouche was, and if it was a "big creature" of some kind, it might appear to me as a Dragon or a Dinosaur as just two examples.  Since that would be the closest matches that my consciousness could make in order to "define" it and make it "understandable" to me.

What you experience "IS REAL".  How you experience it is a metaphor... an interpretation based upon the sum of your previous experiences as something to draw from for that interpretation to take form.

Does that make sense?  :)

Hello Ryan and Summerlander,

To tell you the truth, I have absolutely no desire to experience any "Dadipladouche" or any such similar unknown things or entities.

I believe spiritual truths are simple and easy to grasp, if only our Ego did not stand in the way. Certain experiences are delivered from higher realms and should not be trivialized. We should not allow our Ego to do so. If we disregard such messages, there are consequences. Consider this quotation:

"If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream." Numbers 12:6

Summerlender without much realizing it, might have had such a prophetic dream concerning himself and destiny of those with spiritual aspirations. I simply wanted to point this out to him, regardless of whatever his Ego chooses to decide and believe this experience was all about.

I believe Adrian started this forum because of personal spiritual aspirations. But somehow, there is no spiritual focus in this forum at all.

Quote from: Aims on September 02, 2011, 19:14:50
Hello Ryan and Summerlander,

To tell you the truth, I have absolutely no desire to experience any "Dadipladouche" or any such similar unknown things or entities.

When you project, you open yourself up to everything the non-physical has to offer.  You don't really have a big choice in it.  You do have SOME choice, but not much.

QuoteI believe Adrian started this forum because of personal spiritual aspirations. But somehow, there is no spiritual focus in this forum at all.

The "MAIN FOCUS" of this forum is to teach beginners how to Astral Project.

I'm actually very baffled by your statement though... are you serious?  You see NO spiritual focus in this forum at all?  O_o

Not really,

This forum gives me an impression of people aspiring to meditate on their own navel. Maybe some consider this spiritual...

I came periodically here and then I would always retreat. I prefer Adrian's other forum, OUR ULTIMATE REALITY one, though it is a very slow forum, not as racy as this one.
http://www.ourultimatereality.com/forums/index.php

Are you always this... crass?   :?

I'm terribly sorry that we don't live up to your expectations.
I can assure you that you're quite mistaken in your assumption though.

I invite you to stick around, read some more, take some more in... then if you still feel that way, feel free to not post.  :)

Quote from: Ryan_ on September 02, 2011, 19:46:16

When you project, you open yourself up to everything the non-physical has to offer.  You don't really have a big choice in it.  You do have SOME choice, but not much.

Crass??? Did I offend you or your ego by stating exactly what I think? There might be others who are reticent to say what they think...

What scares me in your statement above, one has no choice? I certainly would not like to be in a position where I have no choice, especially concerning spiritual matters. Even God gives free choice to everybody. Maybe this is what keeps me reticent about the astral projection business, because one does not really know what one is getting into and has no choice. One can be exposed to forces beyond one's comprehension and ability to protect oneself from. This might not simply be like playing an imaginary video game, but actually something, the forces, we should not be dealing with at all if we aspire for a Summerland. And we certainly always have a conscious ability to choose what we aspire for, and to move in that direction and even achieve it without any practices that have a potential to expose us to a lot of situations where we have no choice or control, and which might even detract us from our principle goal.

Life is simply too short... there are too many distractions...

Quote from: Aims on September 02, 2011, 21:50:51
Crass??? Did I offend you or your ego by stating exactly what I think? There might be others who are reticent to say what they think...

Aren't you just the charmer.  ;)

QuoteWhat scares me in your statement above, one has no choice? I certainly would not like to be in a position where I have no choice, especially concerning spiritual matters. Even God gives free choice to everybody. Maybe this is what keeps me reticent about the astral projection business, because one does not really know what one is getting into and has no choice. One can be exposed to forces beyond one's comprehension and ability to protect oneself from. This might not simply be like playing an imaginary video game, but actually something, the forces, we should not be dealing with at all if we aspire for a Summerland. And we certainly always have a conscious ability to choose what we aspire for, and to move in that direction and even achieve it without any practices that have a potential to expose us to a lot of situations where we have no choice or control, and which might even detract us from our principle goal.

Life is simply too short... there are too many distractions...

It kind of sounds like you're not quite ready for astral projection... you're letting fear dictate your path.  If you can move past that and give it a try regardless, you can minimize any negativeness you might run into by exploring with only Good Intentions in your heart.  :)

I think you are missing my point. It is not a question of fear but of spiritual aim and purpose. It is like getting caught in trivialities and missing all together the grand design and what one really should be deeply concerned about and work for. There might not be all that much time left, really... to make ones choices and decisions and to establish on which vibration level one is going to end up...

Where your thought goes, this is where your spirit goes. Does it go to "Dadipladouche"?

The spirituals realms were revealed to us in ancient books and are known. God had spoken to may ancient prophets and revealed the spiritual truths. So there is no point really in being preoccupied to experience any lesser vibes such as discovering any "Dadipladouche" or such.

The interesting fact is the God chooses to whom he speaks of his truth. And when that happens it should be greatly valued, and this was my point to Summerlander in case it had happened to him. This is why I decided to speak at all in this forum, not because I want to experience "Dadipladouche". I'd rather aim to experiencing the Summerland.

Quote from: Aims on September 03, 2011, 08:47:12
I think you are missing my point. It is not a question of fear but of spiritual aim and purpose. It is like getting caught in trivialities and missing all together the grand design and what one really should be deeply concerned about and work for. There might not be all that much time left, really... to make ones choices and decisions and to establish on which vibration level one is going to end up...

Where your thought goes, this is where your spirit goes. Does it go to "Dadipladouche"?

The spirituals realms were revealed to us in ancient books and are known. God had spoken to may ancient prophets and revealed the spiritual truths. So there is no point really in being preoccupied to experience any lesser vibes such as discovering any "Dadipladouche" or such.

The interesting fact is the God chooses to whom he speaks of his truth. And when that happens it should be greatly valued, and this was my point to Summerlander in case it had happened to him. This is why I decided to speak at all in this forum, not because I want to experience "Dadipladouche". I'd rather aim to experiencing the Summerland.

That sounds like a "fear" to me.

In any case, you won't *know* until you try.  ;)

I don't know what that place was.  I call it "Summerland" because it is similar to descriptions I found of that afterlife world in Theosophy and Spiritualism.  But believing it to be an afterlife realm is an interpretation.

This is quite rhetorical and obviously written with the intent to draw masses together to support one interpretation too:

"If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream." Numbers 12:6

The truth is, nobody knows what it was that I and others have experienced.  There is no certainty.  Yes, it seemed magical, colourful, harmonious, loving...but was it anything divine?  Don't certain drugs make you experience similar things (bright colours, awesome hallucinations, dramatic changes in mood etc.)  What about the correlation between the release and activation of certain hormones and neurotransmitters and how an individual feels?

Another thing that sprung to mind.  When I returned to wakefulness from that amazing world, I felt extremely sad because I wanted to be there forever.  In a way, such experienced seemed to feed my ego, I felt driven by desire, I felt deprived of something great - like a child who had his lolly taken away, and, in that sense, it was spiritually counter-productive.

In Buddhism, nirvana is beyond spiritual development.  It is simply the annihilation of Self and the cessation of being.  Although it promotes altruism, the pursuit of such state should NOT be motivated by ego.  Also, the thought of nirvana sounds dreadful to most.  Why should I be concerned with where I am headed spiritually if being concerned means that I worry and I'm scared about where I'll end up?  I think the best way is not to worry.  Do what you like and just believe that there is nothing that will punish you.  The punishment will come from yourself if you believe that you should be punished for something that you've done.  

As long as you are not hurting anyone then everything is fine.  You are only truly free if you don't concern yourself with possible destinations.  If you don't worry about where you'll end up then you are truly free.

I could be told by St Pete that I'll be sent to hell, and if I want, in my mind, that wouldn't bother me.  Hell is only hell if you make it so.  If it is unpleasant at first, rather than see it as doom and gloom, you can see it as a challenge and make it fun in your mind.  If the situation is entrapment and desperation erupts...just give up and let nature take its course.  Build resistance to the pain.  If the demons get you and it means that it is the end of you...so be it.  In the end, hell only exists in the mind and it will be there for as long as you allow it too.

As the Roman philosopher Seneca once said:
"You must want nothing if you wish to challenge Jupiter who wants nothing himself."

(http://www.abc.net.au/rn/philosopherszone/img/m1810755.jpg)  

Pretty much... the best we can say is, "I don't know".  :)

If you can learn to live with uncertainty, you can learn to live with "I don't know" as an answer.

Hello Summerlander and all,

The need and drive for spiritual advancement and for a personal spiritual journey progression upward does not come from one's Ego but from one's Higher Self. The longing for such advancement and desiring to reach the sublime planes, the nostalgia for it also comes from the Higher Self. One has to desire the spiritual growth, that's one and only way to get on a spiritual journey. One has to choose it and desire it, desire to reach the highest sublime heights. This has nothing to do with Ego. In fact, one's Ego could be the strongest deterrent to such a desire and to one's  spiritual advancement, because it likes to play games with your mind.

Many people who had near death experiences reached some place not unlike as what you described as Summerland. They did not want to leave, but were sent back, and they also experienced a deep sense of nostalgia for that place. This experience changed their lives. Not all near death experiences are like that, some are truly hellish.

So basically one has to chose, and then deeply and sincerely desire to achieve their spiritual heights' goal, and then restructure their inner and mental reality accordingly. That's the only way.

Quote from: Aims on September 03, 2011, 21:17:31
That's the only way.

The only thing I have to say is... beware of ultimatums. 

Yes, it is the ultimate goal that has to be deeply desired to be able to achieve it.

No, I mean beware of people who say "<so and so> is the ONLY way".
It shows a closed mind.

An epiphany experience can happen out of a blue as it happened to Paul on his way to Damascus. Once again, he was chosen to have this experience where he was shown higher realities and he turned his life around immediately.

Other than an epiphany moment, it is a personal choice, an effort, and strife based on desire to get to some spiritual realms. One really has to work on raising one's vibes to be able to reach to the higher vibs' realms. Otherwise, the everyday mundane reality and ego detract one from the spiritual course, and causes one to loose one's focus and become lost in trivialities and in other musings, and at times even in unproductive practices. If one does not have a clear focus where one is going, where one wants to end, there is really very little chance ever getting there. It really takes an open mind to realize this.

Aims,

You seem to favour religious spiritual views and use rhetorical Biblical stories in an attempt to reinforce their validity.  I can vouch for the fact that you can also have so-called epiphanies and other profound experiences on psychedelic drugs.  Why?  Because I have tried them.  Such experiences will change the lives of some...but not others.

Empirically, it is reasoned that two different individuals will react differently to the same or similar experiences.  Some are more inclined to mystical views than others.

If we experience this world in all its glory, then we should make the most of it and there is no right way of going about it apart from the one that you believe is right.  We all have different goals and interests.  We all have different goals and interests.  Just because a huge crowd is saying that one view is the right one and that the absolute truth has been found does not make it so.  Do you know what Albert Einestein said after being laughed at by his fellow scientists for the ideas that he expressed?

"He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt.  He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice."

Recently, I was ousted by a group of people who have very good ideas and have a different perspective to mine on things.  I was a stubborn fool who clashed with certain members of that group.  The group has really taken to a trilogy book that holds a theory of everything which was authored by a remarkable man.  Reflecting on what happened I realised that I am not really against them.  I am simply refraining from limiting myself with belief-traps or at least trying to (even though the aforementioned book - the last in the series - encourages open-mindedness...which I like).

Being open-minded towards one idea does not mean being open-minded as a whole.  You can be open-minded about one thing but close your mind to the rest...the other potential avenues.  Do see what I'm getting at?  The pursuit of truth, knowledge, wisdom and enlightenment has to come from within.  It cannot be told or shown...it has to be discovered.  There are a myriad ways to get there.  Remember...making fire by friction was stumbled upon, not shown... perhaps it was inevitable!

Another thing I'd like to state.  Two members of that group were debating about the way I had been handled.  They both agreed that showing love to someone who is, in their eyes, somewhat lost, is the best way.  But both had a different idea of what "showing love" meant on that occasion.  That was interesting to observe.  They are humans like me who have different ideas about one particular thing and both have different views as to how one should act (the right way) in one particular situation.

I wish I could have remained there to learn more but my tenacity (perhaps stubbornness is a better word) and ignorance got in the way.  We have to be open-minded about other ways, not just one, Aims.  I think this is what Ryan was referring to about you.  Don't make the same mistake that I did.  We are all uncertain and searching for the truth in the end.  Here's another valuable quote:

The pursuit of truth will set you free; even if you never catch up to it." - Clarence Darrow

People's writings reveal a lot about them. How knowledgeable are they about facts, how much are they either within themselves and their Egos, or connected to the Source, how smug or earnest, how preoccupied with spiritual advancement, whether they are progressing at all or are stuck at the same vibs as half a year or a year ago, and that regardless whether they might have been "refining"  the mental construct of their practices (which process might have fooled them into believing they are progressing). This non-progression is often not obvious to those writing, since they always have some new experiences, some new amusing stories about themselves and hints to offer to others, and are "progressing" with interpretations of what they do, yet their writings cry out to those perceptible enough: where are you going with all of that, why are you not gaining in any spiritual standing? Why are you still exactly the same as before?

Then all one can say is: What a pity, what a waste!

QuotePeople's writings reveal a lot about them.

This is certainly true.

Quote from: Aims on September 05, 2011, 07:23:59
People's writings reveal a lot about them. How knowledgeable are they about facts, how much are they either within themselves and their Egos, or connected to the Source, how smug or earnest, how preoccupied with spiritual advancement, whether they are progressing at all or are stuck at the same vibs as half a year or a year ago, and that regardless whether they might have been "refining"  the mental construct of their practices (which process might have fooled them into believing they are progressing). This non-progression is often not obvious to those writing, since they always have some new experiences, some new amusing stories about themselves and hints to offer to others, and are "progressing" with interpretations of what they do, yet their writings cry out to those perceptible enough: where are you going with all of that, why are you not gaining in any spiritual standing? Why are you still exactly the same as before?

Then all one can say is: What a pity, what a waste!

My question to you then is... who are YOU to judge someone else's "spiritual standing"?

One can often get more in terms of spirituality when simply stepping out and communing with nature and smelling and loving roses, admiring all God's creation - at least one gets away from oneself and one's Ego - than from spending a lot of time and effort on self-involved and self-centering practices that only deal with virtual, non-real, but self-indulged and self-induced imagery. Perhaps as an artist one can really get caught in "creating" this virtual imagery in 3 D, and be smitten by it, and be caught and lost in it, but artistic creation in itself is no means to advance spiritually.

According to both Christianity and old eastern teachings, the spiritual path is narrow. The writings in Eastern traditions I read called it razor-blade thin.  In contrast, the OBE, or Astral Projection, seems to be a wide-open door where everything goes.

As to how we judge or not judge:

"By their fruits you will know them".  Matthew 7:20

The imagery of being stuck in the walls or wishing for a neighbour's wife's wet dream speak out loud and clear all by itself.  

QuoteAccording to both Christianity and old eastern teachings, the spiritual path is narrow. The writings in Eastern traditions I read called it razor-blade thin.  In contrast, the OBE, or Astral Projection, seems to be a wide-open door where everything goes.

Perhaps you need to do less reading and more self-discovering.  Not everything you read is true.  Also, material such as the one you reference can be and has been interpreted in a number of conflicting ways.

Quote from: Summerlander on September 05, 2011, 12:19:16
Perhaps you need to do less reading and more self-discovering.  Not everything you read is true.  Also, material such as the one you reference can be and has been interpreted in a number of conflicting ways.

Well put.

How about doing an experiment - at least once, but more times would be better - of something different. Just before attempting an OBE or an Astral Projection, ask that this time you wish to be guided in this experience by an advanced being – spirit with very high vibs, somebody who has holiness about him, a spirit with holy vibes. Ask this spirit to protect you and guide you and show what you need to see and understand at this point of your spiritual journey. Your request should be an earnest and sincere one, and not like a joke. Do this with an open mind without having any pre-ideas of the result.

Summerlander had an excellent opportunity to talk to the person who greeted him at the entry to the Summerland, yet he passed him without a word.

My friend, if you had seen the vibrant colours of that world, even you would pass the being without saying anything.  Those colours were like a magnet.  I wanted to be near them as soon as possible.  Also, even if I had the chance to talk to the being, at the time I was still a novice and was overwhelmed.  I wouldn't even know what to say to it at that particular moment.  Sometimes the unknown can paralyse you or leave you speechless, so, until you experience something like this my friend, I ask you to refrain from judgement.

As for requesting a guide...well...I think it's obvious what my response will be to that.  The mind will give you exactly that.

So if your mind, as you believe, gave you such a gorgeous experience, it should be repeatable. Just think about it, and certainly "The mind will give you exactly that". So how come, though you were longing for Summerland your mind never gave you exactly that?

There are worlds and realities beyond our everyday reality or our psychic inner realities. Those spiritual worlds do exist, we do not just make them up in our imagination. And it looks like the mind does not repeatedly produce them even when there is a longing for it. So maybe the guidance of the spirit that is of holy nature could be of help. Ask for purifying your vibes so you would be better attuned to higher, holy vibes.

Quote from: Aims on September 06, 2011, 15:24:02
So if your mind, as you believe, gave you such a gorgeous experience, it should be repeatable. Just think about it, and certainly "The mind will give you exactly that". So how come, though you were longing for Summerland your mind never gave you exactly that?

There are worlds and realities beyond our everyday reality or our psychic inner realities. Those spiritual worlds do exist, we do not just make them up in our imagination. And it looks like the mind does not repeatedly produce them even when there is a longing for it. So maybe the guidance of the spirit that is of holy nature could be of help. Ask for purifying your vibes so you would be better attuned to higher, holy vibes.

They are not really beyond us. We can go there if we learn enough, but I think you're right, it's not just imaginations of the mind.

Calling higher vibrations holy is silly. Why isn't everything holy? Our body focuses our consciousness inside of it, and projecting means becoming aware of something else. Matter is just what "happens" when vibrations are low. That doesn't mean we're low, unholy creatures!

If we were holy creatures, we would not have been in this physical world of relatively low vibrations. I simply used the word holy to denote the high vibrations and realities, where frankly, non of us in this physical world is vibrating.

Going back to the Sourse presupposes vibrating in higher and higher vibrations.

Quote from: Orion- on September 06, 2011, 15:28:02
Calling higher vibrations holy is silly.

They're Metaphors.  :)

It's just how he chooses to describe certain aspects to make them understandable to himself.
We all do it.  We all have our own metaphors for what we experience.  It's important to be able to recognize other people's metaphors and compare them to your own.  And if you can't find what matches yours, then ask them to describe it better.  :)