Violent body rocking during meditation

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

Question: Involuntary Movement During Meditation

Been reading forums to get an answer or a shared experience

Most are lucky , People are reporting have gentle movements or rocking of the body . I have violent movements almost within minutes of sitting in meditation. Its back and forth, then sideways like a snake dancing. Sometimes the hips rock so violently my large solid teak wood  bed shakes and creaks, then the vibration rises to the waist, chest, shoulders then head, like a force field rising from the hips to the head

This vibration distracts the meditation, if you pay attention to it, it stops , if you keep the focus , it increases. The trick is to stay focussed.

Thrice I tried to stop the upper body shaking. It was as if i was trapping the energy in the base of the spine. The base of my spine vibrated so hard , like a radio run amok with the frequency increasing dramatically and fast. It became so hard, i thought the base of my spine would explode and spit out bones. The moment i let the top of the body vibrate , the spine became calm.

You can talk to the vibration mentally and ask questions , it answers you by changes in rocking patterns. This to me indicated an intelligent force.

This is perhaps the kundalini rising.

The most important point to remember is . this is just a symptom on the way, dont pay attention to it. Keep focussed on the goal.

Its the prana running through the nadis and clearing blocks.

Invariably when you come out. your mind is calm and your body at ease, Many people who have had diseases , have found relief.

Is this only me? having violent rocking and vibrations ? or are there others out there?

sanjayrao1010

[spark]

Hi.  This sounds like normal chi stuff.   It can be very intense like this at times.  I does not sound like kundalini.  Kundalini is even more intense.   Anyway, this type of experience will come and go and vary.  It likely involves a combination of increased chi flow and blockages.   Basically, just try to relax and go with the flow.  Try to identify where the blockages are, and kind of relax into them.  Anyway, there is more to it than that ... but, that is the gist.  Don't worry about it though.  Anyway, feel free to ask questions directly.  I have a lot of experience with this ... Mostly, relaxing and going with the flow is the best way to deal with it.

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

Hi Spark,
            Thank you so much for the offer, Could we do it online as all who have the same benefit.

Chi is a Chinese term translated in yogic literature  as Prana, we shall not get into semantics,Its roughly the same thing.

The rocking was not mild Spark, it was extremely intense. To the point that my solid old teak wood bed ( I bought from bali) was creaking and shaking. because my body was shifting it on the floor.

After an hour of body shaking , your brain seems like its floating away with all the violent rocking. The hands twitch and float away. (physically)

If you do have some light on this please share. I did share with some meditation masters here , I have received inputs , now at will i can shut it down. although to be honest , when i sit next to these masters , even with my eyes open, while talking to them my body rocks even though there is no meditation and I am having a conversation. I also see the same in a few secret meditative ashrams hidden away from "spiritual tourists" . It only when I am next to these powerful people or spiritually significant places the rock is spontaneous , even in an normal seated position eyes wide open and having conversations

There is a tendency to lift and nearly fly off the ground. the feeling is i am on the verge of a physical take off.

When i ask  questions . there is a rock, we can almost talk and it answers, leading me to feel its an intelligent force.

I have read a fair amount of literature on Kundalini awakening body symptoms. and the answer is always the same , everyone has different neurological symptoms depending on karmas etc, so its different for different people.

I have been through , intense heat, like your body is inside a steel furnace, you want to nearly scream and your eyes become blood shot, intense sweating, sudden cold till you shiver as if you are naked in snow while its mid summer, ants biting you all over the body.....................all these happened many years back and all died away over time.

This is new for the last 6 months.

Now my strategy is to set a motivation with my gurus and deities, which takes 6 to 7 minutes. After the motivation the rocking stops and u soar away into sublime depths.  But the time of setting the motivation still rocks (lol for the pun). It takes a second, as i close my eyes its instantaneous (less than a second). The interesting aspect is when i finish the motivation the rocking stops, again a sign of it seeming to respond to requests.

Share what you can. I like to listen to everyone

Thank you

[spark]

Hi.  This still sounds like normal chi (or whatever you want to call it).  But, I think it does perhaps have some pre-kundalini type of stuff with it too.  Personally, I think I am in a similar situation with strong chi and pre-kundalini activity.  However, for me, it feels balanced and withotu worries.  Anyway, I also think these thngs are best to avoid trying to make too many assumptions -- like whether "it" is intelligent.  I think that is a pitfall of many.  What is the "it?"  It might be a deeper part of you.  It might be the chi itself.  It might be something that we altogether cannot grasp.  Anyway, there does seem to be an intelligence as you indicate.  But, I would be wary to make assumptions, as those could lead one astray, like following answers blindly, misunderstanding context and responses, etc.  To be honest, I think the answer might be even more complicated ... like that there are multiple sources and/or that the answers are not really always being given accurately, but to guide you.  So, just be careful and mindful.  As for all these things, learning to control is the key.  But, control is not really control, but learning how to relax and looking to or away, kind of like making requests to that intelligence.  Also, the intensity of your rocking can vary a lot for different reasons, such as, e.g., related to blockages you might have.  For example, the body tends to rock (even intensely) if chi flows through blockages.  And, things like standing near masters or the like can impact that flow ... as can standing in a crowd, near a tree, etc.  There are many situations that can affect you ... inclduing emotional states, diet, sleep, and more.  Anyway, I recommend to look into Qigong and Tai Chi. Those are two practices that help one to balance chi and to appreciate the nuances more.   Anywya, I do however think that it is important to try to keep this all in balance, and a HUGE part is to GO WITH THE FLOW, relax, and adjust one's focus via requests, etc.  Good luck .... send a request if any other questions ... good luck. 

[Pauli2]

Ask what your goal is.

Ask also why there are such movements.

[majour ka]

Just the bodies response to energy, happens to me all the time, can also be the bodies response to spirit friends/influence blending with your energy to help you. Regards 

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

@ spark.
             Did check with some meditation gurus. its the prana (chi for chinese) flowing and opening up blockages.

its completely died down now. did three things. 1) Pranayama (breathing exercises) coupled with a few key yoga asanas to physically work on the blocks..............2) If you can meet Mother meera, she touches ur temples and stares a few seconds in your eyes and busts many blocks within...............i saw her pumping people with white light since i can see auras. She lives in germany.

dont know which one worked, but it did. the very next day it died.

You are right, more than crowds , when there was meditating groups, the prana flows stronger. near divine places and old trees.

Spark i have meditated long enough to know , never get worked up, just let go and flow with it. which i did.

I do feel now relieved that the block has been busted. I can sit now for hours in so much ease.

I shall post a new entry between the difference between the kundalini and the prana. Its not very clearly differentiated between all schools. The most interesting one seems the kundilini, is when the prana moves in ths sushumna channel in the spine, the most important channel.

Another describes the prana as the pre activity of the kundalini.

The third says the difference is not in the activity, but in the observer , If he observes it in the spine then its kundalini.

I am not sure the chinese texts can explain this , as the chinese have boiled everything down to chi .( I used to practice Qigong). its because they dont have a differentiate between Chi and kundalini. the explanations are simple.

In sanskrit texts however there is a very very subtle differentiation. The tibetan buddhists however differentiate between the two by saying chi is mild and the freight train experience is kundalini.

Thank you spark. for your inputs..............it was a full 6 months before it stopped . I was told for many it takes years.

It may start again as i run into new blocks.

But the keys that work for me is 1) 20 minutes of yoga, mostly aimed at the spine 2) 10 minutes of pranayama ( as prescribed by a qualified guru. 3) if all fails . Head for Mother Meera, and let her bust the blocks in a few seconds.

Regards

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

What is the difference between prana and kundalini? What is the difference between qi (or chi) and kundalini?

First let us try to relate to concepts from the same tradition - prana and kundalini. Prana has been translated as the ``vital breath'' and ``bio-energetic motility''; it is associated with maintaining the functioning of the mind and body. Kundalini, in its form as prana-kundalini, is identical to prana ; however, Kundalini also has a manifestations as consciousness and a as a unifying cosmic energy. One could ascribe these same aspects to prana as well so past a certain point these become distinctions without differences.

From the subjective standpoint of an individual actually experiencing the awakening of kundalini I have found three completely different opinions:
The first opinion is that a pranic awakening is only a prelude to a full kundalini awakening. Tibetan yogins that I have encountered consider the activation of prana (Tibetan: rlung) as merely a prerequisite for the activation of kundalini (Tibetan: gTummo). What's attractive about this viewpoint is that it explains the difference between the experience of simply having pleasant sensations in the spine and the much more powerful experience of having a ``freight-train''-like full kundalini experience.
The second opinion, espoused by Swami Shivom Tirth for example, is that prana and kundalini are absolutely equivalent and that it is not meaningful in any way to describe a difference between kundalini rising and prana rising. When posed with question as to how to distinguish between pleasant sensations that show some pranic-activity in the spine and the much more powerful experience Swami Shivom Tirth said that the difference is not in the nature of the activity but in the consciousness that observes it. If the consciousness that experiences the pranic activity is seated within the spine (or more correctly, the central channel, known as the sushumna), then the experience is felt much more powerfully.
The third opinion, espoused by the modern hatha yogin, Desikaran, is that pranic awakening is the true experience to be aimed for and kundalini is actually an obstruction. Desikaran sees the kundalini as a block in the central channel and thus the kundalini must be ``killed'' to make way for the prana. This is the most unusual view of the three.

The Chinese concept of qi (or chi) can be safely identified with the Indian concept of prana.

If all this seems confusing - don't worry, you're in good company. My conclusion is that these are all different terminologies for dealing with a common set of experiences. Any one of these viewpoints is adequate for describing the full range of experiences. What is probably more relevant is to distinguish two different experiences which are often confused. In one an individual experiences some pleasant energizing electric energy running along the spine. This experience itself brings about a wide range of experiences and results in vitality and sensitivity. Another very distinct experience is the experience of kundalini entering the sushumna and rising up the spine. As soon as kundalini enters the sushumna this experience will completely overwhelm ordinary waking consciousness. From the moment that kundalini enters the sushumna there will no longer be a distrinction between the subjective consciousness which experiences and the object of experience. This experience much more profoundly transfigures consciousness.

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

Ask what your goal is.

Ask also why there are such movements.

Pauli, meditation without a goal is largely pointless. You have to set a motivation before the individual meditation and the entire process of meditating for years. Then its focussed. Even if you say I meditate on nothingness , its a goal. In sanskrit its called sankalpa. You set a wish, you ask for the blessing of gurus/friendly spirits/guides, whatever people  call it. . Its the difference between saying, I will one day attain x versus , i will start walking but i dont know where.

The second answer to the why, is the blockages.

My query was more in the nature of , what have others gone through and also share experiences for others who may come searching later in such forums.

regards

[Pauli2]

The second answer to the why, is the blockages.

Blockages of what and blockages _to_ what?

[Xanth]

Pauli, meditation without a goal is largely pointless. You have to set a motivation before the individual meditation and the entire process of meditating for years. Then its focussed. Even if you say I meditate on nothingness , its a goal. In sanskrit its called sankalpa. You set a wish, you ask for the blessing of gurus/friendly spirits/guides, whatever people  call it. . Its the difference between saying, I will one day attain x versus , i will start walking but i dont know where.

The second answer to the why, is the blockages.

My query was more in the nature of , what have others gone through and also share experiences for others who may come searching later in such forums.

regards

There's actually a style of meditation where you let go of everything you believe meditation to be, and just allow "it" to happen.
http://vimeo.com/peaceoflove/med1  <-- that's the video which describes this in a much more concise and better way than I ever could. 

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

@ pauli

Blockages of what and blockages _to_ what?

Dear pauli. there is a subtle cosmic force callled Prana that lies in the body. This prana has a subtle network of 76,000 channels. The main being 3 channels along the spine called . sushumna, ida and pingla, you can google and study them. When the prana( chi in chinese)  which lies latent in most people starts to flow, it encounters blocks in the long dormant channels. when these burst open . its leads to various symptoms for various people.

In the final stages of a completely realized person where all is opened . the body acquires a super divine state. Such advanced yogis dispense with the need to eat,drink water or sleep. when the prana flows free, the nature of its energy is self sufficient from any external need . So any outer dependence ( eg , food or water becomes redundant)

For What? this is the real inner wakening or awarness . along with the dissolution of the blocks comes abilities beyond natural humans, Its called the siddhas or gifts.

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

@ xanth.
             Thank you shall have a look at it.

One of the meditations i practice is Trancendental Meditation.

All effort to focus the mind is probihited. Its to be left free and to transcend any physical elements ( no focus on breathing, third eye etc). so there is no focus on anything which is an inward out approach. So the mind becomes a receptor the the universe not a transmittor .

I like it. This has given me the biggest breakthroughs and visions

Any focus on anything is called contemplation not meditation. and a projection of the self , not a unbiased listener to the universe

[spark]

Hi Sanjay ...

Glad to hear things are stabilizing.  In general, I have found that when I faced new blockages, my experiences were somewhat different ... albeit, with parallels.  And, I have found that sometimes the same blockages resurface, although, so far, not as substantially, or, at least, such that they clear more quickly.  I think it is because they relate often to emotional issues and we perhaps have tendencies or habits that rekindle such issues.  But, as you find that you tend to move through the issues, then the worry tends to subside too, which seems to help get thru things more too.  I actually had some strange heart pulses for a few months.  It freaked me out.  I went to a cardiologist and they even saw the pulses, but in the end, it turned out to be benign and it stopped once cleared.  Well, its not fully clear, but it has kind of changed.  Now, I tend to get bursts in the whole chest/spine area sometimes.  But, it is kind of controllable too, and not the heart any longer.  I understand that it might relate to kundalini ...


And, on that note, of what is the difference ... well, I tend to try not to worry to much about figuring these things out.  I think it is so hard to know and that at best we probably just have approximations ... well, at least, along the way we are always really guessing at the next steps.  So, I think it is probably helpful to perhaps try to figure things out a bit, but not to dwell too heavily on it ... again, go with the flow.   But, I don't mean to be totally blind to things, just to more have faith and you willl probably see or understand what you need to and can ask questions from time to time as needed.  I think things tend to transition slow and steady and nicely when one takaes it slow and follows the flow.

As for kundalini, I believe it is an energy at the base of the root chakra that releases and travels upward.  I believe it is perhaps similar to chi (same as prana) but perhaps different source or whatever.  But, i think kundalini is not to be  approacahed too recklessly.  For me, I believe those things because I have experienced some of it.  I had kundalin raise to about my navel a few times (over a year ago), and I have experineced kind of kundalini burst (hard to eplain).  It seems to perhaps travel to blockages na to stop.  I think kundalini will rise once all the blockages are clear.  But, kundalini seems to be extreemely powerful and real.  Like an elecric socket.  And, that it really can affect the body greatly.  I believe my heart pains and bursts in the chest relate to heart chakra issues that are being and need clearing. 

As you  "rocked" based on request,if you are curiuos, you can perahps ask to feel kundalini.  But, I strongy recommend that you dont push it.  It is kind of enticing.  I try to take it slow, but I still find that sometiems I have asked for feeling it more.  Now, when I do, I tend to almost immediately also feel pain in the heart chakra ... which seems to be a reminder that it is perhaps dangerous or unwise to rush it. 

Anyway, good luck.  Hard to type longer since i can no longer read what i am typing on this screen!

Regards,
Steve

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

Hi Spark/Steve,

                     Things are moving fast . and i think you are right.( I think) , when the prana channels are clear the body stops rocking. which it did.

Now i am curious about your implied  statement."when the rocking stops because blockages are opened Then the kundilini starts". Well this is what happened last week. 3 days after the rocking stopped.   I did a very long meditation, close to three hours, with no rocking, such comfort, so deep. so beautiful. i did not feel time pass.

Then right at the end, something strange happened. i felt something massive sort of explode inside, and as if the inside wanted to come out. first it was confusing, as i thought i was wanting to throw up. Then i realized this huge sort of explosion was coming from the navel area. it came up very fast. making me nauseous when it hit the head or was it somewhere near the throat? i dont remember it happened in seconds............it was so hard, that i had to bend over from my meditation position and grip the floor.

then as it went up...........i found i was loosing control of the brain, the explosion was so hard that i was becoming unconscious. I had to stop meditating, and use my escape mantra...............(given by a guru)............it was 15 minutes of struggle to stay conscious and calm down

The next day , i debated a lot whether to meditate or not, because of the previous day. then i said , dont fear, give it a shot.

and...........it was lovely. just drifted away smoothly to visions of the nature of the universe.

it was as if huge blocks were removed.....letting the  mind drift freely deeper.

as to the point of new blocks being created.I guess we have two options 1) move into a mountain so that new emotional  blocks dont accumulate. 2) or if you stay in the real world, emotional blocks will keep arising like ant hills and u have to keep knocking them down.

does it all make sense to you in your practice?

Regards to you

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

     Things are moving fast . and i think you are right.( I think) , when the prana channels are clear the body stops rocking. which it did.

Now i am curious about your implied  statement."when the rocking stops because blockages are opened Then the kundilini starts". Well this is what happened last week. 3 days after the rocking stopped.   I did a very long meditation, close to three hours, with no rocking, such comfort, so deep. so beautiful. i did not feel time pass.

Then right at the end, something strange happened. i felt something massive sort of explode inside, and as if the inside wanted to come out. first it was confusing, as i thought i was wanting to throw up. Then i realized this huge sort of explosion was coming from the navel area. it came up very fast. making me nauseous when it hit the head or was it somewhere near the throat? i dont remember it happened in seconds............it was so hard, that i had to bend over from my meditation position and grip the floor.

then as it went up...........i found i was loosing control of the brain, the explosion was so hard that i was becoming unconscious. I had to stop meditating, and use my escape mantra...............(given by a guru)............it was 15 minutes of struggle to stay conscious and calm down

The next day , i debated a lot whether to meditate or not, because of the previous day. then i said , dont fear, give it a shot.

and...........it was lovely. just drifted away smoothly to visions of the nature of the universe.

it was as if huge blocks were removed.....letting the  mind drift freely deeper.

as to the point of new blocks being created.I guess we have two options 1) move into a mountain so that new emotional  blocks dont accumulate. 2) or if you stay in the real world, emotional blocks will keep arising like ant hills and u have to keep knocking them down.

does it all make sense to you in your practice?

Regards to you

[Stillwater]

(Topic merged with the other topic which was a response to it. Respond to topics IN that topic, lol.)

[spark]

Hi.   To be honest, I am not entirely certain what you are experiencing.  It does not sound like a complete kundalini rising event.  It is my impression that such an event is typically rather slow (perhaps minutes) and feels like a snake slowly rotating around and penetrating the body from the root chakra.  That is what I have read and that is what I experienced, albeit only up to my navel.  But, I do have kind of bursts now ... which sound a lot like your explosion.   And, in a near sleep state, I had a burst that sounds much like you said too.   But, not exactly.  Anyway, I tend to think that my bursts are kind of pre-kundalini events that are perhaps caused by kundalini.  Actually, that was a thought I had and also suggested by a kundalini active person too.  So, it might be that your issues have pre-kundalini type of thing going on too.  But, I am not really sure.  Anyway, if your violent rocking was caused merely by chi blockage, then I tend to doubt that you would so quickly clear it and have kundalini rise.  I think this stuff tends to take its time ... blockages clear slowly, and kundalini takes time to rise when we are ready ... usually, at least.  But, you may have kundalini starting to seek to rear its head ... Anyway, if so, I tend to suggest not to rush it.  It is perhaps more intense than you expect and seems to sometimes cause problems if raised too early.  Anyway, I am also thinking that perhaps you could help smooth things out a little by practicing some Tai Chi and perhaps focusing some exercising.

[sanjayrao1010 on twitter]

Hi Spark/Steve,
                        You may be right it may not be kundalini, it could be pre kundilini.I really dont know, and then as you suggest, I should not become overtly obsessed with it either way. I just stick to my practice and be single minded on it without worrying about the symptoms

I would like to perhaps share with you my understanding............................I dont think its within human hands to rush or slow down the evolution of the rise of the Kundalini, unless of course you give up the practice.

Nor as my understanding is there a fixed time for manifestation , or a predictability of the nature of how we evolve spirituality. The only thing that is a constant is there has to be a firm resolve in the direction you want to take. and the resolve to be in the practice.The reactions vary depending on the gross and subtle bodies of the people, and as you know no two people have the same make up

What I do understand is the speed is determined by a) Baggage of Karma every human carries. and as this may vary, times may vary 2) For those who believe in rebirth, its also the lifetimes of practice put in over past lives.  I heard a story of one boy who was given a mantra, on his very first utterance, his body physically floated one feet off the ground. A German friend of mine on his very first meditation class went into complete Samadhi . I have also heard of people in meditation for 30 years and have gone no where , maybe because of their Karmic  burden.

There is also the 360 degree view of integration of all understanding into a 24 hour watch of their mind by some people, who shoot faster. Then there are those who do their daily ritual meditation , but the rest of the day they lead their normal life with their old tendencies. They would obviously take longer is my understanding.

There are those who think meditation is sitting for those few minutes or hours..................for  some the whole day is living meditation, as you know the longer you stay in the meditative state, the bigger the build up of the momentum

I take your point of chi training to release blocks and bring some fluidity within the body. I use the process sometimes of asanas, and more often than not i prefer , breathing exercises.

Regards Steve

regards