I couldn't have said it better myself. [:D]
I've been meaning to post something along these lines for a while now and I completely agree. (Very diplomatically put, too.[|)]) I believe that almost anything is possible. Just because I can't do it doesn't mean none of the other people here can![:)]
Hi,
It was not really my intention to limit anyone's beliefs of what is and is not possible. I personally believe in possibility of levitation, telekinesis, etc. and I also intend to experience these things at some point in my life. The problem with this DBZ system is that it is based on what you WANT to be real, not on what has actually been experienced personally. I doubt that any of you have directly experienced, or know someone who has experienced, DBZ-like phenomena. Personal experience is everything. Trying to shape reality around a belief system is self-deception, and it will prevent you from understanding things as they really are. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to develop these abilities, but at what point will you stop (assuming no results are achieved) to move on to something more rewarding.
It may be that the resistance to discussions about DBZ are from the point of view that it seems to promote the use of energy either for violence, or unrealistic goals, as opposed to the ability of ki balls being unrealistic.
This does seem to be at odds with what the rest of this site is about. Everything is possible, just not everything is beneficial.
It may appear that some are being judgemental, but maybe they are just tired of seing nothing but violence from this world, and the ability to learn to use ki energy for spiritual goals is of far greater value to them than comparisons to a cartoon whose main theme is fighting. Nobody is disputing its entertainment value, just its teaching value.
If one's purpose in learning to work with ki energy is to create energy balls, then that is ones choice, and not for anyone else to discorage. Each person has their own goals. It is worth remembering though that when this site was created it was for the purposes of discussing and learning more about astral travel, psychic development & protection, and the related spiritual development. There are a large number of DBZ forums on the web. Astral Pulse is almost a one of a kind. Nobody is trying to go out of their way to bag DBZ, they're just trying to retain a bit of perspective as to the original theme of this site.
James.
yes, but how can you make a difference in the world if you can't really DO anything?
Lately I've just sort of been sickened by the state the world is in. We can't seem to do anything right. Sure, spiritual development inside oneself is great, but how can it help anyone besides you?
I guess the reason I tend to believe anything is possible is because we're going to need everything to fix what's wrong with the world these days.
People who cultivate their energy internally are happy, healthy, lucky, and more capable of acting in the physical world. They direct their efforts so as to get more results from less energy. Their speech is carefully regulated. We need more people like this because everyone likes having them around. If they can do magic tricks, too, they generally keep it to themselves. It is better to make changes in ways that appear completely natural.
Define natural.
What I meant was "ordinary" but the word "natural" applies better for me. When no one knows that something was accomplished by bending the "rules" that is best.
Define rules.
Are we talking concepts the human mind can handle? (Those who haven't been introduced to this forum of course.)
Or are we thinking cosmic rules of the universe?
I have a reply ready for either.
Then please just provide both answers. Neither is what I had in mind exactly. Everyone perceives a different universe.
One's perception of the universe determines one's abilities in areas like this. When one door opens, another closes, and vise versa. What does it matter what we can do with ki unless we're going to be super ki masters or something? It's good to question to see how far one can go with it in their training, but I think this research is best done by looking in areas of health and fitness in the book store. Even if the book itself may not have everything you want, you might be able to get a list of resources that were used to write that book and do the research yourself.
There are several reasons why you don't see a whole lot of people running around blasting each other with giant balls or rays of energy. First of all, not many are aware that this energy even exists in the first place. Second, is perception of the Universe. Perception determines the connections made in the brain. Our brains are extremely powerful tools, and we only use 10% of them, and geniuses like Albert Einstein use about 15% (Albert Einstien was definitely right when he said that imagination was more important than knowledge. Your imagination can help you to change your perception of the Universe). The Universe must have opposites in order to exist. In order for there to be opposites, there must be rules. In order for there to be rules, there must be perception. And, finally, in order for there to be perception there must be interpretation. It's long and complicated, but in the end, just remember to not ever believe 100% that something isn't possible. Don't interpret this to necessarily mean you have to change your entire perception of the Universe to become a ki master. Probably just a tiny part of it will be enough. Make sure that it doesn't affect anything you value though. If it does, go back and check your belief system and go from there.
I must say that this thread is fascinating. EnderWiggin's explanation on perception actually amazes me, that is, if I understand it correctly. Is imagination really more important than knowledge? Maybe. If you you increase the percentage used of your brain, and increase your connection with spirituality, you could possibly do anything. But how does one reach that point? Can it even happen? Would it only happen to certain people, with a natural, biological inclination to it? I've so many questions and there are so few answers, but right now my mind seems more stimulated than ever as I try to find these answers.
-Mera
Going back to Tom's first post:
You seem to be missing the point, not that I'm making it all that well[:I].Yes, it's great to have around people who are all spiritually happy and stuff. But what DIFFERENCE does it make if they're happy? To make a difference, you're definitely going to have to redefine the "rules" as far as human perception in general goes.
As far as cosmic "rules" of the universe, who really knows what they are? Who really cares? I certainly don't, because I'm not entirely sure there ARE rules in this sense. If I can't do something and have never heard of anyone doing it, I don't dismiss it as impossible. I just think that maybe no one knows how to do it. That doesn't mean they aren't capable of it.
Whoa, I just totally confused myself. [:D]
On this thread and some of the others, it has seemed like I could benefit from having someone to translate for me. Even when it seems like I am staying on topic, it becomes clear to me from the responses that this is far from true. This is one thread where I am better off just reading about it.
Nah, I enjoy lengthy discussions that stray so far from the topic it's ridiculous. [:D]
Actually it's not THAT far. It's still vaguely about what's possible with energy...I think.
No matter how vastly theoretical a conversation tends to get, I prefer to keep it grounded in what most people can do fairly quickly without having to move into a monastery. For people who have gone beyond this level and can do more, there is a tendency to pretend that they are just like everyone else.
Why should they? As soon as I can actually do anything, I intend to show my little brother and teach him everything. Then my best friends, and we'll extend the cirle. Everyone deserves to know.
We are not talking about the same level of ability. What I mean is that if someone has an unusual level of ability compared to what the average open-minded person can accomplish then there is more to gain from gradual instruction than sudden displays. Compared to the average closed-minded person, someone with superior ability has more to gain from staying away.
Wow i really enjoy this site and all the interesting debates/ topics.
I honestly have noticed as i progress in different areas including energy development, third eye awakening or whatever it is and just all the areas which for me seem to be finally peaking im not concerned with blasting a ki ball at a wall.
Its as if the more a person actually experiences i think the more people see how its not theory. There are some very real laws here of some kind.. i dont think we understand them but they're not that easy.
Its not as if once you start to see visions you can automatically read someones mind. They come in stages and I honestly believe a person who is really experiencing and working on these things realizes the obstacles. From reading some of these dragonball Z sites i'd think i have a far way to go because i can only see auras and have mind eye visions. I believe they take what's theoretically possible because of phenomenon such as energy and exaggerate it to prove they're at the top. Its hard to explain but when i read certain posts by people who are working on improving certain areas I read about "im having problems with this". Or I can only sustain the lucid dream for a certain amount of time. But when someone is like "yeah im creating energy balls.. im levitating.. im _____" ill show you all how when i can. I wonder why its so easy for them. Why dont they talk about the little intricate(sp?) problems? This isn't to say it has to be so hard.. but where's the work? where's the detail of the progression? or did some people just wake up and suddenly put their hands together creating a ki ball. And i dont mean just reading or watching a cartoon then creating one. I mean.. progression.. where you started with the new system and started to observe strange things.
It seems like these powers are it.. are these our ultimate goals.? I personally am exstatic everytime i have a minds eye vision while meditating. For me thats a big deal because i experienced it.. it shows im progressing. Why the jump to all these fantastic powers?
Im going to drop this now and instead focus more on the topics Im more familiar with.
quote:
Originally posted by silva
Why the jump to all these fantastic powers?
Who said we're jumping? I personally know that I'm not going to be able to levitate or anything until I can at least make a ki ball. I'm guessing people don't post the progression because they think it's boring to hear about the little things.
Hi,
Let me tell you about an experience I had when I was a child.
It was a few minutes after the school bell had gone. I was still in nursery. I came out with lots of schoolwork I was recently allowed to take home for a while. I was walking down the road to the car and a strong gust of wind came. It blew a few pieces of work onto the road. I ran onto the road without looking, grabbed my school work and looked up. 3 inches in front of my face was a car. I got extremely scared in a very short burst. The next thing I know I am 4 feet in the air above the path to the side of the road. I hit the ground with a thump and told my mum what just happened. She simply said "dont be so silly". I never spoke to her about it again.
-
Now If that is possible, dont you think that other things are? The chances are that I was in such a state of shock I had a short limit break (as it was a live-or-die situation) and teleported.
Anyway, thats enough of my story. Over to you.
Cya,
James.
I would have to agree with most things said previously and from the looks of it the conclusion is that the extent of ki ability depends on the limitation of the mind towards its practices. If you can control your mind then you can control your ki. So it depends on how easily you take and believe the concept of ki and the extent of your belief as to what you can achieve with it.
I think that if you open your mind to the endless possiblitys that you can explore. Then you can achieve anything that you desire
But then again thats just me!!
If controlling mind = controlling body, then I'm in trouble. I do random stuff all the time without even reakizing it. Like I just noticed that I'm wiggling back and forth as I type this. No reason. Didn't even notice til I read this post.
Or do you mean control over one's thoughts? I'm not much better there...
Oh, I know! It would be lucky for me if you meant control of one's beliefs. I've got that. I think. [:D]
Sufficiant to say, perhaps, is that ANYTHING is possible.If you believe, (and there is a big difference between believing and wanting to believe) that something can be done, then it can be.To qoute the bible, which i dont do often because even though i was born christian (R.C) my beliefs are far more complicated now;Jesus said "if you can look at the mountain and KNOW that you can move it, the mountain WILL move" The wording is not exactly right but the meanings the same.
Parmenion
I like the example of controlling your beliefs that my philosophy professor used: Can you believe that I'm your father(or mother or whatever) utterly and without a doubt even though you know it's not true. Our knowledge and reason keeps us from completely controlling our beliefs. Well, my two cents. As far as thoughts and physical control, I'm always twitching and my mind wan... Hey a blue car!
hey, i agree with all of you, and auraseer, i believe you with the being from one place to another in an instant, but it might have been adrenalin. sometimes when it is a life or death situatuion for your life or a loved ones life you can get an adrenalin rush you know. like one time when i was probably about 5 or younger, when i didn't even know a bit about fighting, my bro was trying to teach me how to fight and he told me that there was no way to block this attack and i believed him, and he did an air kick at me and i got sooooo freaked! All of the sudden everything went in slow motion it seemed like and i ducked down reeeeally quick and just kicked him from under and knocked him on his butt! and he is almost 6 years older than me! My point being is that it might have been adrenalin rush!
I just read Malcoms opinion of dbz fans and the relation to ki development and tequniques. I would have to say that it was appaulingly un-encouraging. The way i look at it is:
None of us fully understand or controlol ki (not that i've seen)
We dont know the limits and possiblity's of its use
We know that it can be powerfull and is definately real
& we shouldnt judge people if they wish to relate that to dbz. I mean i know it is exagerated but i think that some of those things are achievable. No-one has they right to say what can and cant be done because unless you know for sure (which im sure you dont) then you cant really say.
Im not insulting anyone but i think you should all be more open minded about the things that poeple believe can be done.
You might think that from my nickname that im defending dbz which in part i am (i think its an entertaining show) i just couldnt think of another nick. So to those out there who think that ki could be used to make balls of concentrated power that can destroy things then thats your opinion and i cant say that it wont happen. It might happen for all i know.
Sorry if i offended anyone but we really shouldnt judge anyones belief in the extent of ki if we dont know.
Thanx