Lucid to obe

[Rakon]

Hi, Toriack!

I've had some succes with converting LDs into OBE's. I don't know anything about classical 'LD to OBE' techniques, but I'll tell you how I do it.

I once had a long, long lucid dream, and I really didn't know what to do anymore, so I decided to try to have an OBE. I really had no idea what to do. I just created a totally white scenario and asked:
"May I project?"
I asked nobody in particular, I just asked. Anyway, the vibrations started and I would have had a successful OBE if it wasn't for the pain in my back..

Every time from that LD, after I spend some time being lucid (quite a while), the vibrations simply start by themself.

I know it's kind of weird, but that's the way it is. Perhaps you should try it.

I hope I helped. Cheers!

[astralpwka]

As soon as you're lucid, imagine yourself next to your sleeping body. If you are actually next to it, you might already be out. This usually isn't the case for me. Once I go to my body, I usually find myself between dream and awake, but aware of my body. Then it's just a matter of willing myself out (Sometimes you might have to roll out. While you might think this will cause you to roll out of bed, my physical body has never moved, and only my astral body has rolled out). It's fast, usually easy, no fear limitations, and has a high success rate per number of attempts from lucid dream.

[upstream]

If your goal is to get awareness of your paralysed body then flying upwards in a lucid dream or concentrating a point that you move upwards away from the top of your dream head should work. The chance to having an RTZ-OBE may be greater with this method, however, I use a more reliable and safer trick to induce OBE-like experiences.

What I do is to take the exact position of my sleeping body in the dream. This is called the twin position in Castaneda's book, The Art Of Dreaming.

None of these tricks guarantee an RTZ-OBE, but make the old dream end and start a new one. The new dream will be started by the feeling of separation hence the expectaions that it will takes place where you sleep.

I have developed my personal style to reach the twin position. First, I fly off from the ground and detach my attention from the dream environment by observing tiny details of my palm. After I become a freely drifting "palm-spora" I order myself aloud to get taken back into my sleeping body.

As a result of my order I would have some erratic fly similar to a falling leaf. It is very likely that I will be moved through some walls around, hence the need for deataching my attention from the dream by observing some details of my palm. Basically, I need to be moved by a force that is entirely out of my conscious control.

As I fly around my dream body gradually match the position of my sleeping body then pressurised onto the ground somewhere into the twin position. At this point I loose my sight and I'm free to separate from the twin position in any dream I want, or if I'm not specific, into a dream of my bedroom. The entire process takes about half a minute.

[Toriack]

hi
I have managed to have 5 lucid dreams now. My first goal was to have an obe but could not do it so I tryed lucid dreams. I have heart thar it should be possible to convert lucid dreams to obe, but how? I have only reached the vibrations in obe attempts and no further. Can anyone help?

[experimental]

hi their

i had a idea one time that helped me in haveing a projection that  came from a lucid dream and it involved setting  a alarm clock to go off at a time usually when i m asleep . If you set your alarm clock to go off at lets say 3 in the morning when your generly in a deep sleep , your knocked to awakefullness , at the point when your  awake , you simply switch the alarm off, and drift back  into a semi-con state . If you can hold that semi-con state,  simply attempt to jump out yourself .

It makes abit sense , because when your trying to have a out of body from the begining , you have to prepare yourself for the expereince ahead , well when you set the alarm clock to go off, you skip out the hard work , because you allow yourself to drift into sleep normally, the key is in this idea , in my expereinces , is to try your hardest to keep aware after you v switched the alarm off . I v had atleast 3  lucid expereinces that felt like there were astral projections somewhere inbetween useing this idea .

Hope this helps  

[loco]

What I do is to take the exact position of my sleeping body in the dream. This is called the twin position in Castaneda's book, The Art Of Dreaming.

The art of dreaming is an excellent book.
That´s a highly recomended read.
 Sorry if I go a bit out of topic now but there are some points on that book which I would love to get a clearer view and hear some opinions from other readers:
Don´t you think there is some kind of fundamental division in this forums about the way  people approach theyr energetic body ? Wasn´t in that book that Don Juan mention the differences between stalkers and dreamers? What do you think about it? I think that was a very interesting subject.
Also, what was Don Juan (or Castaneda)  saying  about the difference between the energetic body and the dream body (if any) ?
And/or  the difference between a LD and a OOB?
Cheers

[Toriack]

Hi again.
I tried to will myself to my body by demanding it. I started to move without doing anything. And was able to go through walls in a straight determined line. I had no control but was moving. Before that I tried to pass through my door but the force was too great and I was constantly pushed back.. How can I beat the force and move where I like? And was it an obe or lucid dream?

[upstream]

loco:

I think CC's books are fictions and his life was a liar. Would I like to be wrong about this! For me labeling people as stalkers and dreamers seems just as artificial as judging them by the color of their pubic hair. Although he was clearly a talented dreamer I've found little application of his knowledge. Twin dreaming is one of them. Zooming, speaking aloud our will and emotional processing are another. They are not invented by Castaneda though. What I'm grateful for is his most original exercises: the palm based stabilizations and attention drives.

In order to discuss the differences between LD & OBE first we should define those states by summoning their attributes. This is something I'm not interested in. Some people may say that that every dream is an OBE because when we are dreaming we don't focus on our physical bodies. Blameless, however a more useful distinction would be based on the level of dream awareness or on the degree in which our dream personality is matching with our waking personality.

Others would emphasize the role of our awareness. It seems true that if we do think a lot our awareness is internalized therefore we project our expectations on our environment and can't perceive it as it is. Expectations and beliefs can be useful as well. They are our most powerful state makers. If we believe we having an OBE we unconsciously direct ourselves to get contact with energies and experiences we consider apt for an OBE.

At our current developmental stage, I think, we are electromagnetic patterns in the Earth's magnetosphere. The physical body is our instrument to localize our attention, to perceive and manipulate the physical matter. The energy body is an interface that condensates from the Earth's magnetosphere at the exact spot where we believing we are.

We can picture the energy body in the space-time as a cone. Its top conclude on the etheric body that remains bounded to the organism while its board part that corresponds to the dream representation is projected into the magnetosphere. From the point of view of a waking observer this part of the energy body may looks like a giant cloud. In the case of a lower level astral projection this cloud have various spurs and threads overlapping and connecting the physical counterparts of our dream environments. It may has some independent seeds as well. Energy bodies of upper level astral experiences has the size of the entire Earth's magnetosphere. Their lower level segments mark the trajectory on which they have been blossomed into time and space.

Due to the fact that our senses shut down gradually at the verge of sleep we identify ourselves with our body even after we have fallen asleep. Just before the felt experience of separation takes place we still believe that we are inside our body - which is I believe never the case. After the paralysis set in we are capable to separate in the old-school way. This will results in a classic out of body experience that may or may not be an RTZ-OBE. It depends on the segment or layer of the energy body in which the informational pattern (called waking personality) is reside in at that moment of separation. And it depends of course on our expectations about our current environment.

Most of our OBEs are not real time zone OBE at all. Beside strong supporting beliefs, RTZ-OBEs requires high awareness, externalized focus and special attention training as Castaneda has described. If we woke up around the onset of paralysis in those parts of the energy body that are dense enough to perceive the RTZ our vision may be likely present before separation. Near the physical body the dense parts of the energy body (the tip of the cone) is surrounded by etheric substance which is bounded to the organism and can't follow the identification point more than a 1-2 meters (it has its own layers and densities).

We have a natural layer in the energy body to operate in with a tendency to gradually shifts away from the RTZ as we get more trained. It moves away from the RTZ in every single OBE session as well. In most cases re-separation is not enough to restore an RTZ-OBE. We need to re-condensate a proper energy body from the magnetosphere for getting a real RTZ-projection by exercising our attention and will, and by tricking our beliefs.

As for the dream body. As I see it, it's only a comforting factor that mimics the physical body, or more exactly the etheric body. It exists only when we are aware of it. Also, it is an interface through we could manipulate our consciousness/etheric body. We can do it more efficiently than through the physical body. In contrast to the physical body the dream body instantly mirrors the state of the etheric body which is the monitor of our entire energy body. As being the cone of the energy body like a tip of an iceberg the etheric body is a manifestation of our current energetic makeup and personality.

[upstream]

Toriack:

Flying through walls may be tricky at first. I advice you to look away when a wall approaches you. Expect penetration and don't fear the impact. In this state the walls acts like massless visual symbols from a computer game that went wrong.

Before you arrive to your destination you may lost your sight and find yourself in a brown, tinkling void or perceive incomprehensible visions. If you focus on something your flight will disrupted. If you lost every visuals you will likely wake up. Therefore you may have to detach your visual awareness from your environment by focusing minute details on your palm.

Make your intention very clear by speaking it aloud before you let go. Hover off and don't interfere the force you find yourself being carried by. Turn down your expectations about which route should the force take you on. Let your energy body to do this job without any interference on your part.

[loco]

Upstream:
 Of course, anyone believes whatever he/she wants to, that´s out of discussion. But you left me very confused now...how is that you consider CC books a fiction and at the same time consider him a talented  dreamer ? That´s a contradiction to me. Could you give an explanation ?
The only I can think of now is that you mean he built up fantastic (in the sense of fiction, at least) books around few truths experienced by himself.
 Myself, had read most CC books with true amusement. They used to be very enjoyable reads for sure. But things turned more...well, serious once I managed to see my hands in a dream. That was it for me. Actually,if I get your point, does not matter much if he had never  been in Oaxaca , or even met any Don Juan, that´s true (is that your point?) as long as he describes very detaied dream experiences and methods, and as I could verify, incredibly true.