Lucid Dream?

[xxSaffronxx]

Ok i dreamt I was flying in the sky last night but my arm was stretched really really really long and someone on the ground was holding onto my hand to help me control it. I remember thinking it was good, but felt a little bit nervous about lack of control.

I dont think I had any control over my dream though and from what I have read you are meant to have control in a lucid dream.

Any thoughts on this experience? Or was it just purely a normal dream?

[Xanth]

It sounds like you were a kite!
Someone down below was flying you. 

But in any case...

You can be lucid in a dream and not have any control over it.  That's because "Lucid" only reflects your conscious knowledge that you are dreaming.

Control of the lucid dream only comes when you can become more consciously aware.

So, my question would be how consciously aware were you?

~Ryan

[xxSaffronxx]

flying me as a kite is a very good description!

well during the dream i wasnt thinking i was dreaming - i dont think that has ever happened to me during a dream

[Yin]

hm, are you very aerodynamic Saffron? A nice and pleasant dream you had to me. What is the difference between a lucid and regular dream besides the amount of conscious awareness? If you want to get technical if it was a normal dream you wouldn't even remember it so it was a lucid dream with a low level of awareness. So with that said.. any dream you can remember was a lucid dream, which would be phasing into a scene with a low level of awareness.

[omcasey]

If I remember it later I call it a dream.  If I know I am dreaming at the time I am dreaming I call it a lucid dream.

[Yin]

If I remember it later I call it a dream.  If I know I am dreaming at the time I am dreaming I call it a lucid dream.

so really everyone's definitions is so unique in this terminology that basically only the dreamer can define it for themselves lest they subscribe to a set definition they may or may not even agree with

[omcasey]

The first time I woke up in a dream, the difference between this experience and the one of remembering it later was staggering.  I definitely wanted more of the former, and nothing more to do with the latter at all.  The difference between knowing I am dreaming, and dreaming and not knowing it is huge.  It is not a small thing that will get by anyone.  I don't think.

[Yin]

Well, there will always be fluctuations in the awareness and remembrance of the dream that sometimes I can remember I was remembering in a dream yet I had forgot it later. Sometimes it will take other people describing their dreams for my subconscious to make the connection and remember my dreams. What I need to find out I suppose is if when we experience is it from immediate memory or do we experience it then it goes to memory?

[Xanth]

hm, are you very aerodynamic Saffron? A nice and pleasant dream you had to me. What is the difference between a lucid and regular dream besides the amount of conscious awareness? If you want to get technical if it was a normal dream you wouldn't even remember it so it was a lucid dream with a low level of awareness. So with that said.. any dream you can remember was a lucid dream, which would be phasing into a scene with a low level of awareness.

Well, obviously, you're free to use your own definitions... but, I believe that being able to "remember" your dream has no bearing on whether you were lucid or not.  As I said, a Lucid Dream is one where you *recognize* that you are within the dream environment.  This naturally means that you'll remember the experience... you might not remember it completely, but you'll at least bring back some kind of sensations or feelings with you when you awaken.

~Ryan

[Naykid]

Yeah, I've had plenty of dreams I could remember that certainly weren't lucid.  I'm pretty sure in one dream I had, where I was using a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for a camera, had I been lucid, I would have realized that you can't use a sandwich for a camera.    I wish I didn't remember such nonsensical dreams because sometimes I can get caught up in analyzing them too much.

[Yin]

Well, obviously, you're free to use your own definitions... but, I believe that being able to "remember" your dream has no bearing on whether you were lucid or not.  As I said, a Lucid Dream is one where you *recognize* that you are within the dream environment.  This naturally means that you'll remember the experience... you might not remember it completely, but you'll at least bring back some kind of sensations or feelings with you when you awaken.

~Ryan

Well.. to me.. any dream that has any awareness enough that it could be consciously remembered=lucid. To most people Lucid means a high level of awareness, however.. comparing lucid dreams to regular dreams is like saying there is nothing in between. Plainly speaking.. I simply don't like the term as there are also varying degrees to which one can "recognize" they are within a dream environment so for now I'm just calling every dream remembered a lucid dream until terminology is put in order to better describe such degrees of a lack of awareness. I can't say much further due to not knowing as to if when we experience is it from immediate memory or do we experience it then it goes to memory. Basically though is everything we experience consciously derived from the memory of experiencing it? If so then unless you remember what you experienced you will not even know you were experiencing it even mid dreaming thus remembrance has all to do with whether you are lucid or not.

Yeah, I've had plenty of dreams I could remember that certainly weren't lucid.  I'm pretty sure in one dream I had, where I was using a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for a camera, had I been lucid, I would have realized that you can't use a sandwich for a camera.    I wish I didn't remember such nonsensical dreams because sometimes I can get caught up in analyzing them too much.

You had to have been at a certain level of awareness to even consciously remember it later, which=lucid to me, for reasons described above.

[Naykid]

Well.. to me.. any dream that has any awareness enough that it could be consciously remembered=lucid. To most people Lucid means a high level of awareness, however.. comparing lucid dreams to regular dreams is like saying there is nothing in between. Plainly speaking.. I simply don't like the term as there are also varying degrees to which one can "recognize" they are within a dream environment so for now I'm just calling every dream remembered a lucid dream until terminology is put in order to better describe such degrees of a lack of awareness. I can't say much further due to not knowing as to if when we experience is it from immediate memory or do we experience it then it goes to memory. Basically though is everything we experience consciously derived from the memory of experiencing it? If so then unless you remember what you experienced you will not even know you were experiencing it even mid dreamining thus remembrance has all to do with whether you are lucid or not.

You had to have been at a certain level of awareness to even consciously remember it later, which=lucid to me, for reasons described above.

I suppose I need to be aware on a very small level to remember, but to me, lucid means, I'm aware at that moment, and I can make conscious decisions.  In many dreams, I'm on what you could say is autopilot. I'm along for the ride, I am not even close to being lucid.  Like I said about the sandwich, if I was conscious/lucid, I would have thrown the sandwich away and taken a proper picture of the werewolf in the room. 

[Yin]

I suppose I need to be aware on a very small level to remember, but to me, lucid means, I'm aware at that moment, and I can make conscious decisions.  In many dreams, I'm on what you could say is autopilot. I'm along for the ride, I am not even close to being lucid.  Like I said about the sandwich, if I was conscious/lucid, I would have thrown the sandwich away and taken a proper picture of the werewolf in the room.  

I understand what you mean by that entirely, it's just I am seeing the word used almost as a means to express an opposite, such that lucid=high awareness and a dream= low awareness, when dreams are never so cut and dry. There are some dreams I know I'm dreaming and can wake up whenever I want yet I'm not aware enough that I know I can influence the dream so in that as you said I am on "autopilot" yet I can.. "eject from the plane" as well whenever I want. So is that a regular dream or a lucid dream? With the definitions as they currently are, it's basically pure opinion, there is no incremental terminology for the degrees of awareness that one can have during a dream which honestly is what leads to most of these Lucid dreams or not questions.

[Naykid]

I understand what you mean by that entirely, it's just I am seeing the word used almost as a means to express an opposite, such that lucid=high awareness and a dream= low awareness, when dreams are never so cut and dry. There are some dreams I know I'm dreaming and can wake up whenever I want where I'm not aware enough that I know I can influence the dream so in that as you said I am on "autopilot" yet I can.. "eject from the plane" as well whenever I want. So is that a regular dream or a lucid dream?

Are you saying that you are aware when you are on autopilot and then you can eject from it?  Then, that means the minute you are aware.. you are lucid, thus turning your regular dream into a lucid dream.

[omcasey]

Most importantly, to me, lucid dreaming means lucid of the fact that I am dreaming.  

If I am dreaming and I do not know *this* then I am not lucid dreaming.  As I see, the term fits itself well, I've no qualms.  This said, I also have no qualms putting other elements under the umbrella of the term lucid dreaming (so long as the key element is first understood).  Reece Jones did an excellent youtube series titled "The Five Layers of a Lucid Dream", delving into layers of lucidity within a lucid dream:  http://omtalks.yuku.com/topic/555/t/Layers-of-Lucidity-in-Lucid-Dreaming.html.  Excellent relay..

 

[omcasey]

There are some dreams I know I'm dreaming and can wake up whenever I want where I'm not aware enough that I know I can influence the dream so in that as you said I am on "autopilot" yet I can.. "eject from the plane" as well whenever I want. So is that a regular dream or a lucid dream?

Is it the dream you who knows this, or the you in the bed that knows it?

If the former, you are lucid dreaming.  If the latter, you are not.

[Yin]

Are you saying that you are aware when you are on autopilot and then you can eject from it?  Then, that means the minute you are aware.. you are lucid, thus turning your regular dream into a lucid dream.

But I am not so lucid that I can control the environment and my own actions, so it is a different level of lucidity, and thus we have lucidity covering many different levels of awareness, which is what I don't like.

Is it the dream you who knows this, or the you in the bed that knows it?
If the former, you are lucid dreaming.  If the latter, you are not.

I do not believe there is a difference between the two.

Most importantly, to me, lucid dreaming means lucid of the fact that I am dreaming.  

If I am dreaming and I do not know *this* then I am not lucid dreaming.  As I see, the term fits itself well, I've no qualms.  This said, I also have no qualms putting other elements under the umbrella of the term lucid dreaming (so long as the key element is first understood).  Reece Jones did an excellent youtube series titled "The Five Layers of a Lucid Dream", delving into layers of lucidity within a lucid dream:  http://omtalks.yuku.com/topic/555/t/Layers-of-Lucidity-in-Lucid-Dreaming.html.  Excellent relay..

To me if you are remembering the dream while dreaming it then you are knowledgeable of the fact you are dreaming just not on a level that you can acknowledge it to yourself, which, sounds confusing. I understand that the key element is being aware of the dream in regards to the fact you are dreaming, it is just the term itself encompasses more than it should while leaving no room for any variances. You're either lucid dreaming or you're not.

[Naykid]

But I am not so lucid that I can control the environment and my own actions, so it is a different level of lucidity, and thus we have lucidity covering many different levels of awareness, which is what I don't like.

I find it strange that you are aware enough to know when to, 'eject' but you can't control the environment.  Don't know what to tell ya.

I do not believe there is a difference between the two.

It seems so obvious to me that are different.  I wish I knew what to tell you, to help you grasp it.

To me if you are remembering the dream while dreaming it then you are knowledgeable of the fact you are dreaming just not on a level that you can acknowledge it to yourself, which, sounds confusing.

lol it does sound confusing, when you say things like that. lol  No offense.  But IMO, if you are aware of dreaming, whilst dreaming, you are lucid.

Sorry I couldn't be any clearer.  There is one heck of a storm going on here, and my electricity has gone off once already.

[Yin]

I find it strange that you are aware enough to know when to, 'eject' but you can't control the environment.  Don't know what to tell ya.
 It seems so obvious to me that are different.  I wish I knew what to tell you, to help you grasp it.
lol it does sound confusing, when you say things like that. lol  No offense.  But IMO, if you are aware of dreaming, whilst dreaming, you are lucid.

Sorry I couldn't be any clearer.  There is one heck of a storm going on here, and my electricity has gone off once already.

I find it strange also, that is why I gave it as an example, as it has happened multiple times and perplexed me because I'm watching the scene and I'll be like mmk I've had enough time to wake up now. Could it be that I simply didn't want to control it even though I knew I could?

Well, different in what manner, is probably the question, I believe that the same me in the body is the same consciousness as the one dreaming, I'll have to read it again and respond properly. I think I understand.. to me, if you know you are dreaming while in the same state correlating to the area of consciousness being experienced then the you in the bed should be able to also due to how memory works.. unless I misunderstood, as I don't believe the you in the bed can know without the you in the dream knowing to some degree also.


Yes it does sound confusing, aware on what level that you are dreaming? This is probably where we differ.. it is not so simple that you can just be aware/unaware, I think of awareness as a percentage, such that you can be 50%, 70%, 40%, etc. Lucid/not lucid implies either 100% or 0%.

You shouldn't be on your comp if you're in a lightning storm >.>

[Naykid]

lol yeah, we have surge protectors. 

I guess, now that you got me thinking a bit harder on it while doing some dinner dishes..    I pretty much act the same in the physical as I do in the astral.  What I mean by that is I react extremely quick.  Now, that can be good and bad.  Mostly good, IMO.  Maybe it has something to do with the fact that mentally I'm like a hummingbird.  I'm very hyper. 

I will say, you will have me thinking on this for awhile. 

[Yin]

lol yeah, we have surge protectors.  

I guess, now that you got me thinking a bit harder on it while doing some dinner dishes..    I pretty much act the same in the physical as I do in the astral.  What I mean by that is I react extremely quick.  Now, that can be good and bad.  Mostly good, IMO.  Maybe it has something to do with the fact that mentally I'm like a hummingbird.  I'm very hyper.  

I will say, you will have me thinking on this for awhile.  

Surges can go bad, especially if they're the cheap kind, I know this from reading.. and experience with them. If you don't have a surge that actually tells you if its good or not and isn't relatively new I wouldn't trust it. You take the exact same consciousness with you in the astral as you have in the physical, so, a hummingbird you shall be. Just don't react so quick you jump to conclusions.. as I've had that happen to me.. often, and then I make myself look stupid x.x, I don't think its avoidable tbh. Thinking is always a good thing  

[Naykid]

Surges can go bad, especially if they're the cheap kind, I know this from reading.. and experience with them. If you don't have a surge that actually tells you if its good or not and isn't relatively new I wouldn't trust it. You take the exact same consciousness with you in the astral as you have in the physical, so, a hummingbird you shall be. Just don't react so quick you jump to conclusions.. as I've had that happen to me.. often, and then I make myself look stupid x.x, I don't think its avoidable tbh. Thinking is always a good thing  

They aren't cheap, we are good to go, thanks for your concern though.

And I'd also say, I'm quite pleased with how I react to things and with all the years, geez, since I was a child, I'd say I'm doing pretty good.  Heck, no one is perfect, but I've had a pretty good run of it.   You never have to guess where I'm coming from either, and that's a plus IMO.  I think that's why the autopilot dreams I have, even though I'm not consciously in control of them, I react how I would do so and I can sometimes come away from them with some kind of lesson.  But anyhoo, I'm repeating myself. 

[Yin]

They aren't cheap, we are good to go, thanks for your concern though.

And I'd also say, I'm quite pleased with how I react to things and with all the years, geez, since I was a child, I'd say I'm doing pretty good.  Heck, no one is perfect, but I've had a pretty good run of it.   You never have to guess where I'm coming from either, and that's a plus IMO.  I think that's why the autopilot dreams I have, even though I'm not consciously in control of them, I react how I would do so and I can sometimes come away from them with some kind of lesson.  But anyhoo, I'm repeating myself. 

the entirety of this thread has been semantics, so, nothing wrong there. In my dreams.. I react in a mannerism that is particular to myself on autopilot as well, when I think about it, which is something I didn't realize until I also just thought about it. That's logical though.. when we think about who is doing the dreaming.

[omcasey]

Well, different in what manner, is probably the question, I believe that the same me in the body is the same consciousness as the one dreaming, I'll have to read it again and respond properly. I think I understand.. to me, if you know you are dreaming while in the same state correlating to the area of consciousness being experienced then the you in the bed should be able to also due to how memory works.. unless I misunderstood, as I don't believe the you in the bed can know without the you in the dream knowing to some degree also.

I know I did not state it altogether clearly, but of course I am not spotlighting the consciousness, but rather the point of perspective.  If I am laying in my bed, privy to the fact that I am dreaming, this to me is not a lucid dream.  However, if from within the dream, I realize (while walking down the streets of London let's say) I am dreaming, ie: in a non-physical environment, then this to me is a lucid dream.  The consciousness aware of each is of course the same, it is the point of perspective that makes the difference.  In the former, regardless of the awareness I am for all due purposes in my bed.  In the latter, I am in London ( ! ), real as real can be..  These experiences are not likely to be compared or confused, once each has actually been experienced.  

[Yin]

I know I did not state it altogether clearly, but of course I am not spotlighting the consciousness, but rather the point of perspective.  If I am laying in my bed, privy to the fact that I am dreaming, this to me is not a lucid dream.  However, if from within the dream, I realize (while walking down the streets of London let's say) I am dreaming, ie: in a non-physical environment, then this to me is a lucid dream.  The consciousness aware of each is of course the same, it is the point of perspective that makes the difference.  In the former, regardless of the awareness I am for all due purposes in my bed.  In the latter, I am in London ( ! ), real as real can be..  These experiences are not likely to be compared or confused, once each has actually been experienced.  

From that perspective it seems to me like you're talking an f1 overlay not being a lucid dream while not being in an overlay is a lucid dream. You're explaining viewing the dream from a distance vs actually being phased into scene. If you want to make that differentiation as your definition, then that's fine, and I will agree with it since it does not incorporate levels of awareness. I actually had a dream today that when I think about it was phased into the scene and viewed from a distance at other parts. Going on a roller coaster ride that turns out to be someone driving through ice slipping all over the place almost falling off the track is fun.. I don't know how we made it through *phew*