Difference between OBE and dreams

[ralphm]

"they can communicate" is the answer, which you even state. I think our brains and spirit are intertwined and only the spiritually retarded don't get spirit info. Maybe the communications are really subtle and less sensitive people ignore them, but that does not mean they don't exist.

[beavis]

How to know if its real?
they can communicate"

?

[ralphm]

What is real? What if it is a malicious spirit trying to mislead you? Don't you think that your higher self/guides/gaurdian angel-whatever you wish to call it could put info into your brain without you detecting it?  What you ask is interesting because there is probably no correct answer, only whatever system of trial and error you use during your time on earth to develop.
I think I have felt stuff from both my spirit self and bodily self while having an obe. And while obe you are relying on whatever mental processes you develop while awake-fears, concentration, decision making.

[Tombo]

"Most of us know what energy feels like, and that is definitely an OBE."

Do they? What do you mean with "energy"?

"How can we know if its only the firing of neurons in our brains with no input from astral OR if the info is in our brains but comes from astral OR if its our spirit experiencing something in astral and not in our brains at all? How to know if its real?"

Important question. Can you  define "real" ?

[kiauma]

Oh not with the define 'reality' demands - isn't that a different thread?  I thought this one was asking about OBE and dreams?

The fact is though that any psychic experience is an expression of your reality.  How you interpret it, whether as metaphore or something more 'objective' is immaterial to it's reality.  Perception is all.

[magickdan]

Me I could probably never tell the difference between a dream and an
OBE since my dreams are so vivid and real, and I feel the dreams. But I guess I never know cause I have never had an OBE but from what you guys describe an OBE my dreams seem fairly close.

Like if something happens to me in the dream it actually happens to my body. Say if someone stabs me in the dream wherever I was stabbed in the dream feals like I was stabbed. Like the matrix says the body makes it real. It can be great feeling[] and then again it feels horible[B)]. I got off topic kinda I guess.

[beavis]

Ralphm: What is real? What if it is a malicious spirit trying to mislead you? Don't you think that your higher self/guides/gaurdian angel-whatever you wish to call it could put info into your brain without you detecting it?

I think that higher self/guide etc is my unconscious mind, but I agree that my brain is not aware of every time something supernatural causes one of its neurons to fire.

tombodenmann: Most of us know what energy feels like, and that is definitely an OBE."
Do they? What do you mean with "energy"?

Energy is what you feel during "vibrations" and what is used to do telekinesis.

How can we know if its only the firing of neurons in our brains with no input from astral OR if the info is in our brains but comes from astral OR if its our spirit experiencing something in astral and not in our brains at all? How to know if its real?"
Important question. Can you define "real" ?

Real is anything that directly affects at least 1 other real thing. Circular logic if you cant prove anything is real to start with, but I think therefore I am. Interpretations of real things can be extremely distorted, like a brain sees. Many times brains think they see things that really dont exist. This physical place is very different than how it appears to a brain. When a brain sees something, the info came from something real, but the brain doesnt always know the real source. Spirits see less distorted than brains. When I see something I think is in astral, I was asking how to know if my brain halucinated it. Is it my brains interpretation or my spirit's?

[Tombo]

"Energy is what you feel during "vibrations" and what is used to do telekinesis"

O.k. but why do you think the vibrations are a sign that the experience is real? One can also believe that the vibrations are caused by the neurons (although I do not believe so). Telekinesis ..well o.k. that is a proof against hallucination but how is that useful to test "Reality" of experience when out of body?

"Real is anything that directly affects at least 1 other real thing."

Following that definition a hallucination is real since it affects something real (your body).
My suggestion: real is something that exists independent from your brain. Well I dont know if that definition is that smart either since it is kind of circular as well....Confusing.....

[beavis]

There are 2 parts that can be in any dream, what your spirit experiences and what your brain experiences. They can communicate.

Most of us know what energy feels like, and that is definitely an OBE.

But what if you dont feel energy? That doesnt mean its not an OBE. I've seen info I couldnt have physically known without feeling any energy and verified its correctness.

How can we know if its only the firing of neurons in our brains with no input from astral OR if the info is in our brains but comes from astral OR if its our spirit experiencing something in astral and not in our brains at all? How to know if its real?