what happened?

[indian]

Thank you Indian : )
So my question is that when you daydream a whole scene from your mind and you play with that scene, those words connect strongly with me since that's pretty much all I do / did before.
And you are saying that this is the same principle, but hmm. I guess I need a verification on when do I know if I'm out if I don't feel anything, beside a shift in focus?

Like Stookie said, I have used daydreaming phrase just to make you understand the thought process. In day dreaming we jump from here to there while in phasing we will concentrate on one single act. For example: One of my technique what I use often, I assume myself sitting on the couch and then I start rubbing the handrest, I feel the fabric while rubbing and slowly I get so involve in that rubbing session and phase out.

Almost same technique, I assume myself in a park, bare foot on grass and starts feeling the grass, the coldness of grass, the air, the touch on my foot and slowly I phase out.

Isn't that simple enough? You can try some different methods. My methods may look absurd, but I have good sense of touching, so I always try that

but that still takes me to, hey wait a minute where am I, I need to "wake" myself up and realize that I am out of my body and get in the the real time zone and then move on to where ever I want to go?

Yes.

I'm trying my best I can to grasp and understand (and I do). You have explained it very well and clear so you don't have to be offended or anything (some people do, when they explain well to people and people still don't get it) ^^ I just haven't projected yet so I'm guessing ahead here : )

No, I don't get offended like that. In fact I read your reply very carefully and try to help you as much as i can. I also understand that sometimes we all get frustrated when we do not reach anywhere. But be patience, you are on RIGHT path.

But when you phase? do you actually go to sleep? I mean do you fall to sleep so to speak? like if I were to hit you with a bat and knock you out kind of sleep? or do you have that little awareness deep down inside lurking which knows that every other system is down and can now go out on adventures? or maybe I shouldn't even start on that path?

Let me explain it in a bit different way. When you ask "I can go out now" what you mean by that? If I understand you correctly, I think you understand that you are not the body. You are "Awareness". When your body sleeps, you are neither out nor in. you are just "You". So going out or going in is not the right word to use. When your body sleeps and you reach on right focus, you become awareness. So whenever you want to focus this awareness, you can. You can go to moon or mars wherever you like. You just need to have the right "Intention". So basically that "Awareness" goes, not body or any kind of soul or something like that.  But it does feel like LIVE experience as you live while awake.

Gonna go and read franks manual now : )

Best thing, he is MASTER in explaining this.


Let me know if anymore help needed.

Regards

[G01kur_Kisel]

Like Stookie said, I have used daydreaming phrase just to make you understand the thought process. In day dreaming we jump from here to there while in phasing we will concentrate on one single act. For example: One of my technique what I use often, I assume myself sitting on the couch and then I start rubbing the handrest, I feel the fabric while rubbing and slowly I get so involve in that rubbing session and phase out.

Almost same technique, I assume myself in a park, bare foot on grass and starts feeling the grass, the coldness of grass, the air, the touch on my foot and slowly I phase out.

Gonna make a few statements of mine just to clarify what I mean.

daydreaming – when you make up a entire scenario from a movie or fantasy that you wish to relive/live in, (more often than less ) you are within the scenario. It is most likely to be like a movie/dream in your head where you are observing. There of the term dreaming.

Visualization – a sort of a daydream but much more controlled and focused, it has (more often than less often ) a purpose, a repetition, but can also be a trigger into a daydream.

Imagination – a lesser form of visualization, a sort of pre-state into visualization. Often lots of imaginations tend to lead into a visualization. Example, Imagine a house, that you are sitting in, in front of you is a fire, there are other people in the room. This can quickly turn into a visualization or daydream. The line is thin. 

If you are saying what I think you are saying, than your method is not that far from the classic AP.
Let us compare

AP and phasing requires relaxation.
(although I'm suspecting that since it is just a shift in focus/awareness one might perhaps not have to be in a deep trance, but that's probably on a insane master level)

AP and phasing requires imagination/visualization
(although there is a slight difference in the approach)

AP and phasing requires observation, draw attention from your body
(although some AP techniques can be misleading into focusing your awareness back to you body)

So if I have understood all of the information I've gathered correctly this is my conclusion.

In Ap one should be relaxed, calm, choose a technique and stick with
it. The reason for that is because it draws attention from you body
to you consciousness. When you reach that deep trance state it's a
indication that you have switch focus, you are in a different state.

What most people do and what I myself have noticed is that the shift
itself draws your attention which may break the whole thing. Actually
if you read what to expect from manuals and books that theses states
are to come, once they do you acknowledge them which draws your
attention which in fact it should not.

This leads to one of your previous comments Indian of unlearn
everything you have learned OR one have become so experienced that
these states are now so acknowledged and a few people who successfully
do project are aware of these states and sensations but remain
uninterested and just observe / don't' loose focus.

From what I can gather, Once you reach the trance state you shouldn't
even be aware of it and this is where phasing and AP meet.

You are to be so deeply rooted in your visualization / observation
that nothing else matters. Like you Stookie  said before, you shouldn't
care if you fall asleep or not.

In phasing you are just to observe, observe what? observe nothing and everything but not actively engage your mind in things like hey it feels very dark and empty here, no these thoughts might arise but they are only subjective and from within. This is pretty much meditation so I won't go into that any further. I think Indian covered it pretty well. After a while of phasing images or scenarios start to appear, you might see some objects or get involved in something but still you just observe. Until you forget your body, your breath, that you are sleeping, and that it is you, inside there and suddenly, perhaps you are? sound familiar?

the goal is to forget about your body, or perhaps not try but just be wrapped up in your fantasy and not to trying since that would be trying.  And this is my limit of experience.

If AP is done (from what I can acknowledge ) correctly then it's no different from Phasing. Because all exit techniques ( shift of focus ) all include visualization. Visualize that you are rolling out of your body, visualize that you are climbing a rope, or rubbing you hands in your couch. It is as it is written, a shift of focus. You have to become it!

So in theory you could chose e technique that mixes both ( which aren't different ) I imagine myself swinging in the neighbors swing. Which should create the sensation of being someplace else (phasing ) and the sensation of energy bouncing from the swing ( AP ) and perhaps in theory you could successfully project into that spot?

Now some questions.

Here is the hard part. or perhaps it isn't maybe I just had the wrong approach at it from the start. How can you stay as an observer if you are actively trying to imagine up a scene?
Example: when you rub your hands together in the couch.

But as I was writing it I might have found out the answer. That maybe you just have to be active in the beginning, and then let your imagination take care of the rest, and then you sit back and observe.

Which lead me to this question
How can you remain in control of your imagination if your are just observing?
Which is perhaps the exact thing you shouldn't do? Just observe no matter how different the scenario turned out to be than when you started with the rubbing.

Which leads me to:
then how do you do it? Not letting the fantasy getting out of control? Unless it does.

How can you be sure that it will work?
You can't?

Is it just a matter of practice?

Which leads me to my final question.
Could you please make a breakdown of how exactly it is that you are using your phasing?
What goes through you mind? Or maybe what doesn't as so forth.
It's pretty much to ask and of course you don't have to.

I think I have pretty good grip of the whole picture now. It's like a painting that I have painted for over the 2 weeks of researching, reading, studying and trying to fill the different areas of my painting with knowledge that somehow they all connect. That somehow this end of the painting that I started belongs with this spot here and what do you know, suddenly you can step back and watch the beautiful correlation between all the knowledge you have gathered and it all becomes clear.

Unless the teacher comes and says, nope you've got it all wrong here, it no where near as it should be and pours a bucket of paint over you whole idea. Start from scratch : P

I've spent these 2 weeks no burrowing my head down deep within all materials and picking up the things I felt resonates and this is what I'm bringing out from that hole, my conclusion and statement, which is pretty laughable considering I have not projected.

Ah well, I hope I shed some light for some people at not just myself. Thank you.

PS. Psilibus I love your positive attitude, it makes you feel good about yourself, thanks!

[Xanth]

Gonna make a few statements of mine just to clarify what I mean.

daydreaming – when you make up a entire scenario from a movie or fantasy that you wish to relive/live in, (more often than less ) you are within the scenario. It is most likely to be like a movie/dream in your head where you are observing. There of the term dreaming.

Visualization – a sort of a daydream but much more controlled and focused, it has (more often than less often ) a purpose, a repetition, but can also be a trigger into a daydream.

Imagination – a lesser form of visualization, a sort of pre-state into visualization. Often lots of imaginations tend to lead into a visualization. Example, Imagine a house, that you are sitting in, in front of you is a fire, there are other people in the room. This can quickly turn into a visualization or daydream. The line is thin. 

To me, those three things are exactly the same. 

"classic OBE" and "Phasing" are completely different.
In a classic OBE you have a sense of separation and leaving the body.
You don't get that with Phasing.

~Ryan

[Stookie]

Experience is really the only way. Everything else is anticipation to experience. Get a little under your belt and things will start to roll. Pack too much information about it in your brain and it might just get confusing or overly conceptual, hindering experience. I guess what I'm saying is, don't make it more complicated than it is.

[Xanth]

Experience is really the only way. Everything else is anticipation to experience. Get a little under your belt and things will start to roll. Pack too much information about it in your brain and it might just get confusing or overly conceptual, hindering experience. I guess what I'm saying is, don't make it more complicated than it is.

I think I suffered from that for many years.
Data overload.

[Fresco]

To me, those three things are exactly the same. 

"classic OBE" and "Phasing" are completely different.
In a classic OBE you have a sense of separation and leaving the body.
You don't get that with Phasing.

~Ryan

Xanth, can you travel into the upper astral planes with phasing?? Or can you just do OBE in the RTZ??

[vipassana]

Kisel asked,

"If AP is done (from what I can acknowledge ) correctly then it's no different from Phasing. Because all exit techniques ( shift of focus ) all include visualization. Visualize that you are rolling out of your body, visualize that you are climbing a rope, or rubbing you hands in your couch. It is as it is written, a shift of focus. You have to become it!"

So for everyone reading this who has experienced the "exit" from their body...what is it like and how do you do it? When I have a lucid dream, I feel as though I am already out, I just was never aware of the actual getting out. My problem is my lucid dream experience is limited and I usually blow it pretty quickly because once you realize your consciousness is in another dimension somewhere, it's pretty hard to not be taken over with sheer amazement and excitement. So I end up back in my body with the vibes going on. The problem is, I don't know what to do next. Last night this happened and I laid there trying to increase the vibes as they were not very strong. I found though that I was in a very uncomfortable position and this was too distracting. I had to move. This is usually the situation when I wake up. I'm like laying on my arm or something and that just ruins it for me. And I was extremely hot. That was also very distracting. So anyway, is exiting just like actually getting up? Are you supposed to feel like you are actually moving your arms and legs, or are you supposed to just imagine it. I kind of felt like, as Monroe put it, I was slightly out of phase with my body, but there was nothing I could do to increase that feeling. And the distractions were too much. 

[Xanth]

Xanth, can you travel into the upper astral planes with phasing?? Or can you just do OBE in the RTZ??

Phasing and Classic Projection takes you to the same place.
From there you can do and go where ever you want.

[Fresco]

Phasing and Classic Projection takes you to the same place.
From there you can do and go where ever you want.

OK good, I may just try phasing now.  They say its easier to learn than mediation work

[Xanth]

OK good, I may just try phasing now.  They say its easier to learn than mediation work

I've said it before...
I've been attempting conscious exits for a very long time now, roughly 8 - 10 years, with no success using the 'classic' methods.
I've made more progress in the last 3 weeks practicing Phasing that I did in those last 8 - 10 years of classic methods.

To me, it's much easier...
However, I would like to note that what works for me might not work for others. 
So meh... *hands Fresco a huge grain of salt* 

~Ryan

[Fresco]

I've said it before...
I've been attempting conscious exits for a very long time now, roughly 8 - 10 years, with no success using the 'classic' methods.
I've made more progress in the last 3 weeks practicing Phasing that I did in those last 8 - 10 years of classic methods.

To me, it's much easier...
However, I would like to note that what works for me might not work for others.  

That Raduga guy at www.obe4u.com claims almost anyone can get phasing within their first 10 tries or so:

http://books.obe4u.com/

I'll try it and see what happens.

[Xanth]

That Raduga guy at www.obe4u.com claims almost anyone can get phasing within their first 10 tries or so:

http://books.obe4u.com/

I'll try it and see what happens.

I couldn't take that site very seriously...
I kept watching the video thinking it was some kind of strange sleeping/softcore porn thing.  >_<

[Fresco]

I couldn't take that site very seriously...
I kept watching the video thinking it was some kind of strange sleeping/softcore porn thing.  >_<

He knows how to sell his website 

[Xanth]

He knows how to sell his website 

Well... see... the problem is that's all he's selling.
He's detracting from the very message he's trying to get across.

Example... I didn't hear a single word he said, I kept staring at her butt the entire video.

He would get his point across better without the distractions.

[Fresco]

Xanth???  WTF??
Chat only works 10 percent of the time!!!!!!!!!  Right now I cant log in!

You're the IT guy, fix it will ya!!!! :p

[indian]

Here is the hard part. or perhaps it isn't maybe I just had the wrong approach at it from the start. How can you stay as an observer if you are actively trying to imagine up a scene?
Example: when you rub your hands together in the couch.

You are an observer here, you came in this body to experience and observe. We forgot that we are not the body. Body is just a machine, nothing an inch more than that. This is something like you are sitting in a car and driving and CAR started thinking that "She" is actually everything, but the truth is if you are out from the car, car is dead.

If you start observing your daily life deeply, you will become an observer. For example, if any emotion arises, like you are angry on your friend, instead of getting involved in that anger, just observe it and you will be able to see that you are not the anger. Anger is a property of your body and you can actually observe that. And then a deep insight will arise. This is how enlightened person works in his daily life. Once you become observer, a complete consciousness, total awareness, you become enlightened. This is something a bit deep I am trying to make you understand.
So when you try for phasing, just observe it and you will know it automatically what next. This is not something you need to understand using this conscious mind. You will know how it looks and how it works, so just observe it and become observer. Even if you think that when you create scene you lose your consciousness, then just observe. No need to create any scene; keep looking whatever comes in your mind.

But as I was writing it I might have found out the answer. That maybe you just have to be active in the beginning, and then let your imagination take care of the rest, and then you sit back and observe.
Which lead me to this question
How can you remain in control of your imagination if your are just observing?
Which is perhaps the exact thing you shouldn't do? Just observe no matter how different the scenario turned out to be than when you started with the rubbing.

Yes, you already know the answer, just observe.

Could you please make a breakdown of how exactly it is that you are using your phasing?
What goes through you mind? Or maybe what doesn't as so forth.

Ok I explaining both techniques here, when I create a scene and when I just observe.
1)   When I am tired, I prefer making a scene.
2)   I lie down, just like I got to sleep. In a comfortable position. Usually I lay on my sides (mostly right side).
3)   I give sometime to mind to get still. Like when I lay, there might be so many thoughts going in my mind, I just watch them, I DO not get involved in it. I just observe and within 5 to 10 minutes there will be only one or two thoughts left. If you start observing your thoughts, they disappear. And then there a time comes when you can create a scene. Let your thought get settled first, and then make a scene.
4)   For example, I created a scene; I am sitting on the couch, watching TV. I try to see myself from a distance. Sitting in my living room watching TV. Right now, I will not get a clear picture of myself; it will be kind of blurry or no picture at all. But no worry, just imagine it. And then it starts becoming clear and clear.
5)   Once the picture is a bit clear, I start feeling couch with my palm on it. I start rubbing it. And I do it very gently. NO stress on my mind, with very ease and relaxation.
6)   And within 30 minutes or sometimes less, I phase out. I become the thought.

Second technique (which I use MOST)
1)   I do it when I am relaxed from within and not tired.
2)   I lie down and close my eyes.
3)   Then same thought process above, and I keep observing.
4)   I keep myself within and I just keep looking (not from physical eyes) inside.
5)   I keep noticing blackness and other things, like thought and so on.
6)   I just keep looking, and I get SO involved in this process.
7)   Just keep noticing and don't even think about body or any sensation.
   Then I become a complete observer.
9)   And soon, I experience 3d blackness and then zoom.. I am out.

I tried my best to explain what I do. Please start doing it and then you will know. This is not something which you need to understand using your mind. This is something which you need to experience.
Regards

[vipassana]

If you start observing your daily life deeply, you will become an observer. For example, if any emotion arises, like you are angry on your friend, instead of getting involved in that anger, just observe it and you will be able to see that you are not the anger. Anger is a property of your body and you can actually observe that. And then a deep insight will arise. This is how enlightened person works in his daily life. Once you become observer, a complete consciousness, total awareness, you become enlightened. This is something a bit deep I am trying to make you understand.

I have just recently figured this out and I am using this approach to life. I'm so glad you wrote this because you just validated something HUGE for me. Anger is like a cancer and it will overtake you if you let it. To observe anger, or any other emotion, I first notice it. To separate myself from it is not easy. Once you realize that your body is a vehicle from which you observe and interact with the physical, and you are really your mind and your mind is separate form your body, you start to pay a lot closer attention to your thoughts, at least I do. I believe thoughts and emotions are energy and our bodies, brains in particular, are transmitters and receivers of this energy. There is positive and negative energy. Our brains pick up this energy and our minds interpret it according to our own experiences and beliefs. It's how we make sense of it. Anger is a negative energy that we transmit and receive and then our mind interprets it in many different ways. We use our minds to make our bodies display anger in ways such as violence, putting someone down, and so on. I can't read minds, but I can walk into a room and immediately sense positive or negative energy. The same principle works for positive energy. I also believe there is much more negative energy in the world right now than positive energy and I believe this comes from the collective consciousness of people around the world. My next step is to figure out how to filter out the negative energy and only focus on the positive. It's like panning for gold...you have to sift through a lot of dirt to find the tiny piece of gold. Maybe you have to hold onto those tiny pieces and keep at it. Over time, those tiny pieces build up to the point you no longer have to sift through the dirt anymore. You will have all the gold you could ever want and need. 
Great post Indian! Very informative.