Experimentation

[experimental]

weev got the original thread back lol














Hi Guys....something went wrong with the forums when I was trying to reply to your post, Experimental..... I ended up posting about 5 times, then trying to delete them & for some reason the whole thread has disappeared ! I've retrieved the text (below) & hope you guys can post again !! sorry .....

I had a idea last nite that confused me somewhat ...

It was the fact that if you are trying to proove to yourself you have
left your body , through useing a number or a playing card, which was
previously hidden out of site to you from a freind or someone in the
physical . Then if i was in a Lucid dream , then that number or card
may appear wrong to the true physical counterpart ? , because while we
are lucid the expereince is more subjective...

If i m thinking right , then if i m haveing a subjective expereince ,
i have the power to shape shift the dimension i m percieving ( Lucid )
shapeing the enviroment useing my imagination , even if i m unaware of
that at times , so if i suddenly wake up with the dream in mind with
the number or card in my mind , then it should be the wrong number or
card , because the expereince was Lucid ? . Like for example if i
slightly thaught of the number as being " 57 " lets say , then the
number would appear as that number. ( as aposed to the true number )

But if the number matched up to the true physical number when coming
back awake as i remembered it or seen it , it would suggest that i was
percieving objectivly somewhat , which would explain what type of
expereinceing i was haveing , IE : either astral orientated or dream
related ?

I knows it sounds abit confuseing, its head doing lol , but very intersting

Experimental

: D

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bmw

Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 56
Location: USA
Posted: 11 Dec 2004 06:36 Post subject:

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hmmm... actually I like the idea. I sounds as if it would work.
There's only two potential obstacles I can think of. First, you're
subconscious might clairvoyantyly read the card and put it in your
dream (pretty unlikely, but possible). Second, if you are indeed out
of body, your subconscious might start affecting the real-time zone,
changing the card value you see. Either way, you subconscious might
get in the way of objectivity. On the flipside, however, I would say
that this problem isn't too major unless you're in the real-time zone
for a long time, so all in all you theory should work. Awesome idea!
I'll have to give it a shot.

Cheers,
bmw
_________________
Confucious say: Man who run behind car get exhaust.

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experimental

Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 13
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 11 Dec 2004 07:53 Post subject:

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Hi bmw

I guess after reading roberts first book nearly twice and
experimenting in different states, its projecting my own creative
aspect to experiment within my own ideas, which is great.

My next difficulty in the dream states is identifying or verifying
results against the physical reality" for example the number " or card
identifying , after becomeing lucid a few times it suddenly dawned on
me , that being lucid is subjective, so its possible i could change
the number without knowing through my imagination influencing the
enviroment around me without me being aware of it. If i can stregnthen
my imaginitive state to keep the enviroment " physically real as i can
" then i l know then that the card or number has got to be the same
number or card in the physuical i m percieving .

But if that happens , the questions then raised , what dimension am i
in lol , the real time zone ? or a created Lucid enviroment ? the real
time zone is a reflection of the physical world , so objects are a
reflection of real physical objects, in that case i m in the real time
zone and matching results should proove correct .

If its a dream enviroment , maybe that is possible , that your sub-con
can become clairvoyant and give you the real results to the physical
object your locking on to for all your in a dream , maybe in the
actual dream , it can create a perfect copy of the physical enviroment
your percieving as a temporory enviroment .

I l stop their because it can get abit to deep i think lol

Thanks for your response anyways, i m gonna keep experimenting when i can

experimental ; )

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catmeow

Joined: 11 Apr 2004
Posts: 87
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Yesterday at 04:26 Post subject:

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Hello experimental

My experience of LD'ing is that it does occasionally yield information
which is a refelection of the physical, although this is the exception
rather than the rule. And I believe this is due to (very) heightened
ESP ability during dreams.

But I do have a problem with reading during LD. I don't mean I can't
read, I can read very easily, it's just that every time I look back at
the thing I just read, I see different words!

So if I was reading a number, every time I looked, the number would
change! I haven't tried this with playing cards, perhaps these might
be more stable. I suspect this "property" of LD'ing (ie everytime you
read something the words change) can be a useful method of
distinguishing LD from OBE.

I've posted about this before and would be really interested to hear
other people's experience of reading in LD.

I must put a playing card out tonight on top of the wardrobe!

catmeow
_________________
Truth is beauty, but beauty isn't always Truth

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Magamba

Joined: 28 Mar 2004
Posts: 12
Location: USA
Posted: Today at 10:49 Post subject:

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I have been experimenting with this for a while now. Each time I find
myself in the so called RTZ to look at the card there are reality
fluctuations and I am never sure if it is a lucid dream or OBE.
Regardless, I am able to guess correctly. My instincts tell me that
there is dimensional overlap and possibly that I am not actually
reading the card but accessing the information psychically. For
instance, there were other cards and objects there that were not
really there. (Possibly fingerprints from another time?) I did not
know which card to look at and then I noticed there was a box. Inside
this box was only one card so I figured that this must be it. It was
as if I just knew how to sift through the other stuff. Before reading
the card, you must consciously blank your mind from any expectations
and glace at it quickly or it will start to change according to what
you expect to see. Also, there can be metaphors that your unconscious
sets up. Another time there was no card at all but there was a note
that said, " Happy birthday Giza". BTW, Giza is the name of my dog. I
did not understand this at first but upon checking the card, it made
sense that it was a 5 and my dog is 5 years old. My next experiment is
to materialize the card in a lucid dream from wherever I am rather
than trying to go to the card location. If this works that would mean
that I am accessing the info from some sort of universal
conscienceness.
_________________
Gaye - Chicago

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experimental

Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 13
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Today at 19:34 Post subject:

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yeah i like that idea, very intersting , make the object materialize
instead of searching for it at the location . That would be great if
you could make that happen , but you d still have to verify the
results with the physical counterpart to see wether or not it was the
true perception you were locking on to .

And that point about " other things or objects part of a different
time lingering in the imediate atmosphire of the dimension your
percieving is a nice possibility to , maybe thats a logical idea,
because if everything is reflected into the real time zones from the
physical, then even objects that have died out in physical time may
still have left their essence in that identical space .

I m still struggling to make a lucid expereince consistant delibritly
, but when i do become aware ( generly when i start levatateing in a
dream ) , i m experimenting still with checking out the level of
reality to the enviroment i m percieving

Experimental

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tombodenmann

Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Posts: 194
Location: Switzerland
Posted: Today at 21:00 Post subject:

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@Magamba "For instance, there were other cards and objects there that
were not really there. (Possibly fingerprints from another time?) I
did not know which card to look at and then I noticed there was a box.
Inside this box was only one card so I figured that this must be it.
It was as if I just knew how to sift through the other stuff"

Very Interesting !So you guessed the right card then? Do you usually
get it right or not?

@catmeow

I experience the same, words and numbers always mutate inside my lucid
dreams (which is very wired, since the mind knows they shouldn't, if
it is a subjectiv reality why does the mind not create it like it
thinks it should be?)
I really wonder if Numbers and Writings are supposed to be stable
inside OBE's has anybody verified this?
I once did a experiment with an other Projector from Brazil, I tried
to guess the name of his mother. I decided to look at a wall inside
the dream while aiming for the name I first saw the name "Berta" I
think which latter turned out to be the name of his oldest sister
which was about 45 years old. Then the word changed into Belta, Beate,
Belte etc

Anyways one other lucid dreamer told me that he learned to read
correctly inside dreams and sometimes reads books there!

confusing stuff!
Cheers Tom


Clandestino :
great point, experimental.... does a failed card experiment simply
mean you were experiencing a lucid dream ?!!

I'd like to throw in one more point.....does the fact that you
correctly identified a card, prove that you actually physically
left your body ?! hmmmm.....

kind regards, Confused

_________________
"Love is so short, forgetting is so long"
-Pablo Neruda

[experimental]

hmmm good point clandestino



Someone wrote on the forrum earlier through the week , that it may be possible your sub-con can clairvoyantly re create the true number or card without you leaveing the body to  get the required results lol


Like for example  while lucid , you could be perceiving  everything spot on in place in the physical , to make you think your in the real time zone, but in reality your in a dream copy of it , and even the number or card  matches up to the true  result .  i  dont know wether thats possible or not , but it adds good question to the debate


experimental

; D

[Magamba]

Very Interesting !So you guessed the right card then? Do you usually
get it right or not?

The first time I tried this experiment, I guessed the number and suit correctly and the second time I got the number correct but the suit wrong. I believe this could be due to the fact that the suit is more difficult to decifer for some reason. Also, the second time I stared at the queen for too long before reading the suit because she started to come alive and move her head and this distracted my concentration. The reason that I have only done this twice is because I am not very proficient at lucid dreaming / OBEing regularly. Sometimes the card sits for months before I get to it. Both times, I have not been sure if this is a lucid dream or OBE since I do not have conscience exits.

great point, experimental.... does a failed card experiment simply
mean you were experiencing a lucid dream ?!!

I'd like to throw in one more point.....does the fact that you
correctly identified a card, prove that you actually physically
left your body ?! hmmmm.....

A failed card experiment could mean that you just stared at the card too long and it started to morph according to your expectations.

I am still trying to figure out if we perceive things because we are actually there or if it is a universal consciousness. Maybe there is overlap with dream / astral projection dimensions.

One other point - maybe dreaming is meant to be a training ground for learning how to control our thoughts since in the astral world thoughts instantly manifest things. Thus, we can learn to do this in our physical life to manifest  things here.[/quote]

[experimental]

yeah the imagination shape shifting the card without you doing it , so you d have to be quick with a clear  mind to percieve the card for what it actually was ,  or learn how to get more awareness in the dream time  and learn how to still the imagination when you get the conscuios intervension occuring maybe .....


experimental


; D