Increasing lucidity in LD leads to waking up?

[IsayWhaat]

Hello,

so title pretty much describes my problem. I have lucid dreams and as I want to maintain them, prolonge them and actually make them stable I face problem of waking up. I'm trying to shift my whole conciousness into the non-physical while in LD and as soon as I do so, blackness slowly appears before my eyes and I'm looking into my eye shutters. If I open my eyes at that point I will wake up in physical reality and I surely don't want that. I don't know how to stabilize my lucid experiences because I keep waking up. There are times when I manage to grab onto something in the non-physical, a leaf or some dirt that I hold strongly trying to feel it as much as possible. If I can hold my awareness long enough and fight the blackness I will "come back" to the LD.

Is there anyone else with the same problem? How do you guys handle it?

[Xanth]

Hello,

so title pretty much describes my problem. I have lucid dreams and as I want to maintain them, prolonge them and actually make them stable I face problem of waking up. I'm trying to shift my whole conciousness into the non-physical while in LD and as soon as I do so, blackness slowly appears before my eyes and I'm looking into my eye shutters. If I open my eyes at that point I will wake up in physical reality and I surely don't want that. I don't know how to stabilize my lucid experiences because I keep waking up. There are times when I manage to grab onto something in the non-physical, a leaf or some dirt that I hold strongly trying to feel it as much as possible. If I can hold my awareness long enough and fight the blackness I will "come back" to the LD.

Is there anyone else with the same problem? How do you guys handle it?

What do you mean when you say, "I'm trying to shift my whole conciousness into the non-physical while in LD"?
I read that as meaning you become "lucidly aware", yet you're trying to shift yourself into the non-physical?
This doesn't make any sense, because once you're already in the non-physical... you've also already gained (at least) a lucid awareness. 
You don't need to shift yourself anywhere else. 

You need to bring your awareness more into the reality you're experiencing.
Read this:  http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/how-to-stabilize-and-strengthen-your-projection-experiences/

[EscapeVelocity]

I had the same question that Xanth describes. It seems as if you are lucid and then want to move deeper within the experience; that's like still learning to walk and wanting to start doing track and field hurdles at the same time, a worthy goal but it's a big stretch and will take time. Like Xanth implied, spend some time consolidating your awareness where you are, while presently lucid.

Maybe we are misunderstanding your point...

Stabilizing an experience was confusing for me early on; grabbing ahold of some physical object is good, also demanding clarity every few minutes, also not getting overly fascinated with some object or aspect is key. When the vision/object begins to wobble or shift, that can be a reminder to re-focus on the wider view and look elsewhere for where the experience is directing you. At this level of experience, it is very basic: stay focused within the proper framework or you get dropped instantly. It teaches you where to focus with no excuses; it is tightly-involved training, very simple, right choice/wrong choice. It was very frustrating for me! I got kicked out of experiences left and right! Lol

Have fun & enjoy the ride!

[IsayWhaat]

What do you mean when you say, "I'm trying to shift my whole conciousness into the non-physical while in LD"?
I read that as meaning you become "lucidly aware", yet you're trying to shift yourself into the non-physical?
This doesn't make any sense, because once you're already in the non-physical... you've also already gained (at least) a lucid awareness. 
You don't need to shift yourself anywhere else. 

When I'm lucid I wish to stabilize it to that point it feels almost as physical reality. Even if it will last for 30 seconds, I wish to feel those 30 seconds really pass. I want to be completely there, with all my memories. Once I wake up I wish to feel those 30 seconds really happen. Not just some fragments. And when I try to do that, when I try to really feel being there I start waking up.

You need to bring your awareness more into the reality you're experiencing.
Read this:  http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/how-to-stabilize-and-strengthen-your-projection-experiences/

Exactly what it says in the article. Except, when I try and use all of my 5 senses I don't lock myself in that reality, I start "coming back" to the physical one. It's really hard to ignore (I quote) "the sensory input from that physical body".

[IsayWhaat]

I had the same question that Xanth describes. It seems as if you are lucid and then want to move deeper within the experience; that's like still learning to walk and wanting to start doing track and field hurdles at the same time, a worthy goal but it's a big stretch and will take time. Like Xanth implied, spend some time consolidating your awareness where you are, while presently lucid.

(cut)

More like you are barely standing on your feet because they are sooo shaky and you wish not to walk, you wish to run. But yeah, what it means to consolidate my awareness to where I am lucidly present? Doesn't it mean trying to stabilize the experience. (If so, that's what I'm trying, but it leads me to the process of shifting back to the physical reality.)

[Szaxx]

When aware, take your time, if you move very slowly move through the thought process you'll find the spot where the physical side reappears. Go back a little and you may find the blackness has depth to it.
Any thought from this state will manifest with only a little intent.

[Subtle Traveler]

I really like what others are suggesting to you here.

I also like your idea of picking up an object in the dream (Nice conscious work!), however it is my individual experience that I cannot prolong or stabilize my lucid dreams (I have tried that also). I simply get to participate more consciously in the 'narrative' of that type of experience.

I also like how Jurgen Ziewe talks about lucid dreaming. He consistently suggests (and points to) that the difference between a lucid dream and an OBE is that the LD has an underlying narrative. In fact, he made that comment here on this forum (he is MDM here).

I am not practicing or inducing LD's currently, but not too long ago I had lucid sexual dream where I began gently kissing someone (and of course I wanted to prolong that! right?), but the moment I stopped simply participating in the LD and began to think "how can I continue this dream", I woke up.

My individual experiences with lucid dreaming consistently show me that I cannot prolong them. However, I get to participate in them. I suspect that your path from LD to OBE will become clearer, when your focus is a  "gentle presence" and a "mild curiousity" about the experience.

Thanks for the question. Good luck with participating in those future LD's (they will arrive).

[IsayWhaat]

When aware, take your time, if you move very slowly move through the thought process you'll find the spot where the physical side reappears. Go back a little and you may find the blackness has depth to it.
Any thought from this state will manifest with only a little intent.

I don't think I understand what you mean. Moving through the thought, hm, I've never looked at it from that point of view. How do you "move" through the thought and what do you mean I might find blackness has depth if I go "back" a little?

(cut)
My individual experiences with lucid dreaming consistently show me that I cannot prolong them. However, I get to participate in them. I suspect that your path from LD to OBE will become clearer, when your focus is a  "gentle presence" and a "mild curiousity" about the experience.

Can you explain this a little bit more? Or just drop me an article or something that explains the "gentle presence" and "mild curiousity" please 

[Subtle Traveler]

@IsayWhaat

The two terms I used are just pointers. They are not prescribed labels with a hidden meaning outside what the words are. My sense is that you are over thinking things here (a bit).

When I point to "gentle presence" all I am suggesting is be calmly present in your LD's. Encourage the observer part of yourself (awareness) as much as possible during the narrative of the LD (e.g., like picking up the object and looking at it and feeling it), without bringing in the outside agenda of 'I am going to move to the OBE' or 'I am going to make this happen in the dream'. That goes against the narrative of your LD, and is usually a quick exit. Instead, just be present with the void, dream narrative or whatever else is going on (don't analyze .. calmly and gently observe).

When I used the term "mild curiousity", that is advice that Frank Kepple repeated over and over here years ago. You can get a copy of Frank's posts over at Ryan's (xanth) site, if you are interested in that. I am currently reading that document myself.

Finally, this is a bonus, I found out that this meditation recording from Jurgen Ziewe (before I go to sleep) results in an LD experience for me nearly every time. You may or may not want to try it.

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Free_Deep_Meditation_Sounds_-_Binaural_Beats_files/30_min_deep_meditation-1.mp3

Good luck.

[IsayWhaat]

@IsayWhaat

The two terms I used are just pointers. They are not prescribed labels with a hidden meaning outside what the words are. My sense is that you are over thinking things here (a bit).

When I point to "gentle presence" all I am suggesting is be calmly present in your LD's. Encourage the observer part of yourself (awareness) as much as possible during the narrative of the LD (e.g., like picking up the object and looking at it and feeling it), without bringing in the outside agenda of 'I am going to move to the OBE' or 'I am going to make this happen in the dream'. That goes against the narrative of your LD, and is usually a quick exit. Instead, just be present with the void, dream narrative or whatever else is going on (don't analyze .. calmly and gently observe).

When I used the term "mild curiousity", that is advice that Frank Kepple repeated over and over here years ago. You can get a copy of Frank's posts over at Ryan's (xanth) site, if you are interested in that. I am currently reading that document myself.

Finally, this is a bonus, I found out that this meditation recording from Jurgen Ziewe (before I go to sleep) results in an LD experience for me nearly every time. You may or may not want to try it.

http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Free_Deep_Meditation_Sounds_-_Binaural_Beats_files/30_min_deep_meditation-1.mp3

Good luck.

Thank you, I will try it tonight. I've never tried one of these meditation tracks, do they actually help? Well, you say you have LD almost everytime after you listen to it, hopefully it will have the same effect.

And thanks for clearing things; I never tried to go OBE from my LD, but I definitely tried to change things and to "take control" of it completely. As you said, it always results in, I guess it's called, an exit. Next time, I will try simply flow with it and be present. Won't try and change anything and I'll see where it will get me and go from there. That was my problem, whenever I tried to force something within the experience it would throw me back to the physical reality.

[Subtle Traveler]

No problem. Glad to share my experience.  

Yeah, tapes can help (certainly not always). A key thing is that there is calmness and your body is relaxed. If you can let a primary focus on your breathing calm you, and then just let the recording be in the background, you should experience some effect.

Since I overlooked the fact that you were aiming for an LD only (not an OBE), I will warn you that this particular recording is a binaural beat. It should be a 4 Mhz differential between the two tones, and the effect is that it aligns the left and right hemispheres. That alignment is what increases the chances of the LD. Since you have not used them before, it may not feel calming at first, so go with it for a while but do not hesitate to stop if needed. I am fairly conditioned to this stuff (going on 9 years of meditation now), so my body relaxes despite the oddness of the binaural tones.

By the way, by right clicking the recording you can download it to your computer (using "save as") and transfer it to your own devices. I keep an old Ipod Nano with all my meditations on it next to the bed. Overall, I have found meditation tapes quite helpful myself over the years. btw, Ziewe has another meditation recording on his site (using "Om"). However, I have not experienced an LD using it.

[IsayWhaat]

No problem. Glad to share my experience.  

Yeah, tapes can help (certainly not always). A key thing is that there is calmness and your body is relaxed. If you can let a primary focus on your breathing calm you, and then just let the recording be in the background, you should experience some effect.

Since I overlooked the fact that you were aiming for an LD only (not an OBE), I will warn you that this particular recording is a binaural beat. It should be a 4 Mhz differential between the two tones, and the effect is that it aligns the left and right hemispheres. That alignment is what increases the chances of the LD. Since you have not used them before, it may not feel calming at first, so go with it for a while but do not hesitate to stop if needed. I am fairly conditioned to this stuff (going on 9 years of meditation now), so my body relaxes despite the oddness of the binaural tones.

By the way, by right clicking the recording you can download it to your computer (using "save as") and transfer it to your own devices. I keep an old Ipod Nano with all my meditations on it next to the bed. Overall, I have found meditation tapes quite helpful myself over the years. btw, Ziewe has another meditation recording on his site (using "Om"). However, I have not experienced an LD using it.

Yeah, I tried listening to it, but I can't. I keep hearing water in the background and it makes me so uncomfortable. I don't know why, but water, rain specifically makes me really anxious. A lot of people connect water with something peaceful and calm, but to me that is being ignorant. Water seems peaceful, but it can pull you down within seconds, it looks clear on the surface, but in depths is so dark and unknown it really makes me uneasy. (I totally went Shakespear there, but yeah, it is the way it is).

Are there any of those beats with sensation of fire? That you can hear cracking sounds of burning wood? Whenever I was camping, I was sleeping like a baby next to a campfire - no bugs were able to disturb me  . Well, fire makes me feel comfortable and safe, and on previous post someone told me not to listen to those beats because I can mess up with them (as I have no knowledge about them) so I never searched any.

[Szaxx]

When you dream you are pure thought, a consciousness without the body. If you suddenly realise this and control it, you can enter a LD. However, if you stop and think, the awareness can be that strong you wake up.
By realizing you're dreaming within a dream, you can with practice, slow down the process by focusing on the dream and slowly pulling yourself out of it.
The same thing happens in nightmares, you become self aware and get the hell out of it. Instantly waking in this case. Its the pulling out process that we all have that needs slowing. The dream can be stopped by a thought and then it breaks up leaving a grainy blackness with you floating inside it. Its the 3D blackness we know well and from this you can do many things with a thought. Having full awareness and NOT thinking of the sleeping body is quite tricky to master. Having sething in mind you want to experience will manifest in some way.
From this launchpad the limits have no boundaries. Only you and what you know are the limits.
Take your time and blend in with the surroundings to stay out of the physical.