for those who did it either partially or the full medusa effect? I'm curios because I really wanna reach enlightenment and I don't want to return in this physical reality. I heard that in order to stop the process of reincarnation one must raise their kundalini. Pleeeaase share it here.... including the details of what to eat, kinds of meditations and counter measures to avoid the troubles of raising kundalini or how to raise kundalini safely
There's no quick fix for this. Its just a natural part of spiritual expansion. If self-knowledge is your path, kundalini will rise.
google kundalini yoga, I'm not saying it works as I've never done it, just that aside from personalreality's answer if you're still looking for a different one that's probably be the safest to give you. something like this I guess http://www.dlshq.org/download/kundalini.htm#_VPID_16 (http://www.dlshq.org/download/kundalini.htm#_VPID_16)
Quotefor those who did it either partially or the full medusa effect? I'm curios because I really wanna reach enlightenment and I don't want to return in this physical reality. I heard that in order to stop the process of reincarnation one must raise their kundalini. Pleeeaase share it here.... including the details of what to eat, kinds of meditations and counter measures to avoid the troubles of raising kundalini or how to raise kundalini safely
The inquiry is sincere, and worthy of as genuine a response as possible.
I would begin by saying I did not raise the Kundalini. I am not sure anything I could have done from the physical format would have ever directly influenced Her ascent. I was just a person who felt certain things here in this life to be a bit off. As a young person, and young adult I couldn't quite put my finger on it. There was just always this lingering sense that things were not quite right, which led me into being somewhat reclusive as I pondered this feeling through.
The spiritual disciplines I took on as I moved through my life I adopted because they made sense. There was no other reason. There were things I did not understand about myself in relation to this world and these practices highlighted what I felt to know, keeping this always at the front of my mind and at the front of my life. Savasana (dead man's pose) came to me first, then Trataka (conscious gazing), Pranayama (the breathing), then Brahmacarya (in the practical sense, sexual abstinence). I was drawn toward Siva, the masculine disciplines of the jnani. Awareness practices such as Atma Vichara, and teachers such as Sri Ramana Maharshi.
Kundalini was not something I ever knew about. I had of course heard of it but my interests did not take me in this direction, or toward texts and practices that would bring it forth. The Divine Feminine (experience) did not interest me, Siva (consciousness) interested me. So, what a surprise, when in January of last year, unbeknownst to me She began rising. My central nervous system went into shock. I had no idea what was happening. But finding out became a matter of what felt to me to be life or death. When I did begin figuring it out, what became painfully clear was that the course of my life, my deepests interests and practices were ALL to help prepare me mind and body for
this..
We can prepare ourselves to receive Her, but She will come as She will, entice Her as we may.
There is much you can do to help prepare.
[this for now]
Quote from: omcasey on May 08, 2010, 17:15:39
The spiritual disciplines I took on as I moved through my life I adopted because they made sense. There was no other reason. There were things I did not understand about myself in relation to this world and these practices highlighted what I felt to know, keeping this always at the front of my mind and at the front of my life. Savasana (dead man's pose) came to me first, then Trataka (conscious gazing), Pranayama (the breathing), then Brahmacarya (in the practical sense, sexual abstinence). I was drawn toward Siva, the masculine disciplines of the jnani. Awareness practices such as Atma Vichara, and teachers such as Sri Ramana Maharshi.
thanx for the sincere post there omneycasey, but can you teach me how you actually do this savasana, trataka, pranayama?
Quote from: soli on May 08, 2010, 14:51:06
google kundalini yoga, I'm not saying it works as I've never done it, just that aside from personalreality's answer if you're still looking for a different one that's probably be the safest to give you. something like this I guess http://www.dlshq.org/download/kundalini.htm#_VPID_16 (http://www.dlshq.org/download/kundalini.htm#_VPID_16)
Thanx for this link I will read it soon :-D
A few comments- I agree with personalreality in that Kundalini is a side effect of consciousness expansion- and I do think that a lot of methods can be used to help you on the path- however, I also believe that mechanical disciplines (such as various energy practices and yogas, including Kundalini yoga, which I practice, btw, pranayamas , etc.) are helpful, but not because they cause it to rise- I think they help in preparing you for when it does rise, and it will when it's ready to.
That's why so many different things are called for: Including but not specifically any of them: Meditation, projection practice, energy work (all the possibilities are helpful) K yoga for the physical 'readiness', and whatever was mentioned that I missed. All serve different functions, all developing different aspects of your being for this awakening-transformation/transmutation to happen.
Quote from: personalreality on May 08, 2010, 10:45:58
There's no quick fix for this. Its just a natural part of spiritual expansion. If self-knowledge is your path, kundalini will rise.
No.
You have to do something specific to raise Kundalini. For now the 100th time I say it. Kundalini is not new-age garbage that everybody can experience just sitting cross-ledged.
And anyway this is true of every experience, spiritual or not. You have do to something specific to obtain a specific experience. With Kundalini this is yet more true because you awake a specific current. So, Kundalini and self-knowledge are not "mutuals" in the sense that while Kundalini can bring self-knowledge, self-knowledge doesn't bring Kundalini by itself.
Quote from: CFTraveler on May 09, 2010, 19:08:25
A few comments- I agree with personalreality in that Kundalini is a side effect of consciousness expansion- and I do think that a lot of methods can be used to help you on the path- however, I also believe that mechanical disciplines (such as various energy practices and yogas, including Kundalini yoga, which I practice, btw, pranayamas , etc.) are helpful, but not because they cause it to rise- I think they help in preparing you for when it does rise, and it will when it's ready to.
No.
Kundalini Yoga is a path that mixes Raja Yoga with some forms of Hatha-Yoga. Pranayama is Hatha Yoga. In any case some part of this discourse is correct in the sense that yoga paths brings you to the knowledge required to raise Kundalini, however after you must do something specific.
Yogas makes you learn Samadhi that it is required to awake the serpent. After you have to use specific disciplines to awake the same. It doesn't happen by itself. So, absolutely not: Kundalini is NOT a side effect of consciousness expansion, AT ALL. It is a specific current having to do with sexual energy, very specific, very particular.
I disagree, kundalini is new age garbage, and gives you kundalini psychosis with waking hallucinations. That or it just makes you really arrogant and act like a know-it-all when we all know you know nothing.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on August 31, 2010, 19:16:28
I disagree, kundalini is new age garbage, and gives you kundalini psychosis with waking hallucinations. That or it just makes you really arrogant and act like a know-it-all when we all know you know nothing.
So far, from what I've seen, I can't argue with that sentiment, Capt. :)
Quote from: Capt. Picard on August 31, 2010, 19:16:28
I disagree, kundalini is new age garbage, and gives you kundalini psychosis with waking hallucinations. That or it just makes you really arrogant and act like a know-it-all when we all know you know nothing.
And I suppose you know all this from personal experience, isn't it? Grow a bit of courage for one time in your life and say the truth to yourself. You don't know ABSOLUTELY nothing of what I'm speaking about (i.e. Kundalini), and anyway about the rest.
One that really thinks that sleep paralysis (in the real term of the word) is needed to exit the body already shows how much he knows of what he is talking about from first-hand knowledge. Stop reading Lucidology 101 and do something serious. And above all else grow-up a bit. If you don't like me there's no problem, but do you think this gives you the rigth of talking of what you don't clearly know as if you are some sort of expert?
And yes, I am arrogant with those as you that speak of things they don't know from personal experience and suppose they already know everything. If this makes me a know-all then so mote it be.
As for not knowing of what I talk about everyone can naturally have their opinion on this. Until however you can show with practical examples why is that so (a thing you obvsiouly aren't able to do) then it will always just remain opinion, don't you think?
Quote from: Xanth on August 31, 2010, 19:21:35
So far, from what I've seen, I can't argue with that sentiment, Capt. :)
You are becoming more and more emotional as the time passes, Xanth, how comes? Am I disturbing your sense of leadership?
Quote from: Capt. Picard on August 31, 2010, 19:16:28
I disagree, kundalini is new age garbage, and gives you kundalini psychosis with waking hallucinations. That or it just makes you really arrogant and act like a know-it-all when we all know you know nothing.
I'm genuinly surprised that someone who has an interest in the topics discussed on a forum like this would put down people's experiences in such a way.
You're giving of some bad vibes mate.
Quote from: Selea on September 01, 2010, 05:22:33
You are becoming more and more emotional as the time passes, Xanth, how comes? Am I disturbing your sense of leadership?
Please don't push
your clearly unstable emotional state onto me please.
Thanks a bunch. ;)
Quote from: blis on September 01, 2010, 05:45:55
I'm genuinly surprised that someone who has an interest in the topics discussed on a forum like this would put down people's experiences in such a way.
You're giving of some bad vibes mate.
I'm actually with the Capt. here. I'm really starting to believe that Kundalini is nothing more than a superiority complex.
It's just a new age metaphysical reason for people to feel superior over others. Nothing more.
I honestly don't understand why people get so defensive when Selea posts... it's like the information is damaging to their current practices and belief system or something. Much of what she's says I've read somewhere at some point - it's not like she's making it up off the top of her head.
If you don't like or agree with Kundalini and what it is, then ignore the thread, but there are people that do and practice it and could use the help. If you have a counter argument for incorrect information she's giving, go for it and I'm sure Selea will respond back respectfully. No one ever does. Tell her she doesn't know what she's talking about without a counterpoint and you probably won't get much respect. Understandably.
For future reference too...
Selea, are you a guy or a girl?
Everyone is referring to you as a "her"... but I facebook-searched your email address to confirm, and it comes back with "him" and such.
Quote from: Xanth on September 01, 2010, 09:14:05
I'm actually with the Capt. here. I'm really starting to believe that Kundalini is nothing more than a superiority complex.
It's just a new age metaphysical reason for people to feel superior over others. Nothing more.
I'm tempted to ask why you think that but I dont want to prompt something that might offend others.
I've no experience of kundalini so I cant speak with any knowledge of its existence but I tend to consider vedic knowledge rather credible.
I'm not speaking for your case as I dont know you but with myself I often find that when I feel people are feeling superior its actually just my own inferiorities that are making me feel that way. Not always of course because some people do just have superiority complexes but if its getting to me then thats usually a pretty good sign that I should look inwards. Again I'm not accusing you of anything and dont mean any insult, its just an insight I've made about myself that may/may not apply to others.
Quote from: blis on September 01, 2010, 14:27:54
vedic knowledge
I don't mean to derail this... but I'm just curious what that means. :)
Stuff from the Vedas. I havent checked but I assumed thats where the kundalini stuff comes from. I thought all the old indian stuff came from the Vedas. I read some of the srimad bhagavatam years ago and found alot of wisdom in it. It got me interested and I started looking into the upanishads and other stuff. I've had a lot of respect for vedic knowledge since then. I even started trying to teach myself to read sanskrit before I got sent to prison. It was super hard though so I dont intend to take it up again.
You have all this experience with Kundalini, so what? How do you know what youre inducing has any significance at all? Look up Kundalini psychosis, real psychiatric disorder. If growing up means conforming to your ridiculous fanaticism, I'll stay young. Anyways, just give me one example of the real benefits of inducing kundalini that normal safe meditation dosent give you. As for youre poorly thought out jab at "sleep paralysis" we've already argued this and what I call paralysis others call trance. And I dont need it, I can also lucid dream or project without being aware of the paralysis, but it is OBVIOUSLY there otherwise you act out the same motions as you are doing in your projection, not unlike sleep walking. Anyways, I cant wait to hear it, prove that kundalini experience is significant and is beneficial. LOL, Selea you are gonna have so much trouble with trolls who dont actually care about your 10 paragraph responses, which by the way have yet to present anything intelligent and equate to you whining and throwing a fit over people disagreeing with your stupid statements.
Well I looked up kundalini psychosis and it succeeded in scaring me off learning kundalini yoga from a book. So I thank you for that. I'm definitely leaving it alone until I can get a teacher.
Cant we all get along though and have a respectful adult discussion about our different viewpoints? If you post in anger/scorn all you get back is the same. No one wins.
I think LSD is pretty closely related to kundalini
Quote
I honestly don't understand why people get so defensive when Selea posts...
Goodness, seriously?
Before even going into anything specifically said, the communication style is highly confrontational.
I am not even sure I can state it as a communication style as there seems very little attempt to communicate (two-way) at all, just and endless barrage of oppositional statements. Even from the outside of the conversation looking in, it is quite off-putting. CFT shows the only true course, in not encouraging the continuance of such a course. Real communication can be so beautiful, like a finely played chess game, or a dance- while this is often more like a food fight. I am not shy about sharing my Kundalini experience, but this is not a place where I feel I even can due to all this.
Quote from: Xanth on September 01, 2010, 09:14:05
Please don't push your clearly unstable emotional state onto me please.
Thanks a bunch. ;)
Sorry, in my juvenile interpretation I thought you were feeding the troll just to have something to say against me. My fault. How can I be so idiot?
Apart this, sorry but I couldn't avoid it, simply because
"When you reconcile with authority you become yourself an authority" - Jim Morrison.
Quote from: Xanth on September 01, 2010, 09:14:05
I'm actually with the Capt. here. I'm really starting to believe that Kundalini is nothing more than a superiority complex.
It's just a new age metaphysical reason for people to feel superior over others. Nothing more.
You see what bothers me about you is not that you have an opinion, just the contrary. You don't have one. You assume two weights and two measures depending on what it is being talked about, and this, I must tell you, it is really silly and you must acknowledge it.
When you talk about things you like, as Frank and Monroe Focuses then you use common grounds, structures of experiences and terms of paragon. You don't say that the RTZ is the same as Focus 4, or that Focus 2 can mean whatever one wants and can be any other Focus depending on who experiences the same, or anything as that. If I would reply to someone telling that he was in the RTZ while he obviously wasn't and I will say that there you will have nothing to object to it. You wouldn't say I'm imposing "belief structures" on others.
When instead you talk of what you think is "bogus" or you don't care for, then there MUST be no common grounds, no structures, no terms of paragon. Everything is only subjective and doesn't mean anything at all and can be everything at the same time. So, when I say to someone that Kundalini is not what they think you have to object saying that I just impose my "belief structures" to others.
I act as a superior towards you just because you change your point of view depending on the occasion. This in turns makes me not take seriously what you tell because it is biased and has not foundament.
Then, apart this, talking of things you haven't not experienced yourself as if you know what is being talked about is pretentious and do you think I have to abide to what you say?
Quote from: Xanth on September 01, 2010, 12:00:30
For future reference too...
Selea, are you a guy or a girl?
Everyone is referring to you as a "her"... but I facebook-searched your email address to confirm, and it comes back with "him" and such.
I am a girl (well, I would like to... I'm more a woman ;-)). I use to put I'm a male in my facebook address (that I don't either use, I just used once to contac someone) because in some places some people act strangely when behaving with girls. ;-)
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 01, 2010, 16:53:46
You have all this experience with Kundalini, so what? How do you know what youre inducing has any significance at all?
Usually if someone has experience on a thing and someone doesn't, the one that doesn't have any at last should have the good will of not acting as a know-all in the argument.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 01, 2010, 16:53:46
Look up Kundalini psychosis, real psychiatric disorder.
Everything can bring up psychiatric disorder, and, for example, how you behave it is a little warning for you. You are too emotional and certain practices can bring you just the psychosis you talk about in your help.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 01, 2010, 16:53:46
If growing up means conforming to your ridiculous fanaticism, I'll stay young.
So, let me guess. I am a fanatic because I experienced something and I share this experience. You are not because you talk of things you know nothing about as if you are an expert and in so doing you bring forth assumptions that you cannot either prove yourself. Omg, I must be wrong on the meaning of the word.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 01, 2010, 16:53:46
Anyways, just give me one example of the real benefits of inducing kundalini that normal safe meditation dosent give you.
Awakening a certain current that enables you to do things you cannot do with normal meditation. Apart this, some effects that are irreproducible in other ways.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 01, 2010, 16:53:46
As for youre poorly thought out jab at "sleep paralysis" we've already argued this and what I call paralysis others call trance. And I dont need it, I can also lucid dream or project without being aware of the paralysis, but it is OBVIOUSLY there otherwise you act out the same motions as you are doing in your projection, not unlike sleep walking.
Dreams and Sleep paralysis can coincide (and usually they does) but are not mutual. One can exists without the other. A typical example is Sonnambulism. If it was as you said and sleep paralysis brought dreams than sonnambulims would not exist. You think they are mutual only because you don't know how to discern when one or the other happens.
Try this. Stay for 1 and half/2 hours perfectly still. You need to do nothing specific. You will see your body will go to "sleep", i.e. it will be in what is better called "automatic rigidity", e.g. sleep paralysis. Would this mean you will have an OBE? Absolutely not. You will have to do something to start dreaming. Same happens if you conquer an Asana, much faster. Naturally when the body doesn't give signals to the brain is easier to shift attention, but the two things are not mutual.
You can see this also if you practice lucid dreaming in the morning. REM cycles and sleep paralysis are tied to coincide, but as the time to enter the twos diminish, there are some incongruences. For example you can enter a lucid dream while being in the physical body and NOT have sleep paralysis. After a while SP will come and you will "jump" automatically in the dream.
These naturally are things that you can reproduce. If you were able to start an OBE willingly you will already know this by yourself without me telling you. You don't absolutely need to bring sleep paralysis before being able to dream. As I told you and you seem to don't want to hear is that the term OBE includes a lot of experiences. Not all of them include shifting awareness fully in the "other" or "dream" body.
Then if you call "Sleep Paralysis" trance I suggest you to use another term, because trance is NOT sleep paralysis.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 01, 2010, 16:53:46
Anyways, I cant wait to hear it, prove that kundalini experience is significant and is beneficial.
I already told you. If then for beneficial you talk about dating the girl you like so much, then not, I'm sorry, for you there are none, I guess.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 01, 2010, 16:53:46
LOL, Selea you are gonna have so much trouble with trolls who dont actually care about your 10 paragraph responses
So you define yourself a troll. Good to know.
Quote from: omcasey on September 01, 2010, 23:05:09
Goodness, seriously?
Before even going into anything specifically said, the communication style is highly confrontational.
I am not even sure I can state it as a communication style as there seems very little attempt to communicate (two-way) at all, just and endless barrage of oppositional statements. Even from the outside of the conversation looking in, it is quite off-putting. CFT shows the only true course, in not encouraging the continuance of such a course. Real communication can be so beautiful, like a finely played chess game, or a dance- while this is often more like a food fight. I am not shy about sharing my Kundalini experience, but this is not a place where I feel I even can due to all this.
Excuse me but what there's is of no communication in my style? I am just direct. What would be the pourpose of telling you: "maybe you exchange Kundalini for something else, in my opinion, but maybe I'm incorrect so do what you want"? None.
Face it, you don't like somebody telling you that something you do can be incorrect or you can exchange something for something else. That's the ONLY problem.
If with an argument you can prove that I'm incorrect I will admit that without problems. However please don't put forward this "I cannot handle this type of communication" because it's only a silly lie to yourself.
The truth is that you have nothing to say contradicting what I mention, you don't either know if it is true or not (and you seem to neither care) but it MUST be wrong because you don't like to hear it. That's the only problem, isn't it?
I've seen you specifically for example many times talking of Kundalini and other related things and, sincerely, you have no clue of what you talk about. I'm sorry to say this (I'm direct but not so much) and you can feel offended by it if you want, but consider this: what's worse? That my words can indeed offend you or that maybe I can be right and you do things in a wrong way? Think about it, don't be emotional, then reply. Thanks.
Quote from: blis on September 01, 2010, 17:51:55
Well I looked up kundalini psychosis and it succeeded in scaring me off learning kundalini yoga from a book. So I thank you for that. I'm definitely leaving it alone until I can get a teacher.
Cant we all get along though and have a respectful adult discussion about our different viewpoints? If you post in anger/scorn all you get back is the same. No one wins.
Kundalini can, and is, indeed dangerous if you *can* awake her without proper preparation. While this is very rare, it can happen in some predisposed individuals. In this case, however, if there's nobody to bring her down you will simply die.
Psychosis and the likes happens only when people do a thing exchanging it for another. In this case, yes, it is common. The other time this can happen with Kundalini is if someone awakes her without you being equilibrated by Samadhi. But this is even more difficult to happen.
Other psychosis are related to sexual currents, but not properly to kundalini. One example is the rising of the same current used in kundalini in the muladhara as it is done in Prayoga.
Quote from: Selea on September 02, 2010, 05:57:11
Excuse me but what there's is of no communication in my style? I am just direct. What would be the pourpose of telling you: "maybe you exchange Kundalini for something else, in my opinion, but maybe I'm incorrect so do what you want"? None.
Face it, you don't like somebody telling you that something you do can be incorrect or you can exchange something for something else. That's the ONLY problem.
If with an argument you can prove that I'm incorrect I will admit that without problems. However please don't put forward this "I cannot handle this type of communication" because it's only a silly lie to yourself.
The truth is that you have nothing to say contradicting what I mention, you don't either know if it is true or not (and you seem to neither care) but it MUST be wrong because you don't like to hear it. That's the only problem, isn't it?
I've seen you specifically for example many times talking of Kundalini and other related things and, sincerely, you have no clue of what you talk about. I'm sorry to say this (I'm direct but not so much) and you can feel offended by it if you want, but consider this: what's worse? That my words can indeed offend you or that maybe I can be right and you do things in a wrong way? Think about it, don't be emotional, then reply. Thanks.
Selea,
Thank you for your time and attention, friend, I send you love..
I would never dream of setting myself against you in argument and debate, you are very right about this not being the way I enjoy experiencing any potential relationship with you. What I share with those who are open is my perception of what I am currently experiencing (sometimes as it relates to kundalini). I draw no hard, fixed conclusions about any of it. I leave the event entirely open, flowing, as all life is. The idea of being right or wrong does not enter my mind. What I am experiencing exists with no capacity for this, for it is not a static thing. It is living and breathing, supple and rhythmic- changing in every moment. I relay this all wholeheartedly, as best I can. People know where to find me if they wish to speak.
Selea, if you want to go here... so be it.
People try to engage you in discussion. *I* have tried to engage you in discussion. But the general response that people get from you sickens me. You laugh at them, Selea. You laugh and then say "you just don't know what you're talking about"... it always comes back to that for you. You disagree with someone and they're just flat out wrong to you or they haven't bothered to read you correct... excuse after excuse. The thought has probably never crossed your mind that perhaps YOU are the problem. Not the people responding to you.
The few tidbits of good information you do provide, simply get lost in the sea of superiority you reflect in your posts.
I don't know what part of the world you come from, but if you are the standard for how they act there... you can rest assured that I'll never visit it.
Stookie wonders "why people get so defensive when Selea posts"... I don't see anyone getting defensive. I see them getting frustrated due to your bigotry. All of your "supposed" training aside, they forgot to teach you one thing... manners.
I'm sorry Selea, but (and in a bit of an ironic statement) you just don't get it... and I doubt you ever will.
Quote from: Selea on September 02, 2010, 05:39:19
I am a girl (well, I would like to... I'm more a woman ;-)). I use to put I'm a male in my facebook address (that I don't either use, I just used once to contac someone) because in some places some people act strangely when behaving with girls. ;-)
Silly me, I'd call that lying. Thank you for making it clear that you are person that will manipulate certain things. I think I almost have you figured out.
Stookie will and has always found the positive in people, that's what makes him, well.. Him. And he does not have a problem with people not agreeing with him. :-)
I've studied much occult literature and it's not the first time I've seen this stuff, and for me, it's welcome to have it properly explained by someone who knows it. We need experienced people around here - the difference is it's more in an occult tradition than the more modern OBE authors/exercises we normally discuss on this forum.
Yes, Selea is very direct in her approach, but I don't need a pat on the back or an ego-boost or a please & thank you - I'm hungry for knowledge. If I don't agree with something I don't understand and don't have a counterpoint for, I just leave it be.
I haven't seen any AUP rules broken.
people are entitled to disagree
i however do agree with most of what Selea has said
i cant see what the problem is but i do believe its your problem
i think a few of the posters need to grow up abit and stop being so dramatic
its ridiculous
:NoY:
Noy,
Based on your experience with Kundalini, what point(s) in particular are you in alignment with Selea on?- in regard to the original topic of this thread.. Perhaps we can swing this thing back onto the road. The only thing I see myself as having done to get the experience I am surfing now, is to park my board in front of an incoming wave. The wave is now doing the rest. My sole responsibility is to freak out as less as possible. And of course enjoy the ride.
she is obviously being bullied over many threads simply because she has an alternate
opinion
and i dont think she is in the wrong i think the bully is
:NoY:
Quote from: NoY on September 02, 2010, 14:18:30
she is obviously being bullied over many threads simply because she has an alternate
opinion
and i dont think she is in the wrong i think the bully is
:NoY:
I might have read omcasey's post wrong, but I don't believe that was the question. Please correct me if I'm wrong though. :)
I believe omcasey was asking which points of Seleas do you feel you're in alignment with.
I'm curious as well. :)
You are a fanatic because you do what we are doing to you, all the time to everyone else. If two people claim to have experienced kundalini, you will discredit them and tell them they are flat out wrong. From an outside perspective, this makes you appear very bigoted. How I behave is signs of mental illness? Your extreme fanaticism and verbal agressiveness combined with the fact that you practice kundalini, known to cause mental illness (unlike breathing, eating, reading and "anything") would seem to suggest that it is you who possesses the unstable mind state.
"Awakening a certain current that enables you to do things you cannot do with normal meditation. Apart this, some effects that are irreproducible in other ways."
Thanks for proving me right with the ever so informative post about the benefits of kundalini. Considering you are an expert with lots of experience, you would think you would have a better answer than this...
"Dreams and Sleep paralysis can coincide (and usually they does) but are not mutual. One can exists without the other. A typical example is Sonnambulism. If it was as you said and sleep paralysis brought dreams than sonnambulims would not exist. You think they are mutual only because you don't know how to discern when one or the other happens."
You are denying very, very basic facts regarding sleep. There is a specific chemical released when the body falls asleep, that paralyzes it so you dont act out your motions in the dream. Are you suggesting that you astral project and walk around in the real world carrying on your normal life? Sounds like kundalini psychosis. As for the terminology, I realize the differences, I just call trance and SP, SP because to me personally (here we go deny what I have experienced myself :roll: ) I dont notice a big difference and I can project just as easily whether I induce trance from a councious state, or wake up in it.
"Try this. Stay for 1 and half/2 hours perfectly still. You need to do nothing specific. You will see your body will go to "sleep", i.e. it will be in what is better called "automatic rigidity", e.g. sleep paralysis. Would this mean you will have an OBE? Absolutely not. You will have to do something to start dreaming. Same happens if you conquer an Asana, much faster. Naturally when the body doesn't give signals to the brain is easier to shift attention, but the two things are not mutual."
And... what about councious projection? What do I do to "start dreaming" when I exit the body immediatly after entering paralysis? Not sure what youre trying to say here but phasing into the astral or counciously projecting outwards are both very easy to accomplish from the "trance" state.
"I already told you. If then for beneficial you talk about dating the girl you like so much, then not, I'm sorry, for you there are none, I guess."
What are you trying to get at? This is completly irrelevant and sadly your intuition has failed you once again. You are a grown woman? Shocking, I think most people here can agree that we assumed your were quite young and immature.
"So you define yourself a troll. Good to know."
You are looking from implications in places where there were none. I was simply pointing out that a troll could take advantage of you very easily, as you are clearly not very perceptive.
I have to ask questions:
The internet (in general) and this website (in specific) are places that curious, motivated people go to earnestly find the truth and put it to action in their lives. If there are misunderstandings, why fight about them? If there are disagreements, why not discuss them? If you are in a tribe of similarly motivated people, why not brainstorm and work together to solve these problems? If the truth is hidden, how will in-fighting help you to uncover it?
..................
we definitely should question new age mumbo jumbo; but that does not mean that we should dismiss it out of hand. for instance; many hunters come back empty handed but that doesn't mean that wild animals don't exist. in fact, the worse they are at hunting, the more they talk (and speculate) about the elusive game animals and the more they imitate successful hunters.
see my point? The New Age Movement is predominately populated by unsuccessful seekers - hence the parroting of popular ideas, and the confusion.
so why fight about it? we have the blind leading the blind already; now the blind fighting with the blind?
There are people whom seem to have exhibited symptoms kundalini literature traditionally mentions, without any history of meditation or esoteric practice.
People Like El Collie suffered their entire lives from these symptoms, with severe gastric and nerve troubles beside. She also related, like many others, that her body would be directed to take specific poses.
There are also the writings of Gopi Krishna relating his similar life-long experiences.
I don't have a problem with people saying that Kundalini has been trumped up, and is billed as a metaphysical cureall, since it seems to bring more suffering than anything, but it is clear, at least to me, that people, especially those with meditative practices, have been experiencing a phenomenon of physiological changes, regardless of what you want to think about the phenomenon.
Stillwater,
Thank you for bringing up El Collie, thank God for her- had she not taken the time to write out her experience(s) and through whatever means gotten them online I would have been lost. Kundalini literature is often written/phrased in such an esoteric way as to not be entirely clear in the practical sense. I would have had no idea what was happening with me if not for El Collie, what I was experiencing was EXACT to her relays and it was such a relief, beyond anything I can say to have found someone (else) who was experiencing this.
For those unfamiliar with El, this is a website in dedication to her--
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org/ (http://www.kundalini-gateway.org/)
She wrote many great articles (and I think books), the most known being "Branded by the Spirit"--
http://omtalks.yuku.com/topic/610/t/Branded-by-the-Spirt-El-Collie.html (http://omtalks.yuku.com/topic/610/t/Branded-by-the-Spirt-El-Collie.html)
Also, "Breakdown or Breakthrough"
http://omtalks.yuku.com/topic/612/t/Breakdown-or-Breakthrough-by-El-Collie.html (http://omtalks.yuku.com/topic/612/t/Breakdown-or-Breakthrough-by-El-Collie.html)
If interested, you can find many of her articles and more in the Kundalini forum on my talkboard:
http://omtalks.yuku.com/forums/84/t/Kundalini-Shakti.html (http://omtalks.yuku.com/forums/84/t/Kundalini-Shakti.html)
Quote from: Xanth on September 02, 2010, 09:20:56
Selea, if you want to go here... so be it.
People try to engage you in discussion. *I* have tried to engage you in discussion. But the general response that people get from you sickens me. You laugh at them, Selea. You laugh and then say "you just don't know what you're talking about"... it always comes back to that for you. You disagree with someone and they're just flat out wrong to you or they haven't bothered to read you correct... excuse after excuse. The thought has probably never crossed your mind that perhaps YOU are the problem. Not the people responding to you.
No, I'm sorry but this is how YOU see it. The problem is only that you don't like someone telling you are wrong. This disturbs you in a way that reveals much more of you than anything else.
If I would say it is my opinion I'm sure nothing of this will happen. Do you know why? Because in this case the option that there's still a small window open for you to be right is still there. Instead if one directly say you are wrong it is all another thing.
I already said this to you but I repeat: in practical things one person is right, the other wrong. There are no ways outside of this. Degrees apply only when staying on the general, but when going to the specific this is the way things works, in EVERYTHING of a practial origin. Then there are terms that are open to generalizations and those that are stricter, and as I said to you Kundalini is VERY strict.
Naturally in normal life and for what concerns your knowledge you agree (just because you show it all the time either in your "indirect" way), it is just too difficult to admit it.
Then I repeat this to you: you always disagree but you never explain why or what specifically (with examples, PRACTICAL) you disagree upon. That way it is easy I know. Throw a sentence that takes the argument from a wide angle and you always win. However the question remains open, and this is not good, either for you and for others that would like to learn.
Quote from: Xanth on September 02, 2010, 09:20:56
The few tidbits of good information you do provide, simply get lost in the sea of superiority you reflect in your posts.
I don't know what part of the world you come from, but if you are the standard for how they act there... you can rest assured that I'll never visit it.
I come from the world where hypocrisy doesn't exist. I am not offended if someone says I'm wrong in something I'm not sure about. Sure I don't take it for granted, but I neither react as a schoolgirl having lost her preferred toy. I'm much more concerned that, indeed, I can be, in fact, wrong.
Quote from: Xanth on September 02, 2010, 09:20:56
Stookie wonders "why people get so defensive when Selea posts"... I don't see anyone getting defensive. I see them getting frustrated due to your bigotry. All of your "supposed" training aside, they forgot to teach you one thing... manners.
Manners are pretty but all in all useless when talking about these things. We are not here to take tea and talk about the weather. What counts are only arguments.
And then, for one time, I would like someone of you reacting to my posts the way it should be. Stating why for you what you do is right and you suppose that I'm telling you idiocies. Then going to the end of the same, and reflect upon it, is this that difficult to do?
Quote from: Xanth on September 02, 2010, 09:20:56
I'm sorry Selea, but (and in a bit of an ironic statement) you just don't get it... and I doubt you ever will.
Yes, you get it and I don't, as always.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 02, 2010, 19:02:18
You are a fanatic because you do what we are doing to you, all the time to everyone else. If two people claim to have experienced kundalini, you will discredit them and tell them they are flat out wrong.
It depens on what they say. If what they say doesn't coincide with that experience called Kundalini, then yes, elsewhere not.
But I suppose if someone will relate a typical Focus 2 experience insisting that it was the RTZ you will tell them they are correct, isn't it?
There's nothing wrong on achieving Kundalini, and neither in not achieving it. It is just an experience. However, Kundalini, as every other practical experience has a structure that it is easily recognizable. So why should I cheat about it? Do you think that apart your ego something else is concerned about this?
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 02, 2010, 19:02:18
From an outside perspective, this makes you appear very bigoted. How I behave is signs of mental illness? Your extreme fanaticism and verbal agressiveness combined with the fact that you practice kundalini, known to cause mental illness (unlike breathing, eating, reading and "anything") would seem to suggest that it is you who possesses the unstable mind state.
I just told you that being too emotional can cause what you suggest. See how you reacted. You take everything I say as an insult, but it's not that "maybe" this is a problem YOU have and not me? Was I really offending you?
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 02, 2010, 19:02:18
Thanks for proving me right with the ever so informative post about the benefits of kundalini. Considering you are an expert with lots of experience, you would think you would have a better answer than this...
It's the answer I can give to YOU. If you would have experience in Samadhi I would give you another one. In your particular case, however, it would mean even less than the above.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 02, 2010, 19:02:18
You are denying very, very basic facts regarding sleep. There is a specific chemical released when the body falls asleep, that paralyzes it so you dont act out your motions in the dream. Are you suggesting that you astral project and walk around in the real world carrying on your normal life?
What the hell have this to do with what I said? I just said that sonnambulism is a proof that sleep paralysis and dream are not tied togheter. That there are specifical chemicals released when the body falls asleep doesn't change this absolutely. I told you, in fact, than when the body doesn't give signals no more to the brain it is much easier to start dreaming, but it is not automatic (or maybe only at beginning) nor it is necessary to have the body asleep to start dreaming.
Again, SP and dreams usually coincides (for various reasons), but one can exist without the other, and you can experience one without the other, so one is not needed to obtain the other, it can be useful, but not necessary. And then, it also depends on what you want to do.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 02, 2010, 19:02:18
And... what about councious projection? What do I do to "start dreaming" when I exit the body immediatly after entering paralysis? Not sure what youre trying to say here but phasing into the astral or counciously projecting outwards are both very easy to accomplish from the "trance" state.
I was saying that you can enter sleep paralysis by just staying still enough time but that will not mean that you will start dreaming. They are two SEPARATE processes.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 02, 2010, 19:02:18
What are you trying to get at? This is completly irrelevant and sadly your intuition has failed you once again. You are a grown woman? Shocking, I think most people here can agree that we assumed your were quite young and immature.
It was just a joke, child. Again you are overeacting.
Quote from: Capt. Picard on September 02, 2010, 19:02:18
You are looking from implications in places where there were none.
Again I was joking. I just did to you what you always do with my posts. It is not so good, isn't it? Let's see if now you understand it.
Quote from: Stillwater on September 03, 2010, 16:34:41
There are people whom seem to have exhibited symptoms kundalini literature traditionally mentions, without any history of meditation or esoteric practice.
There are some people that experience rising of Kundalini in only certain chakras (usually only the root or spleen) but this is not properly awakening. However as I said there are predisposed people that can awake Kundalini unconsciously given the means. But in this case the result is much worser.
Quote from: Stillwater on September 03, 2010, 16:34:41
People Like El Collie suffered their entire lives from these symptoms, with severe gastric and nerve troubles beside. She also related, like many others, that her body would be directed to take specific poses.
Again, rising the Kundalini in the root chakra is not awakening her. It is all another thing. There are some people that think that just because they can "see" a snake rise, or because they do meditation on the chakras only they are "awakening" Kundalini. Meditation is not enough, you have to really stir a determinate current, identify with it and raise throught the top of your head. You need specific practices to do it, it doesn't come by itself not is reproducible in other ways (or better, there are others, but they are even more difficult to produce).
Quote from: Stillwater on September 03, 2010, 16:34:41
There are also the writings of Gopi Krishna relating his similar life-long experiences.
Yes, but after he really awakened Kundalini himself, before he only had brief risings of the same.
Quote from: Stillwater on September 03, 2010, 16:34:41
I don't have a problem with people saying that Kundalini has been trumped up, and is billed as a metaphysical cureall, since it seems to bring more suffering than anything, but it is clear, at least to me, that people, especially those with meditative practices, have been experiencing a phenomenon of physiological changes, regardless of what you want to think about the phenomenon.
If Kundalini brings suffering then or you haven't awakend but only rised her in the root (or at best the spleen), or you exchange a thing for another. To awaked Kundalini you need at last Dhyana (better Samadhi), and with it all these emotional discards should exists no more.
Quote from: Naykid on September 02, 2010, 10:52:51
Silly me, I'd call that lying. Thank you for making it clear that you are person that will manipulate certain things. I think I almost have you figured out.
Yes, you are right. I'm lying just because I don't want to be pestered by idiots asking me to make friends or wanting to chat all the day.
I manipulate others because I always expose myself explaining totally what I mean by things, this is just what somebody that wants to hide something does. How not, you have really all figured out, above all what you figured is not biased but what you want to see at all, I see.
But, as it always happens with you, have you said ANYTHING AT ALL constructive on the arguemnt apart attacking me personally? It is possible that really you have nothing better to do, like pheraphs replying on what you think is incorrect on what I said about Kundalini?
>_<
that's me straining real hard to raise my kundalini.....
or i might be in the loo.
same thing really.
Quote from: Selea on September 04, 2010, 06:11:52
Yes, you are right. I'm lying just because I don't want to be pestered by idiots asking me to make friends or wanting to chat all the day.
I manipulate others because I always expose myself explaining totally what I mean by things, this is just what somebody that wants to hide something does. How not, you have really all figured out, above all what you figured is not biased but what you want to see at all, I see.
But, as it always happens with you, have you said ANYTHING AT ALL constructive on the arguemnt apart attacking me personally? It is possible that really you have nothing better to do, like pheraphs replying on what you think is incorrect on what I said about Kundalini?
Your first comment is a perfect example of sounding superior and arrogant. I suppose it's not a crime that you act like this but here's a clue, don't go on a site touting your knowledge, if the last thing you want, are idiots trying to be your friend.
This is what I do. *shrug* I observe and then comment. You turned me off wanting to know about the subject long ago, so you've become the subject to me. I find people very interesting and wonder why they do the things they do. And your behaviour, is not seen that often on this board, so it seems I can't help myself from commenting on your bahaviour. I'm surprised that someone so straight forward and insulting is finding it hard being judged...
If you like I can comment on Kundalini. I find it very confusing and silly, really. It's like driving to the store with someone who insist on taking the long way there, instead of the one left and two rights that would have cut the time in two. And berating you the whole way there. It doesn't speak to me in the least, but I have no problem others believing whole hardily.
I'll keep quiet if you will. :lol:
Quote from: Naykid on September 04, 2010, 10:40:09
Your first comment is a perfect example of sounding superior and arrogant. I suppose it's not a crime that you act like this but here's a clue, don't go on a site touting your knowledge, if the last thing you want, are idiots trying to be your friend.
Usually the most intelligent and less ego-centric - in short words, less idiots - people understand knowledge without dancing with words and hypocritism immediately. Instead, people with maniacal egos, poor knowldege and too much time to spare usually are really only looking at appareances, to be liked and like and the rest, no matter the cost. "To the hell the truth, what matters is what people think of you", isn't it?. In fact, it happens all the time.
Strange that you think the contrary, since it is always instead this way: the offended by arguments (exchanging them for manners) are those that have something to hide inside themselves. It has been so for me too, it is for you and others now.
Then I don't understand what there was of arrogant in that sentence. I just said that since I don't use Facebook I don't want to be pestered by people in it.
If I really was as you said I would just tell others that they are wrong or that they miss the point without explaining everything (as others here do). Instead I always try to explain what I know, in clear and full. Instead you only care about manners, about appareances.
Quote from: Naykid on September 04, 2010, 10:40:09
This is what I do. *shrug* I observe and then comment.
It all depends on WHAT you comment. You say I'm arrogant, yet the only things you do are attacking me personally. This is another clear examples that people that don't like how I behave are those that have indeed nothing to say about things, apart taking arguments as personal attacks directed to their egos.
So, you see, you previous statement has been already declared wrong by how you behave yourself and the fact that you don't like me. See how easy things are?
Quote from: Naykid on September 04, 2010, 10:40:09
You turned me off wanting to know about the subject long ago, so you've become the subject to me.
Please quote where I turned off you having a good argument to talk about, and not only personal insults. If I faulted I will recover.
Quote from: Naykid on September 04, 2010, 10:40:09
I find people very interesting and wonder why they do the things they do. And your behaviour, is not seen that often on this board, so it seems I can't help myself from commenting on your bahaviour. I'm surprised that someone so straight forward and insulting is finding it hard being judged...
The fact is that the behaviour is not seen as much in this board can have various meanings. To you the choice. As for me I'm not finding hard at all being judged, I would only like that people like you would lose less time on it and more on talking about what it is being said in the argument.
Quote from: Naykid on September 04, 2010, 10:40:09
If you like I can comment on Kundalini. I find it very confusing and silly, really. It's like driving to the store with someone who insist on taking the long way there, instead of the one left and two rights that would have cut the time in two. And berating you the whole way there.
And in fact this happens because many people (even estimated authors) refer to Kundalini in ways that are not appropriate. They think they have done it when in fact it was only at most Samadhi (and that would be good, the most of the times it is just utterly nothing at all). So all becomes blurred and things lose all their meaning.
And yet you would like this to continue and you like how things are. It is not a case if so called "mystic" things have become so poorly received in the last times. All people claiming this and that without either finding out if it is correct or not. All new-age stuff of "everything experience things differently" brought to practical practices it is just a lie to cheat yourself being better that you really are. Well, good, you can say: yes I do this the way I prefer, who cares? Problem is, do you REALLY know what it is the way YOU (and not your ego) prefer? Do you really know if the way you "prefer" has anything to do at all with what are your professing to doing?
This is, alas, the major step in learning "mystic" practices. You can exchange easily the gross for the fine if you don't care to really acknowledge the reality of what you experienced. Many people simple don't care. They just want to think they have done this or that. They don't care for truth. But this, in turn, renders the same experience futile for others, they don't understand no more what it means. They don't find roads to follow, or think that the same is all another thing. They think they can do everything they way they prefer, have poor results or self-deluded ones, then report.
Do you find this a good thing? Do you find it good that specific practical experiences have taken the name of "mumbo-jumbo" just because of this?
Quote from: Naykid on September 04, 2010, 10:40:09
I'll keep quiet if you will. :lol:
Have I ever said you (or others) to keep quiet? I usually do the contrary, in fact.
lmao you're such a defensive person... :roll:
It looks more like you're the one with nothing better to do Selea.
4 consecutive posts that probably no one even bothered to read, more words than the PED assignment i should be doing.
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/daz.gif)
My goodness but you love to hear yourself talk. :lol: And this kundalini thing does NOT do wonders for your psychic abilities.
QuoteThen I don't understand what there was of arrogant in that sentence. I just said that since I don't use Facebook I don't want to be pestered by people in it.
No, you did not say that, you said, "idiots" And that, imo is arrogant. I'd be embarrassed to even think something like that. It's one thing to not be able to handle a bunch of people trying to come into your space, it's quite another to think they are below you and you have no time for them. Yuck.
I'm not attacking you personally, just as you claim to not be arrogant or rude I am merely pointing out your behaviour and if that hurts your feelings, which I'm pretty sure it doesn't hurt it in the way it would should, I will try and phrase it in a more passive aggressive manner if that helps. :-)
QuotePlease quote where I turned off you having a good argument to talk about, and not only personal insults. If I faulted I will recover.
I think that is important to you... the arguing, I think you feed off of it. It's obvious you aren't dumb, so you use that, to take energy from others. I've seen this hundreds of times over my life. But, if you don't think you are arrogant, rude and egotistical, then.... never mind, you are not going to see it. Look at it this way. Let's say you just made this awesome steak dinner, I'm talking tenderloin, with a potato loaded with sour cream, saute'ed onions, mushrooms and bacon bits, garlic bread and with a nice little salad to boot. You hand it to me, but you've used a metal trash can lid that has spoiled food stuck to it and a bad smell emanating from it. You took this beautiful dinner, and displayed it on the crappiest plate you could find. Do you get it? I don't want that nasty friggin steak dinner now. Gross.
I'm with you on the fact that we shall both get over this tete a tete.
Let me tell you one more time though, I don't care about this kundalini thing, so I have no comment on it's magic powers. I'm not ready for it I suppose. I'm just not arrogant enough. And believe me when I say, that is surprising! I imagine even if you found a nice pretty plate with flowers on it, to present the kundalini, I still wouldn't have a appetite for it. (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/crazy.gif)
Wow lmao, all those paragraphs and not a single benefit of kundalini stated. Your arguments are so hypocritical and easy to tear down im debating whether even to address them. How you can honestly sit there straight faced and try to tell us we are being insulting, and that we are dismissing people's subjective experiences is beyond me. I guess if you really want me to, I will post again tomorrow and logically tear apart all of your "arguments" but it is becoming blatantly clear to me that you lack the intellectual complexity to even view this issue from someone else's point of view. Then you say I wouldn't understand all condescendingly because you can not answer my very simple question, what are the benefits of kundalini? So these benefits cannot be put in words? Judging from your actions, there are none, and since you are so experienced and still CAN NOT GIVE ME A BENEFIT OF KUNDALINI I have no other choice but to assume there are none. Even your last response to me did nothing but prove everything I've been saying. Its also laughable that you complain about how we are treating you when you know you treat everyone else in that manner, CONSTANTLY. So you can dish it out but you cant take it and we're the hypocrits? You appear to be one of those cases of someone who is just too plain stupid to realize just how stupid they really are. Now i'll just wait for you to complain about insults as if you've never dished one out before.
Putting this thread to pasture.