I have been doing some reading about energy work, and I have even tried to practice it myself. I used NEW and I felt the tingling and so on that is to be expected with it. But then I stopped and thought for a moment. What is it that energy work supposed to do you? Is it supposed to make you happier or stronger or smarter?
I have tried to understand chakras and how they are connected to the different kinds of feelings of a human being. I then read that if you are hurt emotionally – ex. if your girl- or boyfriends breaks up with you, then it can affect you hearth chakra. Well that sounds logical. Then a closed down hearth chakra is the indication of that you feel bad but not the cause of it (very important).....
Let me put it in another way. You life is not caused by you chakras, you chakras are caused by life and by affecting your life you affect your chakras and NOT the other way around. Please comment.
Is it just me or do you people (sorry for generalizing) think that doing energy work will make you happier in life? I would have loved to weave that question a bit around so it wouldn't seem so direct and childish but that was my core-thought.
Are you people who are doing energy work unhappy for some reason? And is it not true that people that have never ever done energy work or heard about it can actually have much much higher energy levels than people that have done it for years?
Is it then not just an illusion that energy work will do anything for you but make you tingle a bit? Should the "real" energy not be used to correct the physical problems in stead of manipulating energy?
I can give an example. Yesterday I went to my Danish test-exam where I had to write an essay. I had been very nervous for that exam many days before, and that of course made me feel bad. So by some sort of reflex-thought I began doing some energy work. Then I stopped and realized that it was not going to help anything – the only thing that would help was going to that exam and finishing it. The reason I felt bad was because I doubted in my abilities to analyze a text and find the message of it.
When I had finished my exam I felt greater than I had felt and there was no energy work involved!
Can some of you relate to that?
Do you do energy work in order to overcome problems in your life? Or do you at least think that energy work will easy your lives?
In the end is energy raising not just caused by fear and doubt in one self? "oh I must do more energy work or I will have low energy – perhaps even lover than others' and that will in the end make me less of a human than them!!"
Can we call it a more accepted quest for power (and perhaps even more extended as you will take it with you when you die) do you think that it will make you more powerful in the afterlife?
Please prove me wrong.....
Have you considered regular exercise programs like lifting weights? That has got to be the stupidest thing anyone can do. The weights are picked up, moved through a simple pattern, and then returned to where they were stored. It accomplishes nothing, and it uses a lot of calories. It isn't even like the weights are used to hit something to break it. Sure, the idea is to have bigger muscles. It only makes sense when you consider that bigger muscles are not built up for the purpose of lifting more weights.
Same thing with working with energy.
But can we agree that the motivation behind weight-lifting and energy work can be of the same selfish kind? That it is in order to make us seem better and stronger than others and that thought alone is considered to be NOT GOOD? and therefore the main purpose is corrupted. no matter if the way it is accomplished is good.
A pirate ship with a good crew is bad. A good ship with a pirate crew is also bad. Only a good ship with a good crew is good.
Anything, no matter how good, can be spoiled by a bad motivation. Fortunately with meditation and energy work, a bad motivation is not likely to lead to the extensive training required to hurt other people.
Ok then. tell me your reasons for doing energy work and meditation. i will bet my right arm that you are doing it for a purpose (i write it because i have been trying to do things without a purpose - which is hard!!) and if so would you elaborate on your purpose and what you think your core-motivation was and then tell me if it cannot be tracked back to something selfish?
i will not be shy to admit that i consider myself selfish!
I do energy work specifically to "tune up" my body. My immune functions are better, my sleep is more peaceful, I am healthier. I do meditation to tune up my mind. My mind is under my control, quiet and satisfied. I guess my motivation is to rise above the usual existance, under the assumption that this life is the limit of what there is, or buying into a dogmatic religion. I use the energy work and the meditation to pull back the curtain so to speak, to attune with myself. Selfish is a concept, as is everything else. When doing things of a spiritual nature I tend to leave the concepts behind, erase all thought and just be. Expand my grasp of the wider reality i guess. Without the use of these 2 things, I would still be stuck in the rut of modern day life, lacking the spiritual muscle to explore things people only dream of, literally. 8) I can understand your feelings that it is selfish, and in a way, anything we do for ourself is self-ish.
If we don't take care of ourselves, other people will have to do it for us. If we take care of ourselves first, we will have the resources to also help other people. Energy work and meditation lead to a feeling of being connected with other people, so it becomes increasingly natural to want to help them for selfish reasons. Being spiritual does not require avoiding selfishness; it is just about changing the object of those feelings.
Doing things for no reason sounds crazy to me. That is why I ignored the whole thread. Almost as bad would be doing things without knowing the reason. Either way it is like choosing unconsciousness. Some people would even say that a rock sitting in the middle of nowhere has its purposes. It is okay to have purposes for doing things; the thing that all the texts advise it to do things without attachment to the results.
QuoteI tend to leave the concepts behind, erase all thought and just be. Expand my grasp of the wider reality i guess. Without the use of these 2 things, I would still be stuck in the rut of modern day life, lacking the spiritual muscle to explore things people only dream of, literally. Cool I can understand your feelings that it is selfish, and in a way, anything we do for ourself is self-ish.
That is what i am trying to say. That everything we do very deep down is based on something simple as selfishness. and that this selfishness is the core-cause in
everything that we do, and that it apparently also follows us into the realms of spirituality and that some people choose to think themselves above it when they are actually as entangled in it as the average everyday human.
and as i wrote before this spirituality journey seems (when i look at it with my paranoid eye) that this is just another level greediness, just one step up the ladder from physical materialism. i bet that you are happy with what you have achieved now. and you treasure your state of "enlightment" with the same intensity as the one has worked his entire life to buy himself the house of his dreams. This will make him rise above the crowd and shine just a little brighter. and he likes it - the feeling of being MORE and BETTER than others is intoxicating. just as the feeling of having build up so much energy that you feel you could electrify somebody. it gives the exact same satisfaction as having collected of a lot of valuable physical stuff. but in the end it makes you happy and secure because that you feel better than others.
i am not saying that it is totally unmoral to feel that way. i have already myself come to the rather harsh conclusion that there are some people that are able to run faster, stay healthier, be more kind, have better moods, think much sharper and so on than others. and i have come to live with the fact that the indeed ARE better than other humans in terms of performance - and i mean performance at every level of what a human can - like in forgiveness and in the ability to love. so they are better and they are therefore also allowed to feel better (lol)!
yes i guess this was what Hitler referred to as the "Übermensch" (not that I share any of his other concepts like the killing of the Jews.)
I guess that what i am trying to do is to get YOU people to admit that even this house of enlightment and spirituality is build of the same stones of selfishness as everything ells!
Come on people say it: "We are selfish, we are selfish, we are selfish" :)
Yep, it can be quite selfish.
Then again, selflessness is kind of pointless when nobody wants to be helped.
Chris
Before enlightenment, attempting to be selfless is the most selfish thing a person can do. After enlightenment, there is no need for effort because the ego drops away.
I don't understand your arguments at all. Just because you take care of yourself you're selfish? It doesn't make sense.
yeah i have read something like that too. But i am having great difficulty in imagining a human being without an EGO. i would find that impossible. that would make you somewhat NOT human..... a desire-less being. i really do not believe in that. do you find yourself to be enlightened and without an ego then?
QuoteI don't understand your arguments at all. Just because you take care of yourself you're selfish? It doesn't make sense.
well i don't think it is so difficult. most things that we do are selfish, in one way or another. well when it benefits you and you know it is it not right to call it selfish when you consciously practice that action?
i actually had trouble sleeping last night as i thought this thing about selfishness over and over again. and i must admit it almost gave me a headache. but then i realized that the reason it annoyed me so much was that i have always thought it was very bad being selfish.
i have come to doubt that now. perhaps being selfish is good, at least it would justify it.
am i just way off here? sigh....
I guess I will start taking my pills again and go to sleep wearing the straitjacket which my mother has so kindly sewn for me.
Simple, my friend.
Divide "selfishness" into two categories:
1. Something you do that benefits yourself. (Lifting weights, eating food, going to a movie)
2. Something you do that benefits yourself despite what it may do to other people. (Eating pizza in front of starving children, putting shopping carts on railroad tracks, cutting people off in traffic)
Practice #1 and there's no problem, in my opinion! You're not hurting anyone... :)
Chris
I think the problem is that I don't really consider #1 to be selfishness. To me, selfishness is only #2.
QuotePractice #1 and there's no problem, in my opinion! You're not hurting anyone... Smile
well that is the thing. that is also what i would consider as being purely selfish without the side effects of benefiting others. if one can be okay with that. then he/she would have great peace of mind in every other action he/she would make as the person acknowledges being selfish but lives on anyway not feeling bad about it.
can anybody come up with an action that helpes others and in no way makes you feel good?
I'm confused... please explain to me how doing something for yourself is a problem. And what would be the truely "good" thing to do in its stead?
Chris
What's wrong with selfishness. One of the major problems is that people limit themselves, thinking "oh, there's not enough for everyone else"
I call Bull Sheit. It's not bad to want energy, or money. It's what you do with it. You could use either your money or energy for unjust purposes. You could raise enough energy to become psychic and use that for ill purpose. Same goes with money. Just because you have it, or want excess isn't necessarily bad.
I'm working on manifesting 10 million dollars or more. Not for selfish reasons. I'll have a normal house, as I do now. I will build my daughter and her mother a house, and I will never ever ever work another day of my life in any corporate environment.
I will open a spiritual center where I teach people how to open their eyes. Teach people how to be themselves and not your average clone. I look at all the teenagers nowadays. They all wear ripped jeans or Dickies, tshirt, messy hair and trucker hat. There is no individualism. There is no hope. The younger crowd has a bad bad outlook on the future. Not there is anything wrong with Dickies and trucker hats, but I can't tell one from the other.
This is in fact due to the loss of family values and the media jamming down your throat "what you need to make you happy"
It is my destiny to help people out of that trap. I know this is kind of off topic. I do energy work because it gives me a body buzz. I haven't done it lately out of lazieness and watching too much of the IDIOT BOX (which I'm about to throw out the window)
It is not selfish to want what you want, whether it be energy or money. One mustn't forget that we really all are interconnected. Tom is right about what he said in an earlier reply that the energy work will enable us to heal ourselves, instead of wasting tons of money going to a "GUESSER" that will just ram something from "PHIZER" or "ABBOTT" down our throat which will probably only make the problem worse.
Remember what Jesus said. "You can also do as I do and even better"
Kevin
To me, selfishness doesnt exist. In my eyes, if it was remotely practical, I would no longer speak, use math, or keep track of time. All 3 dont truly exist, aside from what we impute. I dont believe that these words mean anything, but for practical application they do. It would be hard to get by without talking or writing or keeping track of time. If you would point to a chair and ask me "what is this" I would say "a chair". If you would ask me to tell you what it really is I would say nothing. It is. It isnt even that simple though!!
The word is, when you think about it, is in itself a meaningless word. What is is??? You ask anyone what a chair is and to them it is a chair. If you would ask them what it REALLY is, they would look at you in a confused fashion and say "a chair?" The basic wiring of western minds in todays society isnt inferior to mine, the concept of me being superior has faded long ago with the act of using labels, there is no superior or inferior. Nothing is its label. A chair isnt a chair, it is wood, put together with nails and paint. But wood, nails and paint are not wood nails and paint. You break it down to the particles that make up the basic atoms and we cant go any farther, so basically we dont know what anything is. Notice how we come back to the word is. All language is tied together and comes back to words that mean nothing and have no concrete explanation. I am basically rambling and am not sure if I am still making sense, or if I ever did, its hard to explain my views with language for obvious reasons I attempted to explain above.
I'm with Tom and Nucklebrain here lol
I admit, the when i first started playing around with my energy, when i was 12 ( 6 years ago :shock: ), i wanted to fly......yes, I'm a dbz fan :lol:
lol it only took me a week to realize that wouldn't work lmao. So i experimented with my energy more, and i discovered that i would heal myself quickly, sooth almost all my aches and pains, and discovered my sensitivity to the world around me. (I'm working on healing others know that i know more about myself)
I do energy work as a habit, and because of it i have become a LOT less greedy, happy 98% of the time, calm all the time, and able to solve a lot of problems other people cant (they just cant seem to step back and look at the problem :shock: if they did that they could solve it lol).
Lets put it this way, thanks to my energy work, i followed the path that felt right to me, and never went off that path. I'm not going to say that i give everything to help others, because i ha vent, i live in the modern world to.
I will be the first one to admit I'm greedy when it comes to certain things (my books, dragon statues, and swords/daggers) but I'm in no way selfish like your describing :shock:
One of the greatest memories i have is the day i went to the Denver museum of art. When i was walking in, i seen this elderly man, he was pulling a oxygen tank behind him and was at least 80 years old. I noticed no one was even looking at the man so i held the doors open and helped him out. He smiled at me the whole time, just remembering that smile worms my heart.
I walked out with him after the doors closed and told him to be careful and have a good day. He turned to me and said a sentience that i will never forget, and it still confuses me to this day.
"Good things will come in your future" he said wile pointing at me and grinning before walking off.
After doing energy work for a wile, you do reach a state of enlightenment that is all ready in yourself, you just couldn't see it.
I never hold it over anybody, in fact, i tell them how to find it, but they never listen. I put up with a lot of weird looks and comment from my family (all of them are VERY religious), but i don't hold it against them.
There isn't a reason for me to do energy work anymore, but i still do it. I help people when ever i can, its in my nature now and i cant change it ( i don't want to). Energy work has changed my life, made me a better person.
I still don't hold it over anybody, i feel as if I'm in the back round, watching the world rush around me, a lot like a tree. I want to help everyone, but i know that's not possible. If i find anyone who listens, i hope that it helps them to lead a life like mine.
Am i selfish?
EDIT: I agree with nightlight, its very hard to explain, just incase i didnt explaine it right
Very very well said. I guess I kind of got off the beaten path with my post, and you basically summed up how energy work changed me as well, but I had changed greatly from my dedication to Buddhism as a *philosophy first, and energy work came as an add on, almost as a spice on top of my already developed *beliefs. The old man's comments shouldnt be confusing for you. I believe you know why he said what he did.
To continue my explanation a bit more to hopefully clarify a bit, maybe moreso for myself :lol: since I have never really put it on paper due to the difficulty, I also believe that my experiences with "out of body" states has changed me just as much if not moreso than my *beliefs established before. Once you cross that threshold, of experiencing another reality that is just as crisp and real as the physical by inducing it just by will, not with drugs or through dreams, you cant look at this life the same.
Who says this is the reality? For me I cant take anything here seriously. All I have left is to aid others to experience it as well. I am thinking that through further exploration I will find that this reality is the illusion. If you havent escaped this reality yet, imagine laying in your bed and suddenly you are standing in the parking lot of a gas station a mile from your house, glancing about, perfectly aware of your surroundings and YOU CANT TELL THE TWO REALITIES APART. You can move about, touching objects, speaking aloud, all sensory input matching your waking reality exactly to a tee. It gets to the point that your mind questions its validity so highly that you are forced to reenter your physical existence, sitting up in bed and are completely blown away. This is just one of my recent experiences. Clinically I would be put in a straight jacket and a padded cell, pumped full of drugs and sedated. Maybe you agree with this. I am going to stop here again and I hope to get feedback from the original poster.
* = words that I am forced to use because there isnt a word to explain what they are to me.
Thank you all very much for your replies. it seems as if you are having a bit of trouble in understanding what it is that i am saying. and i do not blame you at all. i find myself very hard to understand
But maybe it is because the thing that i am asking is very very simple, and i have perhaps made the question in a a too confusing way.
well, firstly can we agree that if somebody tells that you are selfish, that is a bad thing. nobody wants to be selfish, and i can perfectly understand that.
I guess my statement is: everything that makes you glad by helping others is selfish, because that it makes you feel good.
If somebody wants to object then i guess this is where you do it!
That "good-feeling" must come from somewhere right? there is a reason why a action makes you feel good. there is some thought passing through you head that tells you, from what you know, that you did a good thing and that induces the good feeling.
a brilliant example of that is what you wrote Ryu-Kanjin
QuoteOne of the greatest memories i have is the day i went to the Denver museum of art. When i was walking in, i seen this elderly man, he was pulling a oxygen tank behind him and was at least 80 years old. I noticed no one was even looking at the man so i held the doors open and helped him out. He smiled at me the whole time, just remembering that smile worms my heart.
It made you feel good, and i it should, because the effect of your action made the old man pass untroubled through the door, and that is good. but would your hearth has been as warm if it was the guy standing next to you that had helped the old man? i guess not, the reason why your hearth felt warm was not because of the fact that the man could go through the door, but because YOU enabled him to do so, it is YOU that could harvest the potential credit for that.
let me say that if it actually does warm you hearth to see other people do good things to others in the same way it does when you do good things to others. then you have evolved above my imagination and i will not question your actions.
i hope that you can see what i mean because this is what i would define as selfish, even though you might have only have been willing to recognize the good feeling as being the result of helping the old man only, not that it was YOU that helped him.
i am not trying to put you down or anything, i am just trying to make you see the true face of your corrupted actions.... lol :)
XenXheng
QuoteI'm confused... please explain to me how doing something for yourself is a problem. And what would be the truly "good" thing to do in its stead?
Chris
i guess that the opposite thing of selfishness then would have been to kick the old man and feel really bad about it afterwards, that would clearly not make you feel good about yourself, and i do see how this does not really resonate with the term "unselfishness". i hope that you can see that i myself have great problems in finding the recipe of doing true good.
and i guess i can attack all of your actions in this way.
Knucklebrain:
Quote
I will open a spiritual center where I teach people how to open their eyes. Teach people how to be themselves and not your average clone. I look at all the teenagers nowadays. They all wear ripped jeans or Dickies, tshirt, messy hair and trucker hat. There is no individualism. There is no hope. The younger crowd has a bad bad outlook on the future. Not there is anything wrong with Dickies and trucker hats, but I can't tell one from the other.
well, if your goal is to enlighten people then i guess that you will feel as good about it when your neighbour opens HIS center and teaches people the things that you would have taught? no? i thought not.
I guess that what matters most to you is that YOU do it, that you somehow make people aware of you and remember you. and if that is just remotely true, then will it not be fair to define that as selfish?
Knightlight, i found very much meaning in what you wrote about that the chair and that it in reality does not exist.
"Chair" is as you write a term created by humans, there is no such thing as a universal true description of a chair, it just something we have called this thing made by by nails and wood put together in a special form. and i can also follow you in that ""we are" is also a human created term, and also not an universal law.
i guess that if you continue that line you can say that "selfish" does not exist. well perhaps you are right if you consider selfishness to be like the chair - created by humans and therefore not "true" or not existing. well we can go beyond the label and look at the action itself just like you ended up splitting the chair into atoms. selfishness does not exist only actions, and that leads us further on to define whether these actions are good and bad. and since good and bad are also terms made up by humans describing how we experience various of actions on our body, then i guess we can't make up if the actions are good or bad because those terms are false, and therefore we cannot define selfishness and therefore it does not exist.
well, this only applies when we try to find ultimate truths, beyond the humans. well i am not trying to do that. i am choosing to stay narrow-minded and hold on to these terms as selfishness and good and bad even though they are build on a non-existing foundation.
i am just trying to explain to you what it is that i see here and now, and what i have come to realize about it. well the theory that nothing really exists is indeed intriguing, but since that i find myself to exist here in this world of non-existence i would like to discuss this non existence before i cast it away.
now i think that I am rambling... lol
I guess that if you are unselfish, i will never know it because the moment you come and try to defend your unselfishness, you become selfish. "look at me, i am very unselfish, and i will even write a book about it to SHOW you how unselfish i am bla bla bla!!!"
from what i see, the truly unselfish man is the one that is able to sit all alone and feel good about the good that everybody ells does and not say it.
well fire up your gear and flame me already :)
EDIT: it does not help to say things twice lol....
By your definition, anything that has any possibility of making you happy is selfishness. If you want to live a miserable life then go ahead, but it doesn't make sense.
If you do something good and feel happy about it, that encourages the tendency to do more things like it in the future. It is the same way with seeing someone else do something good and being happy about it. Both a good action and the feeling of happiness are causes of good karma. It is even possible to have more good karma from someone else's good action than that person earned through the particular action.
Quote from: Seeker of MatterI guess my statement is: everything that makes you glad by helping others is selfish, because that it makes you feel good.
If somebody wants to object then i guess this is where you do it!
That "good-feeling" must come from somewhere right? there is a reason why a action makes you feel good. there is some thought passing through you head that tells you, from what you know, that you did a good thing and that induces the good feeling.
a brilliant example of that is what you wrote Ryu-Kanjin
QuoteOne of the greatest memories i have is the day i went to the Denver museum of art. When i was walking in, i seen this elderly man, he was pulling a oxygen tank behind him and was at least 80 years old. I noticed no one was even looking at the man so i held the doors open and helped him out. He smiled at me the whole time, just remembering that smile worms my heart.
It made you feel good, and i it should, because the effect of your action made the old man pass untroubled through the door, and that is good. but would your hearth has been as warm if it was the guy standing next to you that had helped the old man? i guess not, the reason why your hearth felt warm was not because of the fact that the man could go through the door, but because YOU enabled him to do so, it is YOU that could harvest the potential credit for that.
let me say that if it actually does warm you hearth to see other people do good things to others in the same way it does when you do good things to others. then you have evolved above my imagination and i will not question your actions.
i hope that you can see what i mean because this is what i would define as selfish, even though you might have only have been willing to recognize the good feeling as being the result of helping the old man only, not that it was YOU that helped him.
i am not trying to put you down or anything, i am just trying to make you see the true face of your corrupted actions.... lol :)
I understand what your saying Seeker, and I'm having trouble explaining it , so I'm just going to put it plainly.
My actions are not the only the that warms my heart like the grin from the old man did. I also get that feeling when i see birds flying above my head, children playing and laughing, watching the tree in our yard and the birds that rest in it, our cats enjoying a good petting, and so many more. Its not just my actions that make me feel like that, its everything around me that does it as well
Again, its really hard to explain ^^;
I do understand why you are questioning why we do this, its all to human to want to understand. I'm constantly asking questions, whether it be about the actions of the ones around me, or how something works, I'm a scientist at hart :lol:
QuoteI understand what your saying Seeker, and I'm having trouble explaining it , so I'm just going to put it plainly.
My actions are not the only the that warms my heart like the grin from the old man did. I also get that feeling when i see birds flying above my head, children playing and laughing, watching the tree in our yard and the birds that rest in it, our cats enjoying a good petting, and so many more. Its not just my actions that make me feel like that, its everything around me that does it as well
Again, its really hard to explain ^^;
I do understand why you are questioning why we do this, its all to human to want to understand. I'm constantly asking questions, whether it be about the actions of the ones around me, or how something works, I'm a scientist at hart Laughing
well thank you for being understanding. it is not because i suddenly hate everybody and that i want to say that the human race is doomed (i guess you could get that impression). the thing about selfishness is not something that i have been working my entire life trying to prove. it was just a thought that some day passed through my head for no reason.
well it is great that you say you understand, that makes me feel a little less like the odd one out
And what greatly lifts my spirit is the things you say that make you happy, like children playing and laughing. i hope that i some day will learn to see the beauty in that too and be happy just because of that. i find happiness hard do achieve when you have critical mind. so when you say that you too are a scientist at hart, and that you manages to stay happy anyway, well that is impressive :)
Quotewell, this only applies when we try to find ultimate truths, beyond the humans. well i am not trying to do that. i am choosing to stay narrow-minded and hold on to these terms as selfishness and good and bad even though they are build on a non-existing foundation.
oh... :lol: nevermind. I guess when I come to these forums I try to remain as close to ultimate truths as I can, and try to even during normal life. Its a struggle for me to really take any view of these human terms other than a light hearted usage simply to get by in society. I didnt take anything you said negatively really, there where no insults thrown or you didnt say my view where wrong, so its all good.
why does everything has to have a value attached to it?
GOD wants you to be happy, dear neighbour ;)
Quote from: knightlightQuotewell, this only applies when we try to find ultimate truths, beyond the humans. well i am not trying to do that. i am choosing to stay narrow-minded and hold on to these terms as selfishness and good and bad even though they are build on a non-existing foundation.
oh... :lol: nevermind. I guess when I come to these forums I try to remain as close to ultimate truths as I can, and try to even during normal life. Its a struggle for me to really take any view of these human terms other than a light hearted usage simply to get by in society. I didnt take anything you said negatively really, there where no insults thrown or you didnt say my view where wrong, so its all good.
hehe, i guess what that quote says is that i am an idiot huh ;)
I like philosophy as well, but i find that my mind travels too far out and that i really need my mind to be focused here on earth, on gravity and mass and 3D and the society in general. i am living here, my body is living here and it is bound to the rules of this world, so i cannot just escape it while my body is still alive. i guess than when you are dead and you no longer have a physical body to take care of, then you can philosophize all that you want. but doing it here simply creates a nasty duality, well that is my experience.
enlighten me :)
Seeker of Matter, the problem you are facing is very simple. Every time you are feeling discomfort, it is because you are resisting something. Learn to accept what is instead of resisting it. You don't have to like it; you just have to acknowledge what is before you can get a grasp on it to change it. Maybe you will even find that it is not worth the effort to change or that it doesn't really need to change. The important thing is that your resistance is only making you suffer and there is nothing to gain from sufferring.
hahaha no it doesnt make you an idiot, and i guess you can either take your approach or mine, depending on if you want to be practical or not. Your take on it is probably the smart thing to do, but as I said before, I have experienced what it is to exist outside of this reality and its hard to be sure what to think now! If I will indeed cross over to this chaotic mode of existance upon physical death then I need to not only get used to it, but erase my preconcieved misconceptions and unlearn what I have learned. I am quiet frankly bored of this existance and cant wait to cross over. I just want to be prepared for the transition is all. I dont want to be laying on my death bed crying out for my loved ones, staying attatched to this existance, begging for forgiveness and be devoid of ultimate truths. I want to simply say "finally... catch you folks on the flip side" and just slip away with a smile. Through my experience I have come to the conclusion that the only truely great thing about this stage of existance is that it is so stable, mundane, and organized. The "astral" is wildly unpredictable and so easily manipulated both consiously and subconsiously that it can be a bit annoying. Atleast I can wake up in the morning and count on the fact that my life will be routine and humdrum 99 out of 100 days. It is a blessing.
Enlighten yourself! :wink:
Quote from: TomSeeker of Matter, the problem you are facing is very simple. Every time you are feeling discomfort, it is because you are resisting something. Learn to accept what is instead of resisting it. You don't have to like it; you just have to acknowledge what is before you can get a grasp on it to change it. Maybe you will even find that it is not worth the effort to change or that it doesn't really need to change. The important thing is that your resistance is only making you suffer and there is nothing to gain from sufferring.
I am not quite sure what it is that you think i am resisting? is it happiness? help me out here, what you are writing does sound logical to me :)
speaking of logic
Quote from: KnightlightThrough my experience I have come to the conclusion that the only truely great thing about this stage of existance is that it is so stable, mundane, and organized. The "astral" is wildly unpredictable and so easily manipulated both consiously and subconsiously that it can be a bit annoying. Atleast I can wake up in the morning and count on the fact that my life will be routine and humdrum 99 out of 100 days. It is a blessing.
I have come to think about if the physical world and the astral world are two extremes of the same spectre? both too much. the physical plane is too dense too heavy and unchangeable, it limits your thoughts and mind because of the unbendable laws of the physical. Whereas the astral is (from what i have read, and from what you just wrote:)) too airy and changeable. what you think becomes reality, meaning that you could be a potential god, also meaning that you could be absolutely insane and image great harm on the beings in the astral and that would just happen.
this is just like the brain. it has a right part which controls imagination and creativity and so and a left part which controls the logics. persons relying totally on either side are "false" so to speak. no part of the brain is sufficient in it self, but both sides working cooperatively will give the best results.
are we perhaps supposed to learn the logics here on earth because that we otherwise would just flow away in a totally uncontrollable stream of feelings in the astral?
we must be here for some reason, why would we be here if this was all useless? i think that we must embrace the logics here, and take them with us in the astral so that we will become more..... reasonable there :)
i sometimes become a little scared, mostly because it seems as if the afterlife has lost its mystics, and by that also its hope. people say that when we die, we go to the astral, and there we can go to one of the 7(?) planes according to our vibrations and that is it!!!. it all seems laid out.
i am quite mad because you have taken away my dream of travelling up to god when i die, who is a old friendly man with a huge beard, and there are fluffy skies all over, and angels with wings and harmonic sounds and everything is well, all will become clear to you and you will be happy all the time BAM!!!!! dream breaks, "you don't go there you stupid moron, you go to the astral planes, and i have a map of them here, and according to your vibrations, well it seams you will be spending some time in the lower astral realms, have a nice stay in torture land, and watch out for soul eating demons while you are at it, because if you think negative thoughts, they will come, and don't be scared either because of you are, then they will also come!!"
then when i am in the astral planes, i will be dreaming of another place when i die in the astral.... It will all go around in circles!!!!
have you ever thought about that this might just be a astral world that has been de-mystified?
now i am making no sense again.....
comments?
Hey Seeker,
Funny, but I had this exact same conversation with an atheist friend of mine a few years ago! Usually he always sticks to his guns and stubbornly never shuts up until he's sure you've given up. However, this time, and this time only, I made HIM think for a change about this concept of all actions being selfish. Maybe you'll like it, too:
"If an atheist pushes a child out of the road seconds before the child dies, knowing full well they will die in the process, that is unselfish."
How's that?
Thanks for an interesting read in the post,
Chris
hahahah even the 7 layers thing is too mystical for me. If you believe you will go up to god and see him, you will, dont worry. Belief plays a huge part. If you honestly believe you will go up to heaven and meet face to face with God himself, in all his cherubic love and power, than you will. You can experience it now. If I tried hard enough I could experience it tonight. I dont want to take your dream away, but again, im on a bit of a different path than you.
All the people who say when you die you will spend time in a lower plane, than move up or separate it into different sections obviously havent experienced it. I would urge you, if there was a word more urgent than urge I would use it, urge you to explore the astral. Dedicate your life to it. It wont take that long, i promise! :lol: If you set out to experience it and honestly put forth effort you will experience it. Believe in it with your soul and persue it to your highest abilities.
I would go to Astral FAQ's and look at Franks "what is phasing and how do i do it" thread, and also buy Astral Dynamics by robert bruce. Franks approach doesnt even involve energy work or anything remotely mystical, and Robert Bruces approach is a bit more esoteric, but I experienced my first astral projection after reading his book and following his advice. Once you enter the astral, your life will change. It is honestly 100% mind blowing. Have you ever read a book or watched a movie that just took your breath away and made you say "wow! That was intense!" You havent seen nothin' yet my friend. With only your greatest good in mind I pray you take my advice.
Quote from: XenXhengHey Seeker,
Funny, but I had this exact same conversation with an atheist friend of mine a few years ago! Usually he always sticks to his guns and stubbornly never shuts up until he's sure you've given up. However, this time, and this time only, I made HIM think for a change about this concept of all actions being selfish. Maybe you'll like it, too:
"If an atheist pushes a child out of the road seconds before the child dies, knowing full well they will die in the process, that is unselfish."
How's that?
Thanks for an interesting read in the post,
Chris
Yes i think that would be a very unselfish thing to do, if i understand it right!
Quote"If an atheist pushes a child out of the road seconds before the child dies, knowing full well they will die in the process, that is unselfish."
do you by "out off the road" mean that they are on a bridge or something? and by "they" are you referring to both the child and the atheist or just children in general?
perhaps i do not understand it right, lol
Quote from: KnightlightOnce you enter the astral, your life will change. It is honestly 100% mind blowing. Have you ever read a book or watched a movie that just took your breath away and made you say "wow! That was intense!" You havent seen nothin' yet my friend. With only your greatest good in mind I pray you take my advice.
I have tried, you must believe me i have!!! but after hours of just lying down relaxing and visualizing robes and ladders and balloons levitating, i don't feel anything. i can't even get to the state of vibrations!! i have never ever even felt vibrations.... i want astral project, but either i just can't or ells i am doing something terribly wrong!
i have even tried "The Gateway Experience", but that was no go either. i also find that i cannot do what the voice says (speaking of the voice, is that Robert Monroe himself speaking?). i definitely have a problem going from focus 10 to focus 12. "Feel your awareness expanding" how the %¤#¤%¤# can i make my awareness expand just like that? it gets frustrating. it is like telling you to get smarter "now you feel your IQ raising"
Perhaps it is because i am not as overly excited about it as i was a year ago when i first read about it not that i was able to do anything back then either....
when i get some money, i will definitely buy Robert's book!! i have been willing to for quite some time, but i cannot buy it in any Danish stores, so i have to order in from amazon, and then i have to pay for delivery and tax and so on, so it gets expensive!
Hey Seeker, it is a very good idea to get Roberts book, it will help you a lot.
Iv read almost everything but the astral projection info. I will get into that when i have time to do it -_-.
When you do energy work, do all the steps slowly and carefully, or you will do something wrong or skip things completely. Also, when you start to do something, don't expect to do anything, don't get excited and loose your focus, and be as relaxed as possible. Basically, focus on what your doing and nothing els, brush your stray thoughts aside, if your body is relaxed, you wont need to move or itch lol so it will allow you to focus completely :wink:
Now that i think of it.....its a meditation :shock:
Dude, iv been meditating all this time and didn't know it lmao
its a very involved and time consuming activity. It took me about 3 months of practice every night for my first success, and ive been having lucid dreams my whole life and can remember my dreams easily, and dream almost every night, sometimes up to 3 times a night. I understand your frustration, but practice makes perfect. Its more about relaxation and I would avoid the CD's/tapes all together if they frustrate you so much. Relax, and just let go, and if all else fails just take a nap and try again some other time.
Quotedo you by "out off the road" mean that they are on a bridge or something? and by "they" are you referring to both the child and the atheist or just children in general?
perhaps i do not understand it right, lol
Probably because I can't type and left too much out... D'oh!
"If an atheist sees a truck barreling down on a child in the road, and pushes the kid out of the way knowing full well they will die in the process, that is selfless."
By the way, I know how frustrated you might be about the astral projection process. I've tried it the past few days, trying to get myself back into the habit, and no amount of white light, balloons, elevators, ropes or water flowing through the body is leading anywhere besides slightly increased dream clarity.
Of course, that is the first step on the way there for me, and what happened before I projected five or so years ago. It's just that this is one of those things that suddenly jumps you one day when you succeed, annoying as that is.
Lifting weights: Lift 10 pounds today, 12 pounds tomorrow, 20 pounds next week, 100 pounds three months from now.
Measurable success.
Astral projection: Fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, succeed.
Surprising success!
Chris
One of my teachers told me this variation on a common expression: "There's a seeker born every minute". I thought he was just enjoying a joke at my expense. He was, but he had a good point.
When the mind is making something too complicated, take a break from it by relaxing and paying attention to the body for a while. No matter how bad your health is, if you look for it you can find some part of you which feels good or at minimum neutral. Focus on these neutral or positive feelings and they will expand slowly at first. You can even help them to expand to cover the entire body. I have used this method to stop the pain from the flu and from sinus infection after taking pills like tylenol or aspirin made no difference. The point is that if you trust your body and work with it you can give your mind a rest. When you go back to working with your problem, it will not be from the same "stuck" perspective. Just keep in mind that this is not an immediate cure. It could take days or weeks or months before you can return to working with your problem, if you have been struggling too long and you need the rest.
Quote from: XenXhengQuotedo you by "out off the road" mean that they are on a bridge or something? and by "they" are you referring to both the child and the atheist or just children in general?
perhaps i do not understand it right, lol
Probably because I can't type and left too much out... D'oh!
"If an atheist sees a truck barreling down on a child in the road, and pushes the kid out of the way knowing full well they will die in the process, that is selfless."
By the way, I know how frustrated you might be about the astral projection process. I've tried it the past few days, trying to get myself back into the habit, and no amount of white light, balloons, elevators, ropes or water flowing through the body is leading anywhere besides slightly increased dream clarity.
Of course, that is the first step on the way there for me, and what happened before I projected five or so years ago. It's just that this is one of those things that suddenly jumps you one day when you succeed, annoying as that is.
Lifting weights: Lift 10 pounds today, 12 pounds tomorrow, 20 pounds next week, 100 pounds three months from now.
Measurable success.
Astral projection: Fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, succeed.
Surprising success!
Chris
Yes it does make more sense now, but as far as i can see the fact that the atheist knows that they will both die in the process makes the action unselfish, but i would think of as the atheist just being plainly stupid... he will die and the boy will die that is stupid! perhaps stupid people are the only ones who are truly unselfish, interesting!
Well it seems that some people just have a natural ability to astral project, and others who are totally abandenend by that skill. i think that i am one of those people.
i do not even think that i am supposed to "AP", but then again, i don't think that there is anything that i am supposed to, not that i am aware of at least....
i do remember one time though. i must have been about 6 years old. i had just woken up early in the morning. i decided to go back to sleep because i was still tired. then i remember dreaming, not very clearly, but i remember speaking to this man and suddenly i became aware of that i was in a dream so i took him by the shoulders and shook him violently while i was shouting "it is just a dream, you are in a dream, it is just a dream" then i remember telling myself to wake up, and it was actually a bit difficult!! but i woke up and had some breakfast and never told anyone about.... before now :O
but that was the only time! nothing "mysterious" has ever happened to me. apart from that i have never ever experienced anything of the things discussed here, but i believe in it anyway, at least a little i see no reason why not to.
but i guess that i won't be having much of a change AP'ing in the near future, i just watched "The Exorcist" from 1972 and D@MN it is scary and it made me wonder, if there is such a thing as "God" or ones Higher Self or whatever it is called, would it not be logical if there was a absolute counterpart to that, something totally opposite? perhaps not an entity, but at least something very evil :O
stupid movie! i suppose i should have kicked myself as rented "Exorcist - The Beginning" now i am totally convinced of the existence of an ultimate evil entity. But i somehow like to get scared, i can't help it, it is scary.....
anyway i like your view on problems and how to deal with them Tom. But i do not think it will work on me.
in my way of thinking all problems require a amount of pain to resist in order to deal with them. at least problems here in the physical world.
i have come to that conclusion because I consider myself to have low pain resistance! i do not like to try too hard to do something i guess that this is the due to the low pain tolerance, i also think this is tied to motivation. well let me first come with my view on motivation then. if some i you have read my previous post "how to do something without a reason" i talk about that i have difficulty in motivation myself. i think that is because that motivation in it self a "pain-barrier-overcoming". at least it involves overcoming a pain barrier whether that barrier is physical or mental. pain is pain! i actually think it is a form of pain that prevents me from doing stuff(like doing my homework or taking a run or whatever). and motivation is the thing that push you into that pain which holds the task you are going to perform. and as i see it, the pain involved with doing something is always the same, it is just a matter of how pain resistant YOU are, as to why i can do many things without any trouble is because i have become immune to that pain (like when i decide to move myself somewhere, i just do it, because whatever small amount of pain required to resist or overcome in order to that does not affect me). lol i am sounding like a sick sadomasochist huh?
well it is just a theory that seems to apply from MY point of view to the aspects of "doing", maybe you see it from somewhere ells, and i know i am going to get the "wtf are you talking about you freak?" hmm, i guess that would be something to expect. well i will try to explain again then :)
This has nothing to do with me loving pain. and do not think about the pain you get when you fall or burn yourself. i actually don't really know what to call it, so i thought that it had to be some sort of "pain". well what do you call the thing that makes you not want to do something, there must be some sort of obstacle otherwise i would have done much of what i want now!! hmm perhaps it is a fear, a fear for what? for pain maybe? therefore i stick to the pain concept
well, my experience is that if i do not keep on trying to solve a problem, i do not get i solved. that might be because my way of doing things differs much form the way that you do things. but again i like your idea, but i have just experiences that say something ells.
EDIT: corrected the most severe errors in my post :)
Learning to relax and let go is the most difficult thing you can attempt. I can understand why you don't think you can do it.
Quote from: TomHave you considered regular exercise programs like lifting weights? That has got to be the stupidest thing anyone can do.
I don't feel like reading this whole topic right now, so I don't know if anyone said this already, but I really think your reply is actually the most stupidest post I've read so far.
Lifting weights, without exaggerating ofcourse, is actually very good for your muscles and bones. Especially because modern man is not living a physically active life. Working with weights is a good compensation.
Please educate yourself before making these kind of statements: muscles & bones SCREAM for some exercise!
Congratulations on missing my point: you do not lift weights in order to get good at lifting them and you do not do it because the weights need a change of scenery. It is the same with energy work. I could also say that the point of learning a musical instrument is to play songs and it would not make sense to say that music is only playing the scales.
Tom, you make a great deal of sense!
Seeker, I think I know where you're coming from when you say virtually everything is selfish. But I think you misunderstand where selfishness becomes a bad thing. Selfishness is a living organism's urge to survive. Plants are selfish -- invasive grass chokes out less competitive plants. The grass doesn't care about the well being of other plants. That's selfish. Does the grass "sin" in its unadulterated selfishness? I don't know. Selfishly, that's not my problem. :lol:
But humans think, not merely react, and therefore choose their level of selfishness. That creates "sin." (my own opinion) If it gives me pleasure to run a currycomb over a horse that's losing its winter hair, that selfishiness is not "bad"! And if, by enjoying the act of currying the horse, I also give pleasure to the horse, then it's "good" -- at least to the horse. :wink: What I'm trying to say is the sin is not in being selfish, it's in how we handle that emotion, the choices we make.
You may want to consider whether you are just overthinking the situation. Truth is more likely to be simple than complex, in this girl's opinion. :) And my simple solution to a crisis of the conscious: If it harms no living thing, it's okay; if it brings pleasure to other living beings, then it's even better!
QuoteAnd what greatly lifts my spirit is the things you say that make you happy, like children playing and laughing. i hope that i some day will learn to see the beauty in that too and be happy just because of that. i find happiness hard do achieve when you have critical mind. so when you say that you too are a scientist at hart, and that you manages to stay happy anyway, well that is impressive.
Have you never stood outside on a blustery day, watching roiling clouds shift from silver to gray, with the wind trying to pick you up and take you with it, and never felt your spirits lift?! Have you never had a dog dance enthusiastically around you when you set down its food, then felt a smile through your whole body as that friend dives into her dinner?! Can you think of nothing that, just for the pure pleasure of it, makes you feel good?! If that is true, you sincerely have my pity, for you must be supremely unhappy.
Quotei have even tried "The Gateway Experience", but that was no go either. i also find that i cannot do what the voice says (speaking of the voice, is that Robert Monroe himself speaking?). i definitely have a problem going from focus 10 to focus 12. "Feel your awareness expanding" how the %¤#¤%¤# can i make my awareness expand just like that? it gets frustrating. it is like telling you to get smarter "now you feel your IQ raising"
Here I can totally understand your frustration. Enough things have happened to me to convince me of the reality of out of body experiences and telepathy. (I won't repeat them here, no need to bore you). But I, too, am stuck with the inability to achieve anything "on command." All I can say is to just keep plugging.
According to all the world's mystical tradtions, esoteric energy work in one form or another is absolutely required in order to evolve. After all, what is the simplest, most basic definition of energy? The capacity to do work. Not the capacity to be happy or the capacity to be successful, powerful, etc,. but the capacity to do work. Saying that you have more energy is simply saying that you have more capacity to do work. Whether you actually do the work is another matter, but you have the capacity. This is where esoteric energy has its place of importance in remote viewing, astral travel, paranormal phenomina, etc. The more energy you have, the more capacity you have to do these things.
Quote from: greatoutdoorsSeeker, I think I know where you're coming from when you say virtually everything is selfish. But I think you misunderstand where selfishness becomes a bad thing. Selfishness is a living organism's urge to survive. Plants are selfish -- invasive grass chokes out less competitive plants. The grass doesn't care about the well being of other plants. That's selfish. Does the grass "sin" in its unadulterated selfishness? I don't know. Selfishly, that's not my problem.
I guess that you might be right.... Very right actually! I guess that it is because that I am frustrated with the fact I am not able to find any so called "ultimate truths" to hold on to. What is selfishness and when does it become bad. I guess I could also ask when a hole is a hole? Is it when it has a depth of 30 centimetres and a diameter of 1 meter? Or must it be at the size of a cup, or a meteor crash? Nobody really knows when a hole is a hole and we will never find an answer to that question. So the way that I see it, in order for me to live with it, I might have to go with Knighlight's solution: there is no hole. Or to be more relevant, there is no such thing as selfishness, only ways to survive, which sometimes must include the sacrificing of other things in order to insure your own survival. like your said greatoutdoors. Like when the grass chokes the weaker plants though it cannot be called selfish, that wouldn't be fair to grass (lol). The grass was here long before us and our definitions of what is what, and no such thing as selfish exists for the grass, nor does the grass exist, nothing is, that is all an illusion, and illusion needed for man to better "understand" the world. Hmmm I guess you were right Knightlight... or ells it is just me getting carried away by the moment and R.E.M. :) I might snap out of it in a moment!
But if nothing exists, what is the point of trying to understand anything. The concept of understanding must also be false, as understanding is a measure to understand the labels and definitions, then it is not needed. Hmm
But then what about happiness, does that also not exist? Is happiness not just also a definition? Then if I now realise that noting is. What is then the thing that I, in confusion, am banging my head into? It feels real enough... hmm well, I guess I better study Buddhism some more ;)
QuoteHave you never stood outside on a blustery day, watching roiling clouds shift from silver to gray, with the wind trying to pick you up and take you with it, and never felt your spirits lift?! Have you never had a dog dance enthusiastically around you when you set down its food, then felt a smile through your whole body as that friend dives into her dinner?! Can you think of nothing that, just for the pure pleasure of it, makes you feel good?! If that is true, you sincerely have my pity, for you must be supremely unhappy.
well I find that it is mostly the actors in films that seem to be happy about something like that. It is like birdsong, birdsong has never been meant to make humans happy, it is in reality just those h0rny birds trying to attract a mate, it is actually a competition where the h0rniest bird wins lol :) yeah you must flame me for writing that, I deserve it :)
Well if I must seem ignorant again I think that the reason why such things as a cool breeze has a good effect on humans in because of what we connect with it. the wind will make us happy because it has a nice effect on our body and the brain released chemicals that make you happy, okay? Well again this is not an ultimate truth. The wind is not good in it self, it is what we connect with it that might be, but mostly because of the effect it has on our
body, yes read that sentence again!!! (I think that this is important so please follow me on this one!). well what if when the Jews were shot by the Nazis during 2nd World War there was this same cool wind every time the Nazis were coming, then the Jews would fear that wind like nothing ells!
I guess that is why I do not really think so much about a cool wind, it does not really mean anything to me so I do not get overly exited when it is windy, actually... I get sick when it is VERY windy. The last time we had a nasty storm over Denmark, I was lying in bed hallucinating with my blood boiling at 40 degrees Celsius. Not cool!
Greatoutdoors, I think that you might have many great experiences in the nature (hence the name I guess) and therefore you become happy when the nature is "alive" so to speak.
And what was my point now... uhm....
EDIT: ahh i know, don't feel pity for me because i do not find the same happiness in doing/seeing the things that you connect with happiness, it is all subjective!
the point I was trying to make wasnt that nothing exists, at first during my beginning stages of buddhist mental revolution I thought this was so as well. Things do exist, but not from their own side. There is no emotion, no pain. Everything is a label, made up of aggregates. Like I am Knightlight, but where is knightlight? is it my arm? my mind? no. I am knightlight who is made up of tissue, skin, brain matter, etc. That is made up of cells which are made up of atoms that are made up of infinitely small particles and down into things we cant even see. Therefor I am not knightlight, it is only a label. I exist, but the labels that you use to identify me arent real.
Can you see the space that seperates your arm from the air next to it? There is no gap. You are one with the air and everything around you. You are part of one gigantic living breathing existance that goes even beyond our own galaxy.
Things do exist. The labels are the illusion. Look around you. Erase your labels. Look at your monitor, but dont see it as a monitor, just see it!!! Look around you, see all that sorrounds you, and see the space that fills the area between. Both are just as solid and present. Without the space, what is solid would not exist. Now still your mind, erase your thoughts and become one with what sorrounds you. Realize that you are part of a massive existant multiverse. Makes you feel a bit small doesnt it? :wink:
I would urge you to explore buddhism, even just in a pragmatic fashion, not necessarily to have it dominate your spiritual path. I am pragmatic as well and took more away from buddhism than I could have ever wished for. I have applied it to life, released my attachments to this existance and have freedom beyond what most people can ever imagine.
Thank you very much for making that clear! I had a feeling that I was exaggerating... it is of course only the labels that do not exist, this makes the whole world seem a bit more sane.
QuoteCan you see the space that seperates your arm from the air next to it? There is no gap. You are one with the air and everything around you. You are part of one gigantic living breathing existance that goes even beyond our own galaxy.
Things do exist. The labels are the illusion. Look around you. Erase your labels. Look at your monitor, but dont see it as a monitor, just see it!!! Look around you, see all that sorrounds you, and see the space that fills the area between. Both are just as solid and present. Without the space, what is solid would not exist.
Didn't you just say that there was no space separating my arm from the air? Then what do you mean "without the space, what is solid would not exist" you just made me believe that everything was connected and there was no space..... argh, I wish my brain would connect better with it self so I would avoid this constant stream of misunderstandings.
Well thank you letting me know that things exist :)
And I might just look into Buddhism when I get some spare time! I guess it will be worth it.
Hi Seeker,
On Knightlight's comment, what he said was that you can't see the space that separates your arm from the air next to it. Just as you can't see the space that separates each and every cell of your arm. I'm getting a little off topic here, but he is saying what physicists are also beginning to discuss. 90% or more of everything in our physical world is space! Theoretically, and maybe factually, there is nothing stopping us from being able to walk through walls except our perception of solidity. I totally agree with Knightlight's thoughts, though I don't accept all of Buddism's tenants.
My examples of enjoying wind, etc. were not meant to be limiting -- and I can certainly understand you not being thrilled about something that makes you sick! :wink: My point was that you are not being, for lack of a better concept, destructively selfish, by enjoying pleasurable things. Like your birds. Of course they aren't singing for human's benefit; they have no interest in us so long as we leave them in peace. They are behaving selfishly! :lol: But it's not "selfish" of us to enjoy the singing. My rules again: it harms nothing and brings pleasure -- therefore it's on the "good" side of the ledger.
Now, as to the existence of emotions...
Consider that everything we think and feel originates from electrical (or energetic) impulses moving through our brain. Destroy the pathways those impulses travel, or take away the impulses, and you do, indeed, have nothing! So in that sense, you are correct. However, that doesn't negate the reality of the emotion! How's that for a cunnundrum! :?
A good physical example is your hand. Look at it. Move your fingers. Then consider that just a small injury to a nerve (or a local anesthetic for that matter), well above your hand, could make it impossible for you to move it, in spite of your best efforts. You are trying to understand the energy that makes us who we are, as I am. So far, I've had no success, mainly due to my own lack of commitment. But the good news is, no one else in the world understands it much better than we do. The only thing I can be certain of is that the energy that powers us is real. As to belief, I believe our energy is part and parcel of the same energy that permeates everything in the universe -- it's just being expressed as "us." What happens when we die -- does that energy dissipate into the energy sea, losing any sense of self, or does it remain aware like so many would like to think? That's a mystery we will likely never solve.
Last point -- just be able to find happiness somewhere, in something that causes no harm to other beings. I have a bretty bleak view of the world and everything in it, but still find those moments I mentioned. That's all we can count on. And if death brings a final end, that's not the worst of all possible worlds!
i've been hanging out at cassiopeia.org and reading a lot of channeled material. too much to sum up here, but you might find it interesting.
there was one thing that i found interesting that i was reading last night in reference to your question. the woman laura that does the channeling is always seeking the secrets to enlightenment (to skip steps), but the ones coming through won't give those answers. they used the analogy referring to the shift between 3rd and 4th density. they asked her where one goes after they finish 3rd grade. she answered 4th. they asked her if it was necessary for the person to know all about 4th grade in order to move up. she said no that you only have to finish all the lessons of 3rd grade to move up to 4th. they said...correct! you only have to finish your lessons HERE! of course all information should be taken with a grain of salt, but sometimes i also wonder if it's as spiritual as people make it out to be?!? that is isn't just a way of escaping and skipping 3rd density lessons.
333
now i'm reading the thread backwards! :? i'm stopping with this one quote, bcuz otherwise i fear that i'll just keep picking through and throwing my comments around out of order...and i have other things going on at this moment.
but...
QuoteMy rules again: it harms nothing and brings pleasure -- therefore it's on the "good" side of the ledger.
and please forgive me for using this as an example...it should in no way be taken PERSONALLY.
this is the sort of comment that i believe you were referring to in a sense. i feel a certain connection to your posts (more than most) and i take that as a sign that our energy is fairly similar. and reading between the lines is not so much a bad habit, as it is a sense of logic. it's funny that greatoutdoors uses the word "selfish" in reference to the birds, but then follows up with the comment above without acknowledging the same. we are all here chirping away, but more than that even...is the selfish idea of "pleasure". ("my rules" aside). :wink: it's all very silly actually, but if you read it over a few times it becomes less and less of a joke, bcuz you being to see how FIRMLY stuck people are in their heads. i actually urge you know to take some time to read over the info at cassiopeia.org. i think it might be what you're looking for. another perspective. again i'm not pushing any truth in it, but it definitely speaks for itself. i just finished reading about their perspective on love, and how loving something is (in a 6th density perspective) completely selfish.
that is something people will argue about forever.
333
see ya around pilgrim :wink:
and it's not empty "space" it's intelligent matter.
hey thanks for that reply!
Quote from: greatoutdoorsOn Knightlight's comment, what he said was that you can't see the space that separates your arm from the air next to it. Just as you can't see the space that separates each and every cell of your arm. I'm getting a little off topic here, but he is saying what physicists are also beginning to discuss. 90% or more of everything in our physical world is space! Theoretically, and maybe factually, there is nothing stopping us from being able to walk through walls except our perception of solidity. I totally agree with Knightlight's thoughts, though I don't accept all of Buddism's tenants.
well if the thing is that i cannot
see the space seperating my arm from the air, then that is really just a problem with my eyes, if the truth is that every cell really is seperated how can all then be one, which was the main statement right?
QuoteNow, as to the existence of emotions...
Consider that everything we think and feel originates from electrical (or energetic) impulses moving through our brain. Destroy the pathways those impulses travel, or take away the impulses, and you do, indeed, have nothing! So in that sense, you are correct. However, that doesn't negate the reality of the emotion! How's that for a cunnundrum!
That is exactly my thought too. Everything that we know or can is due to those 5 physical senses we have, well if we cut the nerves to those, then nothing would exist..... at least not to the person. This has also made me wonder about something ells.
We like to think that we have some sort of "higher purpose" with our lives. At least we cannot seem to be satisfied with just being alive, as most of the other animals of the planet can. I just wonder, is the a unfortunate side effect of our brain? Our brain is the thing that has made us become the dominating species on this planet. We can use our physical world better than other animals because of the creative ways of our brain, I guess it is our ability to ask "what if" that has driven us so far – what if we now rubbed this piece of wood against another piece of wood, that will create heat..... BANG fire was created. Well what if (hehe you see ;)) this has just backfired at us? what if this search for meaning is the false outcome of our intelligence? Suddenly survival was no longer a problem for us so we made up all these terms of "higher purpose" and "search for truth" and so on.
Well again, Knightlight :), those things are just labels, and I really cannot see anything beyond those labels. "higher purpose" is not build by atoms, it is not build by anything, it is mere idea, it is just a label floating like a piece of wood in a false ocean that we ourselves have created.
If there was such a thing as "higher purpose" would it not be weird if only the smart ones could find it? What about all the animals not thinking those thoughts, are they then doomed?
Well I guess I went a bit off topic there but that seems to be quite normal in this thread :)
Hmm I am quite dizzy in my head. I don't think that I have ever tried to think so much before :shock:
I think I will take run now, I need to close down my mind for a while and digest the new knowledge. That shouldn't prevent you from posting though :)
okay i really am stopping this time (i'm almost positive) :roll:
hate to use the poor girl again as an example but...
QuoteIf it harms no living thing, it's okay; if it brings pleasure to other living beings, then it's even better!
THAT'S ONLY 1/2 RIGHT.
harm no living thing means you're not playing to either side, but...bringing "pleasure" makes is it BETTER??? sorry...that makes it selfish. who are really pleasing??? you have absolutely no idea how the horse feels. you can assume bcuz you may like being brushed that the horse enjoys it as well, but you don't know this to be fact. not only are you transferring what you "believe" onto the horse, but you are doing it bcuz it brings you a sense of pleasure...nothing more! kinda of double negative in a weird, twisted sense.
i know i'll get some feedback on all this!!!
should be interesting
333
Pleasure and happiness are not created. They do not come from external sources. The problem is that there are so many ways of covering them up. If you want to be happy, stop creating misery.
Hello Souljah333,
Quote from: Souljah333i've been hanging out at cassiopeia.org and reading a lot of channeled material. too much to sum up here, but you might find it interesting.
there was one thing that i found interesting that i was reading last night in reference to your question. the woman laura that does the channeling is always seeking the secrets to enlightenment (to skip steps), but the ones coming through won't give those answers. they used the analogy referring to the shift between 3rd and 4th density. they asked her where one goes after they finish 3rd grade. she answered 4th. they asked her if it was necessary for the person to know all about 4th grade in order to move up. she said no that you only have to finish all the lessons of 3rd grade to move up to 4th. they said...correct! you only have to finish your lessons HERE! of course all information should be taken with a grain of salt, but sometimes i also wonder if it's as spiritual as people make it out to be?!? that is isn't just a way of escaping and skipping 3rd density lessons.
333
First of all I have edited the first half of your post as being in violation of our AUP in terms of profanity and disrespect.
Secondly, always be extremely wary of channeled sources.
The vast majority of channelings are with people in the Astral who are catually no different to us except for the fact they are non-physical. They usually have no more true knowledge and often have less, depending on their own evolution. The danger is channeling lower level Astral beings who will claim to be anyone that might appeal to the channeler, very often Archangels :)
Of course the people in the Astral are for the most part very well meaning, and provide a very valuable service in proving the truth about life after the death of the physical body. But all of these things must be kept in context. We progress to the 4th density when the physical body expires. The level depends on the level of perfection and therefore vibration of the Astra-Mental bodies, not simply on how much you know.
Best regards,
Adrian.
In response to the first post on the first page. I dont heavily study NEW or energy work, but I do read up a little on it and kinda do my own exercises. I practice channeling energy, telekinesis junk like that. I mostly work on the combining psi enegy to improve physical ability.
I honestly dont know why I do it. It just seems natural to me. And also its very fun. Imagine if you could jup 40 feet into the air and land without harm. Or run so fast that you can run on walls. Imagine how fun that would be to do all the things you imagined as a kid. I cant do none of that yet but im learning. But I really dont know what drove me to discover psi ablities or why I havnt given up on them yet.
dear Adrian,
how nice to hear from you. don't get the pleasure often. i had thought i made it fairly clear that it shouldn't be taken as truth, just information. as this forum itself should also be viewed...all information actually. i guess i shouldn't give people the benefit of the doubt where these terrible, dangerous things are concerned. that was thoughtless of me...i guess.
still confused with the first section of the post you felt necessary to edit. i was sure that the program edited out profanity?!? since you took the time to "correct" it...actually to delete it...maybe you would also take the time to point out what part exactly was rule breaking?!?
sincerely 333
actually i've read through the AUP once again, and edit the deleted portion of my post, and will attempt to post it again here.
Quote
hey sweetie...haven't talked in a while. didn't read through the entire thread, but i think i sense what you're after. there is depth to the question that shows you are well balanced...you don't need another distraction, or something else that sucks up your time and energy as another means of inflating your ego, etc. it is true that a lot of people are picking it up for this reason. the "new age" fluffy trend that puts them in some "special" standing. i see people drinking bottled water and i get the same sick knot in my stomach...that they actually believe that will cut the mustard (sotospeak). that they're making some contribution, and doing yoga, or meditating, and buying organic is suppose to make up for all the other lazy and selfish areas in their life. there is something to pushing your own envelope, pushing on the walls of this limited existence...that could very well be a trance of some sort, but yes you have to remain vigil and constantly aware of falling into another trap in the process of getting out of the one you're in. they're all built so very close together for a reason!
i am assuming that you felt it was in some way abusive to the general group of sudo-spiritualists, but since i don't feel that we have any of those here...i thought i was within my LIMITS. i know that all people are part of some prospective market for spirituality, but since i'm not selling anything to these people i don't have a fear of offending them. i don't think it's a new or radical view-point to say there are a lot of people in this world that think they are special because they subscribe to a certain pattern of beliefs. (lazy, self-absorbed, self-righteous are not new concepts to AP)
(i don't think)
i don't even think most people here take me seriously anyway...
but feel free to delete this section again if it still doesn't suit you. i won't bother with it from this point on. promise.
Quote from: Souljah333the woman laura that does the channeling is always seeking the secrets to enlightenment (to skip steps), but the ones coming through won't give those answers. they used the analogy referring to the shift between 3rd and 4th density. they asked her where one goes after they finish 3rd grade. she answered 4th. they asked her if it was necessary for the person to know all about 4th grade in order to move up. she said no that you only have to finish all the lessons of 3rd grade to move up to 4th
333
That is exactly my philosophy!! Stop trying to escape the important lessons, they might require work and you might get hurt along the way, but we need them!!!
Hey I was wondering when you would post something! Now it happened :) nice to see you again!
And hey, the thing that was edited out, and which you have now reposted. Even though I might get smacked by an admin now, it is mostly the thoughts I had in mind when I started this post.
Now I will quote it anyway because I think it is very very well written!
Quoteit is true that a lot of people are picking it up for this reason. the "new age" fluffy trend that puts them in some "special" standing. i see people drinking bottled water and i get the same sick knot in my stomach...that they actually believe that will cut the mustard (sotospeak). that they're making some contribution, and doing yoga, or meditating, and buying organic is suppose to make up for all the other lazy and selfish areas in their life.
This is actually exactly what I am talking about, I just didn't have the skills to put it as clearly :)
This was actually what I intended people to confront right from the beginning. To see if there was something generally flawed in that statement, if I was right or wrong. Well thank you for putting it clear !!
It is not because I have against the people here, it is just that I get the impression that everybody are in so much peace with them selves and have so much great experience with everything, I just wanted to know if this goes any deeper than just the appearance?
Quote from: AdrianWe progress to the 4th density when the physical body expires. The level depends on the level of perfection and therefore vibration of the Astra-Mental bodies, not simply on how much you know.
this is what I hate!!! Simply plainly hate!!! GRR! I read this every where! How do you know it? is it something you have experienced with astral projection? Well if that applies when you astral project, what makes you think that it also applies when you die. If you have died.......(yes it sounds stupid...) well then how can you be here writing about it?!? then I guess I have to do a lot of energy work and a lot of astral projection in order to vibrate higher otherwise I will go to one of the lower astral realms aka. Hell. I guess that I have to buy your book then I order to go to heaven. Hmm where I have I seen this before? Was that not something practiced by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, that you could buy yourself away from hell? letters of indulgence?
Well it seems to be very popular to flame you because that you advertise you book on this page, well I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is that statement that if you have low vibrations, then you go to hell. Well when you are very happy then you have high vibrations but if you are not then you have low vibrations and then you are doomed, and now there is even no hope, because you will take your unhappiness with you in the astral. And I guess that there will be a lot of other unhappy people there as well... well how on earth are you ever supposed to be happy then??
Please elaborate on that, it is one of the things that I have come to fear the most actually..... I cannot even argue with you because I have never visited the astral planes (not that I am aware of at least).
However low or high a person's vibrations are, the consequences are immediate. This is what determines the people and situations you bring into your life. The point in talking about it is that there are many ways to improve the situation and the benefits are immediate. We are not talking about dying and going to heaven if you pay off the right people.
i have to speak with what i'm currently working with, which i mentioned earlier as the channeling thing from the so-called cassiopaean's. although they point out they are more a unified field of consciousness coming from the 6th density. a far of cosmopolitan race of "others" that are riding some gravity wave towards earth as we speak...approximate arrival time 2012. it is there hope that as many people are prepared for the shift into 4th density as possible. i still haven't decided if it's information or disinformation yet. i would mention being cautious of channeled information, but Adrian already addressed that concern. i've only just begun reading and there's realms of writing on the site...so i'm not pushing anyone to visit (only SEEKER as i feel it would be of benefit to him at this time). they speak of us as a "fallen" race under reptile rule. i'm not saying i'm in total agreement with this, but their explanations are extremely insightful. every single human living on earth is programmed to miss the mark. they refer not to good and evil, but STS & STO...
service-to-self & service-to-others. there's no way i could sum it up in a post, but they say as long as we are in 3rd density we are purely STS animals, and then they go into to why overflowing buckets of love & light are not the answer. that only when another asks for help can we be in service-to-others...otherwise everything is STS, and i can't see much of an argument there. of course it could be disinformation and telling everyone not to bother loving their neighbor, etc, etc. but i don't see humans being able to control that nature, and in a round about sense neither do they...but they stress over and over again that all there is is lessons. as long as you're constantly striving to learn, and your not instead avoiding the lessons...then it doesn't matter how anyone does it. all part of the collective consciousness and no two lessons are exactly the same.
i have a feeling that if this "wave" they speak of is approaching that many things will change. you won't have to spend decades attaining enlightenment...they say it will come like a subatomic blast. people will start "waking" up instantaneously...and notice they didn't say "like a nice warm breeze". i have a feeling that people will have to work through their issues all at once...and that can be extremely painful. so i guess the more one has applied them-self to enlightenment the less painful it'll be, but only a fraction less than others who are ignorant...and to make Seekers point (if i may)(on the other hand) that for some who have done a lot of work in the whole light and love realm...it could actually be more painful than the rest...if it is in fact a way of delving deeper into the programming, and away from the truth. digging deeper into service-to-self, rather than remaining somewhat neutral in it all. WHO KNOWS?!? NONE OF US...and that's a very scary thought.
all there is is lessons...and since we are in the physical. we chose to come here in the physical...i can see Seekers point in that it would logically seem that the lessons themselves would be of a more physical nature. eg: day to day life. i think a subtle point that is made over and over again at cass---.org is that our need to search for things beyond us...is what is holding us back. a catch 22 they say...and what are we suppose to do about that?!? i haven't read that far yet.
Dearest Seeker, do not expect others to be open to these ideas. this is a very difficult thing for most to do...turn around and look at where you are coming from...why should they? it is much easier for you to get with the "program"!
follow your feelings
seek & you shall find
and give me your perspective on "the meek inheriting the earth".
love & light :wink:
333
i'm always curious about the whole taboo spirit/ouija board thing. esp. from those that travel the astral. there seems to be a lot of talk at discrediting those with neg attacks as if they are doing something wrong, or need more work on themselves spiritually, as if going through the painful lessons is somehow WRONG. but then there is a great amount of energy used to enforce the REAL dangers of negs coming through a piece of wood with letter & numbers on it. not that i really believe that negative is the best word, nor evil...i'm not sure what to call it. "interfering souls" maybe?!? feeders definitely. and these can come through anytime, anywhere. JUST DON'T ASK QUESTIONS YOU DON'T WANT THE ANSWER TO, DON'T GO INTO UNCHARTED TERRITORY, AND DON'T INVITE ANYTHING IN EVER.
souljah: what is enlightenment?
also, on the topic of lessons: i disagree. Learning is an aspect of life, yes, but when it comes to death what lessons that you learned in life actually matter? Does it matter in the afterlife that you can build a house, or teach a classroom of students? Hell, does it even matter that we learned compassion, or happiness?
I believe we are here simply to be here. to have fun, experiance limitations, play a game if you will. we abide by a broad set of rules, like gravity and mortality, but for the most part you get to do what you want, and no one else is going to judge you except yourself.
I dont know if i believe in "negs" or whatever you call them. I think there are people stuck in death who dont know they are dead, and they act out there sick beliefs in there own systems, but i dont get the whole idea of seperate entities with an evil agenda. actually, heh, i dont even believe in Good and Bad. for me these are concepts that we draw upon for use in the physical universe.
hey thank you very much for that massive post, phew it took some time to get through it.
I don't really know what to think about what you are writing. in one way it appeals to my way of thinking that those "cassiopaean's" are coming and somehow forcing us through to the 4th density making people face their problems and overcoming them all at once.
But I never said that I like my way of thinking, it is just something I do, think in that way.
But I choose to remain skeptical towards it. It sounds a bit crazy to be honest... something is coming from somewhere I have never heard of to change mankind. Perhaps I should try to do some reading on that page, but if YOU say that there are oceans of text there, then already there my breath is taken away. But I do want to cast anything away before I have read it. But right now it sounds very mysterious.
I read your post in the astral projection section about the thing about you thought that you were being influenced by some sort of aliens. I have always sought not to come up with such conclusions, they tend to make me insanely paranoid, well if we are being controlled by aliens, then perhaps I should be :shock:
But hey, can we take this up again in 2012 :)? then there will be prove right? At least I do not want to run around outside claiming that doomsday is upon us, and then be ticked off as nothing happens... damn.... yet another false prophecy, well it is a good thing that I have 100 other doomsday prophecies in my book, bwarhahah!
Not that it is anything close to what you are saying. But that was the kind of thought that came to me. Sure, it is very likely that it is society that has influenced me to deny such obvious truths right?
To be honest, I am getting a bit tired of searching and searching for something that I can believe in that also makes sense to me. The only thing that I m certain of is that I am NOT happy hence the search. Actually, the thought of doing drugs appeals to me! At least I sometimes see it as an excellent alternative to this misery here. The misery came out of nowhere, I never asked to by unhappy. So that would be a fine way to mock destiny, doing drugs and feeling happy.
What is the difference between being and feeling happy? I know, it is YOU! You are the only ones to tell me as I am doing heroin that I am not happy, just feeling happy!
Perhaps I will find the biggest meanest guy with a baseball bat and insult him insanely much. Then I would spend the rest of my days in a hospital with a morphine drop, feeling totally good – good plan?
I know that if I suddenly felt happy for no apparent reason, I would abandon this search for higher destiny in a second and just go around and feel happy. This was never ever what I intended, this is just the result of feeling bad, of not knowing who why and where I am. I am hoping that I will find happiness by going here in the hope that "enlightment" will make me happy.
But yes, deep down I know that running around searching for this "holy grail" is not the answer, but I do it anyway just for the sake of doing something I guess.
Christ I am tired..... I have a Danish oral exam two days from now, it is filling up my mind more than it is supposed to.
Well goodnight. Sorry for this last part of nonsense, hopefully I will gain a more positive perspective tomorrow
Dear BENK, long time no see. sometimes i feel like were communicating for the first time. i'm sure we've gone over all this before?!? i'd like to be able to say that people are free to think whatever they want to think, but something won't allow me to do that. something that sees a box full of blocks, and then i can't say that we are free to play with all the blocks we want. only the ones out of the box. the thoughts come from a box as well, and although you are free to pick and choose whichever suit you, and change that choice at will. does that equate to real freedom? is that a real choice? i guess that's as good as it gets for us here in the 3rd dimension/density...whichever.
what isn't enlightenment?
Dear SOM, i wasn't trying to push anything on you. i was just giving a rough idea about the site...save you from the trouble, encase it wasn't your thing, but in between the stuff that the "average" person has a difficult time swallowing there is some good information, especially if you like physics. why do we keep searching? when we're happy why do we cease and desist? if there was really some great lizard conspiracy to keep us zombified...wouldn't they make it all fine and dandy, so we wouldn't look for something else? reminds me of the matrix once again. where mr.smith says that the original program didn't work bcuz it was too perfect. too walgreens...and people kept trying to wake themselves up?
i don't think that kind of happiness exists...the kind that just keeps going. it comes little spurts, and we want to experience it again, and that's what we keep searching for...sometimes so much so that miss the little spurts that do come, bcuz we want that first taste, that original feeling again.
it definitely has to do with clearing the mind, and experiencing everything as if it was your first time...and in that sense there would be no lessons to hold on to. we can't forget, so we can't let go, and we can't experience that freedom, that enjoyment bcuz we're stuck. but what the hell do i know??? i never claimed to have any answers what so ever.
as far as the aliens and negs are concerned...i guess you'll have to wait till you come up against one. nothing i say could convince or prepare anyone in any sense whatsoever. of course they've come quite a long with holographic technology.
333
333
QuoteDear SOM, i wasn't trying to push anything on you. i was just giving a rough idea about the site...save you from the trouble, encase it wasn't your thing, but in between the stuff that the "average" person has a difficult time swallowing
yes i know, i just have a hard time in believing in anything. and considering the fact that i will not live for ever (in the physical at least) i simply cannot afford throw myself into one way of believing or thinking because what if it was not true after all? Then I would see myself as the biggest idiot alive. There are simply too many believes and I cannot afford to bury myself in just a few of them. I must see them all, because I have a feeling that once I find the right believe, I will know because there will be no doubt! No "what if". Well that would at least be nice :)
I remember when I saw the matrix for the first time over at a friend's house, I truly believed that we were being controlled by somebody ells and that this world was just an illusion. I felt totally insane!!! I must have been around 14-15 I cant really remember.... Well when Neo leaves "the matrix" is the "real world" not just another matrix? Or did I misunderstand that part? Well anyway that would seem like the most logical right? That if there are somebody capable of manipulating with our reality that they have created it just like an onion with infinitive layers? And then I think "what is the point then"? if we are going through all that trouble escaping this matrix, when the place we have come to is just another matrix? Well what would the point be in creating a false reality? To use our body for electricity? No that is stupid, that is also the part of the matrix that I did not understand, why humans? Why not cows? They also produce body heat and I bet you they won't try to escape their infinite field of grass.
And hey, if we are being controlled by something like in the matrix, then why would they simply not prevent that such movies as the "matrix" comes out which makes us think in a direction that could be potentially dangerous for them?
Well I don't know. In some way it would bring a lot of hope to think of this world as being totally false, and the struggle to reach "another world" would be like a kind of religion. And I can perfectly understand why a lot of people would believe in that.
What about astral projection and the astral worlds, are they also "false" then, another layer to the matrix?
In my next life I will specialize in giving answers in stead of asking questions all the time :)
yeah but if you specialized in answers no one would take you seriously. not that anyone takes anything seriously anyway. you could be like tony robins and own a lot of excrement though! the labyrinth, the wizard of oz, alice in wonderland, the cube, etc...there's been a reoccurring story throughout. RPG's are very much the same, and i've been hearing more about them from dreamers and AProjectionists. getting though the levels. anyway...
the simplest idea that repeats itself often in my life (physically & otherwise) is that there is no escape, bcuz their is no trap. i think we can ascend the illusion/all of this in an instant. i don't lean much toward the "human battery" idea either, but i do sense something in us all building some onion like construct "around" ourselves...where the more we learn, the more we gather...the more we build...the more trapped we become.
I sing the body electric
I celebrate the me yet to come
I toast to my own reunion
When I become one with the sun
And I'll look back on Venus, I'll look back on Mars
And I'll burn with the fire of ten million stars
And in time, and in time, we will all be stars
I sing the body electric
I glory in the glow of rebirth
Creating my own tomorrow
When I shall embody the earth
And I'll serenade Venus, I'll serenade Mars
And I'll burn with the fire of ten million stars
And in time, and in time, we will all be stars
had to add this bcuz it just keeps looping through my mind.
333
i see so much information streaming from all sides? everything to me feels like this. leading one way or another. just ordinary people writing stories, music, screenplays, games, etc...but there's something else in it. whether it is to be deciphered or not, i can't say. i guess it could be like the million monkey theory...but it's so much more frequent than that.
it surrounds me.
Quote from: Seeker of MatterI have been doing some reading about energy work, and I have even tried to practice it myself. I used NEW and I felt the tingling and so on that is to be expected with it. But then I stopped and thought for a moment. What is it that energy work supposed to do you? Is it supposed to make you happier or stronger or smarter?
I have tried to understand chakras and how they are connected to the different kinds of feelings of a human being. I then read that if you are hurt emotionally – ex. if your girl- or boyfriends breaks up with you, then it can affect you hearth chakra. Well that sounds logical. Then a closed down hearth chakra is the indication of that you feel bad but not the cause of it (very important).....
Let me put it in another way. You life is not caused by you chakras, you chakras are caused by life and by affecting your life you affect your chakras and NOT the other way around. Please comment.
Is it just me or do you people (sorry for generalizing) think that doing energy work will make you happier in life? I would have loved to weave that question a bit around so it wouldn't seem so direct and childish but that was my core-thought.
Are you people who are doing energy work unhappy for some reason? And is it not true that people that have never ever done energy work or heard about it can actually have much much higher energy levels than people that have done it for years?
Is it then not just an illusion that energy work will do anything for you but make you tingle a bit? Should the "real" energy not be used to correct the physical problems in stead of manipulating energy?
I can give an example. Yesterday I went to my Danish test-exam where I had to write an essay. I had been very nervous for that exam many days before, and that of course made me feel bad. So by some sort of reflex-thought I began doing some energy work. Then I stopped and realized that it was not going to help anything – the only thing that would help was going to that exam and finishing it. The reason I felt bad was because I doubted in my abilities to analyze a text and find the message of it.
When I had finished my exam I felt greater than I had felt and there was no energy work involved!
Can some of you relate to that?
Do you do energy work in order to overcome problems in your life? Or do you at least think that energy work will easy your lives?
In the end is energy raising not just caused by fear and doubt in one self? "oh I must do more energy work or I will have low energy – perhaps even lover than others' and that will in the end make me less of a human than them!!"
Can we call it a more accepted quest for power (and perhaps even more extended as you will take it with you when you die) do you think that it will make you more powerful in the afterlife?
Please prove me wrong.....
Its really hard for me to put the idea together, but I try.
I think I understand and agree with you. I would try understand people who reply to this in "contra" way. There is biiig diference between energy work and meditation. Actualy there isn't, but it depends on definition of the words. I've never done NEW practicaly, I just started to read it and the practice was repeling to me, because there was no asnwer on WHY should I try to feel anything, why should I do with energy?
I figured out that real working with energy is pure meditating, or dealing with life itself. Whenever you are in position you feel some "bad" feeling anywhere(at home/work in contact friends/other people), you should analyze mind piece by piece. It's all about mind. Its not about energy. When you work with your mind, consequently you work with energy. So its a diference in some way. Directly affecting energy has secondary meaning and most of the job done here is in ego nature imho.
I haven't done single energy work , maybe some meditating when I felt like it, only when I felt like it and I have become more subtile (or i was from before, dunno) when it comes to feeling the energy.
For me, feeling the energy is only a proof to energy-based "theories" or
should I call the Truth. nothing else,.. nothing else...
so I can speak freely and confidenlty about this things, because once you feel, you know. Its not believeing anymore, its knowing and understanding...
going back to the "spirit-board" thing. we come in contact with people all day long, touch, interact, try to comprehend where they're coming from & what they're saying, but we usually measure it against where we're coming from & what we chose to believe...so what's the diff? don't the same basic concepts for self-preservation carry through/across? or is the understanding here that people throw all caution to the wind when they think that god is speaking to them? anyway...people are far better conduits for all the information than a sheet of wood. i don't get why so many people have issues with the method? the same could said for the telephone.
QuoteSecondly, always be extremely wary of channeled sources.
The vast majority of channeling's are with people in the Astral who are actually no different to us except for the fact they are non-physical. They usually have no more true knowledge and often have less, depending on their own evolution. The danger is channeling lower level Astral beings who will claim to be anyone that might appeal to the channeler, very often Archangels Smile
i think it's ridiculous to think that channeling isn't something we're always doing. we're always asking questions, waiting for answers. we're always seeking advice and hoping for secret in's to it all. for me it comes from a million different directions (descending & ascending, buckling & inflating all at once). and this is for those at the other end as well that think that the whole channeling thing is hogwash. i'm pleased with myself in that fact that i can find inspiration and wisdom in all things. i don't to see it to believe it, and it doesn't have to be of some "prove'n standard". it's not reserved to nietzsche, or string-theories.
it can be teletubbies and pineapple. how long ago did fucanelli live and people are just beginning to figure out the messages now. we can only resist for so long.
i just don't get all the boxes people like to draw around themselves and everything around them them...seems to prolong the whole thing?!?
333
Quote from: Seeker of MatterI have been doing some reading about energy work, and I have even tried to practice it myself. I used NEW and I felt the tingling and so on that is to be expected with it. But then I stopped and thought for a moment. What is it that energy work supposed to do you? Is it supposed to make you happier or stronger or smarter?
I have tried to understand chakras and how they are connected to the different kinds of feelings of a human being. I then read that if you are hurt emotionally – ex. if your girl- or boyfriends breaks up with you, then it can affect you hearth chakra. Well that sounds logical. Then a closed down hearth chakra is the indication of that you feel bad but not the cause of it (very important).....
Let me put it in another way. You life is not caused by you chakras, you chakras are caused by life and by affecting your life you affect your chakras and NOT the other way around. Please comment.
Is it just me or do you people (sorry for generalizing) think that doing energy work will make you happier in life? I would have loved to weave that question a bit around so it wouldn't seem so direct and childish but that was my core-thought.
Are you people who are doing energy work unhappy for some reason? And is it not true that people that have never ever done energy work or heard about it can actually have much much higher energy levels than people that have done it for years?
Is it then not just an illusion that energy work will do anything for you but make you tingle a bit? Should the "real" energy not be used to correct the physical problems in stead of manipulating energy?
I can give an example. Yesterday I went to my Danish test-exam where I had to write an essay. I had been very nervous for that exam many days before, and that of course made me feel bad. So by some sort of reflex-thought I began doing some energy work. Then I stopped and realized that it was not going to help anything – the only thing that would help was going to that exam and finishing it. The reason I felt bad was because I doubted in my abilities to analyze a text and find the message of it.
When I had finished my exam I felt greater than I had felt and there was no energy work involved!
Can some of you relate to that?
Do you do energy work in order to overcome problems in your life? Or do you at least think that energy work will easy your lives?
In the end is energy raising not just caused by fear and doubt in one self? "oh I must do more energy work or I will have low energy – perhaps even lover than others' and that will in the end make me less of a human than them!!"
Can we call it a more accepted quest for power (and perhaps even more extended as you will take it with you when you die) do you think that it will make you more powerful in the afterlife?
Please prove me wrong.....
A Tree to be Desired (The Garden of Eden)
http://www.harrypottermagic.org/2-Trees.htm
The Serpent said you will become Gods. "The Kundalini, like a serpent that arises up to the brain, awakening the Serpent Power".
SoM, I don't know if you are still following this thread but I hope I can give you a pragmatic example of the positive effects of energy work.
For years I had spontaneous occurrances of different sorts i.e. vivid dreams, increased consciousness in dreams, projection symptoms(didn't know what they were at the time), and even a fully conscious real-time projection. Following that, I had a fully conscious astral projection. For many years now I've wanted to recreate those experiences. I wasn't looking to "improve" myself, I just wanted to recreate those amazing experiences in this mundane world of empty religion and hollow philosophies. Concerns, in my opinion, about selfish desires only act as a roadblock to doing anything in this world.
So I set out to understand. The first books I stumbled across described a strange sensation known as the "vibration". I was amazed by the verification of my experiences. I felt as if I had just dug a book from the ashes of the library of Alexandria. Soon, I began to find more books and more verifications. But, very few of these books contained information on how to stimulate and develop ourselves to reacheive our experiences.
You mention how you did some energy work and felt some tingling. You then launched immediately into conscious denial of its benefits. I guess an appropriate question would be,
"Are you looking to recreate a previous experience, or are you trying to cause your first experience?"
The reason I ask this is because you (through the effort of sitting down and doing energy work) show a desire to develop yourself along these lines.
If you would allow me, I would like to rephrase your question, "I sat down and followed the instructions on how to develop my energy body. My results were successful. I felt tingling which indicated to me that I do have an energy body. This is the most amazing discovery of my life. Nobody ever told me about this and I had to investigate on my own. If I am to believe other intellectually honest people, this one experience indicates to me that life does exist beyond the body. I will continue to investigate due to this verification. Other experiences await me if I continue developing and strengthening my energy body. I know that further experiences will open and expand my understanding of reality. My understanding will be based on experience, not dogma. But, how do I overcome my doubts? Why do I constantly create roadblocks to my own development? I know this is an open-ended question but it is the root of my problems with energy development. Is it a wolf in sheeps clothing? Is my fear of projecting actually clothed in intellectual debate about the validity of energy work? "
The reason I phrased this in a question is because I have the very same problem. I love talking. But talking is not a placebo for doing.
Your experiences will validate themselves. Others words, and even our own, being only so much sound and fury.
I would be interested in news about your further energy work. Your cautious approach, and any experiences that follow, could bring credence to the esoteric path of energy work. Especially to those who doubt. And then truly your path will be unselfish. You will be holding the light of experience and knowledge up to those who may be wandering.
Hey thanks for the posting. You have quite a lot of interesting thoughts there. At least to me.
Well I was actually waiting for this topic to slowly pass away and be forgotten, as I simply could not pull myself together to write anything more in it.
This process of writing actually requires that you focus your mind on what you want to write and actually think the whole thing through in you head and then validate if it is something worth writing. The thought of that whole process can sometimes feel a little overwhelming but now that I AM writing it doesn't seem so bad :)
Well to do some follow ups I have chosen to think about selfishness in a specific way. It is all right!
I guess that I had an extreme view on selfishness that would label anything that benefits you as selfish. But I have now come to the conclusion that selfishness is not a bad thing. Everybody is selfish to some extend but when it doesn't hurt anyone then I guess it is okay.
QuoteConcerns, in my opinion, about selfish desires only act as a roadblock to doing anything in this world.
I have come to that conclusion as well.
And to the energywork. I have never ever felt anything spontaneously like energy sensations and vibrations and lucid dreaming (actually I am lucky if just recall fragments of my dreams) and certainly not out of body experiences.
My spiritual research started about one and a half years ago when I was trying to analyse some Tool (music band) lyrics found in the song "Third eye" and some guy posted a link to www.astralvoyage.com where this Anne Varnes explains the function of the third eye. I just began reading at that site and I was insanely excited of this whole concept of astral travel. It sounded almost unreal and I had my doubts if this was just some sort of fantasy novel she was writing.
Well one thing let to another and then I wanted to try it. So I tried to relax all the best I have learned and I simply waited for these vibrations and "exit sensations" to come..... but they never came. And I know that you must think that I am doing something wrong you probably think that I am trying too hard or any of the other obvious things that everybody who has tried astral travel warns about.
Well I am still trying sometimes just to see if perhaps NOW am able, but I still feel nothing. At least in the category of vibrations and exit sensations.
Yesterday I actually read Major Tom's massive article on Focus 10 as I have tried the Monroe experience (have all the cd's actually) but I didn't get very far with it so I thought that maybe I relaxed in the wrong way or something like that.
Well I read the whole thing last night and that brought a lot of thoughts to my head. I know that when you try to astral project then you cannot have your head filled with thoughts and concerns but Major Tom's thoughts of Focus 10 filled my head and I of course wanted to go again and try to reach this Focus 10. So I was extremely focused last night as I went to bed (I guess this was my error huh?). and I kept saying to myself "relax relax relax". Well my body in no way went to sleep BUT I experienced something ells!!!
I think that I the most lucid dream I have ever had! Well I don't know if it was lucid as you know it, but I have nothing ells to compare to as my dreams are the only ones I have experienced and therefore I stick to calling my dream a lucid dream ok :) ?
Well actually it was not a dream, it is the most terrifying insanely fear inspiring nightmare I have ever had... EVER!!! I was so scared I thought I would die from fear. And when I woke up, it didn't feel like a normal wakeup, I just kinda became aware of that I was lying with my eyes wide open just staring straight into my wall.
There I lay for some time before I decided to sit up. I sat up and did nothing but looking into the wall for 15 minutes. Then I walked a bit around in my room with my body slightly shaking. It was 3 in the morning and I seriously did not want to go back to sleep.
My dream was actually very weird and I am surprised that I felt such fear from it. It was about the supernatural.
I dreamt that I was in my home and then a lot of radios suddenly turned on. Old radios I think there were 9 of them. I can't remember what sounds came out of them but it definitely scared me. Then I shut them off and the scene changes. I was in my living room and my cat was standing in front of me. Then another cat appeared besides it.... well it ended with me killing the other cat with a huge chair because it was weird. It disappeared when I moved the chair....... which I in the end killed it with ( yes it sounds weird I know...)
But I guess it was a step in the right direction.
I actually have a theory of why I have not experienced vibrations or OBE's. it is because that I do not want to....
When I go to bed I always have this idea of eternal peaceful sleep in my mind. I never really want to wake up again. The only thing that I want to do is sleep and enjoy the "nothingness" it brings. Well I guess that my wish is quite powerful huh? That would explain why I almost never have lucid or semi lucid dreams. Because I deep down don't want to. I want to escape this reality not just go into another one – loose consciousness. Well I can see how that does not go hand in hand with OBEs :)
I guess it is an attitude problem. I guess it could be a depression problem... it could be a motivation problem which I think is the most likely. When I think about it. I have enough "reality" here on this dense low vibrating cold and hearthless (yes I tend to get melodramatic hehe) place for now, I just feel that I should explore this place a little more before I start urging for another place. I don't think I can stomach all these realities right now. Perhaps I am too young...
Wasn't Robert Monroe around 50 or 60 when he started astral projecting? He got a long way even though he was old he even founded an institute.
Perhaps I too should wait?
Damn... I made the post too long. Hmm I guess it is time for you to put your arms around you and clap yourself on your shoulder because you read through this whole thing :)
Yes I guess you that can harvest the credit of bringing me that experience. The clearness of the dream was nothing to what I experience in "real life" but it was much clearer than any dream I have ever had even considering that I almost never am able to remember anything from my dreams.
I enjoyed your article very much it is obvious that you have put a lot of time into that focus 10 research. Even as much as 300 hours :shock:
Well one of the other things in your article that I really liked was the quote from your friend?
QuoteAwareness itself has no concern for its image. Only when your awareness attaches itself to what is convenient, owns that what it is experienced, then a fixed pattern comes in, an awareness checking up on itself- making thought the object of thought by separating yourself from it- trying to own it and seeking a solution. Awareness fixated on itself, centred around itself and observing itself like a prison guard directing and controlling other thought. Taking care of those prisoners who abide to his rules and punishing those who don't. He has given power to itself to wield over the prisoners, but he doesn't realise he is in the prison himself, that he is no different from the prisoners. He believes he is more important and powerful than the prisoners, that he is different from them - separated.
The memory of the light outside the prison walls is long gone as he was trained to be a guard. Until he realises that all the wielding of power is useless when he himself can never go outside. Until he sees he is no different at all than what he tries to control, that in the outer world this control is meaningless except for himself, only then maybe he changes his life cause he will see the meaninglessness himself. Then he will drop the need for self-esteem the prisoners gave him. He will no longer be attached to the prisoners. No longer trying to hold them. He will drop everything and leave. Freeing the prisoners and himself at the same time to experience a world outside of the prison walls, a more expansive way of living.
There is no loss of living if we would give the prison guard less importance even though we fear that there will be. We tend to give the part of ourselves that holds the opinions about the "whole" of us the most importance. In reality it is only about holding a fixed moment still, to be reflected upon. Holding still in that moment, the present is lost with only the past functioning. We do this as we are in need of constant reminder of ourselves - that we exist. Can you see that the ending of this constant focus on ourselves has nothing to do with the loss of self, but that it brings upon us a fear that the self has become in danger of being lost, of not being in control? It is far more peaceful to feel yourself as pure energy. An energy that can move freely. The real meaning of identification is simply to attach a word to something so that the next time you see it you can recognize it. You'll relate it to an image of what you identified before rather than seeing something new. So to "identify yourself" is to maintain a certain image, prison around yourself that can never change.
Nothing is lost if we give this focus less importance cause the self will continue to exist. It's simply removing an "identification" fixation, a crystalized structure. Purifying the self instead of destroying it. A far more expansive self, as it will move into areas of existence it never before had the chance to move into. As it is now, any movement towards an expansive state of consciousness is constantly pulled back into by an authoritative part of ourselves demanding that all our movements remain in line with the image we have ourselves. The slightest deviation from what we perceive ourselves to be is stopped by us being alarmed and feeling the need to hold the moment in time so that it cannot go further
I am still trying to fully understand it but I think it is great anyway. At least it makes me think in new ways.
Well I guess I will go all the way and read Frank's thoughts about phasing, and NOT try to do it right after, but wait a couple of days to let it sink in and then try. That nightmare experience was quite "educative" in terms of not rushing blindly towards something :)
EDIT: i noticed a copyright mark on your article.... i hope you are not going to sue me for quoting from it :shock:
I think it is interesting because you have not had an experience in the realm of AP. Something deeply subconscious must be pushing you in this direction. I know it does for me. Whether it is pain that pushes us toward AP as an escape, or our "higher self" pushing us toward a expanded state of mind, I don't know. But the end result is that we feel a desire to go in the direction of "spiritual work".
Here's some pragmatic suggestions for you that I have found to be true and effective. Learn Robert Bruce's methods of energy body stimulation. Listen to the appropriate setting on the bwgen while you do your energy body stimulation. Sit in a semi reclined chair. Do all of these things after you are fully rested and are not likely to fall asleep. Stay as close to the prescribed time limits as possible as described in 90 Days to Astral Projection. Try to calm your mind more than you have ever done in your life, push the limits.
Lucidity will result from this work. The only cure for "terror" or "fear" is lucidity. It's like turning the light on and realizing that the big furry thing you feel in the dark is only a bear fur and not a bear. Fear in our dreams, in my opinion, is the ego personality fighting to deny its higher self. Dreams are a delusion created by the subconscious to paint terrifying pictures of OOB related symptoms. For example, while the energy body is feeling different sensations such as the vibration or transitional stages of projection it translates these into things which you are consciously terrified of.(radios turning on supernaturally or freaky animals screeching) Thereby using your fear against you by causing you to stop the terror and denying you further development. Lucidity, which is a result of energy work, will allow you to consciously say, while you are dreaming, "I am no longer afraid of these images". Then you will more than likely move on to a more conscious state of being. (Out of body experience)
A funny thing I have noticed recently is a strong anti-establishment sentiment. What I mean by this is the desire of people to shirk something because of its high visibility in the public eye. What I am getting at is about Robert Bruce's books. Just because he is profiting from these books, some automatically assume he is a corrupt capitalist who is exploiting spirituality. Don't be afraid to follow the instructions in his books. This world, at least until we can produce manna from the sky, will remain profit driven. I believe Bruce has the highest intentions that anyone could have. I tried for years to reproduce anything that I could on an astral level. Wishing, hoping, believing but it just didn't cut the mustard. This is practical work and it does require practical methods. I do hope you try the 90 Days book and keep us informed while you practice.[/i]
I have thought about buying Roberts books. At least the astral dynamics so I can fully understand what is happening and why.
And I do not think of Robert as a corrupt either. From my point of view he actually seams to be really a nice guy! I have listened to the radio shows with him and he just has so much to say about astral projection and I think he could talk forever about. And even when he has said a million times that people should go buy his book if they want to learn astral projection and some redneck guy who haven't reasearched this topic at all asks if Robert could teach him how to astral project. And even considering all the times Robert must have heard that question he just calmly goes ahead and tells him about some ladder technique. Now that is self-preservation :)
But there are a lot of things I should read!! I guess I can really begin to focus on it about a year from now, then I have finished high school!!!
EDIT: you have a quite enlightened wife there then! She should write a book based on "the stuff just out there" :)
QuoteBut there are a lot of things I should read!! I guess I can really begin to focus on it about a year from now, then I have finished high school!!!
If your are still in high school, now is the perfect time to start practicing the energy techniques. I know this is going to sound stupid because it wasn't that long ago that I was in school and thought that the mentor I had teaching me was full of the metaphorical brown stuff, but trust me, you have more time to dedicate to this than you ever will again until retirement age!!!
Take this opportunity to learn your energy body and personal philosophy. Forget about AP, OBE, applied magicks, and every other specialized school of occult practice for now and concentrate on the universal basics of self knowledge. As the inscription on the door to the Delphi Oracle said, "Postulate, know thyself." Right now, you have questions about your own beliefs, and that is what you need to work out before you can be "disciplined" in anything.
Just a little friendly advice from someone who wanted to do it all, be damned the opinion of those who came before me. :)[/quote]
yeah blessed be the day when I have sorted out my belief system and found a "road" which I cannot see anything wrong with walking on.
But now things are more than ever a total chaos for me. I am trying to find some kind of reason for doing things just some sort of reason for living and acting. And more and more I am coming to the conclusion that there is no reason no ultimate reality that I can cling to. So perhaps I should give this whole search for meaning and higher purpose some extra thought.
Perhaps meaning is something made up by us stupid ignorant zombie like humans so that we would feel "secure". Perhaps this whole feeling of security is a false construct...
More and more I question this whole "thinking" that I do all the time. Is everything meant to be thought trough, what will happen if I do not think things through? Is more better than less? From whose perspective? Who are judging us? If no one is judging us then there is no official and secure road in life. What is false and what is true, who are there to teach us that besides ourselves and is it even right to trust one self? What in life should I treasure? Etc. etc.
Really things are seaming more confusing than they ever were. I have had one year of philosophy and that has actually made me despair more than it has enlightened me, or perhaps that "enlightenment" has made me see things that I did not like. But why did I not like it? because that it goes against what I have always known and thought as true?
This constant questioning is beginning to annoy me. I am tired of having my fundament ripped away from under my feet with the message of that I has to make my own fundament based on what I think is true. Well I know nothing!! How the H£ll can I know what is right? I barely even know myself so it makes me angry when I am told that I am supposed to make up my own path in life... well I have no idea on what to do, how do I make meaning to my own life? It is like an abyss of infinite freedom.... How should I know what to choose or where to go?
Perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with my thinking..... but hey who dare tell me that when my thinking is made by me and therefore is true to me and to my life and my way. Nobody can tell me that I am doing anything wrong as there is no such thing as "wrong" and your definition of wrong is useless to me as I find it true and by doing that it becomes true to me.
That was just a fragment of the endless dialogue that I am having with myself all the time. And I don't know whether I should just stop thinking in that way or think even more and deeper and really take every thought out the very extreme of its meaning.
So I say again. Blessed be the day when I find some sort of meaning in this mess.
Listening to you sounds like deja vu from my own internal dialogs not that long ago. From when I graduated to two years later, I had those kinds of questions. I decided the only way through it was to question everything, even what I thought in the most extreme way I could to discover what I really think is the best way.
The way I decided that the best way to discover the truth of what is right and what is wrong was to go do all the things I thought were wrong, find out if they were really and why. I still have personal nightmares at things I did over the year I tried this, but it worked.
I'm not saying this is the way for you, just that it worked for me, and you should question not whether things are right or wrong, but why you think they are. Hopefully you won't do this in any extreme way like I did, it leads to pain.
well what have you found out then, it would be great if i could just skip that whole confusing painful part and just get to the answers :)
please elaborate 8)
...I've found out two things for sure, there is a better way. Less painful. Although pain is a great motivator and teacher, don't discount it.
Second, and more pertinent to your question, I found out unequivocally that the truth is highly different from one person to another. If I answered your question and told you what I learned, it wouldn't do you much good. Sorry.
My earlier point is that you must do the work and discover your path, find out what blocks it, and work to overcome that. The best way to do that is to first learn your own thoughts on what is right and what is wrong. I did that through a painful procedure of first looking at what I found to be wrong, then doing those things to find out what made them wrong, or if it was just other people with no idea saying what I should do. I also found out that other people were right in a lot of cases!
Ultimately, you have to go through the pain yourself, though.
QuoteSecond, and more pertinent to your question, I found out unequivocally that the truth is highly different from one person to another.
That is also the conclusion that I have come to. But then i think that truth is overrated. If truth is so subjective then what is the point of calling something true when it is only true to you - doesn't it loose its credit then?
for example: I think that the zebra is black with white stripes and you think that the zebra is white with black stripes. What is the truth about the zebra then? The only truth can then be that there is no truth. Truth is an illusion. It is just coincidences and phenomenons that we seem to agree on the same things.
I think that is caused by us having the same bodies or at least similar bodies with similar senses.
I actually think that all labels such as "good" and "bad" and "true" and "false" are just bi-products of how the world feels to our bodies and that we therefor should take "truth" with a grain of salt.
I hope that i will some day learn astral projection. Because I have a feeling of that "truth" has a quite different meaning in the astral, not like anything I have ever known before.
Well it can't hurt to imagine :)
After you stop all this doing and just be, it takes time for the tensions in your body and mind to release. Just watch and wait and allow the process to happen. Everyone has to do it for themselves. Meditation and energy work are tools to give you something to do to keep you from interfering with the unwinding process.
I can see how that makes sense from a Buddhist point of view. But I have found that you just cannot "be" in this world. Our bodies require doings in order to stay alive.
I don't think that you can apply those philosophies while you are still build into this flesh vessel - it will create misery to try and fight against. You cannot ignore your body. It is real now and you simply have to deal with it. Accept the need for doing and allow yourself to dream of a being without doing.
It is not possible to just be right now, if you think it is, then maybe you are simply ignoring things and I think that you should acknowledge everything and act out from it.
Tom I have been wondering about you. You mystify me. All of your answers seem so robotically correct and emotion free (is that a correct observation?) No sign of feelings or doubt or anything ells that i would describe as human. What do you yourself think you are? I am curious. I never see any kind of "chit-chat" or smalltalk coming from you. How come? Have you simply evolved beyond that?
I am not intending to be arrogant here (well if you think i am, to hell with me intentions huh ;)?) I have just been wondering and i guess that is to expect that a person like me would throw out such questions without any reservation. Well i have the choice to "edit" my way of appearing, but i choose not to because this is the way i am. So I just wounder, are you edited?
Hmm I guess that i know what you are going to say..... surprise me!
SoM,
Kind of sounds like you are starting to put Bloodsong's method to the test -- see how being hurtful to someone else feels, I guess. And no, you don't sound arrogant, just rude.
I don't know Tom except thru this forum, but his posts have generally been well-thought and logical. The advice he is giving you here is valid. While meditating, you certainly can "just be." While meditating, expect nothing, and accept whatever comes, calmly. Over time answers may come to you. If you are genuinely looking for the ultimate, universal, TRUTH, that's the only way to achieve it.
And I will say absolutely without reservation that yes, "Truth," "Good," and "Evil" exist. The most obvious truth in your Zebra example is that Zebras are black-and-white. A geneticist or zoologist could very likely tell you which was the base color. If you ram your hand forcefully into a hard object, your hand will hurt. That's truth. As to its being based on the experiences of our body, that's all we've got.
I'm going to be pretty direct with you now, and apologize if it offends. You opened the door yourself with your own comments. In your posts I see you eagerly accepting advice that is practically guaranteed to lead to nothing but grief, then saying thanks but no thanks to advice that could actually be helpful. If your posts are made in jest, then "no harm, no foul" and all I'm wasting is some typing. If you are making serious inquiry, then you need to take a good look at yourself. You come across as very young, upset and angry that life isn't handing you everything you want on a silver platter. Here's a news flash, life's not fair and it doesn't operate by our rules. (I'd be way richer if it did!) You also seem to be looking for someone to make your judgment calls and decisions for you. There are people willing to do that, but what happens if you don't like their decisions -- back to square one.
If you are looking for an emotional rudder or as good a roadmap as we are likely to see, there's no shortcut. It's called study and meditation. Of course, there's been a few million people on that path ahead of you, and lilkely as many more behind, but there's always room for one more. And if you never find the ultimate TRUTH, at least in the search, you had a purpose. There's something to be said for that.
The more time I spend writing on a post, the shorter it gets.
greatoutdoors wrote:
QuoteIn your posts I see you eagerly accepting advice that is practically guaranteed to lead to nothing but grief, then saying thanks but no thanks to advice that could actually be helpful.
I would like to point out that my advice was against that road, however I understand if it did not come across as such, sometimes I over abbreviate my point when my son is begging for attention. I do after all want to give it to him! (NO, he is NOT one of the mistakes I was referring to, and NEITHER is his mom. Those are some of the great things that happened since I, as greatoutdoors points out, stopped trying to find the "easy way" and started applying myself to my own life!)
Also,
QuoteIf you are looking for an emotional rudder or as good a road map as we are likely to see, there's no shortcut. It's called study and meditation. Of course, there's been a few million people on that path ahead of you, and likely as many more behind, but there's always room for one more. And if you never find the ultimate TRUTH, at least in the search, you had a purpose. There's something to be said for that.
As I have said elsewhere, I am not a Christian, but I will give that an AMEN.
Firstly thanks for the answers. It is nice to see that even though this thread is getting boringly long I still get response.
Then I would like to explain why I am what it being perceived as plainly rude towards Tom. That is because he interests me and I deeply admire the way he writes his answers to me – they just seem so correct every time. I myself am a very incorrect person I say things that doesn't make sense I even write things that might sound as if they make sense, but in reality they don't. And I am aware of that therefore my curiosity is great when I encounter people that have abilities that I want to have but do not have. Then I want to find out how that person can be this way because I have only tried being in my own way and I am therefore skeptical about people being different from me. So in order to validate that other persons are not just other "me"s with a massive fear as me I scratch the surface in order to be sure that "I" am not on the inside being suppressed in that person. That is something I have always done. I am doing it so that I at the end won't get hurt for believing in something that was false.
So Tom, I want to believe in you and I am just looking for a way to determine whether you are really as good as you appear or just another me. I can't use another me for anything because I know myself and I know where I have brought myself and I want to go somewhere ells.
I am sorry if I have offended you – which I hope I did not especially for the reason above.
greatoutdoors: I also believe in good and evil exist – for me and that's the problem. I do not believe in good and evil as universal truth for everyone. As I wrote before I think it is just a phenomenon that because I find it bad to be scratched with a rake that you also find it bad. If we try to label "being scratched with a rake" as bad, then what would happen if I scratched a elephant with a rake, it would probably like it because its skin is so thick it wouldn't get hurt from it making "being scratched with a rake" good.
The bad thing for me about thinking this way is that I take it to the extreme - to test if it is true. Like you do in math to ensure that a formula is valid – you try a variety of numbers and check if it still gives a correct result. When I take this thinking to the extreme I in a way feel the world dissolving around me and I feel very alone because the things that I consider true are only truly true to me and not anybody ells and I can therefore not trust anybody. This would not be a problem if I just trusted myself though.
Now what I deep deep down hope you will do now is to say that what I am writing is in no way making any sense to you and that you will correct me where I am wrong and tell me what universal truth is and back it up with down-to-earth examples that I can understand. Make me say :oh I see now"
But I guess that you can't and that will prove my own thoughts and then I am back where I started..... at my own confusion.
At this point I think I know enough to be able to develop myself spiritually. Learning to teach is going to take another decade or two. The only exception is reiki; that is easy enough that I can teach it now.
You might find this author and teacher useful:
http://www.eckharttolle.com/home.php
Pushing theory to extremes is one of my biggest talents. I have actually decided not to learn grounding exercises at one point if they only work for people living on earth. What if I wanted to go to space and live outside this solar system?
I never said I was looking for a teacher. I was just looking for a person who is TRUE in every aspect like a Jesus (just without the whole concept of Christianity) or a Buddha.
QuotePushing theory to extremes is one of my biggest talents. I have actually decided not to learn grounding exercises at one point if they only work for people living on earth. What if I wanted to go to space and live outside this solar system?
You are trying to make me say :" oh i see now " are you not ;) because that I would find it rather stupid just to try and live anywhere outside earth because that is as far as I know impossible.... well at least until they set up bases on Mars and Arnold melts those ice blocks and bring oxygen then it would be possible :wink:
But yeah I will say it " Oh i see now" but only because your methaphore for taking things to the extreme is so grotesque and really really down to earth that I can only interpreted it in that way.
I am still arguing a bit with myself whether taking theories to the extreme and traveling to another solarsystem can be compared so easily. Well I will let it rest now. Thanks for your reply Tom
lol.... I must say that trying to fast and think on the same time is rather impossible. If you don't know I started fasting 3 days ago and I am on the 54 hour now. It is really torture!
But I did experience one thing OBE related though. Last night as went to sleep I could suddenly feel my arms becoming sort of "big" like someone was blowing air into them and at the same time it felt as if I couldn't move them. But just as I thought about them that whole sensation disappeared in a second. But I felt it nevertheless!!
To answer your original question, my purpose in energy work (which I really need to start up again and stick too), is to find out what's real and what isn't. From there I'll figure out what to do next, if I get that far.
So far all I've determined is that lucid dreaming is real, energy is either real, or my body is really good at making tingling sensations and making various parts of my body feel warm, and that astral projection "might" be real, based on one experience that was far more real than any wake induced lucid dream I've ever had (those being the kind that are the most sensationally powerful that I have at any rate, although they tend to be quite short lived cause I suck).
If this is somehow selfish I don't really care. I plan on letting people know what I find out, as well as how I came about my conclusions, and I fully realize that no one will believe my vision of truth is the correct one.
I will admit that I do have selfish reasons for doing this as well. I fully intend to exploit anything I learn to help me along in life. I will try to use anything I learn to help others as well, if possible.
Quote from: Seeker of MatterI never said I was looking for a teacher. I was just looking for a person who is TRUE in every aspect like a Jesus (just without the whole concept of Christianity) or a Buddha.
QuotePushing theory to extremes is one of my biggest talents. I have actually decided not to learn grounding exercises at one point if they only work for people living on earth. What if I wanted to go to space and live outside this solar system?
Grounding is so you can energy's yourself from the energy's of Gaia the earth.
You are trying to make me say :" oh i see now " are you not ;) because that I would find it rather stupid just to try and live anywhere outside earth because that is as far as I know impossible.... well at least until they set up bases on Mars and Arnold melts those ice blocks and bring oxygen then it would be possible :wink:
But yeah I will say it " Oh i see now" but only because your methaphore for taking things to the extreme is so grotesque and really really down to earth that I can only interpreted it in that way.
I am still arguing a bit with myself whether taking theories to the extreme and traveling to another solarsystem can be compared so easily. Well I will let it rest now. Thanks for your reply Tom
lol.... I must say that trying to fast and think on the same time is rather impossible. If you don't know I started fasting 3 days ago and I am on the 54 hour now. It is really torture!
But I did experience one thing OBE related though. Last night as went to sleep I could suddenly feel my arms becoming sort of "big" like someone was blowing air into them and at the same time it felt as if I couldn't move them. But just as I thought about them that whole sensation disappeared in a second. But I felt it nevertheless!!
In my perspective of understanding inner work and energy work is that it is done to balance yourself to regain the control of yourself, to bring in light of yourself, the knowledge that you learn of yourself so that you can in knowing love of yourself know love of other self's "other people" when the perception of understanding what it is to be as a piece in the divine design and consciously accept this piece, new awareness's awaken.
You can not learn to love others if you can not learn to love yourself first, in loving yourself and bringing in your light and awakening to it you pulsate that very energy to others by example of yourself, this is not selfish for your intention was to understand the One that all is and in understanding the One that all is then you feel the love and connection to the infinite all which you are a piece of.
peace hope helps
In short, what it comes down to is that it is irrelevant what we are doing energy work for to your life, only what purpose you will put the knowledge you gain from your own work, energy or otherwise. Selfish or selfless, the choice is not only subjective to the person looking at it, but the choice is yours alone to judge.
To date, my main goal is to improve capabilities such as memory, concentration, QI and similar. I've test mental enhancement capabilities through energy work effectiveness through chess games. It really works.