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Cool breezes

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Tom

It sounds like you were distracted from your meditation by a random event. Whatever you were concentrating on for the object of your meditation, if it happens again you should return to your original object.

jilola

Thanks for the input, Tom.

I thought about that but since I'm not concentrating on an object as such (still mind for me is more like no-mind) and since the sensation is, at least as far as I can ascertain, unrelated to an external phenomenon I suspect it may have something to do with the actual meditation.

The sensation doesn't really distract me and a deep(ish) trance son follows. I've read about a similar sensation with regard to some meditational states somewhere but for the life of me I can find the reference.
A puzzle I think.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Tom

So every time a thought or object or perception arises it is a distraction from your meditation, because that would be an object and your meditation requires an absence of object? Even an awareness of space or of mind would be using an object. It is common to take an object and expand it to infinity and then drop the object, leaving only the space it had been in as the object. Then the awareness of the infinite space becomes an object. You deny all objects? What is left, then?

jilola

On the rare occasions all goes well nothing remains. And I do mean rare.

But I wouldn't call objects or thoughts a distraction. They are an essential reflection of me at the moments of their appearance and have meaning and value.
Also I have to retract my words somewhat and state that in the initial phases of my meditation session I do use the void as an object in your sense. I strive to reach the void and thus become it. Only in rare occasions do I get to the point of dropping even the void.

But the original question was related to the sensation as a possible consequence of the meditation. With so many different sensation srealted to the various meditational and trance states I was wondering would there be a universal (in that others have repeated the sensation) state that corresponds to what I experience. And what would the meaning, if any, of such a state be.

Your  brought up a nice conundrum though, in pointing out that any thought of even the intentional lack of thought, is an object of concentration. I'd assert that the object represented by a lack of object is intent itself. What's left when the intent is removed?

2cents & L&L
jouni

Tom

In the Six Yogas of Naropa, from Vajrayana Buddhism, there is a state of meditation which has no object at all and it is a result of the force of previous moments of efforts. Consciousness returns afterward.

jilola

Interesting. I'll search for references. Do you have a link or a book (preferably) that would be a good starting point for further investigation? I've tried to come up with an idea of vajrayana but the net, as far as I've been able to reach it, is lacking in anything detailed.

Although I don't feel a lack of consciousness, the state is more like, and I'm aware of the thinness of ice here, that there's only being, not being me nor being not-me. Just being. Consciousness is present but not interfering.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Tom

It sounds like you do have an object of meditation and the problem is that it is very difficult to describe the object. If you can intensify your awareness of the object so that it appears more clearly there might be an initial loss of some stability, but that stability will be easily regained.

jilola

Nothingness is how I'd describe the object, if really pressed. I fairly quickly go through a sequence that begins with being watchfull of physical bodily functions, such as breath and  warmth and quite rapidly (when all goes well) proceeding to being aware of no thought (not thinking about not thinking, but rather being aware of nothing) and then losing active awareness of even that while still, well, being aware. It's a state that I find extremely difficult to describe in words. It just is, I think.

I've noticed the fluctuation in stability though. Some time ago, when I first reached the emptiness or void state I got jolted out of the meditation instantly. I've been able to work my way back somewhat but not quite to the initial degree yet. Funny how any step forward has always to be taken at least twice. Backward steps take care of themselves quite easily.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Tom

There is a meditation I just remembered. Imagine that you are in a well, some distance from the top and an unknown distance to the bottom. You are holding yourself up by pressing against the sides. It is too dark to even see your hands and feet. Got it? Then let go. If you are lucky you will eventually hit bottom. It has to be very vivid, though, before you let go that it is into a very deep well.

jilola

I'll have to try that.
It sounds like an experience similar to what I feel when I let go of awareness of physical. Like suddenly falling into myself, not quite falling down but more like imploding.
But are you suppposed to hit the bottom? Or find that there si no bottom  or that there's no reason to fall? What should be acccomplished by the meditation?

2cents & L&L
jouni

goingslow

I know the sensation you're talking about.  Its as if theres a very light breeze against your face.. I experience that along with the thrumming/pulsing sensations when my brow chakra becomes active.  

One interesting thing I've had happen is I'll turn over on my pillow so im laying on my side.  When i do this i can actually hear a fan type interference against my pillow.  Im sure no one around me can hear it but its actually pretty amazing.

Tom

Trying to hit bottom doesn't help, and yet, it does happen. It is an exercise in letting go.

jilola

Yep. That may well be what I mean sans the thrumming and pulsing and the breeze is on the top of the head. BUt what you describ sounds similar to a degree. No interference nor sounds for me save the normal crap before a cozy little trance [8D]

The way I see the sensation is that it's a trasitional phemenon and in itself not meaningful. It's just that I've noticed it more recently.

Tom: I breezed (pun, pain, atonement) the links you PM'd me as well as did a  couple of net trawls. I'll have to read them with more clarity as it's a bit late and I'm bit tipsy([xx(]). I'll get backl t you soonish.

2cents & L&L
jouni


Tom

The chills have come to me, too. Not even blankets, the hottest part of summer, heavy clothing, and a meditation designed to cause heat all at the same time resulted in intense cold. Fortunately it passed.

That's right, it is later there than here.

jilola

What so you guys make of this:

When meditating in a stil mind state I experience a cool (as in refrigerator cool) breeze over the top of my head and then crossing over to my forehead and some ways down my face.
I've played with this and found that it's not likely to be random drafts as the it happens regardless of the location in my apartment.
Since it happens around the crown and brow chakra I'm iinterpreting it as some phenomenon related to the energy body and the two chakras.

Anyone got a clue?

2cents & L&L
jouni