DEFINING Relationships

alexd · January 05, 2005, 08:24:50

Hi everyone,

It is absolutely driving me insane that we have to define relationships. For example we have to say "we are boyfriend and girlfriend" or "we are a couple" or "we are friends" or "we are friends with benefits" ect. What does each of these actually entail? What is the root purpose of such titles and statements? Security? I have gotten to the point where I just want to say "I Am" next time my girlfriend asks me "why do you act *this* way if you love me, you should act like *this* if you want to be my bf, otherwise we are just friends". This "labelling" seems to take a great toll on freedom and liberation. My question is why can't people live as a couple and let their relationship be governed by moral truths and the sense of righteousness and devotion to each other? Why must we place chains on ourselves instead of just accepting a union as is? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this just overanalyzing the reality of a partnership. Sorry for ranting, I am having relationship problems at the moment and this is driving me crazy. If you think there is valid reason for such labelling I would love to hear your thoughts. I hope there is sense in what I'm saying.

Thanks
Alex

You · January 05, 2005, 08:58:06

People put labels on their relationships so they know the limits of what they can do, and what they can expect from their partner, as well as conveying these interests to others outside of the relationship. It's rather useful. Just remember to make the labels suit what you want, not make your actions suit the label.

Perhaps you should go into more detail about your little problem instead of just complaining about general annoyances, that way we can be more helpful in making your love stronger.

wisp · January 06, 2005, 16:32:32

alexd,
It does sound like your significant other

is defining you by her own standards. The old saying, "Never give someone an ultimatum unless you want to lose the relationship", is true. She has stated her expectations, the next move is yours.

You either abide by the rules she sets or you are placed in another catagory to her. Take it or leave it. You didn't mention any compromise on her part, unless the being "friends" is the compromise. Why not try out her "friend" role? It sounds like it might be a good buffer zone fow now. And then see what happens. You (or she) may find a better situation or a door opening for one or both of you.You didn't mention any other potential relationships (or situations) which could open up.Sometimes that's how new relationships (including the two of you) can develop.

Personally, I believe in not hopping to a new (different) relationship too fast. Unfortunately, many times one party will have his/her eye on a new horizen while at the same time sabotaging the present. Hopefully this isn't happening. This is one good reason to space relationships. A good friend is hard to find. See what kind of friends the two of you can be to each other. If your needing more space, maybe she is too?

*warning...what is a successful relationship anyway? I never found one.So be careful of what I say unless you enjoy the life of solitude (which I do)

.

sublunary · January 06, 2005, 19:14:29

Defining relationships offers stability and predictability.

*~*~

MisterJingo · January 06, 2005, 19:33:19

Titles are nothing in and of themselves, they are a simple communication tool to describe a bond between people. Your post seems confused in regards to words and actions. What is the difference between living as a exclusive couple and saying 'we are boyfriend and girlfriend'? By definition a relationship infringes on our personal freedom, but usually the consequences of the relationship make us decide such a loss of freedom is worth it - or not, in the case of breakups.

You · January 08, 2005, 00:37:29

Not necessarily predictability, that assumes people let the labels control them. Not necessarily stability either, excepting the influence of others' perceptions.

alexd · January 08, 2005, 08:18:24

True, it does offer stability I guess. I think the bigger problem is defining a relationship within it's self. So many people choose to be friends with benefits after some time, because relationships are too complicated. But why do they have to be? By defining them I believe we are making them complicated. wisp, it's interesting what you said but I definantly don't want to be solely friends with her, I have friends already. But have you noticed how much easier it is to get along with a good friend than in a relationship at times. What is the cause of this?

I've just been noticing lately how associated people have become with language and its supposed meanings. For example, every time I kiss my girlfriend on the cheek she will become frustrated because "only friends do that" and will think that I "meant" something by it. But kissing anywhere else will not lead to this conclusion. Can you see how ridiculous this is? I guess this is a problem of societal and cultural shaping in belief systems, as well as personal ideas about things. This is probably the main issue. I guess it is the same as questioning your own beliefs but only doing it together in a relationship, which would make it much more challenging. But it's interesting to observe how our beliefs limit us in this way anyhow.

Alex

You · January 08, 2005, 16:34:21

If your girlfriend does that she has some problems you need to work out together.

Legend · January 08, 2005, 21:02:52

The lower self is responsible for all of this. Why can't you have many g/f? Why can't she have many b/f? Why is there any need to have a g/f or b/f in the first place? What do you give them which you cannot give anyone else? If you analyze things strongly, you'll notice that there is little difference between a best friend and a g/f (Of course there's the occasional sex but that's arguably available outside a g/f, b/f relationship. and there's also the fuzzy stomach feeling which is again related to your lower self (esteem), but in truth, there's little difference).

What drives all of this are feelings of jealousy, possession, power, .... Why do you think that so many relationships fall apart? People simply aren't made to live with one single other person. Socially speaking, it's not accepted to have many b/f, g/f so to speak, but take a second to think of the impact this would have if we could. We would basically need to let go of jealousy and possessive feelings we generate and we could "love" everyone equally.

Eventually we may get rid of theses self-less notions, but we'll need a fundamentally different society to achieve that. One that lives more as a community than a set of people.

Quote from: alexdHi everyone,

It is absolutely driving me insane that we have to define relationships. For example we have to say "we are boyfriend and girlfriend" or "we are a couple" or "we are friends" or "we are friends with benefits" ect. What does each of these actually entail? What is the root purpose of such titles and statements? Security? I have gotten to the point where I just want to say "I Am" next time my girlfriend asks me "why do you act *this* way if you love me, you should act like *this* if you want to be my bf, otherwise we are just friends". This "labelling" seems to take a great toll on freedom and liberation. My question is why can't people live as a couple and let their relationship be governed by moral truths and the sense of righteousness and devotion to each other? Why must we place chains on ourselves instead of just accepting a union as is? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this just overanalyzing the reality of a partnership. Sorry for ranting, I am having relationship problems at the moment and this is driving me crazy. If you think there is valid reason for such labelling I would love to hear your thoughts. I hope there is sense in what I'm saying.

Thanks
Alex

You · January 10, 2005, 03:15:37

I'm all for polyamorygamy, but I'm pretty sure there are differences between a friend and a girlfriend besides sex, since you can have a girlfriend who you don't have sex with and still be romantic. Romance is the difference.

Legend · January 10, 2005, 03:31:35

Define "romance". If you do so, you'll find that you'll have a pretty hard time splitting the line between g/f and friend once more. I'm romantic with my friends (by the definition of romantic). I'll bring them gifts once in a while... will kiss them (on the cheeck; duh), etc...

Quote from: TyciolI'm all for polyamorygamy, but I'm pretty sure there are differences between a friend and a girlfriend besides sex, since you can have a girlfriend who you don't have sex with and still be romantic. Romance is the difference.

alexd · January 10, 2005, 08:45:41

No romance between gf/bf is different.
I think there is a serious problem with having many partners at the same time, but I just can't put my finger on it.
Wouldn't security be another thing that places a line between friends and lovers?

It's interesting though why a relationship has to be worked at to maintain but a friendship doesn't.

Alex

Legend · January 10, 2005, 20:42:07

It's diffrent because we have all been "programmed" to think/act that way, but theoretically, nothing stops you from making it the same. Some religions (I'm not a part of it for the books), actually operate under this type of phylosophy, so it's really a cultural thing and nothing more.

Quote from: alexdNo romance between gf/bf is different.
I think there is a serious problem with having many partners at the same time, but I just can't put my finger on it.
Wouldn't security be another thing that places a line between friends and lovers?

It's interesting though why a relationship has to be worked at to maintain but a friendship doesn't.

Alex

sublunary · January 10, 2005, 22:23:26

The purpose of defining anything is to aid prediction.

Legend · January 10, 2005, 22:36:44

I agree if the definition comes after the prediciton =). All terms need to be defined prior to it for anything to make sense. Words are so weak!

Quote from: sublunaryThe purpose of defining anything is to aid prediction.

alexd · January 11, 2005, 00:49:02

Why does love have to make sense?
Why does it need prediction?
Obviously there are only a few titles that people can use to define their relationship. Each of these titles probably has some original definition. But each person's own ideas are far broader than a definition can stipulate. Isn't it easier to just drop the description? Perhaps we already know what we want out of a relationship and what our partner wants, so this leaves it quite pointless to reiterate the definition of the "type" of relationship.
Surely there wouldn't be any confusion or mass hysteria if we just discontinued a large amount of social labelling. Isn't this branching out from the same systems that label races, such as "black" or "Asian"? This kind of system seems quite obsolete and limiting to modern society.
And as I said before, a social contract between two people shouldn't even exist if they love each other, and for other relationships such as friendships the term "friend" would remain still way too vague.

Alex

sublunary · January 11, 2005, 12:54:29

Prediction = certainty.

Certainty = stability.

Stability = equilibrium.

Equilibrium = harmony.

Ideally, this should all happen at the unconscious level, without explicit communication and terminology. Unfortunately, people are scared of the future and seek solace in symbolic representation.

The AlphaOmega · January 15, 2005, 14:44:25

I'm with you Alexd, but I can understand the title aspect of it. It's unnecissary to put labels on things if you've established how you feel about each other. But, as it was said before, I think it's just so people know how far they can and can't take things with other people. But jealousy will happen no matter what the title is, even if there isn't one. If you like someone and they are flirting, you get jealous and angry. If you are in love and they are you "girlfriend", and they flirt with someone, the emotion is the same. So basically title or not title, neither really matters. The feelings are the same and boundaries must be established to keep those feelings in tact.

alexd · January 15, 2005, 21:21:42

Yes exactly. And I think by outlining the boundaries we are even more so promoting going outside them.
For example, if you tell your girlfriend she shouldn't flirt with your friends because she is your girlfriend, it is more likely to encourage her to do it anyway.
On the other hand trusting her in the first place without having to tell her would probably be a better idea.

Alex

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DEFINING Relationships