Forget the brain chemicals... what is it on a spiritual plane?
I have my ideas but I want to hear your thoughts!
If one is depressed and suddenly dies, will the depression carry on or just disappear giving way to total freedom?
:)
I think that depression is the state when one is controlled by his own negative emotions/thoughts instead of controling them...
I am 100% sure that it'll not disappear after death ant it'll turn afterlfe into hell.
Ivanda: suicide is the wrong path, do not take it.
Me?
Why? Never would! I had depression, but now I'm out of it. :D
Quote from: IvandaMe?
Why? Never would! I had depression, but now I'm out of it. :D
Good to hear :) Seriously though, what would you take from reading this:
Quote from: IvandaIf one is depressed and suddenly dies, will the depression carry on or just disappear giving way to total freedom?
To me it sounds like either you're depressed and going to commit suicide, or that someone else is and you're going to put them out of their misery...
To me, if you die, it's not going to make you any happier than you are in life, and this isn't just propoganda to get people to avoid the bad path, it just makes sense. Why would death make life better? The pain in death and the horror of seeing people mourn (or not mourn) for you would probably depress you even more.
Oh common, please!!!!! :lol:
I just asked because I wanted to know people`s opinion. Physical diseases do leave us when we die, right? Depression is controversial though. Some say it is all brain chemicals and it can be corrected with drugs just like any other disease (well, more of less), but others believe that it is something else. I got rid of my depression by opening my heart to God, that was what I had been missing.... I am much more happy now. So for me depression was a Teacher!
However, when I was depressed several times I thought I may die. I did not have the energy to pick myself up. I could not eat, could not sleep, was paralised by panic attacks. So, if I did die.... because I was too weak...would I find myself in hell with no way out? :shock: or would God give me a chance to change something even after death?!
It think it is normal to muse over experience like that even if it never comes back. 8)
Ivanda,
A good subject to bring up. It seems I'm not one given to depression. I may have felt twinges or hints of it a couple of times. This seemed to be just enough to recognize the feel. As I recall, a psycological pain of sorts.
I am more familiar with melancholy. This has come to be more popularly known as a soft reflecting mood state. The state in which is sometimes described as "getting high on feeling low". Emotions can be therapeutic.
The differences between the two are intensity and length of time spent in such a state.
I suspect that depression can present itself in physical disorders with or without the acknowledged mood state.
In a visual sense, d. has been described as a dark cloud hovering about.
Anything that can be temporarily stopped by drugs probably wont continue after death. Depression can be stopped for a few hours with some strong drug or combination of them. I dont know which, but I'm sure some will make you feel so good you'll forget about depression while you're high. I'm not saying to take or not take drugs. The point is most or all of it is in your brain and probably wont continue after your brain is gone.
beavis,
drugs are NOT the answer nor the cure. For example, alcohol is a known depressant, even though at first it makes u high.
Brain, yeah, but after my own experience I believe now that spirit can be stronger... if we only ask for it, it can balance the brain chemistry. I don`t know if it makes sense at all :) , but attitude does make a difference.
wisp,
lucky u!
Well, to me D. was more like a dark pit, with no light shining in. Feeling of doom and hopelessness is so overwhelming that, I believe, there is no hell worse than that. :roll:
I wasnt saying drugs cure depression. I also wasnt talking about if its right or useful to use or not use drugs. I was only saying them as an example to prove my point that if you're depressed when you die, that probably does not continue after death.
I disagree that spirit is strong enough to control brain despite the drugs in it, and often it wouldnt want to. Rat poison is such a drug.
I'm sorry for misunderstanding u. :oops:
Have u heard about Rasputin and how he was killed? :wink:
I still remain believing that spirit can change brain chemistry. It all depends what we focus on. :)
Someone is clinically depressed when he/she believes they must see a medical professional to treat their symptoms.
What does Rasputin have to do with any of this?
Nothing at all, crazy Russian Magus that he was...
Depression isn't just some brain thing that gets treated by drugs, it is definitely more than that. You can mess with your brain using drugs to try and cure it by dulling your senses and emotions, but that does not cure the depression, though it may help you cope until you can destroy the root of it.
The way he died...how cyanide could not kill him. So perhaps it was his spirit keeping him alive?
Perhaps, but you can build up an immunity to toxins, certain people would eat certain amounts of poison every day, taking more and more. Rasputin could have done this.
I wouldn't put it past that guy to be kept alive by only his spirit though... but if that were true he wouldn't have been killed would he?
Ya, well, who knows what actually happened. However, they had to shoot him many times to bring him down for good.
I think we have completely deviated from the topic here :lol: I thank all of you who responded, quite interesting opinions...
Consuming poison builds up immunity? Great!!! Cause I drink too much.
Didn't he get shot and still survived after that?
Anyway, if there is a reason for the existence of physical reality, as I believe there is, then there is no easy way to escape the struggles in life. Consequently if this was a way to attain true and permanent spiritual freedom from things such as depression then no one would learn anything.
Alex
I tend to agree with CaCoDemon on this when he says that:
Quote''I think that depression is the state when one is controlled by his own negative emotions/thoughts instead of controlling them...
One of my good friend have the ''maniac-depression'' ''disease'' and it is something particular that he had to deal with before having a big crisis and going to the hospital for a certain number of weeks (I didn't knew him at that time). People tend to be afraid of those who have this problem but the question is wheter it is only brain ''chemicals'' inbalances that cause this. Of course, lithium needs to be taken most of the time and he also needs to take some kind of ''anti-psychotics''. Last week, he surprised me when he told me that before the big crisis he had he was seeing some weird shadows; he told me that it is a side-effect of this ''disease''. Of course, we can debate on wheter it is or not influenced by Negs.
When you are in the ''down'' stage, you have trouble functioning at work and in life generally (like any depression) and when your on the ''high'' stage, you may spend a lot of money and become highly productive; like doing renovation in your house at midnight....
One of the reason (and popular with other people also) came from the job he was working; the boss was manipulative and he didn't helped him at all. Sometimes I tell him that pills only mask the problem and maybe some meditation work might help him a lot.
QuoteDidn't he get shot and still survived after that?
He got up after being shot in chest and tried to run away, but his enemies shot him several more times and that was it. (There is a good movie "Rasputin" , I just watched it...very sad ending though).
QuoteAnyway, if there is a reason for the existence of physical reality, as I believe there is, then there is no easy way to escape the struggles in life. Consequently if this was a way to attain true and permanent spiritual freedom from things such as depression then no one would learn anything.
Yes, there isn`t an easy way out. I don`t really know about permanent lasting depression, but the situational depression definitely shows what things he/she is most dependent on, meaning that when these things crumble or are being taken away, he or she loses will to live. I guess, what it finally leads to (if one is willing to accept) is moral freedom... Depression did that to me. I'm much more free and happy now than before.
:) [/quote]
People who drink more, need more to get drunk.
People addicted to Tylenol need more and more to cure their buzz.
I'd assume the same would go with poison, though you'd obviously need to be more careful about the rate you build up at.
According to Hellboy, yes, Rasputin survived :)
Can you build up immunity to uranium? If theres a nuclear war in some other country, you better hope so, and start building immunity. Who wants to eat the first piece?
Quote from: beavisCan you build up immunity to uranium? If theres a nuclear war in some other country, you better hope so, and start building immunity. Who wants to eat the first piece?
hah, reeally.... me first, me me me me. yah right, i woulnt touch that [EDIT] unless it were true of course and i knew we were having a nuc. war.
very interesting subject and one that I have thought about a lot since my mother is chronically depressed.
It is hard to know the answer since I am not sure if one really knows what a spirit is entirely made of and what exactly of our lives survives after deaths.
But if we keep it simple and we think that our spirit is the same as ourselves minus the physical body, then yes I would think that depression could very well follow us at death. Usually depression is deeply rooted by certain experience that where traumatizing. If we think that our soul is here to learn and grow trough physical experience, then there is a good chance that it holds that information too. As long as it is not healed it will follow you.
now on the other hand we cant underestimate the damage it does to the brain. A prolonged depression tend to condition us that way. This is where chemical imbalance comes in, when the problem has been ignored for too long. For these people it is easier to first heal their conscious mind, then go to the root.
My mother as an example is such a beautiful spirit and a great loving heart. But her mind is clouded and she does not even recognized who she really is. Her heart tells her one thing, but voices in her head tell her many others negative, contradictory thoughts. This has been going on for more than twenty five years now, her brain is probably all programmed into a chaotic way. Now even before she can heal her spirit side of herself she has to recondition herself into a more positive way of life. This is no easy task
For a better healing, she would needs to restart at point zero, unlearn everything and relearn the proper way.
as said earlier pills only dull the pain. I know since she took them and when she stopped she was back to square one.
all of this paragraph to say that for those extreme cases I think that the pain would be less when they die. The spiritual pain would be there, but the brain confusion would be out of the way.
Still although the physical can be an obstacle into healing depression, I still believe that death is not the answer and someone will learn a lot from overcoming all of these challenges and come out of it stronger than ever before. A hard and tedious path but full of wonderful lessons.
now it may not be that simple, perhaps our spirit is more complicated than what proposed above. But for the sake of this discussion I will leave it at that :wink:
ThePortal
Spirituality is very closely related to cognition via awareness and via "I create reality." In this case, I just thought I'd link to the ten common so-called cognitive distortions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion) that lead to depression and other psychological illness.
These are the things that cognitive therapists look for. It should be mentioned that cognitive therapy is not common in the way it asserts that thoughts cause emotion.
I have been wondering how effective cognitive therapy actually is. Sounds promising though.
Thanks to all who have been participating in this thread. I am still looking for ways to eliminate anxiety from my life. Faith and communicating with positive people have really helped me...
well what if youre just depressed bcuz you dont want to live? and you suddenly die, i think it might be cured -_-
Quote
well what if youre just depressed bcuz you dont want to live? and you suddenly die, i think it might be cured -_-
No. You still continue to live - it's just life in other(astral?) world. Only way to complete destruction is meditation. With hard work you can achieve total destruction of consciousness by destroying ego. But I think that's a very pessimistic goal, isn't it better to try achieve BETTER life, fight for it with your whole being. Even the fight will be much more enjoyable than destroying yourself, and just think what will happen when you'll reach the goal. And if you lack motivation and can't experience happiness, I have some advice - it may seem strange, but trying to send healing energy to people is the best way to have MORE and higher quality energy, motivation, etc. I don't know how it works, but effects seem very noticeable. I have to add that I don't believe in all this Karma(as understood by New Agers) BS.