clearing the mind

[Leyla]

Not sure why, but I am very resistant to the "clearing the mind" section of astral dynamics and it has brought me to a stand still.

For some reason every time I try it I become frightened. And I'm not sure what my hang up is.


For one, I don't know what clearing the mind is supposed to "do" to me exactly? What is the point of it? What is the goal of clearing my mind?

Please, someone convince me of a good reason why I should try it.

[Tombo]

clearing the mind should calm the mind, if the mind is not calm you can not exit your Body consciously (I think).
Your resistance to it is probably partly due to the fact that you do not know the state of a calm mind (with almost no thoughts) So you fear the unknown. And, your rational mind is not in charge any longer when you clear your mind. The rational part doesn't like that cause he wants to control you like he used to do, but the rational mind will also stop you from leaving your body and besides that you are not only your rational mind so explore your other parts as well.
Clearing the mind is actually a nice state with no danger.

[markulous]

I agree Tombo.

Most peoples conscious and logical portion of their brain are control freaks.  And from being around beginners that meditate a lot of them feel that it's silly or something.  It's just another thing that your logical brain is trying to take control.

When you meditate it corrects things that need to be corrected.  Almost like when you are asleep except since your awake more functions are awake and working so you can get more accomplished.  There is nothing to fear at all about this.  It will help you in SO many ways.

I know it was kind of a crappy explanation but I am tired, it's time for me to go to sleep.  

[Telos]

Leyla, I understand your worry and had it myself.

The rational mind is a support mechanism, not a control mechanism. It is very mighty and, like emotion, it causes disruption when you're feckless.

Clearing your mind really means clearing interference. Mind is far too huge and dynamic a thing to "clear." It's restoring the harmonious control of your sentient self. A psychologist might think of it as cleaning your ego.

You restore this order by using the devices of your mind responsibly - not by doing away with them. For example, people who aren't calm generally are not rational. A calm mind is obtained by using the rational mind with efficiency and simplicity.

I believe there's always a specific end goal to meditation (you can tell from my username). Meditating in order to "clear the mind" has only made me feel dumb as a rock. So, my advice is to think of what you would like to achieve through meditation, and search your mindscape for the thoughts you need to bring that goal into fruition.

Worry will never be one of those thoughts.

[karnautrahl]

I understood "clearing" the mind to be chiefly concerned with switching off that part of your mind that constantly verbalises and has a habit of dashing around talking to you. Rather than being free of internal thoughts entirely your mind becomes silent of verbal thoughts.

Just a passing thought

[Tayesin]

Hi All,
Since the mechanics of Fear has been discussed so well already in relation to this particular experience, I want to discuss the concept of having to shut the mind up in order to OBE or whatever.

When I started out with teachers, one had me following the old traditional ways of Zen to empty the mind and control the noise of it.  You can bet it was a long and difficult process to learn adequately.

A few more years passed and I started to have my own experiences out of body... BUT, not because I learned to shut off the mind's jabbering !

My experiences came because all I did was to FOCUS my Attention on what I wanted to do.  Intent is the Key.  Focus is the Tool.

I realized that we don't have to spend all that time and effort in shutting up the Jabberer in our head...  all we have to do is Focus that same mind on the task we choose.

So now I ask, " Why waste so many years and so much effort on training the mind to focus on shutting up the mind, when simply focusing our attention on what we Intend will do the same thing ?"

[Leyla]

I've been following the program laid out in Astral Dynamics. I enjoy the meditation and energy work, and the instant results. But the "thought suppression" he teaches I am resisting. I think I may be afraid of going into a state of "non being."

I exit body fairly regularly,  but want to be able to do it "at will." The times that I've done it, it wasn't achieved by "clearing my mind."

[Tombo]

But the "thought suppression" he teaches I am resisting. I think I may be afraid of going into a state of "non being."
"

So, you believe you are your thoughts then? I wouldn't count on that. There is always a small gap between two thoughts, do you stop "being" there?

[alexd]

I wouldn't really worry about it Leyla.
You can be, without thinking.
When you look at a beautiful sunset you do not think that "it is beautiful", you know it without thinking.
Being comes from awareness, and you can be aware without thinking.


Alex

[Banjoshee]

Wow, Tayesin, that's the first time I've ever heard anyone say what you said:

So now I ask, " Why waste so many years and so much effort on training the mind to focus on shutting up the mind, when simply focusing our attention on what we Intend will do the same thing ?"

And I just feel like jumping up and saying, Hurrah!

I've never been able to just sit and do emtpy mind meditation. I need to focus on something, the breath, a movement, something. Then no problems. I can focus on my intent. Yessiree, I can do that. But empty mind? Uh-uh.

[FreeChile]

I don't know about you, but some of the experiences I've had came in the midst of very intense and anxious moments--naturally as a result of fear.  In most cases there was no real focus and certainly no attempt to clear the mind.  In such cases, the system simply would take over after a significant level of anxiety and do its best to keep me safe. Eventually, and sometimes after the experience is achieved, relief and rest come possibly due to the realization that there was not much to it—if you manage to survive and remain sane, that is.

If clearing the mind really leads to anything, then how would we explain the spontaneous experiences that some people have.  Also, how would we explain experiences achieved through chanting and being "in-the-spirit" as some traditions claim.

It would help to know precisely what clearing the mind means.  What parts of the mind (as a concept) are we to clear?  If, the whole idea is simply to relax and let things happen, then "clearing the mind" is a misnomer and the instructions should simply say "relax and let things happen."

But if clearing the mind means that we should do away with pre-conceived notions and ideas, then that is a different thing, then again, the instructions should say that.

[laiana]

I would LOVE to still the constant yabber yabber of my mind, sometimes I drive myself crazy.  That is enough for me to learn to "still" the mind.  I don't see it as emptying, or clearing, I see it as "quietening".

It's like when you stop talking - you don't empty anything, you quieten.

[daidaluz]

I think the reason of calming the mind is to avoid activity of the conscious . You know that conscious mind has a rational and logical structure, so mental energy is always trapped into labyrinth-like patterns.  When you calm the mind  you enter into a different conscious state, you establish connection to the subconscious mind. You'll discover that in alpha state the chances to empower yourself are greater.

[Naiad780]

I've been following the program laid out in Astral Dynamics. I enjoy the meditation and energy work, and the instant results. But the "thought suppression" he teaches I am resisting. I think I may be afraid of going into a state of "non being."

I read once that a lot of Westerners are uncomfortable with the idea of nonbeing and emptiness, because to us it signifies that something is lacking, whereas other cultures don't have those connotations.  i dislike using the terms "nonbeing" or "empty mind" and such because I think that having a clear mind makes everything even more real and clear than it does in ordinary consciousness.  There's no way I can experience that wonderful, amazing state and consider it "emtpy" or "nonbeing."

Don't think of it as "nothing" or "nonbeing."  Try "perfect clarity" or something similar instead

[BDawgPHD]

no, westerners dont like it cuz they cant sit still...like me

usually when i try to meditate, i breathe deeply (and correctly) and focus on my breathing pattern.  not too intently, just enough to hear my own breath.  

relax all your muscles, then count softly in your head from 10 to 0, then from 9 to 0, and so on, relaxing even more every time you get to 0.  once you get to 0 for the final time, you should be relaxed and not thinking about much, which is what you want

your mind is like a bowl.  if you pour some water in a full bowl, it will overflow.  if you empty the bowl, you have room for more water.  

i heard that somewhere...lol

dont think of it as meditation so much as relaxing...





wow a lot of type for a n00b huh?     (i hate the term "n00b")  lol

[alexd]

Most people [Westerners] I have talked to are scared that by not thinking they will go into a state of non-being. It's quite common, I think.


Alex

[pod_3]

I think it was Spock, who said that nature abhors a vacuum. By what mechanism do you empty yourself to the point of going bye-bye and come back to find that something left the "answer" in you?

Honesty as to whether your approach is loving or hateful will eliminate all static. It applies to everything, mundane or spiritual. Your will would be utilized rather than getting in the way, and you would be filled up.

[Naiad780]

I think it was Spock, who said that nature abhors a vacuum. By what mechanism do you empty yourself to the point of going bye-bye and come back to find that something left the "answer" in you?

It's just that.  You're not actually emptying yourself and ceasing to exist temporarily (going bye-bye).  You're actually letting go of the chatter in your mind so that you are more aware to the world around you.  Have you ever taken a walk and been so wrapped up in little thoughts ("I have to call my mom today, when am I ever going to get the garage door fixed, that guy's outfit is really ugly") that you realize you barely remember a thing you saw on the entire walk?

Your response is the exact reason I dislike using the terms "empty mind" and "no-mind."  Most reasonable Westerners are going to say what you said because it sounds like disappearing or not existing.  When you explain what you're really talking about (e.g. being fully conscious of the world around you), then it makes sense to them.  

Sorry, I can't tell if you were being rhetorical or asking a genuine question.

[pod_3]

I am not being rhetorical.  The goal of some exercizes is to attune the mind to the Void.

[pharmakeia]

Research the use of Koans in the Zen tradition. Inspiration is the interuption and reorganization of habit. What is the ultimate realization really like? What is the word? Speak it!

heh

pharmakeia

Pod you have set us up the bomb