Dream Reality, Dream Boundaries

[mactombs]

First let me say I'm fairly aware of my dreams in waking conciousness. I remember nearly all my dreams, and so I can't help but try to find some coherency between dreams, some meaning.

Here are a few consistencies about dreams I've found:

1) There are usually four or more dreams each night.

2) There are recurrent dreams, dreams that either occur exactly the same as before, or nearly the same differentiating only because of a choice you made in the dream.

3) There are recurrent dream locales, and when you are in these locales, they are very much alike between one dream and another. If you try writing a list of places you've been in dreams, you'll find redundancies, not only general but in the specific details of the locations.

4) If you become lucid in a dream, usually you are not totally aware at first (ie you say and do things you wouldn't do if you were more aware) and you lose awareness very easily.

5) Even at a level less than lucid, you can change the dream plot. For instance, you can make a dream character do something different, make something happen out of nowhere, find your clothes after forgetting to get dressed for dream school.

6) Dreams are never completely sensible. Random stuff that makes no sense happens no matter how previously solid the plot and events and atmosphere was.

Consistency is a first step (in my mind) toward forming meaning. If dreams mean something, they should be more than random feedback of data your chemical computer processed during the day (but I do believe this "feedback" occurs in dreams, it just does not seem to constitute dreams).

But if dreams do mean something, then why are they almost always so cryptic? Yes, there are dream dictionaries - but who comes up with these anyway? And how universal are dreams? Are themes and elements common enough to mean the same thing for every person. Most likely not.

Do dreams mean anything beyond subconcious musing? So far, I'd say probably not, at least not in any supernatural sense, and no more than grocery shopping means something.

Are dreams the same as projections? This is a commonly discussed topic, but in my experience they are merely related, and not too closely. Dreams seem to be subconcious meanderings. If the reality of something is defined by the accuity of the sensual depiction (or how "real" it looks, feels, etc.) then dreams are much less real than projections.

Transitioning from a dream to an OBE, I have found that every time when I become aware in a dream, the dreamscape has an artificial feel and appearance to it. I also find that once I realize I am dreaming and decide to fly, or move somewhere else quickly, the dreamscape has a very distinct boundary, almost as if the dream is contained within a diorama or a box. Sometimes it is even difficult to exit this boundary, but upon exiting it becomes clear that I have departed something relatively artificial.

Has anyone else experienced this dream boundary? It's also very distinct in a series of false awakenings, where you wake from one dream into progressively more "real" feeling spaces.

[smooth]

thanks for the great info

[smooth]

Well also. i bet dreams get confused with obes a lot more then we think. in a way its the same. You can do things that u cant in physical. Examples fly,see past ones, go through walls, see people that u wont to but  cant in physical form. There are many similarities.

[upstream]

Good post. I've really enjoyed it.

Transitioning from a dream to an OBE, I have found that every time when I become aware in a dream, the dreamscape has an artificial feel and appearance to it. I also find that once I realize I am dreaming and decide to fly, or move somewhere else quickly, the dreamscape has a very distinct boundary, almost as if the dream is contained within a diorama or a box. Sometimes it is even difficult to exit this boundary, but upon exiting it becomes clear that I have departed something relatively artificial.
Has anyone else experienced this dream boundary?

Yes, it has been already discussed. I'm very interested in this topic, please describe the boundaries in as much detail as possible.

[mactombs]

Yes, it has been already discussed. I'm very interested in this topic, please describe the boundaries in as much detail as possible.

Maybe I should pay better attention... I hate reinventing the wheel... but on the other hand, I guess it shows indepedent validation of the same effect.

It's very difficult to describe, but I'll try. The boundary isn't noticable unless there is some level of lucidity. Once there is lucidity, the dreamscape appears and feels more like a simulation. The boundary feels like the area in which the simulation is constructed - and not very unlike the part in The Truman Show where he finds the exit in the painted clouds.

The boundary feels like an unnatural geometric ceiling or wall in what before appeared to be a natural world. Once you exit it, things become much more real, without any sense of boundary, without any sense of internal generation creating what is percieved. In a way, it feels like breaking free.

I hope this is helpful.

[Telos]

I don't remember this being discussed. Can you point us to the thread, upstream?

Mactombs, I know what you mean. This is why I've come to see flying towards the sky as a way of "leaving the dream atmosphere." Other manifestions like doors, mirrors, and portals seem to have similar effects.

That was definitely one of the reasons why I liked the Truman Show - its similarity to leaving the confines of your restricted awareness in dreams. It's great to know someone else picked up on that!

[jason]

I've explored this subject several times during lucidity.I find that I need a higher level of lucidity than a "normal" LD,in order to be able to find the dreamscape boundaries.

I've found that Dreamscape boundaries exist above,and below.Below,when I dive into the dream-earth,I enter a realm that becomes very heavy,and I can't remain for long.

If I fly high enough into the dream-sky,I eventually pass through a barrier of light,and end up either in another dream,or an astral locale (not sure).

I also find that I need a high level of energy to do this.If I try to do this when my energy level is lower,the dreamsky becomes much to high,almost infinite looking to pass through.

On one occasion,I passed through at least 10-15 dreamscapes,fly up through the floor or earth of another dream,and up into the dream-sky,and through the barriers of light.I've also found that the reaLms become more "real" with each upward realm.They start to resemble astral realms more and more,while becoming less "dreamlike",and the barriers of light become brighter the higher you go.

[Telos]

If I fly high enough into the dream-sky,I eventually pass through a barrier of light,and end up either in another dream,or an astral locale (not sure).

I also find that I need a high level of energy to do this.If I try to do this when my energy level is lower,the dreamsky becomes much to high,almost infinite looking to pass through.

Yes! I have had the same feeling myself. I tended to feel kind of "drained."

But this was not the case in my Shoecrutch experience. There, I did not fly until I reached a threshold, but saw the boundaries of the dream by looking down back at it. In that way, I did not feel as if I was travelling a great distance, but was simply circumventing the boundary's edges. I kept the same energetic feeling of lucid control throughout.

On one occasion,I passed through at least 10-15 dreamscapes,fly up through the floor or earth of another dream,and up into the dream-sky,and through the barriers of light.I've also found that the reaLms become more "real" with each upward realm.They start to resemble astral realms more and more,while becoming less "dreamlike",and the barriers of light become brighter the higher you go.

That is interesting. Did you get tired moving through so many realities?

[jason]

That is interesting. Did you get tired moving through so many realities?

Sort of.Eventually I got to a point where I couldn't go any higher at all.I tried to pass through the ceiling of a building,but I couldn't.I talked to someone in the building,he seemed quite surprised when I told him that I come from far below.He pointed at the light barrier,which was a pond made of light, surrounded by trees and plants.He said something like "you mean,people live down there?"  

BTW-I read your shoecrutch experience.Franks response was quite enlightening.

[upstream]

Maybe I should pay better attention... I hate reinventing the wheel... but on the other hand, I guess it shows independent validation of the same effect.

Exactly! And I found your description very accurate.

When I've been doing my first flights from the balcony of our house I've discovered that by choosing directions I chose between dream pools too. Mapping dreams is my utmost interest.

I don't remember this being discussed. Can you point us to the thread, upstream?

Sure. I've searched for it but found only a not so big discussion. The title is "Pixels and 2-D images in the Astral Plane" @ http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14827.

My confusion may due to an another source (extremely relevant) I've found lately on a discussion board where a Russian group of dreamers, the Dreamhackers have introduced themselves for the West.

http://p197.ezboard.com/fsustainedreaction98489dreamingdiscussions.showMessage?topicID=170.topic
http://p197.ezboard.com/fsustainedreaction98489dreamingdiscussions.showMessage?topicID=125.topic

Watch out, this is really a psychotic board with lot of egomaniacs. But apparently they are not weekend dreamers like many people on these forums.

Below,when I dive into the dream-earth, I enter a realm that becomes very heavy,and I can't remain for long.

Wow Jason. I should try this. Thank you for sharing. Going through 10-15 dream in a row? It should have been a potent stabilizer of your projection. Was it indeed very stable after 3-5 changes?

[mactombs]

When I've been doing my first flights from the balcony of our house I've discovered that by choosing directions I chose between dream pools too. Mapping dreams is my utmost interest.

I guess I've never even thought of mapping dreams before. I wondered if it were possible that all dreams were networked.

I think mapping dreams isn't all that outlandish an idea, as I think about it. The difficulty comes in how intricately it seems connected to psychology ... yet, exploring the raw sensual consistencies might be a good way to start, and exclude any psychology. Another difficulty, of course, is remembering dreams and remembering them well, and having enough people able to do so to compare findings.

Dream control might prove far more fruitful than any trance / meditation / etc. technique, if you can find out how dreams work (or maybe, rather how you work in them).

[Quantitativefool]

Wow, this is really facinating, I am going to take note of this in my next LD, I'll post my results when that happens

-Stu

[jason]

Below,when I dive into the dream-earth, I enter a realm that becomes very heavy,and I can't remain for long.

Wow Jason. I should try this. Thank you for sharing. Going through 10-15 dream in a row? It should have been a potent stabilizer of your projection. Was it indeed very stable after 3-5 changes?

Now that I think about it,it probably was pretty stable at that point-I flew very fast through most of them though.And by the time I got to the highest level I could reach,it strongly resembled more of an astral projection than a dream.

I remember now that I asked the "person" (or whatever  ) at the highest level, if anyone lived above here.He became very serious and said "oh yes.There are many levels above this one.

Then he gave me a big orange crystal that turned blue the lower I went.It took me to an incredibly beautiful astral temple,w/a huge version of the crystal I held in my hand.