Hi okay i know this is going to sound ridiculous to everyone but please listen and help me if you can.
I know very little about astral projection and dream walking and things of this nature. What i do know, is that i'm 18, i have a boyfriend that I've been with for 5 years and am very deeply in love with and have a very strong connection with. We have a very hard time seeing each other due to severe personal issues, and when we're not close it feels like I'm physically missing a strong part of my soul. Thus, i've turned to this, as my last resort. Teach me the ways of the force please? :D I have many questions.
How do I enter my boyfriends dreams? Is this even possible? Can we communicate this way? Can doing i harm him in anyway by doing this? Will we remember any of it after we've woken up? Does he have to be conscience of me doing this before i can do it? How does it work, like what are the semantics involved? Please, just because i'm a lovesick teen don't believe by any means that i am an unintelligent one; I am a very open minded gold-maker personality type and i am very capable.
two things.
i think that it is potentially possible to connect to him in this way. this is assuming that there is a collective that connects all consciousness.
however, the issue becomes the extreme subjective nature of these experiences. when you leave your body or enter a dream you have to "think" of him to get to him. if you try to travel instantly, you have to think of him. if you fly to him or some other means of 'physical' travel, you'll have to initiate the travel by telling yourself what you're doing, ie, going to see your boyfriend. no matter how you slice it, you have to somehow bring up a thought, image, feelings, etc. in order to reach him. everything you know and feel about him isn't really him. it's the mental image or metaphor associated with specific emotional memories that you have of him, not him. so as soon as you try to get to him you will most likely create an astral version of the collective memories and feelings you have for him, not him. i don't know what kind of control it would take to actually get to him. i don't even know if it's possible to get to him at all as a human. as long as you have your physical body i would imagine that you have the awareness associated with it and that means human perception. perhaps you have to be beyond modern human form to achieve something like that.
all of that isn't to say that your astral creation can't be equally satisfying though. honestly, you probably would have never even considered that it wasn't really him, because your creation would match the mental model you have for him.
So basically there is no way to do this then? To actually meet with HIS person HIS soul HIS being, not just some generic imitation version that my mind attempts to create? Even just slightly, for example just to feel his presence?
what's the real difference anyway.
if you believe your creation is him, then your mind will make you feel like it's reall yhim.
Quote from: trishabella on September 26, 2010, 23:43:50
So basically there is no way to do this then? To actually meet with HIS person HIS soul HIS being, not just some generic imitation version that my mind attempts to create? Even just slightly, for example just to feel his presence?
As far as I'm concerned, you can't directly enter someone else's personal dream space.
You can "talk" to them through telepathy though... in which case, the other person will manifest your voice in whatever way they deem fit, one case could be a materialization of your form there.
Beyond that, you'd have to go beyond the personal consciousness areas and into the collective consciousness areas to "meet up".
Focus 1 oC or Focus 3 oC, which you can read up about here: http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html
Welcome to the Astral Pulse, and enjoy. :)
I am pulled into people's personal dream space all the time. I don't understand why you think it's impossible..?
Quote from: Naykid on September 27, 2010, 12:31:50
I am pulled into people's personal dream space all the time. I don't understand why you think it's impossible..?
Because I think it's the same kind of delio as trying to 'enter' someone else's body.
You don't have the proper "key" to get in. Personal consciousness is just that... personal.
Be it far from me to tell you that what you're experiencing isn't real though. So I'll just stick to that assessment and bow out. ;)
Quote from: Xanth on September 27, 2010, 13:13:10
Because I think it's the same kind of delio as trying to 'enter' someone else's body.
You don't have the proper "key" to get in. Personal consciousness is just that... personal.
Be it far from me to tell you that what you're experiencing isn't real though. So I'll just stick to that assessment and bow out. ;)
Believe me when I say, I do not need you to validate my experiences, but I was hoping for a bit more explanation on to why you believe what you believe. By your comment I will go on the assessment that you have no clue on what the dealio is. :wink:
Quote from: Naykid on September 27, 2010, 14:51:10
Believe me when I say, I do not need you to validate my experiences,
Hence my reluctance to continue. :)
Quotebut I was hoping for a bit more explanation on to why you believe what you believe. By your comment I will go on the assessment that you have no clue on what the dealio is. :wink:
I love how you try to bait people. ;)
You go ahead and keep that assessment all you want. ;)
In any case, you'll need to re-read the first two lines of my previous post.
Your answer is right there.
Baiting? I'm asking you to clarify your comments. :| You contradict yourself every other day. I'm just trying to get a solid statement from you that doesn't consist of, I believe it to be because I read it in a book or Frank said it's so.
I did read your two lines. Keys? :? What do you think a soul retrieval is? Do you think that might come under the realm of being pulled into someones reality? In order to retrieve you have to be in their.. dream, their reality.
Have you ever had a experience that didn't revolve around yourself? I have had many experiences that were not about me.. I was there for someone else. I might be lucky to learn something from it, but it wasn't all about me. There also comes a feeling, a sense that I'm in someone's reality and not my own.
I just wish you would stop speaking in absolutes. And that winking. I can't help but feel it's a smart arse wink instead of a kind wink. But I guess that's my issue not yours. :wink:
:lol:
i don't understand the difference between 'telepathy' and being in someone else's dreamspace.
telepathy is mental (usually nvc) communication with another person right? in order to make a telepathic connection, you would need access to another person's personal dream space or whatever we're calling it.
i would like to know how you validate this experience for yourself Nay. (i'm really being serious too, not trying to be contradictory or anything, i legitimately want to know)
i mean, if what you have is subjective experience how can you prove it to yourself (assuming you rely on objective measurement for your validation)?
this is why i don't believe in objectivity. what can you ever have besides your subjective perception of the experience. even if you have systematic, empirical test results, you can't possibly separate that from your perceptual filters.
Quote from: personalrealityi don't understand the difference between 'telepathy' and being in someone else's dreamspace.
I'm not clear on that either. I have posted a shared dream in the validation thread (there is one on this board) which I shared with my mother. I don't know if it occurred in a concensus area open to every one (Xanth) or whether it was shared just by myself and my mother. In truth there is no way of telling.
But I do think that the rather arbitrary and simplistic Foc levels paradigm doesn't work and doesn't explain all of the observed facts. I'm not a big fan of it.
I used to be on this board when Frank was contributing and I found him to be, probably, the most arrogant member of the board in history. As a mod he was also rather rude. Most people, stunned by his forthrightness, simply rolled over and daren't argue with him. Well we have many teachers to choose from, Monroe, Bruce, Buhlman, Fox, Muldoon etc.... They all say different things.... Be careful who you worship!
Quote from: Naykid on September 27, 2010, 16:33:46
Baiting? I'm asking you to clarify your comments. :| You contradict yourself every other day. I'm just trying to get a solid statement from you that doesn't consist of, I believe it to be because I read it in a book or Frank said it's so.
Yes, baiting. You're hoping to anger me by your "you have no clue" statement. Sorry, not going to work. :)
The only time I contradict myself is when I learn something new and take it in as part of my belief system... then it's not longer a contradiction.
Anyways, getting back to the point, I gave you a "solid statement" already.
Who cares how I came about my beliefs... I don't ask you how you came to yours.
QuoteI did read your two lines. Keys? :? What do you think a soul retrieval is? Do you think that might come under the realm of being pulled into someones reality? In order to retrieve you have to be in their.. dream, their reality.
You're not entering their dream... they can't dream, they're dead.
You're entering their Focus 3 oC belief system reality... a collective consciousness area.
QuoteHave you ever had a experience that didn't revolve around yourself? I have had many experiences that were not about me.. I was there for someone else. I might be lucky to learn something from it, but it wasn't all about me. There also comes a feeling, a sense that I'm in someone's reality and not my own.
I honestly do not remember.
Although, I do know that what we "sense" and "feel" can be quite misleading.
QuoteI just wish you would stop speaking in absolutes.
I can
only speak in "absolutes" when I'm talking about MY beliefs. How else am I to do it?
As I said, I'm not questioning YOUR beliefs, I'm simply trying to fit your experiences into my mold. I'm not sure why you get all bend out of shape over it. :/
Perhaps I should put that 'disclaimer' back in my signature?
"Everything I say on this forum or ANYWHERE, for that matter, is my own opinion and/or belief."
Constantly expressing opinions as facts, is irritating. I think it rubs people up the wrong way. It certainly gets on my nerves! We had a spammer called Sharpe who was really irritating and got himself banned in the end (then he quickly popped back on the grid as Sharpe2, Sharpe3 etc!). The alternative is to constantly preface with "imo" or "personally" or "I believe". This can be equally annoying. But it has to be done at least occasionally, so that the reader has some slight inkling that the poster isn't a complete wingnut!
Quote from: catmeow on September 27, 2010, 17:53:37
I'm not clear on that either. I have posted a shared dream in the validation thread (there is one on this board) which I shared with my mother. I don't know if it occurred in a concensus area open to every one (Xanth) or whether it was shared just by myself and my mother. In truth there is no way of telling.
That's just it, I believe it did occur in a collective consciousness area based upon my "belief" in how the wider reality is structured and the properties of each "area".
QuoteBut I do think that the rather arbitrary and simplistic Foc levels paradigm doesn't work and doesn't explain all of the observed facts. I'm not a big fan of it.
I am a big fan of it... as you can see. LoL :) Robert Monroes AND Franks models.
I am a fan of it
because I've been able to explain all my experiences and experiences of others using it.
QuoteI used to be on this board when Frank was contributing and I found him to be, probably, the most arrogant member of the board in history. As a mod he was also rather rude.
You're making the mistake that most people make when confronting someone with a very strong belief that what they believe is right.
It's not arrogance, it's confidence. Why does that anger you?
I read every post that Frank ever made, other than his remarks on topics well outside "Astral Projection", he was never rude... that doesn't make him a bad person. It makes him human, I don't understand how you're trying to attack that as a character flaw?
QuoteMost people, stunned by his forthrightness, simply rolled over and daren't argue with him.
You'd rather he sugar coated things for people? I loved the fact that he was straightforward and always "to-the-point".
Frank was... well, quite FRANK with every post he made.
QuoteWell we have many teachers to choose from, Monroe, Bruce, Buhlman, Fox, Muldoon etc.... They all say different things.... Be careful who you worship!
What's with you people and this 'worship' stuff?
If you want to use the word "worship" that's cool, let's just make sure it's a complete list then: I also Worship Robert Monroe, William Buhlman, John Magnus, Edain McCoy, even Robert Bruce is on that list, although you might not believe me. Hey! You can even add Stookie, Personalreality and several other Astral Pulse members to it too!
I think you get my drift though.
Quote from: Xanth"You're making the mistake that most people make when confronting someone with a very strong belief that what they believe is right.
It's not arrogance, it's confidence. Why does that anger you?
Because it was actually arrogance. No mistake.
Quote from: catmeow on September 27, 2010, 18:19:54
Constantly expressing opinions as facts, is irritating. I think it rubs people up the wrong way. It certainly gets on my nerves! We had a spammer called Sharpe who was really irritating and got himself banned in the end (then he quickly popped back on the grid as Sharpe2, Sharpe3 etc!). The alternative is to constantly preface with "imo" or "personally" or "I believe". This can be equally annoying. But it has to be done at least occasionally, so that the reader has some slight inkling that the poster isn't a complete wingnut!
I agree 100%... I generally TRY to do just what you say. It does get tedious and sometimes I do forget to do it and sometimes I just don't feel the need to.
Sometimes, I'm still in "posting on MY website" mode, where I really don't need to express my beliefs as a possibility.
In any case, I did preface my first post here on page 4 with "I think...". :)
Quote from: catmeow on September 27, 2010, 18:23:13
Because it was actually arrogance. No mistake.
Then that's what you "choose" to see. Perception is a huge thing when dealing with other people.
I read every word he's ever written... even from his patriotism in defending his political and national stances, I witnessed only confidence in his posts. :)
Quote from: Xanth on September 27, 2010, 18:29:52
Then that's what you "choose" to see. Perception is a huge thing when dealing with other people.
I read every word he's ever written... even from his patriotism in defending his political and national stances, I witnessed only confidence in his posts. :)
I'd like to put it to the vote! But otherwise I shalln't argue about it. :-)
Quote from: catmeow on September 27, 2010, 17:53:37
But I do think that the rather arbitrary and simplistic Foc levels paradigm doesn't work and doesn't explain all of the observed facts. I'm not a big fan of it.
I used to be on this board when Frank was contributing and I found him to be, probably, the most arrogant member of the board in history. As a mod he was also rather rude. Most people, stunned by his forthrightness, simply rolled over and daren't argue with him. Well we have many teachers to choose from, Monroe, Bruce, Buhlman, Fox, Muldoon etc.... They all say different things.... Be careful who you worship!
I love you.
also, nothing is fact, especially when dealing with this kind of abstract stuff.
that in mind, everything any of us say on this forum can be assumed to be opinion (even if it's someone else's).
Quotei would like to know how you validate this experience for yourself Nay. (i'm really being serious too, not trying to be contradictory or anything, i legitimately want to know)
i mean, if what you have is subjective experience how can you prove it to yourself (assuming you rely on objective measurement for your validation)?
Well, I've had the same dream as my mother, husband and just learned a few months ago, my son. We validated by me starting to tell the dream and then them freaking out that I experienced the exact same dream. Different dreams for each person mind you. I have this annoying habit of telling my dreams to everyone in the family. Breakfast is a good time to share the night's dreams. :-)
I've said several times, I have a learning disability so it makes it very hard to get into the logistics, I learn by doing. I had a hard time in school when it came to trying to learn something out of a book, but if you let me have hands on with it, I'd sometimes even surpass the book smart people. *shrugs*
When I have an experience I do mull it over in my mind, but when I say that I mean I walk thru it again... I don't question it. I don't really care if it's real or not. I just feel like I helped someone. This morning I had at least six different dreams... I wish I had the time to write them all down, but when I wake up, my feet hit the floor running. There are too many ppl here that depend on me taking care of things. My dreams take a back sit.. unfortunately. Hell, I take a back seat to everyone else needs. I'm not complaining, I love being a Mommy and taking care of my family. My oldest is about to leave the nest and go into the Military, perhaps that will give me a little more time to have validations for others. lol
Anyways, I'll never be able to argue this point to everyone's satisfaction, because I don't think like y'all do, but in my mind, that doesn't make my experiences any less than the next person.
Hey Nay, don't ever run yourself down. You're doing just fine.
Quote from: Naykid
I am pulled into people's personal dream space all the time. I don't understand why you think it's impossible..?
It is possible. I've done it.
Quote from: Xanth on September 27, 2010, 18:06:05
Yes, baiting. You're hoping to anger me by your "you have no clue" statement. Sorry, not going to work. :)
The only time I contradict myself is when I learn something new and take it in as part of my belief system... then it's not longer a contradiction.
Anyways, getting back to the point, I gave you a "solid statement" already.
Who cares how I came about my beliefs... I don't ask you how you came to yours.
You're not entering their dream... they can't dream, they're dead.
You're entering their Focus 3 oC belief system reality... a collective consciousness area.
I honestly do not remember.
Although, I do know that what we "sense" and "feel" can be quite misleading.
I can only speak in "absolutes" when I'm talking about MY beliefs. How else am I to do it?
As I said, I'm not questioning YOUR beliefs, I'm simply trying to fit your experiences into my mold. I'm not sure why you get all bend out of shape over it. :/
Perhaps I should put that 'disclaimer' back in my signature?
"Everything I say on this forum or ANYWHERE, for that matter, is my own opinion and/or belief."
I'm not baiting, it's all in your head, but by the length of your post it seems to me it has rubbed you the wrong way.
You gave me an answer that answered nothing.. but it doesn't matter, I really don't feel like fighting with you tonight. And it does seem like you are questioning not only my beliefs but of other people that do not see exactly the way you do.
Maybe dead ppl do dream, I don't know, but I did say "reality" after dream.
I suppose feelings can be misleading, but sometimes that is all I have to go on. Sometimes a whole experience is done without words and just feelings. For instance it would take someone a hell of a lot longer to tell me something with words than just giving me the feeling that they were a football player when they were young and..yadda, yadda, yadda. See?
*sigh* I'm not getting bent out of shape, please stop projecting. I'm also sorry, but I don't buy this. You are trying to fit everyone else into what you think is the right mold... Frank's mold. It is fine that what he wrote touched you or spoke to you, whatever. But Catmeow is right. Frank was an arrogant butt and I had no problem telling him this. Believe it or not we were pretty good friends until he decided to have a major mental break down and said some awful mean stuff that wasn't called for. I stop taking people's abuse long ago and he was no exception. That is what turned me off of his model to begin with. That and the fact that it was like trying to read friggin stereo instructions to me. :lol: He would get so upset if someone thought different and he used his mod status to silence others. It was wrong. You remind me of him. Being a moderator doesn't mean you have to be anal about every little thing. I do realize there are a very large amount of kids on here, but damn.
Instead of changing your sig line, why don't you just stop telling people that don't think exactly like you, it is all in their heads and then directing them to a Frank link.
Quote from: catmeow on September 27, 2010, 20:44:28
Hey Nay, don't ever run yourself down. You're doing just fine.
It is possible. I've done it.
Thank you CM, I really do appreciate that. :-)
No worries Nay.
Quote from: NayHe would get so upset if someone thought different and he used his mod status to silence others.
Bang on the money. That's how I see it too I'm afraid.
All I can say is that the only thing you're seeing is exactly what you want to see.
Look beyond that and I'm sure you'll begin to see the trees for the forest.
i feel similar Nay. When it comes down to it, the only thing I can really know is my experience (whether or not that fits into the mold of what is real or not is irrelevant to me) and the feelings I get from those experiences. I am curious about the nature of the experience, but that doesn't make me question it's validity.
Quote from: personalreality on September 27, 2010, 23:14:52
i feel similar Nay. When it comes down to it, the only thing I can really know is my experience (whether or not that fits into the mold of what is real or not is irrelevant to me) and the
feelings I get from those experiences. I am curious about the nature of the experience, but that doesn't make me question it's validity.
I agree completely that the only thing that really matters is your own experience. I certainly DO NOT question that... and I'd even be foolish to do so.
Your experience is your experience... how you interpret it is also your own. Nobody can change that.
I'm not trying to fit your experience into my mold for YOUR benefit... I'm doing it entirely for MY own benefit.
I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs with my conclusion... I'm attempting to reinforce my own.
Also, me doing this doesn't question the validity of it, in even the slightest. As I said, it still remains YOUR own experience.
What you learned from it is still 100% valid and real.
EDIT: I wanted to add something to this post of mine as well...
I speak my mind about my own beliefs in this manner not just to the benefit of myself. There are others out there who have the same or similar beliefs to mine and I do it for them too. So that they can read someone's experiences and then read my alternative explanation and see what fits their model better... to see if it reinforces their beliefs too.
Quote from: Xanth on September 27, 2010, 23:08:26
All I can say is that the only thing you're seeing is exactly what you want to see.
Look beyond that and I'm sure you'll begin to see the trees for the forest.
Oh it's not a matter of seeing what I want to see. I'm much more objective than that, please don't suggest you know my mental processes better than I do. I was there when Frank deleted people's posts if he disagreed with them. You didn't see that. I was involved in the discussions where people suggested they were literally afraid of saying what they felt because old grumpy Frank might delete their posts or even delete their ID. He was a bully and misused his mod status. And I speak from experience. What are your qualifications?
Quote from: Xanth on September 27, 2010, 23:08:26
All I can say is that the only thing you're seeing is exactly what you want to see.
Look beyond that and I'm sure you'll begin to see the trees for the forest.
:lol: You did it again. Did you see that?
Lordy Ryan, get a grip on yourself. Let's just go our separate ways and realize that we are living in different forests. :-D
Quote from: catmeow on September 28, 2010, 06:49:56
Oh it's not a matter of seeing what I want to see. I'm much more objective than that, please don't suggest you know my mental processes better than I do. I was there when Frank deleted people's posts if he disagreed with them. You didn't see that. I was involved in the discussions where people suggested they were literally afraid of saying what they felt because old grumpy Frank might delete their posts or even delete their ID. He was a bully and misused his mod status. And I speak from experience. What are your qualifications?
Agreed. I was a moderator, so I was seeing it from the inside. I don't want to turn this into a bashing Frank thing either, but Xanth you need to stop acting like you knew what really went on just because you read some articles written by Frank. There were two sides to Frank, period.
Ok, onward and upward. :-)
I agree with Nay. I really don't want to speak ill of someone when they are not here to defend themselves. So I will bow out of the Frank bashing now.
Quote from: Naykid on September 28, 2010, 07:58:57
Agreed. I was a moderator, so I was seeing it from the inside. I don't want to turn this into a bashing Frank thing either, but Xanth you need to stop acting like you knew what really went on just because you read some articles written by Frank. There were two sides to Frank, period.
Ok, onward and upward. :-)
All I can say is that I *have* read every word that he's ever written that is still available on the Astral Pulse.
And I can only base a judgment around that. And what I've read is that you're being a little too judgmental about him.
I really am sorry, but I simply
can not take just your word for it, I need more proof than "because I said so" in this.
The proof I've read is quite contrary to what your 'remembered' experience is... I hope you understand. :)
Even if he wasn't a 'perfect' person... who is really?
What's the saying? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
I like what the guy had to say about Astral Projection. He's helped me a lot... he's helped TONNES of people a lot. 'Nuff said.
Although I do HIGHLY suggest you try to move past your... anger? ... towards him. Regardless of his actions, as I said, he's helped a lot of people to Project. Forgiveness, perhaps?
In reading this debate I realised something about myself.
I sometimes felt an undefined emotion that I didnt like when reading some of Xanth's posts where he stated certain opinions as fact. When experienceing this, my instinct was trying to blame the unpleasant emotion on Xanth as if he had done something wrong, but at the same time my intelect was saying he's decent guy who tries to help people and is just expressing his opinion.
I've realised that my problem was in the level of confidence he had in his opinions. If they dissagreed with what I thought, I (without realising it) felt like he was unequivacally telling me my beliefs were wrong; something that would get most peoples backs up. He was, of course, not saying any such thing; he was just confidently expressing his opinion.
I now realise that it might often be the case that when I have a problem with a particularly confident person, the problem is with me and not them.
(Sorry for taklling about you in the third person Xanth. It was a toss up between third person which is rude or adressing you directly which might have seemed confrontational until you realised I wasnt actually having a go at you.)
What is wrong with you? Are you telling me now that I don't remember my relationship with Frank? That I've mistaken what happened? Are you telling me that I don't even know my OWN reality in the PHYSICAL? I can't believe what I'm reading. Unless you are actually Frank, then you have no idea of the hours we spent chatting back and forth and what transpired during those times. And if you are Frank, then Frank, you need to slap yourself for being a buttwipe and liar.
I can't believe the arrogance that you are showing right now.... I can't believe you are actually trying to MOLD my past relationship with someone who've never even met. Unbelievable. I'm almost a lost for words. Almost. Please show me where I said people are perfect? And when did I say he hasn't helped anyone? And I'm not asking you to take anything, I'm telling you how it was. The fact that your hero wasn't exactly what you thought is not my problem, you telling me I don't even know my own life is insulting and ticking me off. I got over my anger with Frank years ago. I was more hurt than angry, but I really shouldn't have to sit here and explain my private feelings to you, but for some reason you have a God complex going on and need to wave your ego in my face.
I HIGHLY suggest that YOU take a look at yourself and step back before you make a bigger fool of yourself than you are right now. So, you gonna pull a Frank and delete my words, lock the thread, what?
If you aren't Frank you're doing a damn well job in acting like his less than kind side.
Unfrigginbelievable.
Quote from: blis on September 28, 2010, 09:55:49
In reading this debate I realised something about myself.
I sometimes felt an undefined emotion that I didnt like when reading some of Xanth's posts where he stated certain opinions as fact. When experienceing this, my instinct was trying to blame the unpleasant emotion on Xanth as if he had done something wrong, but at the same time my intelect was saying he's decent guy who tries to help people and is just expressing his opinion.
I've realised that my problem was in the level of confidence he had in his opinions. If they dissagreed with what I thought, I (without realising it) felt like he was unequivacally telling me my beliefs were wrong; something that would get most peoples backs up. He was, of course, not saying any such thing; he was just confidently expressing his opinion.
I now realise that it might often be the case that when I have a problem with a particularly confident person, the problem is with me and not them.
(Sorry for taklling about you in the third person Xanth. It was a toss up between third person which is rude or adressing you directly which might have seemed confrontational until you realised I wasnt actually having a go at you.)
This is a different scenario. Ryan is telling me I don't know the facts of my own past. Give me a break.
*facepalms at Nay*
You might want to re-read my post, Nay.
I said nothing of the kind.
And thank you Blis for the kind words.
You are spot on.
Quote from: Naykid on September 28, 2010, 10:07:50
This is a different scenario. Ryan is telling me I don't know the facts of my own past. Give me a break.
I'm not having a go at you. Sorry if it came across that way. I honestly did just realise that about myself.
*facepalms* Really? That's all you got? Explain your arrogance and knowledge of my past. :x
Sorry Nay, but I'm done here.
You're just plainly looking for a fight now.
Bye.
Quote from: Xanth on September 28, 2010, 10:09:55
*facepalms at Nay*
You might want to re-read my post, Nay.
I said nothing of the kind.
And thank you Blis for the kind words.
You are spot on.
I know I have a learning disability but I'm not retarded, thanks. If you weren't telling me that I didn't know my past with Frank, then please, enlighten me.
Quote from: Xanth on September 28, 2010, 10:14:31
Sorry Nay, but I'm done here.
You're just plainly looking for a fight now.
Bye.
:roll: OMG.. you are something else, you know that? You are done, because you can't explain yourself without looking like a fool.
Quote from: Xanthll I can say is that I *have* read every word that he's ever written that is still available on the Astral Pulse.
And I can only base a judgment around that.
Incorrect. You haven't read every word, far from it. You are not privvy to the numerous PMs. THAT is the crucial point. Others on this board are informing you. But you have a problem with the information. It doesn't compute!
Quote from: XanthI really am sorry, but I simply can not take just your word for it, I need more proof than "because I said so" in this.
We are not offering proof. We are offering information, which because it differs from your world view must somehow be mis-remembered.
Quote from: XanthThe proof I've read is quite contrary to what your 'remembered' experience is... I hope you understand.
Nope, I don't understand. Italicising 'remembered' is really quite offensive. This really is the icing on the cake. I don't think this was directed at me, but I found it offensive on behalf of Nay. If it was directed at me, then you are simply wrong. I have a good memory.
Quote from: XanthAlthough I do HIGHLY suggest you try to move past your... anger? ... towards him.
Personally I can say hand on heart I have no anger whatsoever directed towards Frank. But curiously I hold the same opinion of him as Nay.
Quote from: XanthI agree completely that the only thing that really matters is your own experience. I certainly DO NOT question that... and I'd even be foolish to do so.
Well that is exactly what you are doing, questioning others' experience and then trying to suggest that their own memories are wrong. Are you therefore not foolish? I think you are so totally busted by your own remark here.
I'm sorry ladies...
Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that, please?
And Noy... Jerry can go find his own forums. ;)
Quote from: Xanth on September 27, 2010, 18:20:03
You're making the mistake that most people make when confronting someone with a very strong belief that what they believe is right.
It's not arrogance, it's confidence. Why does that anger you?
I loved the fact that he was straightforward and always "to-the-point".
Huh, that sounds familiar... oh yeah - that's the exact same thing I was saying about Selea before. I miss her comments.
I recently was going through Frank's old posts and here's something I noticed that was pretty clear. I wasn't around enough before hand to notice it:
In a lot of Frank's earlier posts, he is very mystical. He talks about chakras and energy and a lot of it sounds fairly new-age. Later, as Robert Bruce started becoming more popular and there was much more being spoken of in regards to energy work and chakras on the forum, is when Frank suddenly change his tune. While he acknowledged that there are chakras and they have certain functions, he didn't want to talk about them anymore and regarded them as mystical jibberjabber. I think it's more than possible that he wanted to offer something different than everyone else, he didn't want to be like Bruce and wanted his own teachings that were very different, and ended up telling everyone that what Bruce was teaching was wrong, when I'm not sure that was his real belief on a lot of the matters. In his later days if you asked him about chakras he would blow it off as new-age nonsense. But I KNOW he knew they were fact.
I didn't come around until the end of Frank's time, and his phasing techniques are good stuff, but I'm unsure of all his intentions, especially regarding energy work, as that was Bruce's forte. I still do a lot of energy work and am sure there is something to it. Frank called it a waste.
Quote from: Stookie on September 28, 2010, 11:53:28
Huh, that sounds familiar... oh yeah - that's the exact same thing I was saying about Selea before. I miss her comments.
The difference is that she laughed at people's opinions/beliefs and flat out called them wrong.
I believe I've never seen anything to that degree in the 2000+ posts of his on the forums... nor those in the moderators section either.
I obviously can't speak about personal PM's.
In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it.
Selea is also always welcome to post.
The choice is hers to not stop posting... I enjoyed a good chunk of what she had to say.
QuoteI recently was going through Frank's old posts and here's something I noticed that was pretty clear. I wasn't around enough before hand to notice it:
In a lot of Frank's earlier posts, he is very mystical. He talks about chakras and energy and a lot of it sounds fairly new-age. Later, as Robert Bruce started becoming more popular and there was much more being spoken of in regards to energy work and chakras on the forum, is when Frank suddenly change his tune. While he acknowledged that there are chakras and they have certain functions, he didn't want to talk about them anymore and regarded them as mystical jibberjabber. I think it's more than possible that he wanted to offer something different than everyone else, he didn't want to be like Bruce and wanted his own teachings that were very different, and ended up telling everyone that what Bruce was teaching was wrong, when I'm not sure that was his real belief on a lot of the matters. In his later days if you asked him about chakras he would blow it off as new-age nonsense. But I KNOW he knew they were fact.
I didn't come around until the end of Frank's time, and his phasing techniques are good stuff, but I'm unsure of all his intentions, especially regarding energy work, as that was Bruce's forte. I still do a lot of energy work and am sure there is something to it. Frank called it a waste.
I definitely noticed his progression through the 3 - 4 years he posted here. It was very clear that he started off a bit more accepting of the mystical-ways than he was in the end. I see that as personal growth, really.
In one instance back in 2002 - 03 he referred to the astral as a the "training grounds"... then you can see him move away from it as he progressed beyond thinking it was a mere training ground and realized what it actually was.
And the chakra thing as well that you mention, Stookie.
Nay and catmeow call him rude and arrogant. That's cool... it's entirely their prerogative to not like someone... and furthermore to not like the message that person is trying to convey because of it. On the flip side, I'm also free to disagree with their opinion.
BUT NOTE: I'm *NOT* calling their opinion wrong... I'm saying I simply DISAGREE with them.
Except for extreme cases, I never have and never will say that someone's opinion is WRONG. EVER.
And this goes right back to what Blis said. Again, Blis, SPOT ON. :)
The way I see it is that I couldn't care less what his character was. I mean, as long as he wasn't a murderer or something worse (obviously we have no way of knowing), what he taught is all I give a crap about regarding the man.
So regardless, I'm going to take everything that he left behind and choose to learn from it.
We need a new frank.
I'll be the new frank, Jedi Master of Meaningless BS! That's what you can call me.
I"ll expect a pdf of all my posts in the permanent astral topics forum post haste ryan.
Quote from: personalreality on September 28, 2010, 12:31:03
We need a new frank.
I'll be the new frank, Jedi Master of Meaningless BS! That's what you can call me.
I"ll expect a pdf of all my posts in the permanent astral topics forum post haste ryan.
Well hell, I apparently already worship you anyways!
Consider it done! :)
Quote from: Xanth on September 28, 2010, 11:17:48
I'm sorry ladies...
Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that, please?
And Noy... Jerry can go find his own forums. ;)
Absolutely, because I see you will not recognize your own actions and please refrain from insulting me in the future.
Just in case no one told you all today, I love you all.
Thanks for providing a welcoming community for me and so many others to come share their experiences, concerns, successes, etc.
:lol: :-D 8-)
Quote from: Stookie on September 28, 2010, 11:53:28
In a lot of Frank's earlier posts, he is very mystical. He talks about chakras and energy and a lot of it sounds fairly new-age. Later, as Robert Bruce started becoming more popular and there was much more being spoken of in regards to energy work and chakras on the forum, is when Frank suddenly change his tune. While he acknowledged that there are chakras and they have certain functions, he didn't want to talk about them anymore and regarded them as mystical jibberjabber. I think it's more than possible that he wanted to offer something different than everyone else, he didn't want to be like Bruce and wanted his own teachings that were very different, and ended up telling everyone that what Bruce was teaching was wrong, when I'm not sure that was his real belief on a lot of the matters. In his later days if you asked him about chakras he would blow it off as new-age nonsense. But I KNOW he knew they were fact.
I didn't come around until the end of Frank's time, and his phasing techniques are good stuff, but I'm unsure of all his intentions, especially regarding energy work, as that was Bruce's forte. I still do a lot of energy work and am sure there is something to it. Frank called it a waste.
Suspicious indeed! Truth is truth, it doesn't change with the times.
Quote from: Xanth on September 28, 2010, 12:24:22
The difference is that she laughed at people's opinions/beliefs and flat out called them wrong.
I believe I've never seen anything to that degree in the 2000+ posts of his on the forums... nor those in the moderators section either.
I obviously can't speak about personal PM's.
In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it.
Selea is also always welcome to post.
The choice is hers to not stop posting... I enjoyed a good chunk of what she had to say.
Yeah, she was sooooo welcomed here. :roll: I'm just saying, you're looking from the other side of the fence now. Selea was as legit as Frank. I'm not upset (but I would like selea to be around more), just pointing out perspectives.
QuoteIt was very clear that he started off a bit more accepting of the mystical-ways than he was in the end. I see that as personal growth, really.
In one instance back in 2002 - 03 he referred to the astral as a the "training grounds"... then you can see him move away from it as he progressed beyond thinking it was a mere training ground and realized what it actually was.
And the chakra thing as well that you mention, Stookie.
Yes, you can see personal change, but there is a post where he flat out states that he's not going to talk about chakras anymore (no patience to find it now), where the week before he was, and this was after Bruce had taken over the energy section. From the way he was talking before this, he was doing things with his chakras, and even notes of it later by calling them "energy centers", but refused to make mention of it later in any way that was similar to Bruce. I'm not trying to knock Frank, but it does put him back on earth, or at least seem like a real human being with an ego rather than "Master of Phasing".
We are wasting our breath. Frank is back. For fcks sake. :roll:
Quote from: Stookie on September 28, 2010, 15:20:05
Yes, you can see personal change, but there is a post where he flat out states that he's not going to talk about chakras anymore (no patience to find it now), where the week before he was, and this was after Bruce had taken over the energy section. From the way he was talking before this, he was doing things with his chakras, and even notes of it later by calling them "energy centers", but refused to make mention of it later in any way that was similar to Bruce. I'm not trying to knock Frank, but it does put him back on earth, or at least seem like a real human being with an ego rather than "Master of Phasing".
I'm very confused now Stookie... are you trying to say that people around here consider him a "god"? ...and that he was something MORE than 'just' human?
Cause that's just messed up. :? :-o
And Nay, I've been called much worse... ;)
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/vis.gif)
I can try harder if you like.
I have a vague memory of Frank talking about moving to Canada, he had the money after taking money for his news letters. You live in Canada don't you? :lol:
that's an awesome smiley.
i guess you can't really lock a sticky can you ryan?
Quote from: personalreality on September 28, 2010, 17:40:46
that's an awesome smiley.
I agree. :)
Quotei guess you can't really lock a sticky can you ryan?
I can.
Quote from: Xanth
QuoteI guess you can't really lock a sticky can you ryan?
I can.
Then do it and show your true colours!
Btw thanks for the sex change operation, apparently it was a complete success!
Quote from: XanthI'm sorry ladies...
Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that, please?
1. Offensive to women
2. I am not a woman
A master class in poor interpersonal skills ... and ... another wrong assumption on your part Xanth... !
Nice work!
Quote from: personalreality on September 28, 2010, 17:40:46
that's an awesome smiley.
i guess you can't really lock a sticky can you ryan?
Yes, I love my smilies. But why lock the topic, am I getting warm? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/au.gif)
... it was an honest mistake. The kittens threw me off.
My apologies, please.
When I had the kitten-frog avatar, people often made the same mistake with me.
It's "half" of the reason I decided to change it. :)
Quote from: Xanth on September 28, 2010, 18:37:52
... it was an honest mistake. The kittens threw me off.
My apologies, please.
When I had the kitten-frog avatar, people often made the same mistake with me.
It's "half" of the reason I decided to change it. :)
Honest apology well accepted, but please, there is a lesson in there somewhere.
Quote from: Naykid on September 28, 2010, 18:33:46
Yes, I love my smilies. But why lock the topic, am I getting warm? (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/au.gif)
no, this thread has just become a joke. a whole page of you and ryan arguing.
and it's too bad because this is a permanent thread, you can't really lock it as it has valuable information in it.
Where's the LOVE, PR?
I agree this thread is now valuable, because it gives a good example of when someones ego has taken a dive off a very high cliff. I hope all that read this realize that you, yourself is the best teacher you can have. An exchange of ideas and experiences is what it's all about, not the ramming of it down ones throat nor the ridicule when a different mindset comes to light.
Btw, of course Ryan isn't Frank, I was making a point. I know Frank's fall off that trillion mile high pedestal had to hurt like hell and I'm hoping Ryan doesn't rush to follow him over.
To keep the Lucid Dream conversion thread intact and not detract from it, I split the entire new section of this thread out into it's own and gave it Trish's original subject name. It, literally, has nothing to do with Lucid Dream conversions.
With that said... you may continue Nay. :)
\o/!
Frank was/is fallible
Quote from: Stookie on September 29, 2010, 11:03:58
Frank was/is fallible
Definitely. 100%.
I'm unsure why anyone would have thought contrary. :)
Quote from: Stookie on September 29, 2010, 11:03:58
Frank was/is fallible
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/appl.gif)
Quote from: Xanth on September 29, 2010, 11:22:48
Definitely. 100%.
I'm unsure why anyone would have thought contrary. :)
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/wht.gif)
Quote from: Naykid on September 29, 2010, 13:01:30
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/wht.gif)
Is it not a valid question?
I've never once postulated, or even considered, that the man was anything more than... well... a MAN. A human being.
I'd love to know where and when this 'god' label started being tagged onto Frank.
Quote from: xanthI've never once postulated, or even considered, that the man was anything more than... well... a MAN. A human being.
I'd love to know where and when this 'god' label started being tagged onto Frank.
Oh, this is just splitting hairs and then some. It's silly. Xanth, why are you arguing about the semantics of labels such as "God", "worship" and "infallible". As used here, these are terms of admiration. Many people admire Frank. Stookie is trying to open a dialogue. You know that. You so absolutely know that. But this endless batting off of the issue (of Frank's "worthiness"), by arguing semantics is just wasting everyone's time, it's annoying and it does you no credit.
Why not just admit he is a hero of yours? Instead of arguing semantics? Simple.
I can say that from conversing with ryan in the chat room, he's not as starry eyed as you think or what to make him seem.
True, Xanth likes Frank's work (not Frank, he didn't know frank) and he may be a little bit of a zealot, but honestly, who isn't when they find something (anything) that they feel really resonates with them?
When it all comes down to it, why do you all really care if he seemingly "adores" frank?
Does your perception of another person's life really constitute hijacking a new member's thread and turning into something that has nothing to do with the original post?
And ryan, you get defensive and go crazy. I'd like to think I know you a little bit better than the average forum member and you're really not all crazy defensive like this in conversation on the chat room. So I don't know, just ignore it. It's your personal feelings and no one can ever share them, so why try to defend something that no one can truthfully object to?
Sorry, this kind of isn't my business. I'm a bit nosy, my bad.
Quote from: personalreality on September 29, 2010, 19:37:21
Does your perception of another person's life really constitute hijacking a new member's thread and turning into something that has nothing to do with the original post?
(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n144/Rainey_02/kettleblack.png)
Quotewe already did this.
either you're full of crap or you don't know forum etiquette.
don't post the same thing more than once in different forums.
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/box2.gif)
I was just trying to point out that it's possible Frank had some hang-ups about some stuff, and that he's human and it doesn't make him a bad person or mean his advice wasn't legit. Same with Bruce and every other person who teaches this stuff.
Not that Ryan didn't understand that either. Just stating it, as I never really thought it through until I went through Franks posts and it made me go, "hmmmmm...."
i agree with you stookie. for some reason the picture of have of frank is that of an alcoholic.....i don't know why, maybe it was something of his i read in passing.
and nay, i wasn't even going to respond to you and i probably won't after this, but there's a big difference between using ONE post to address a potential AUP conflict and spending 2+ pages bickering over personal opinions that literally have nothing to do with the OP's question. the fact that you either can't recognize that or do recognize it and are just looking for any opportunity to start some crap with someone is why you shouldn't be here. i'm assuming the latter cause i don't think you're that oblivious to your own actions.
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Quotefor some reason the picture of have of frank is that of an alcoholic.....i don't know why
lol, that had me cracking up for some reason. I guess because I never pictured it like that before.
Quoteand nay, i wasn't even going to respond to you and i probably won't after this,...
Oh, but you did, and now here we go for round 72... oh wait, I'm a mod and can lock it.