Sweet and very sad experience

[Heather B.]

I just read this post by knightlight and thought I'd share my own experience from last night, which also, incidentally, followed a night of "communing with spirits" (my favorite euphemism for drinking, and one that most people don't get).  NOTE: in case there are any impressionable minds out there, please don't regard this as an endorsement of drinking--trust me, you DON'T want to be like me.

Anyway... this was an incredibly vivid, tangible experience... dream, projection, whatever you will.  It was not "just a dream," that's for sure.

Patrick (my deceased fiance, who nearly always has some part in my astral experiences) and I were walking through an old rural village in Ireland (our mutual ancestral land).  It was such a beautiful afternoon, everything was golden and shimmering from an earlier rain.  There were still grey clouds in the sky, but they were outlined in gold.  We were walking arm in arm, as always, talking about getting married soon.  

"I guess we should probably start laying down some plans soon," he remarked, obviously not relishing the idea.  He always assumed that I, like most women, would want to go crazy with a fancy fairytale wedding.

I stopped him and pulled him closer to me and leaned my mouth to his ear.  "We don't have to make plans--let's just do it!  Look, I've already got the ring--that's the most important thing."  I raised my left hand.  As in real life, there was a ring on my "wedding finger."  A silver band with leaf-shaped carvings on either side of the stone, a stunning Mystic Fire topaz---every detail exactly like my real one, only even more radiant.  

He looked at the ring, and looked at me, and his face began to glow.  "I'm so glad you were thinking the same thing I was!  Let's go over here, there's a judge who will marry us."  He led me toward an old stone building covered in ivy.  I hesitated, though.  "Wait, Patrick, there's something that concerns me."

"What could that be," he asked.

"Well you're a pilot.  That's a risky job.  It's not suitable for a husband is it?"

He frowned at me.  "You won't marry me if I keep flying?"

I knew I couldn't ask him to give up the thing he was so passionate about.  My heart felt torn.  Then it came to me.  "Just promise me one thing--one thing--on the morning of April 28, you HAVE to be especially careful!  At about 9:00, the plane is going to stall, it's going to crash, and you won't survive.  You must not let that happen--promise me!  Don't do anything that will make that plane stall!  You have to promise me!"

He looked shocked at what I had said, but he said, "I understand.  I promise.  I won't let it happen."  He pulled me into his arms and held me tight.  He felt so warm and strong.  He said, "Don't you worry.  I'll never leave you."

I woke up at that point.  The first thing that came into my head was, "I wonder if it worked!  I wonder if I saved him!  He could be alive now!  Any minute the phone will ring, and it will be him, just as always, and we really will talk about getting married."

I believed it so completely for a few moments.  He had promised me.  His eyes and his embrace had been so sincere and earnest and reassuring.  But then reality began to sink back in.  I looked at the mantle over my fireplace.  All the mementos of his death and absence were still there... the sympathy cards, the Bible I'd bought myself, the votive candles, the pretty carved wood birds my grief counselor had given to me as a gift when I told her how birds were significant to Patrick and me and our relationship.  

Nothing had changed at all.  God, in those moments, waking life felt like it bore the mass of the entire universe, and all of it was upon me, and I just couldn't take it.  I've never felt so helpless and weak.  I've gotten to where it happens quite often that I'll be having such a wonderful happy dream, and in the middle of the dream, I suddenly become aware of the awful reality that he's dead.  But none of them have hurt as much as this.  It's bothered me all day long. *sigh*  This is what I mean by it not being just a dream.  It was all too real while it lasted.  So real that I was sure it had leaked into "this reality."  If only things were that simple...

[Telos]

That was amazing.

I don't envy you, AMM. I have had enough of those morning feelings you described to imagine a smidgin of how you might feel.

But you're lucky, I think. It is not easy for some people to be as in touch with their dreams as you are with yours. You have an opportunity here.

Then next time you see him, or the next time you are conscious in a dream, ask him if he knows that he is dead. Confide in him with your thoughts and feelings about this as you would have before about anything else. Let him know how much his death troubles you.

This is only a suggestion. I understand that it might take great courage to face what he might have to say - but, to me, you seem to have already demonstrated great courage by dealing with these other dream experiences.

[knightlight]

oooo i am in tears!     Very touching...  I dont know if I could handle such an experience.   I congratulate you on your courage and I think the fact that you have such a strong link to him in your dreams is a wonderful sign!!!!!  I cant stress this enough.  You seem to have amazing dreams of him holding you and confessing his love.  That is all he can give to you now.  I am sure in his life after life he is thinking of you every day and reaching out to you in these dreams.  His eyes are full of tears like yours, wishing you where with him.  Such is life.  Rejoice in your love for him and the love he shares with you after.  Through these dreams you have an everlasting connection.  Dont let the bad things erase the connection!  When he holds you hold him like you never held him before.  Love him more than ever in these dreams.  Dont let the past get in the way.  Love to you and yours!

[Heather B.]

Thank you for the replies.  I do cherish every time, and every manner, that I still have contact with him, even if it's confusing or strange or sad.  

Although I felt very sad and hopeless at first, what has really stayed with me was the feeling of his arms and his last words... "Don't you worry.  I'll never leave you."  I think that's the most important thing.  And I feel like it's true, that he hasn't really left me--only physically, but not in any other way.  

I feel his presence often, in the course of ordinary waking life.  But then sometimes, I don't feel it, maybe because I am so involved in "business as usual" that I just don't pick up the feeling.  I've been feeling especially lonely and heartsick lately, so maybe this dream was just a way of letting me know that he is still here for me.

I guess the main thing is that it lifts my sprits and gives me extra energy and strength to keep on keeping on... I'm grateful for every bit of it I can get.

[David Warner]

Almost Mrs. Murphy,

Its possible that you might have helped your fiancee along the way by retrieving him. A friend of mine who executes retrievals all the time mentioned that it can be real hard on the person who passed when you come out and say " You are Dead".  I made this mistake many times in the past and learned.

To question the person in the astral about their reality and if they understand about physical and astral life. Feel their expressions, emotions and see if they understand about  their present status of passing.  It almost has to be done delicately.

I really hope you can help your fiancee and find peace within your heart. My condolence,sympathy, and prayer goes out to you and both families.

I've heard of Bruce Moen's is excellent reading for retrievals which I will embark on reading after I get past Robert Bruce's astral dynamics. I'm sure there wil be alot to learn.

Tvos

[Heather B.]

Thanks for the insight and the condolences, TVOS.  Retrieval is definitely something I'm interested in (must get my hands of some Moen books).  

However, my past experiences make me think that he does know that he's dead, and he has moved safely to the Transition Area or whatever.  His death was very sudden--which concerned me a bit--but he always expected that he could die the way he did, so I guess it wasn't so shocking to him.  Almost immediately after his passing, I had a lot of very vivid encounters with him, which involved him visiting me, telling me that everything is fine, he's doing well, he loves me, and he can see me all the time now (good because we had spent quite a bit of time working in different cities).  

This happened repeatedly several times (haha, he knows how hard-headed I can be! ).  He always looked so happy, peaceful, radiant, and perfectly healthy.  Always had a glow about him, but was solid enough for me to feel and hold on to, always warm.  

And then one night I had the most amazing experience, which I believe was an honest-to-God phase, even though it just happened while I was sleeping.  In it, at one point, I called his name, and he appeared.  I asked him to take me to where he was living now, and suddenly, we were in this incredibly radiant place I can only guess was "Heaven."  He really believed in Heaven, so I'm sure that's where he ended up.

If you've not seen them, here are some of my 1st posts, for reference:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=167602&highlight=#167602

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=167682&highlight=#167682

Thanks again!

[Telos]

I keep forgetting that the word "dead" has different connotations for me than it does for others. I have never experienced difficulty talking to characters about death. As I understand that nature is more than a life/death distinction they seem to automatically recognize it as well, sometimes even better. As a result I've never thought "soul retrievals" benefit anyone anyone other than the person doing the retrieving.

Let me retract my suggestion.

[David Warner]

Telos,

Image if someone came up to you and explained you've passed on, you are no longer of the physical world. The only contact you have to offer is through dreams. Your loved ones, family, friends do not project and dismiss your contact as a dream. You put countless amounts of energy into this and fail.

I believe retrievals should be done delicately and not erupt, in your face mentality. It could send the departed person into a world of hurt, hell, or land them unconsciously for ages because of the shock.

The retrieval benefits both giver and recipient. On a spiritual level, godly and caring. It is good to see AMM helping her fiancee along the way. They are both learning and helping one another get through their pain.

Tvos

[Telos]

Image if someone came up to you and explained you've passed on...

I'd give it very serious consideration, examining the evidence, my memory, etc.


It is very difficult to separate your philosophy from your suggestions, Tvos. I don't believe I can offer a critical reply without making it seem to you that I am offending you some way. But I'll try anyways.

You seem to suggest that, after one dies, they might persist in having an experience of time alongside the living. Worse, they may not know that this is the case, for somehow their memory has ceased to function properly, and they do not know that they are dead nor do they have a sense of continuity in their new existence. In which case their self has become so nullified and inconsistent that they are like pulverized ships after falling off of the edge of a flat Earth.

So we should retrieve them from the depths. Not only is this an event in time, you say that there should be a retrieval process, having a beginning, middle, and end. And that there is an effective or ineffective way of doing it. You suggest that it is complex and difficult, prone to be disasterous for both parties if one does not know what he or she is doing.

By your insistence that it's possible to "land someone unconsciously for ages," unintentionally at that, I am half-tempted to do it! To show you that you might be deeply wrong, Tvos, in some way or another, and that your view of death is anachronistic, like the flat Earth.

You assume a great a deal. I really feel sorry for you... for you seem to have lost the ability to learn outside of your philosophical interpretations.

[David Warner]

Telos,

You're always the critic in your replies and no you don't offend me at all. I welcome your objectives.

I'm still new to this retrieval process so what do I (truly) know about this and assume? All I can say is for the record, if someone came up to me and said "Tvos, you've passed on" I think it would be a shock and the first thing that would come to mind is letting my wife/family know that I'm all right.

Just because I suggest something doesn't mean its written in stone. We are here to learn and help one another along our paths and not to criticize. I've always been a believer in helping the next person outside of "me".

Tvos

[Leyla]

This posts interested me, as I am studying and trying to become a flight attendant.

The job, as I have learned, really has nothing to do with handing out peanuts, as flight attendants are actually highly trained emergency personel.  CPR, and all that.

The job is to ensure the saftey of the passengers, and you are expected to get every last person out of the sinking/flaming plane before you can save yourself.

After the events of Sept 11th, they have added further to this training and I will have to take self-defense training specialized to the tools available inside the plane. (hot pot of coffie?)

The techniques are very secretive, and I will have to sign a form. They cannot be leaked to the public, or else the terrorists will be ready for us.

The pilots are now locked behind steel doors requiring several passcodes. This means I am the only thing standing between my passengers and the terrorists.

I am expected to save their lives, even at the expense of my own.

Insanely enough, I am still willing to do this.  I don't know why. I know the risks. It's not likely something will happen. But if it does....I say it's Gods plan. I would want my loved ones to know I accepted it.

I know Patrick knew the risks. They make them very clear. He died doing what he loved.

[Heather B.]

I have a huge respect for flight attendants... I can just imagine what kind of training they must go through, especially these days.

Patrick always did the dangerous types of jobs: cloud-seeding amid developing thunderstorms, for example.  And inspecting pipelines, which is what he was doing when they crashed (actually he was training with an older pilot at the time--they both died).

He knew the risks, and was always saying, "When it's my time, it's my time."  I knew the risks too, and it worried me sometimes, but I couldn't ask him not to fly, because I knew how passionate he was about it.

[David Warner]

AMM,

I've always enjoyed sky-diving (even thought I jumped once tandem 3) 3 miles up. It's so beautiful and you're flying  in the air. Nothing on this earth can beat the physical experience (not even a roller coaster) IMO.

If I had the opportunity and knew I was going to pass onto the next - that would be my wish. Jumping out of the plane and flying with the wind to the astral.

Tvos

[Heather B.]

Where did you go sky-diving?  Patrick worked as a skydiving pilot in Michigan one summer.  I think it was his least favorite job.  He never did understand why anyone would want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.

[David Warner]

AMM,

Marine City north of Detroit. This was back in '94' that I sky-dived. Just glad that the chute opened..:) It was totally awesome and when the chute did open, it turned into a swing where I could sit down and guide towards my target. It was like being on top of the world on a swing set - with trees, building, the ground, people, underneath you. What a experience!

Tvos

[James S]

A couple of things have come to mind while reading this topic.

Just because a departed soul still comes by to visit someone, either in their dreams or their waking life, doesn't mean they need retrieval. Loved ones who have crossed over will often stay with us, sometimes for the rest of our lives, giving us comfort and support. It's their way of expressing their love for us. Remember also that the "afterlife" is outside of time. There's no time limits for them where they are.

The only limitations they have seems to be the ammount of what could best be described as "personal energy" they have. A person who was very energetic and full of life in this world, always seems to be able to come through much clearer to us after they've crossed over than someone who was quiet, timid or inactive.

Departed souls that do require retrieval are very easy to spot, as they are confused, often frightened. I helped a 10 year old girl who had died in a house fire to cross over a few months ago. She was very timid, almost afraid to speak, and kept asking if we'd seen her parents, as she couldn't find them (they were still alive). It wasn't until we were able to comfort her, and call in some helpers from the other side that she was able to cross over.

As opposed to this, I was able to contact my brother just after he had died. He was in a wonderful place, excited with all the adventure he had before him. He told me he'd be off exploring for a while, then he was gone. A few months ago, after two years had passed, he returned, and has been visiting me in my dreams fairly regularly. He's happy, and not at all confused about his situation.

I have also spoken with my wife's departed mother, who comes by regularly to look out for her daughters. My wife feels her presence when she's there - sometimes she'll just stop what she's doing, look up and smile knowingly. Her mother had died in a car accident, and was reported to have had a very serene look on her face when she died. She knew exactly what was going on, and from the conversation I had with her, she's taken much pleasure from being around watching her daughters grow up.

The idea that a spirit goes into some kind of waiting area after they cross over, or that they have only so long before having to reincarnate, is simply the realm of religious belief systems. When you actually get in contact with departed souls, you realise that they are very much in control of their own actions and decisions.

Almost Mrs. Murphy,
Especially considering the intensity of the dream you had, I think it safe to say that your departed fiance is indeed visiting you. Just because it happens in a dream doesn't make the encounter any less real or valid. It's quite common for departed loved ones to come to us in dreams. It's one of the few times most people are able to be sensitive to energies from the other side. Take it as the blessing it is meant to be - that your fiance is indeed still with you, and is looking out for you.

Blessings,
James.

[Leyla]

From what I've heard, it is very common for a departed spouse/fiance to play matchmaker from the other side.  They don't want you to be alone, and often pick somebody out, and send them to you.

I'm pretty sure that after an appropriate period of time that is bound to happen in this case.

[James S]

You're quite right there Leyla, and you've made a very important point.

For those of us still of flesh and blood, this material existance still goes on.
The love of those close to us that have passed on is such that they dearly desire to see us grab hold of as much joy in life as we can.

My wife's father experienced exactly that when he remarried. My wife seemed to feel a great happiness, as if she could feel how happy her mother was that her father had found a new partner in life.

Blessings,
James.

[Heather B.]

Thanks for your insights, James.  I think the dream was meant to help me take another step towards confronting and accepting his death.  I think maybe he came to "lighten the blow" a bit and to leave me with some comfort through the pain.  I still carry around with me all the times he's been with me... not just dreams, but all kinds of other little signs, or just a sense of his presence, like your wife has when her mother is near.

Leyla, I've heard that as well, that deceased lovers/spouses will play matchmaker.  I hear members of my widow/er support group talk about that.  I'm open to it, if it happens.  They say that over time, as you heal, your heart expands so that it can hold a new love as well as your old love.  I like that idea.

[David Warner]

AMM,

Do you talk with your support group about astral projection? Are the other members in the group interested or do they look the other way as an escape from the tragedy?

Who else knows that you project within your family? Have you conversed with Patricks parents about this?

Tvos

[Heather B.]

Well, the only people with whom I've discussed this are my father and my sister... they are both psychic and believe in it--my sister often visits with our grandmother, with whom she was especially close, and my father has had encounters with his parents and other loved ones.  I have talked about it with a mutual friend of Patrick and me, as well.  But I am really not close with his parents; he wasn't very close with them either, not as much as he would have liked to be.  

I have mentioned it to some members of my online support group... I've even referred some of them to this forum.  I don't know if they have visited, or taken it seriously or not.

[David Warner]

AMM,

Its easy for people to dismiss astral projection as a lucid dream, facade or hallucination and especially with the loss of a loved one. In your support group has the topic ever been touched about astral projection?

I know you would want to ruffle any feathers with the other members, but that's something that might help and aid.

Just a thought!

Tvos