Bathroom trip, the Dream Killer!

[Lionheart]

 I normally would keep this to myself, but I see from looking back in my Dream Log that this happens way to much to be a coincidence, per say and I don't believe in coincidence. Anyways, here's the scenario. I would be totally engaged in a Lucid Dream, everything is running good and I feel I have full control over my actions. Then for some reason I ask if there's a bathroom I could use, or I search out for one. I then will be standing there, going, it becomes "all to real" and I awaken back to the physical. I then get up and use the real bathroom. Now I have found this same scene plays over and over again from almost any Dream scenario or action I am engaged in. It is definitely a Dream stopper. It's like a brain triggered response that you really have to go to the bathroom, but for some reason it takes over the current Dream as well. You would think that your body would just wake you up from the common urge. It's weird how the "idea" shows itself in a Dream. When this occurs I am in full control of the scene, but this impulse is strong enough to take over said scene. What do you think?

[Pauli2]

I'm not sure where your dream ended and what took over. Could you guide us a little more clearly, step by step?
When were you lucid, when were you in regular dream, when did you have false awakening etc.

[Lionheart]

 Ok, here's the Dream, or at least from where I became Lucid in it.
I was on a white motocross bike going down a road. I had a skateboard kind of sashed up against my back. I came across a group of kids skateboarding, they wanted to see what tricks I could do. So, I put the bike down and proceeded to skateboard. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a little boy pick up my bike and start to walk away with it. He had a girl to block his escape as well. I kind of watched in my mind's eye where they were going with it. After I fiinsihed skateboarding, I set out to get my bike back. I went around the corner of the street I was on and saw a run down trailer, together with all the trash, old cars, barrels etc. I knew from watching in my mind's eye previously that they had hidden it in a water tank just beyond the trailer under some old tires. I approached the property and as I did a man came out to meet me. He had scraggly hair, tattoos, kind of a mean looking guy. He asked what I wanted, I said I was looking for my bike. He said didn't know where it was and to leave now. I told him I knew it was here and that's when problems started. It got ugly fast, a buddy of his came out of the trailer and he was a huge biker. This is when I realized I didn't want it to end this way. Time to Re-script this one! So I went back to the start and replayed the scenario over again, now I was experimenting with full control of the situation. At least I had control of my part, but the scenario kept ending in violence. I was trying to solve this without showing that I had any "power" that I wish to end this. I even tried ot appeal to his conscience by telling him that this bike belonged to a sick girl that I bringing it back to. But, it usually ended with me getting mad at them and vaporizing them. So I got an idea and decided to re-script the scene again. This time I approached the Father, I found out later his name was Gus, I told him I knew the bike was there, he said it wasn't, so I levitated the bike out of the water tank into the air over to where we were. He backed up for a minute, but then showed he was rather intrigued by that and so he let his guard down. He invited me into his home, he asked if I wanted a beer and we just sat there talking. Then all of a sudden his biker friend came in, his name was Bruce. Gus told him what had happended out front, but Bruce wasn't impressed at all. He was definitely in confrontational mode. I asked him if he knew where his center of gravity was, he replied no. I asked if I could show him. I then put my 2 hands on his chest, when I did this he pumped up and positioned himself in a stance to throw a punch. I told him to relax, then I lifted him up, using only my 2 hands. I lifted him over my head, then released 1 hand, then got down to 1 finger. I was now balancing his entire frame on one finger. I put him down and told him that this knowledge would help him with his baseball swing. We immediately  became friends and started going through the motions of swinging a bat and seeing how this new info helped him. I then asked if I could use the bathroom, Gus had asked me to do him a favor and show me some other things after I had finished in the bathroom. I walked into the bathroom and went, just as I was going I felt a incredible "real" sensation. I immediately woke up and went to use the real bathroom. Now I had control over this entire scenario all the way to just before I asked to use the bathroom. I never expected to say that at all. But it did fit the scene.
When I did awaken at first in the Lucid Dream, I as just watching what was happening with me riding down the rode on the bike and coming across the kids. From then on I controlled all my responses to the scenario. Between Re-scripting the event there is a small fade to black pause, but you never really awaken. It's kind of like a deeper shift, because the more you recript, the more you have complete control over what you are doing or experimenting with.
There was no False Awakening here. At no time did I see myself waking up and going to my real bathroom here. The bathroom was part of the dream. There was no disconnect at all.

[Xanth]

I normally would keep this to myself, but I see from looking back in my Dream Log that this happens way to much to be a coincidence, per say and I don't believe in coincidence. Anyways, here's the scenario. I would be totally engaged in a Lucid Dream, everything is running good and I feel I have full control over my actions. Then for some reason I ask if there's a bathroom I could use, or I search out for one. I then will be standing there, going, it becomes "all to real" and I awaken back to the physical. I then get up and use the real bathroom. Now I have found this same scene plays over and over again from almost any Dream scenario or action I am engaged in. It is definitely a Dream stopper. It's like a brain triggered response that you really have to go to the bathroom, but for some reason it takes over the current Dream as well. You would think that your body would just wake you up from the common urge. It's weird how the "idea" shows itself in a Dream. When this occurs I am in full control of the scene, but this impulse is strong enough to take over said scene. What do you think?

To me, that just sounds like the normal "I have to go to the bathroom" concept.
This exact thing happens to me quite often too.  Dreaming, Lucid Dreaming, Astral Projecting... it happens during all of them.  It's just your body telling you to take care of issues. 

[Lionheart]

To me, that just sounds like the normal "I have to go to the bathroom" concept.
This exact thing happens to me quite often too.  Dreaming, Lucid Dreaming, Astral Projecting... it happens during all of them.  It's just your body telling you to take care of issues. 

It's a good thing that happens too, lol. I guess the bodily impulse trumps the mental commands. Although it is your body that gives your brain that signal in the first place. I just thought it was weird how it "plays" itself into a part in your Dreams, OBE's, whatever you wish to call it. 

[Pauli2]

Well, Lionheart, you explained a bit more, but part of your text is unstructured
in such a fashion that it could have been written by a kid in 8th grade.

I know we use some words (like ROTE, REBAL, BST, etc) which we seldom
explain in our posts, but as your post is about LDing, perhaps you could have
explained the re-scripting concept at the start. I have not been able to do
anything like that in my short LDs.

I don't know if this way of writing sometimes just seeps in, like the thread where
Contenteo is without answer and Xanth eventually has to run to Contenteo's
rescue, or if it's the result of your or others impatience.

An example of something more structured in a question way, at least in my opinion,
could for example be the thread about "the dream" as a Monroe concept. I did my
best to make it clear what background I arrived from and made the content as
readable & complete as possible.

I don't mind too much new people (skilled as they may be on OBEs) to write simple
thread entries like "Finally managed to fly in my OBE - I have a question", as these
persons sometimes have less than 30 entries into the forum and may not be that
uses to writing something others are expected to read.

I don't know why some posts become this incomplete, sometimes I wonder if it's the
result of Hollywood storylines with incomplete logic, like the recent movie Prometheus?
Perhaps our society has become so used to poor narrative from media, with lack of a
sequence of events in a way which makes sense? (Family Guy being one more example.)

Well, Lionheart, this was a long intro from my part. Please overbear with me, but I had
to mention it at some point in time. I know that sometimes I end up with walls of text
as well, but at least I try to add space (newlines) and keep the right margin not too long.

Here is a suggestion to what I would like to have seen in structure (you may want to
write it in a different way, though), I use triple quotes to start and end the text block:
----------------------------------------------------------------


"""
Hi, I'm Lionheart. I have a question. But first two definitions:

Re-scripting = This is an action which only can be done in an LD. Re-scripting means to
restart part (or the whole) of an LD, just using the ability of your mind. Re-scripting
could be viewed as a kind of "reset". The re-scripting is used when the turn of events
in the LD have reached a state which the person LDing doesn't like. While the re-scripting
takes effect, my dream environment may go black for a short moment (similar to when
you become awake from an LD), and then the LD dream environment comes back.

Tags = In my text below I'll use tags like Zigma, Phi etc. These tags are just a substitute
for names of dream states I really lack names to. But I have to call these dream states
something as they seem different to me, compared to my regular LD state. Don't take the
tag names as having any literal meaning, they could be anything, for example be called
Mary, Jill etc.
--

So much for definitions. Now I'll describe my dream which is the basis for my question and
my dream is needed for your (the reader's) evaluation of my question. It starts like this:

"Regular dream. I'm in a regular dream which turns into an LD.

Lucid dream. I'm now in the LD with fully aware LD awareness. The chain of events turn out
bad, so I re-script the LD. In fact I have to re-script the LD twice. I don't lose my LD awareness
at any time during this stage of the dream.

Lucid dream - altered awareness Sigma. At some point into the LD, I sort of am reduced in LD awareness.
I can't say exactly what kind of awareness I have, but I know something is different, more poor in
terms of lucidity and clearness of mind. I'm in a person's house (a dream character's), and I ask that
person if I can visit his bathroom in the house. I had no intention of asking to go visit the bathroom,
my question came as a complete surprise to me, so perhaps I was not in control any longer in my LD,
and I don't know if I could consider my state of mind to be fully LD aware. The person in the house
allows me to use his bathroom and I start to move towards the bathroom.

Lucid dream - altered awareness Phi. While approaching the bathroom, my impression of my
surroundings change. Or perhaps my awareness changes, I can't really tell. What happens is
nevertheless that my surroundings in the house (and my view of the bathroom door opening)
suddenly feels much more real, and less dream like. The realness feeling is close to the feeling
I have when being in real awake reality. Question is though if I was still having lucidity in the sense
of being in control of knowing where I was and having control over my own action? This may sound
like an incomplete explanation, but that's the best I can type down right now. I really am puzzled.
Though, I manage to enter the bathroom at this altered state of awareness.

Awake. I immediately wake up from the dream and feel an urgent need to go to the bathroom.
I'm fully awake in my physical body in physical reality. I go to the bathroom."
--

Well, this was my (Lionhearts) dream. There was no False Awakening during my dream. At no time did
I see myself waking up (from a third person perspective) and going to my real bathroom in physical
reality. The bathroom was part of the dream until I woke up.

When I became awake, I was awake, and walked to my real bathroom being completely in physical reality.

Here comes my question. What happened to me?
"""
-----------------------------------------------------------


Well, Lionheart. Here is my (Pauli2's) response.

Having listened to several of Buhlman's youtube clips and having read Monroe's & S Muldoon's writings
I make the following assumption and also a fair guess. According to Monroe, Far Journeys, page 78
(Broadway Books edition, 2001 (1985)), he had three bodies; the physical body, a second nonphysical
body close (3-4 inches away) to the physical, and then he had his third nonphysical body from which
he observed the two other bodies.

There are other reports of this, that we have more than one nonphysical body when going OBE, but I'll
stop making book references as everyone keeps coming back, banging me on my head and invalidating
those additional book references as they are "not your own experiences".

Nevertheless, Muldoon introduced the concept "cord-activity range". That means that within that range,
if you become aware in your nonphysical bodies, you will be pulled back into your physical body,
or at least feel the pull of your physical body. If you manage to somehow (Muldoon explains various
methods) manage to move your non-physical body away from you physical body so you get out of
cord-activity range, and then become aware in your non-physical body, you will be able to stay OBE
for quite some time.

Muldoon further explains that when you dream, you have a nonphysical dream body (somewhere) which
acts independently of your nonphysical cord-activity range (OBE) body in the real world.


So we have three bodies and we can do the following makeshift definitions.

The physical body = The body we see much of the time in physical reality.

The cord-range body = Monroe called it the "second body" in FJ, but didn't mention this difference
in his later books. Buhlman uses other ways to put a name on this "second body". We could call it
the "short range RTZ OBE body" if we want to. I don't like it, but this second body may be named
"etheric", too.

The dream body = This name is used by Muldoon and a multitude of other names exists. Monroe called
this nonphysical body the "Third Body" (see ref to FJ above), but it's not sure that this is the same body as the
dream body, because Monroe was able to move around in the RTZ as well, in his Third body. So perhaps it's not a
dream body alone, as Monroe was able to move it a similar way to the "short range RTZ OBE body", so we could
call it the "combined long range RTZ OBE & dream body", if we want to. This third may be called "astral"
by some people, perhaps...


Those very home made definitions above, of the three bodies involved may give a possible explanation
to Lionhearts experience. ->

Before state Sigma or at entrance of state Sigma, Lionheart's "sleeping", or at least, very unaware cord-range
body felt the physical body's urge to go to the bathroom. This most likely made the cord-range body move
from the close proximity of the physical body towards the bathroom in physical reality. Yes, the cord-range
body moved on its own. Perhaps this movement could be attributed to Eeden's/RB's mind-split effect as well?

Meantime, in state Sigma, Lionheart partly lost lucidity (in my opinion), as he began exiting his dream. He also
began returning back to his physical body, first entering the cord-range body. When Lionheart entered state Phi,
his dream body merged with his cord-range body. This state of being can be viewed as doing a RTZ OBE, because
now Lionheart had left the dream world and entered the nonphysical body close to his physical body

Because Lionheart's cord-range body was within cord-range activation (about 8-15 feet), Muldoon states that the pull
from the physical body will take effect on his nonphysical body. During that short moment, when Lioneart is inside
his cord-range body, but still outside his physical body, Lionheart experiences a great improvement of the feeling
of "realness" to his experience. Lionheart is OBE.

Then, because Lionheart's cord-range body is within cord-range activity and because his physical body has a need
to wake up, he is pulled back into his physical body and wakes up. Lionheart thus experiences a short OBE, while
exiting from his LD and going back into awake physical reality.

I can't say I'm right in my analysis, but I want to point out that making your story more clear, structured and divided
into obvious sections can help others in responding to it.

--

Besides everything else, I must say that I'm amazed at your control of your LD. I have nothing even
close of that in any of my LDs. Seems like I'm just doing crap or losing lucidity.

[Xanth]

I understood his "re-scripting" perfectly fine... I think it's an awesome idea/concept.
So no, he doesn't need to "define" his terminology, his post defines it just fine. 

His entire post was understandable very well without the need to further explain anything.

As for your posts... I could say the same about them, 8th grade and all... but I won't, because I'm nice like that.  >.> 

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Id guess the subconcious has a part to play in this. You try to hold your breath until you die. Its not supposed to work as the subconcious takes over and resets your bodies requirements to normality.
Regarding the semantics etc of english, its a post not a book. If you have any questions then simply reply. Its really a no brainer. You're not writing as Hilary Mantel (nice lady, makes nice coffee), you're posting in connection with the topic title (hopefully) on a forum.
We're all in this together and an indifference I regard as a characteristic. No need to be juxtaposed...

[Lionheart]

 Wow Pauli, did that make you feel good? I'm still awaiting your new book on all of your helpful information that you supply from all the experience you have with all your successful OBE's.
The text I chose was to make my scenario shorter and not waste people's time reading a long post that says basically says nothing more than what people already know. I am not writing a book!
My post was about using the bathroom being a Dream Killer. Not getting into what Re-scripting is, even though there are posts here that already explain it. This isn't a post about the similarities or difference between OBEs/Phasing/Dreams/LDs or any other terms that you like to insistently argue here about. Believe it or not, we humans can get ideas across to each other in "simple" language. We don't always have to feel like we are writing a "thesis"

[Xanth]

Pauli, quite frankly... and I'm going to be super blunt here because I'm absolutely sick of dancing around this subject with you trying to be nice.

Stop posting like you know what you're talking about.  You have absolutely NO CLUE WHATSOEVER.  You can read every book in the universe on the subject, and you still won't have a clue until you actually do it.

Your opinion, at least to myself, is beyond MEANINGLESS.  Anyone can parrot information out of a book.  If you're really interested in learning how to project, then ask us what you're doing wrong and actually try to figure out it.  Get your head out of your books and start projecting.  Until then either learn... or leave... you're doing nothing but trolling on these forums, and last time I checked that was against the AUP.

[Stillwater]

I think I need to agree here Pauli...

Take a step back and look at what you are proposing; this is an internet forum. Your prescriptions for posting are more appropriate for a 200- page research summary published through a scientific journal.

There are terms common to our discussions here, and new members generally learn then quickly. People value economy of word here, because it means they don't need to sift through fluff to find what they are looking for. I agree many terms are of dispute, but when it becomes apparent there is a misunderstanding then defintions can be explored. For instance works like "Lucid dream" are more or less conventions here, and imply about 80% common material to people's minds; how redundmant might it be to read though everyone's own personal defintion of that term as a preface to their post?

And also consider your public. You are not dealing with a congress of scholars here; everyone approaches this art with the life skills they are presently equipped with, and their questions ought to be answered with the sincerity with which they were asked. People will communicate the best they know how- it is a mistake of pride to draw attention to whatever defficiencies they might have, rather than approach their concerns.