Sub-Navel = Base/Root Center?

[DarkCloud]

Okay, this has been confusing me.

It has come to my attention that the Sub-Navel and Root center are both generally stated to be located in the same place (below the navel , in between pubic line).

So, this leaves me to believe, since Robert Bruce uses Western Terminology in his works, could "Sub-Navel" just be another title for the Root/Base Dan tien?

If they aren't they same, this is all terribly confusing for me.

Please someone help me!!!

[Orygbus]

I believe the Sub-Navel is the Dan Tien, about 1.5-2 inches below the belly button....The root/Base is between the groin and the anus (the end of your coccyx bone)....When RB refers to Sub-navel, I think he is refering to the Dan Tien, not the base/root....

[DarkCloud]

Then either everything I've  read over the past years is either  a misconception, or I am still missing something.

I have alot of articles saved over from the past for years about the Root. I only ever heard of the Sub-Navel until recently.

But every article stated that the root was located 2 inches below your navel. I'm a martial artist too, and this is where my teachers tell me to draw energy from.

Combine that with all of the post dealing with that center on this very forum, so of the people here refered to it clearly as the Base/power center.

Oh, well, none the less, better see what other replies I get.

Thank you: runlola, GOTHIKA and Orygbus for your replies as well.

[Stookie]

DarkCloud - I think that the root chakra your talking about is actually at your taint, gooch, ABC, or whatever you want to call it.

The sub-navel is a few inches below the navel. I've never heard of this being or close to the root chakra.

[Novice]

I believe the Sub-Navel is the Dan Tien, about 1.5-2 inches below the belly button....The root/Base is between the groin and the anus (the end of your coccyx bone)....When RB refers to Sub-navel, I think he is refering to the Dan Tien, not the base/root....

This is my understanding as well.

Also, I have found it difficult to align chakras (Indian philosophy) and tan tiens (Chi Kung/Martial Arts philosophy). They usually have other names for them, but similar locations.

Most of the yoga/indian books I've read list the root/base chakra as being at the perineum (between anus and genital area). Some will list it as being at the coccyx/base of the tail bone. Most list the second chakra as being located at the coccyx/base of tailbone while the minority put it a few inches above that and close to the spine. My personal experience in working with these chakras is that the base/root is definately at the perineum and svadistana/sex/second chakra is back/inwards towards the spine. The remaining 5 major chakras are consistent in location across the works I've read and instructors I've had:

manipura/navel -- right at the belly button
anahata/heart -- center of chest bone
visuddha/throat -- base of throat (where esophogus enters under breast bone)
ajna/third eye -- between eyebrows
swahasara/crown -- top of head (soft spot on babies)

(I may have flubbed some of the indian spellings -- I apologize if I did)

Here are a few links on indian chakra systems that explain/show the locations I've described above:

http://www.sacredcenters.com/chakras.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra
http://www.kundaliniyoga.org/chakramain.html

My understanding of the chinese system is that the root/base chakra is equivalent to the Hui Yin (I'm pretty sure that's spelled correctly) and is at the perineum and is definately not the same as the lower dan/tan tien. The sub-navel storage area I equate to the lower tan tien as both locations are described the same and I perceive them as the same when practicing (1-2 inches below the navel). This is also not the same place as the second chakra called svadistana/sex chakra. This, from my understanding, is parallel with the lower tan tien/sub-navel area but it is further towards the spine. Whereas the sub-navel is closer to the front of the body.

My understanding of chinese theory/philosophy is what the others have explained as well as what you have stated. The lower dan/tan tien is a power center. Some sects refer to it as your heart as well. It is from here that you are to move in martial arts. All power comes from here. This is consistent with RB's description of calling it the main energy storage center. For him it is a place or reservoir which holds energy/chi/prana. It is from this reservoir that you draw when you need additional power/energy -- whether its for OBE/astral experiences, healing or martial arts. It is also the lowest reservoir in the human body to my knowledge, so it may also be referred to as the base/root. But it is called that in the context of large energy storage areas only.

This, however, is not the same thing as the base root chakra. They have two different purposes. The chakras are like energy wheels and the functioning of each chakra plays a significant part in a person's overall mental/psychic/physical/emotional/spiritual make-up, whether we're talking about a person's confidence, creativity, or communication skills. In yogic philosophy there is a chakra associated for each. Chakras, to my understanding, do not store energy at all. They use energy to keep the person healthy, functioning, etc. But they do not store energy to be used later or elsewhere. The chakras, if I undrstand correctly, actually pull energy from the centers as they need it.

I supposed a very rough analogy would be a car. The gas tank is where you store the gas, but its the engine that pulls the gas and uses it as needed to run the car. The engine itself can't store the gas and the engine could not run if the tank was empty.

Hope that helps!

[CFTraveler]

Thanks for the concise explanation about the differences between the root chakra and lower dan tien (hara?).  Coincidentally, RB answered the same question on the other forum and he described the root chakra system as sort of a 'cross' with the 'north & south' arm going from the genitals to the tailbone (coccyx) and the side arms going to the lower pelvic area (where it connects to the femur), the center being the perineum ('taint, as known by us wimminfolk), the root itself.

[DarkCloud]

 Its turns out, I was wrong after all!

I asked Robert Bruce himself about this (which is something I should have done in the first place) and he confirmed it for me.


So, thanks, I am happy to admit I was wrong on this.