My brother has been able to achieve four or five lucid dreams lately. In a few he has remembered to try AP techniques but has not been successful with them. These include feeling for his physical body, falling backwards (as Robert Bruce has mentioned), and affirming aloud that he wants to project. None have proven to be successful and he is wondering if there are any others who have been taking the lucid dreaming route for projecting. If so, what techniques do you use? Whether or not these are successful please list some as everyone is different and some techniques that don't work for some may work for others. All input is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Quote from: Sagar on July 13, 2014, 03:49:54
My brother has been able to achieve four or five lucid dreams lately. In a few he has remembered to try AP techniques but has not been successful with them. These include feeling for his physical body, falling backwards (as Robert Bruce has mentioned), and affirming aloud that he wants to project. None have proven to be successful and he is wondering if there are any others who have been taking the lucid dreaming route for projecting. If so, what techniques do you use? Whether or not these are successful please list some as everyone is different and some techniques that don't work for some may work for others. All input is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
See, this is the major problem with these labels...
Tell your brother that he was already successful in projecting. A lucid dream *IS* a projection. It's just a different label people use.
There was no point in trying different AP techniques because he was already projecting.
Anytime you're consciously aware you're experiencing a reality which you identify as not being this physical reality, it's a projection.
I explain it in more detail here: http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/
This is his brother here. That is an interesting perspective. Based on your article, if I am understanding you correctly, you are stating that a dream IS an astral projection... However the dreamer is not aware of it (in a normal dream), semi aware (in a lucid dream) and experiencing fully waking consciousness during an astral projection. This strikes me as confusing because during dreams the dreamer may be around his family for example, maybe dreaming that they are out to lunch. Now let's say that he is fully conscious of it. Fully conscious to where you would describe as astrally aware, wouldn't that still not be an astral projection because during that time the family would all truly be sleeping, given that an astral projection is experienced in real time? In that sense, isn't labeling that experience a dream proper? I might not be understanding you correctly though.
Quote from: Sagar on July 13, 2014, 17:24:14
This is his brother here.
Hi! Nice to meet you!
I'll go through this step by step! :)
QuoteThat is an interesting perspective. Based on your article, if I am understanding you correctly, you are stating that a dream IS an astral projection... However the dreamer is not aware of it (in a normal dream), semi aware (in a lucid dream) and experiencing fully waking consciousness during an astral projection.
Correct!
One thing I realized very quickly as I begin to research "dreams" is that humanity actually has absolutely NO IDEA what a dream is or where they come from. No clue what-so-ever.
So it makes me kind of laugh when someone tries to compare an experience they have to a dream or calls something someone has "just a dream".
I've found that what we humans call a "dream" simply doesn't exist. There's only projections of consciousness away from this physical reality with varying levels of "awareness".
QuoteThis strikes me as confusing because during dreams the dreamer may be around his family for example, maybe dreaming that they are out to lunch.
And if this dreamer didn't realize they were dreaming, then it would simply be a "non-physical dream awareness experience".
QuoteNow let's say that he is fully conscious of it. Fully conscious to where you would describe as astrally aware, wouldn't that still not be an astral projection because during that time the family would all truly be sleeping, given that an astral projection is experienced in real time?
You're making some pretty big assumptions.
First, realize that what you think you know about the term "dream" is what is called pseudo-knowledge.
As I said above, our science has, LITERALLY, no idea what a dream is or where it comes from.
You can find this out for yourself by doing some basic research on dreams... start with Google.
So, with your description of events above, you're still relying upon pseudo-knowledge regarding dreams. Dreams, in my opinion, don't exist. There is nothing that a consciousness does that can be called a dream.
I would most definitely describe your scenario as an astral awareness experience, no doubt. If they were having this non-physical experience and they had the same "waking awareness" as they do while physically awake, then yes, it's an astral awareness experience... or as most people would call it, an astral projection. If, instead, they were having this non-physical experience and they only realized they were dreaming, yet didn't quite have a good hold of who or what they were... they were perhaps still going along with the scene, then that would be a lucid awareness experience. It's still a projection... it's just one where they're not fully aware. There's nothing wrong with that, and it shouldn't be something that is considered a failure or anything. It's still a perfectly good, perfectly valid non-physical experience.
Your next assumption is that an astral projection is experienced in real time. There are many experiences you'll find on this very forum where the experiencer interprets the flow of time very differently from someone else's experience. So the claim that they happen in real time doesn't really hold true. This was something that became extremely apparent to me very quickly upon reading other people's experiences.
QuoteIn that sense, isn't labeling that experience a dream proper?
See above. :)
QuoteI might not be understanding you correctly though.
You're kind of understanding me, but you're mixing/confusing my perspective with pseudo-knowledge of dreaming.
My opinion is that if you want to really progress in this subject... then forgetting most of what you think you know about dreaming and what you already believe about "astral projection" is paramount. You can't begin to learn if your cup is already full. :)
I hope that clears some issues and fills in some blanks for you.
In the end, what I'm talking about here is MY perspective. You ultimately have to find your own way.
Just as I began with someone else's perspective here (Frank Kepple), you'll find one that resonates with you and you'll go from there. I've long since shed the majority of what Frank taught us here on the Astral Pulse and I believe, as I said above, that you eventually have to move on and find your own path.
It just doesn't hurt to have something to follow as a guide to find your way... the problem comes when you believe that your guide is a rule.
Take what you read with a grain of salt. Experience things for yourself. Log everything. Experiment lots. You'll find your own perspective eventually.
That absolutely filled in some blanks. I will definitely research dreaming in more depth. I think where I was going wrong was purely thinking of the RTZ when talking about astral projection. As far as my cup being full, great analogy by the way, I will need to gain more experience on the subject to truly understand. Thank you for your insight! It was incredibly beneficial.