Visiting the Lower Heavens

[shineling]

I talked to my Sant Mat teacher a few days ago and he told me the places I've been visiting are probably the Lower Heavens.

The Lower Heavens are the places 99.999% of people go to when they die. All the Higher-Heavens are protected by gateways who are protected by Guardians. Before entering the Higher Heavens for the first time you'll need to be tested. It really helps to come with a letter of recommendation. That is why I'm into Sant Mat. Their whole philosophy deals with the mechanics of Heaven. A real Sant Mat teacher will absorb your karma and show you to these gateways. He does this by "picking you up" when you are asleep or meditating. It takes a Master undoubtedly.

Anyway... I've been visiting the Lower Heavens while I astral project on my own sometimes at night. They can be beautiful. Everything shines about 2 or 3 shades lighter than where we are here: this cruel physical reality.

They have cities, and subways, and music clubs, movies, and things to do instead of eating, and tons of different amazing wacky stuff you can't imagine! It's a fun place to visit except for a nasty little game they play.

You see... everyone on the Lower Heavens it pretty much stuck there. Most of them eventually last a few years, many a century, before they drift back down to a physical reality and are born again. This is good and bad. While nobody wants to leave Heaven - even a lower one - being born again allows us to work a lot more on our spiritual development. Physical reality is REAL as in things go "bump" and this is where most progress can be made on our spiritual progress. YOu can do this in the Lower Heavens but it's a lot more difficult. Things change so much... it's not a really stable place to practice.

So these nasty games they play in the Lower Heavens... When a "higher-up" is seen in the Lower Heavens everyone wants to steal his key or magic. It's almost a primitive instinct. The techniques to do this are on an amazing complexity by now. It's very sick in a way.

So if you find yourself in the Lower Heavens best thing to do is try to scampper off to a deserted area so you won't attract attention. Definately don't use your magic or you will attract people to you. I've done this numerous times believing I was in a dream of my making (but wasn't) and ended up being hounded and taken in to their facility for dealing with "higher-ups". They are interrogated etc. It's a digusting process I had to endure once. It never goes anywhere and you eventually just wake up from the exhaustion of being poked, proded, and pulled.

It's still a fascinating place to visit. I sat through one of their movies once and was awed. They have the same stuff we do but much better! At least in an eye-candy kind of way. If it wasn't for me being so shiny I could of stayed longer and blended in.

Anyways... I guess my motivation to write this is for someone here on Earth to read it and get a Sant Mat teacher. I know a few religions... but this one deals exclusively with Heaven. It's the closest thing I've come to a real spiritual practice. So hopefully you can find a Teacher too. He can take you all the way Up. So when you die you'll be able to pass the gateways into the Higher Heavens where the real beauty is. Oh... it's so beautiful. And not get stuck in the Lower Heavens... which although 2 or 3 grades brighter than our world are still problematic and full of mean selfish people.

[shineling]

I forgot... The very best book for beginners of Sant Mat is called "The Path of the Masters" by Julian Johnson M.D.

[rangestormer]

So, what happened with your soul travel back in time? Are you still trying?

[shineling]

No, my teacher told me not to try that anymore or it could lead to attachements of all kinds. Although I think it's certianly possible it's a worthless pursuit from the point of view of going to a higher plane.

[Xanth]

I talked to my Sant Mat teacher a few days ago and he told me the places I've been visiting are probably the Lower Heavens.

Lower heavens...
Lower astral...
Lower branch Focus 3 oC...
Focus 23, 24, 25, 26...

They have many names these days. 

The Lower Heavens are the places 99.999% of people go to when they die. All the Higher-Heavens are protected by gateways who are protected by Guardians. Before entering the Higher Heavens for the first time you'll need to be tested. It really helps to come with a letter of recommendation. That is why I'm into Sant Mat. Their whole philosophy deals with the mechanics of Heaven. A real Sant Mat teacher will absorb your karma and show you to these gateways. He does this by "picking you up" when you are asleep or meditating. It takes a Master undoubtedly.

He might be referring to areas of consciousness beyond what Frank labeled Focus 4 oC.
Whereby I don't think it's really gateways protected by guardians, as much as areas of consciousness beyond human understanding.

Anyway... I've been visiting the Lower Heavens while I astral project on my own sometimes at night. They can be beautiful. Everything shines about 2 or 3 shades lighter than where we are here: this cruel physical reality.

This is something I can really attest to.  Everything is so much more vivid and beautiful.

They have cities, and subways, and music clubs, movies, and things to do instead of eating, and tons of different amazing wacky stuff you can't imagine! It's a fun place to visit except for a nasty little game they play.

I haven't visited any cities yet, but from what I have seen... the green fields sitting under the sparkling blue sky was awe inspiring. 

You see... everyone on the Lower Heavens it pretty much stuck there. Most of them eventually last a few years, many a century, before they drift back down to a physical reality and are born again. This is good and bad. While nobody wants to leave Heaven - even a lower one - being born again allows us to work a lot more on our spiritual development. Physical reality is REAL as in things go "bump" and this is where most progress can be made on our spiritual progress. YOu can do this in the Lower Heavens but it's a lot more difficult. Things change so much... it's not a really stable place to practice.

I see it as the opposite...
Yes, they're "stuck" in these lower areas (lower and higher being subjective terms though), but I believe you do eventually move "up" before you can come back here to the physical reality.

So these nasty games they play in the Lower Heavens... When a "higher-up" is seen in the Lower Heavens everyone wants to steal his key or magic. It's almost a primitive instinct. The techniques to do this are on an amazing complexity by now. It's very sick in a way.

I've read the opposite.
In most cases, the people down there don't even recognize that a helper/guide/whatever has come down.

So if you find yourself in the Lower Heavens best thing to do is try to scampper off to a deserted area so you won't attract attention. Definately don't use your magic or you will attract people to you. I've done this numerous times believing I was in a dream of my making (but wasn't) and ended up being hounded and taken in to their facility for dealing with "higher-ups". They are interrogated etc. It's a digusting process I had to endure once. It never goes anywhere and you eventually just wake up from the exhaustion of being poked, proded, and pulled.

This actually sounds very much like a Focus 2 oC scenario that you did create yourself... and the fear of what would happen if you "used magic" just fueled exactly what you expected to see.

Anyways... I guess my motivation to write this is for someone here on Earth to read it and get a Sant Mat teacher. I know a few religions... but this one deals exclusively with Heaven. It's the closest thing I've come to a real spiritual practice. So hopefully you can find a Teacher too. He can take you all the way Up. So when you die you'll be able to pass the gateways into the Higher Heavens where the real beauty is. Oh... it's so beautiful. And not get stuck in the Lower Heavens... which although 2 or 3 grades brighter than our world are still problematic and full of mean selfish people.

I'll say this...
I'm glad that you found something here on Earth that you feel has given you growth. 
Not many people can actually, honestly say that.

[horaciocs]

How long have you been into Sant Mat?

[rangestormer]

No, my teacher told me not to try that anymore or it could lead to attachements of all kinds. Although I think it's certianly possible it's a worthless pursuit from the point of view of going to a higher plane.

At least, someone thinks it is possible. I tried contacting you about this by PM, I would to hear more.

[rem]

Whats a sant mat teacher?

Is it a spirit that teaches? not so long ago, someone made me obe in my sleep, it was quite persistent, i talked it over with a friend quite experienced, and he said it was a higher being that wanted to teach me.

Maybe it was a sant mat teacher?

[shineling]

This actually sounds very much like a Focus 2 oC scenario that you did create yourself... and the fear of what would happen if you "used magic" just fueled exactly what you expected to see.

I hope that is the case. It's happened to me more than a few times. But it was SO real and such an elaborate drama is the thing that worries me.

Anyways... I do hope to pass straight into the higher planes when my time eventually comes. 

Whats a sant mat teacher?

It's actually a religion that parallels many eastern religions. But they believe in One God. The ulitmate God, the ulitmate Heaven. Beyond beyond beyond. THE Heaven. Look it up -- Sant Mat. It's not too popular but it's the one for me. With the help of my teacher and his techniques I have been past the lower heavens into Ananda as they call it - the first great division of Heaven. It's indescribably beautiful with no spaces and no darkness and so incredibly bright like a big 1000 lotus city of light. At the same time there is something so like we've been here before or something.

Many of Sant Mat's meditation techniques deal with the Audible Life Stream. You focus on your sense of inner hearing until you literally hear the sound of the Universe. It sounds like a river flowing which turns to music -- literally. And you follow the sound all the way to God. Personally... I'm stuck at the threshhold of entering Brahmand. Which is the 2nd division of a higher heaven before going all the way into Sat Desh - the Highest division of Heaven. So there are gateways you need to pass through.

So it's a religion based on the Masters who are regular humans with incredible gifts. The teachings are passed on from the Master to his chosen deciple. Usually there is only one. It's supposedly the secret doctrine of Heaven. 

I went to India about 10 years ago with an old friend of my father's who was also a follower of Sant Mat. I was curious about my spiritual awakening and my Dad told me about his work friend so I was very lucky to find this path.

According to Sant Mat its ~the~ path. The Golden Path. The Path of the Masters. The Path of the Saints. And yet it not be called Sant Mat or prioritized into it's "own" religion. It's the religion of the Universe itself. The first religion.

[rem]

Well, maybe you are right, but what you say about that religion, doesnt sound any different from what the Christians and catholics say about their own.

And i dont want to atack your religion or anything, but my opinion is, that sant mat is probably just another religion that makes you believe in something that you will eventually find when you die, cause thats what you expect, like you could end in a " Higher plane" when you are actually in a special kind of hollow heaven suited the sant mat belief.

Not a way o be sure.

[horaciocs]

Well, maybe you are right, but what you say about that religion, doesnt sound any different from what the Christians and catholics say about their own.

And i dont want to atack your religion or anything, but my opinion is, that sant mat is probably just another religion that makes you believe in something that you will eventually find when you die, cause thats what you expect, like you could end in a " Higher plane" when you are actually in a special kind of hollow heaven suited the sant mat belief.

Not a way o be sure.

I think that, as long as there is practice on calming the mind and focusing your thoughts, it's worth giving a try. If you see you'll end up on a limiting BST, then all it takes is a change of mind to get you out of it. Easier than knowing exactly how the universe works and not having any mind control.  

If there is no mind control involved, then I think it might be something to keep away from, in my opinion. I found the book shinelling mentioned, it's quite a read (400+ pages), but it seems well structured. I'll try to post the table of contents somewhere.

EDIT: There they go, just follow the filenames 1 through 6 and there's the preface too.

http://s1180.photobucket.com/albums/x412/horaciosalles/AP/

[Everlasting]

never heard of sant mat, lol. sounds like  new age, it seems to me you have visited some random astral realm.

[Naykid]

I've never heard of it either.  And I'm not a too big of a believer in lower or higher level's of heaven... Meh.

[Pauli2]

Hollow Heaven

[shineling]

Well... you could all be right of course. All I can tell you are my direct experiences.

We practice Surat Shabd Yoga which is the highest yoga. The yoga of the Audible Life Stream, the Master force.

I really like religions like Buddhism. I used to be a Buddhist... I guess I still am in a way. But when I got into Sant Mat it cut through all that stuff. I guess because it's so simple and there is no fiddling or "searching in the dark". You get a direct experience always. Not this "I don't exist because the universe is empty" or dharmic stuff like that.

You just meditate on your sense of inner hearing. That's Surat Shabd Yoga. It takes a few weeks to develop - and that's it. It's very easy... and you just follow the sound all the way to the source - God.

It's soo beautiful. You start hearing the most beautiful music. Not imagined or nothing, but real celestial music. Then comes the Light and Sight. You start forgetting your body entirely as you are meditating and then you're there. It might be an excellent alternative or addition to all the exiting techniques out there.

Sant Mat has been around since 13th century. At least that's when it got a name. It was really secretly guarded. That's why nobody knows about it. It's only very very recently (100 years) that the Masters have allowed books to be written about it.  However, Surat Shabd Yoga started back in time immemorial. It not need be a religion. It's the sound... the sound the Universe makes inside you. That sums up the basis of the whole religion besides you know... don't steal, don't kill, don't smoke, don't masturbate too much. lol

In fact, my initiation ceremony only took like 3 hours. I just showed up at the ashram on my appointed day, went through a ritual where my Master explained a few things and that's it. He said I don't need to ever see him again but I am welcomed anytime - the Master force will guide me.

Ok, enuf said. Peace out. 

[personalreality]

does anyone ever consider that you're making your explorations more complicated than they need to be?

perhaps limiting your experience as a result? 

i don't know, just a thought.

carry on.

[rem]

and this master of yours, how do you communicate with him? by email? or you guys OBE together?

[Naykid]

Master....  Muhahahahahahaha   

It will be a cold day in hell when I call someone Master.

[Xanth]

Master....  Muhahahahahahaha   

It will be a cold day in hell when I call someone Master.

Usually it's a sign of respect... not a condition of slavery. 

[Naykid]

Not when it comes to teaching someone something.  In this case it seems mandatory, which I dislike.  Are you going to lock this topic too because I disagree with you?

[personalreality]

I'm totally with you on this one Nay.

Even when I'm in a relationship with a teacher, I would expect a mutual respect.  So if I'm gonna call them master they can call me master.

[Xanth]

Not when it comes to teaching someone something.  In this case it seems mandatory, which I dislike.

That's fine, you don't have to agree.
But it's the same thing as me calling my Martial Arts instructor "Sensei".

Are you going to lock this topic too because I disagree with you?

Do you not read the rules?
You don't talk about LockClub! 

[blis]

I remember hearing my dad mention the name at some point but I didnt know any more than that.

Sound interesting. I've found the book. Going to have a look at it.

[engagement]

I talked to my Sant Mat teacher a few days ago and he told me the places I've been visiting are probably the Lower Heavens.

The Lower Heavens are the places 99.999% of people go to when they die. All the Higher-Heavens are protected by gateways who are protected by Guardians. Before entering the Higher Heavens for the first time you'll need to be tested. It really helps to come with a letter of recommendation. That is why I'm into Sant Mat. Their whole philosophy deals with the mechanics of Heaven. A real Sant Mat teacher will absorb your karma and show you to these gateways. He does this by "picking you up" when you are asleep or meditating. It takes a Master undoubtedly.

Anyway... I've been visiting the Lower Heavens while I astral project on my own sometimes at night. They can be beautiful. Everything shines about 2 or 3 shades lighter than where we are here: this cruel physical reality.

They have cities, and subways, and music clubs, movies, and things to do instead of eating, and tons of different amazing wacky stuff you can't imagine! It's a fun place to visit except for a nasty little game they play.

You see... everyone on the Lower Heavens it pretty much stuck there. Most of them eventually last a few years, many a century, before they drift back down to a physical reality and are born again. This is good and bad. While nobody wants to leave Heaven - even a lower one - being born again allows us to work a lot more on our spiritual development. Physical reality is REAL as in things go "bump" and this is where most progress can be made on our spiritual progress. YOu can do this in the Lower Heavens but it's a lot more difficult. Things change so much... it's not a really stable place to practice.

So these nasty games they play in the Lower Heavens... When a "higher-up" is seen in the Lower Heavens everyone wants to steal his key or magic. It's almost a primitive instinct. The techniques to do this are on an amazing complexity by now. It's very sick in a way.

So if you find yourself in the Lower Heavens best thing to do is try to scampper off to a deserted area so you won't attract attention. Definately don't use your magic or you will attract people to you. I've done this numerous times believing I was in a dream of my making (but wasn't) and ended up being hounded and taken in to their facility for dealing with "higher-ups". They are interrogated etc. It's a digusting process I had to endure once. It never goes anywhere and you eventually just wake up from the exhaustion of being poked, proded, and pulled.

It's still a fascinating place to visit. I sat through one of their movies once and was awed. They have the same stuff we do but much better! At least in an eye-candy kind of way. If it wasn't for me being so shiny I could of stayed longer and blended in.

Anyways... I guess my motivation to write this is for someone here on Earth to read it and get a Sant Mat teacher. I know a few religions... but this one deals exclusively with Heaven. It's the closest thing I've come to a real spiritual practice. So hopefully you can find a Teacher too. He can take you all the way Up. So when you die you'll be able to pass the gateways into the Higher Heavens where the real beauty is. Oh... it's so beautiful. And not get stuck in the Lower Heavens... which although 2 or 3 grades brighter than our world are still problematic and full of mean selfish people.

Hierachy nonsense. There is no ascending or descending only the acceptance that you are that which you think you are separated from

[Fresco]

Lower heavens...
Lower astral...
Lower branch Focus 3 oC...
Focus 23, 24, 25, 26...

They have many names these days.  

I just recently found out that lower as well as upper astral planes go on forever.  Its infinite the depths of the lower atsral planes, and vice versa for how high you can go in the upper astral world.  The worst of the worst of humanity (Hitler types) would go into the extreme astral depths but whats fascinating is there's even deeper levels than that.  Probably places you dont wanna wind up