Hmm.. I´ve been thinking on this one...

[Hephaestus]

UH!

lol

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

Hahaaha, I didn´t mezz your head up to much I hope moonman  Did you get any of my "mindstorming"?
 Up for the trip still?

      Take care, Jinn-Qui Bush sr

- Your focus determines your reality -

[Hephaestus]

LMAO, Who you calling Moonman, Lunaman http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>  LOL
Im still up for the trip but theres the very small matter of I cant seem to get away from my body. hehe

I get what you're saying in your post BTW, although it does take a bit of translating first. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>

[fredhedd]

i'm going to attempt to answer this becaues i genuinely feel that i've been privelaged enough to experience this oneness a few times in my life.  keep in mind though that this explanation and any explanation at that, in words, does the experience no justice.  it's very important though to know that anything you hear that is related to this is coming from someone who has experienced it and it is being canned up in an explanation in words.   just knowing what was said about the experience is in a way pointless because it really doesnt help you experience it for yourself.  if anything you just remember the sayings and such when you do actually have such an experience, and you think 'ok, this is what they were talking about.'  

this will be a very lame, brief description that i will offer to better help.  the oneness that is spoken of, i've found, is indescribable and is oftened termed in ways that are hard to, if not impossible to grasp.  w/ all of the metaphors and paradox's out there it's just not gonna be able to be plainly put.  

you, as in what you believe to be yourself, have a foot.  you know that the foot you  have is a part of you and you don't have to think about it to know that.  if you were to be asked what is more a part of you, that foot or the computer screen you are looking at, you would most likely say your foot.  if, when you ever experience this oneness there will be a feeling and realization that the computer screen, california, grapefruit, all of existence is as much you as your foot.  i would say this was impossible to grasp w/out experiencing it for yourself.  if you truly accept yourself in those terms then there is nothing left to be not accepted.  if you truly realize yourself in those terms you can't rightfully say what is wrong and right.  there is no line to divide because it's all the same thing.  i don't want to come across here like i know everything about this.  i just know what my experience was and what it came to be and what it is now.  if any of this is unclear let me know, i'll be happy to post whatever i can to help provide a better understanding to something that can't realy be understood

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

You are right, the experience are so beyond words it can´t be put on paper.(or screen for that matter)  
 I feel you to have really experienced this, and I like what you said about the foot etc., when I had this experience a few months ago ("described" under another topic) I was completely blown away, and well quite frankly as long as the experience lasted (about 20-25 minutes before it gradually t"ook off") I felt really ONE with everything, the swans swimming in front of me, the birds flying over my head, the trees, passing people who stared like maniacs on me I noticed without me doing nothing, I wonder if they picked up something or if it just was my smile from ear to ear  It´s the by far most awesome feeling I ever had the joy to experience, and I miss it!! I know I will "have it back" some day, in this life or after "death", which makes it easier to cope with though...

I ran across a website just now; it´s http://www.francislucille.com/     It states:
"...Non-duality is an experience in which there is no separation between subject and object; a "me" and the rest of the universe; a "me" and God. It is the experience of consciousness, our true nature, which reveals itself as absolute happiness, love and beauty. Consciousness is defined as that, whatever that is, which is aware of these very words right here, right now.

A sage is one who knowingly lives as consciousness. Since awareness is impersonal and universal, there is only one sage beyond the apparent distinctions of race, gender, age, etc.  A sage is not necessarily a spiritual teacher, and a spiritual teacher is not necessarily a sage."

It is the experience of consciousness, our true nature, which reveals itself as absolute happiness, love and beauty.   This was exactly how it revealed itself to me; through absolute happiness, love and beauty!!!

Nowadays when I´m in a low mood or having negative feelings/thoughts I know what can be instead, and I know it is my state of mind playing pranks on me, it is not how things are - it is just how my sick (?) mind interpretates (sp?) it all...  which in turn makes it easier to break through the self created illusions!´ So the experience helps me in daily life even though the experience itself has faded...  man o man, imagine living in that state of oneness all the time - one would be like a walking buddha!!  I guess I was a true sage for those 20-25 minutes at least

  Take care my friends, Rikard http://216.40.249.192/mysmilies/contrib/duckman/alien.gif" border=0>

- Your focus determines your reality -

[kakkarot]

qui gon, you say that our true nature was revealed as absolute happiness, love and beauty, but what about the other side of our true nature. to deny that dismall sadness, hatred, and ugliness exists is to surely contradict all that you have just stated, but to deny that they are also a part of true human nature is to bias what you believe humans are, and therefore is to cloud your mind with concieved notions. after all, it is impossible to deny that some people have been overtaken by complete anguish and sorrow, that some people have hated so much that they would torture and kill others, and that some people are just completely repulsive (on a spiritual level, physical level, or mental level).

so it is possible to fully accept yourself without fully accepting these are part of who you are as well?

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

Hello Master Kakkarot , perhaps the contradictions you find are because 1) You missunderstood / I ain´t clear enough, or 2) I am contradicting myself (most likely alternative do you not think, haha...  hell my mind isn´t designed to "cope" with this and least of all put it into words; I do not think I am high IQ´er...)

 Anyways; when I said that to be able to accept oneself one must accept everything else, I meant everything else, including what we call hatred, sorrow etc - that is if we acknowledge their existance... (to acknowledge their existance, we must except duality, which contradicts Oneness. If Oneness is the only "reality", then duality is mer an illusion meaning what springs from duality is also an illusion, or shall we label it as an false interpretation? All our definitions springs from duality do they not?)

 I do not however consider for example hatred, sorrow and sadness a part of our "True Nature", I see them more like clouded "interpretations" of the "love, happiness and beauty" which really are our True Nature residing in the state of One - the essential state/existance beyond all the illusions our mind creates and holds so strongly... and I believe all these illusions springs from the master grand illusion of separation from the One.  
 
I am making no sense whatsoever am I?  I guess this just isn´t "discussion material"...

  To be honest, it feels kinda "wrong" trying to describe what - if I am right - simply IS, has always been and will always be...  

     Another "mindstorming" message, I don´t have the stamina to edit it up -   and I am not sure if it would do any good....

  I hadn´t been reading much about "this" (still haven´t) or give it much thought before the experience I had, but during that experience I really FELT like I was tuned into to the ultimate frequency, I FELT as if I was myself at the same time as I was everything else - beyond describing, as well as beyond wonderful...   nothing could beat that state of "being everything", feeling as if the trees were a part of my "body", feeling that supreme harmony, happiness and beauty. It was as if my ego suddenly vanished, but I was still me just in a somewhat altered state, beyond personality somehow.
 Quite frankly I don´t give a **** if it I can never describe "it", all I want is to be "there" again, "home"......  and I wish for everyone to experience it and I am sure everyone will - one day...

   =)

- Your focus determines your reality -

[fredhedd]

that experience fading is one thing i've tried to make last.  what is good about an experience if you can't remember it enough to affect you ?  remembering this has been a goal of mine for some time now.  the best i've been able to do is to write down the experience as i was having it.  the things i wrote down were so profound that it sitll impacts me pretty good when i read them agian.  i've also managed to memorize most of the visual experience as it was happening.  it would be great if i could describe it but...
it's so easy to forget what happened and how it felt.  at the time you are thinking about your life and how you maybe have found a better way to live and how things all make sense now.  there have been times that i've thought the way i've lived my life so far wasn't the way that i actually wanted to deep down and that i was going to make changes now that would keep me in tune w/ this experience.  the memory fades along w/ the intent ever so fast.  even now w/ this paper in front of me w/ the words i've written which include 'i feel like i'm god', it's hard to keep everything where i want.  i can only assume through a  spiritual life can one actually grasp that eternity that i've felt.  it's more like part of it instead of a pre-requisite though.  it's not something that you feel that you have to do in order to 'get it'.

two or three of my friends also have had the experience and when we try and discuss it we just end up nodding and smiling and reassuring the other that they can't describe it but we know what they are talking about.  i believe we've all resorted to 'hey, ya know that thing?....which in turn just revives the thought in our minds so that we are both thinking about it at the same time. as soon as we are both thinking about it the both of us know we are 'there'.   that's really the only way to 'talk' about it.

[kakkarot]

i understand now what you are saying, and though i don't agree with this belief completely, i truely hope that i am wrong in your case, just wrong enough that you can be happy with "it" without me having to be unhappy without this "it" you cannot describe

~kakkarot

Secret of Secrets

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

http://www.jamezbrown.com/mysmilies/contrib/dvv/cwmddd.gif" border=0>

Sure you can be happy without "it", I have been happy alot of times to of course during my life on Earth, but on another "level" so to speak...
   Be like water //Qui-Gon

- Your focus determines your reality -

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

... today ; Is it possible to FULLY accept oneself without FULLY accept everything else?´  If there really is no dualism - if everything is really one - then the only way one can accept oneself is through accepting everything is it not?  

And one would think if one doesn´t accept oneself one isn´t very "spiritually" developed - meaning, thinking in these terms, if one doesn´t accept everything (all events, all life, in short all) one isn´t clearminded enough to see "the truth" (...is out there;) .........  The old saying "You shall see the truth and the truth shall set you free" must be related to the ability to accept everything as they are, non-resistance in other words...  cause how could one be free if one couldn not accept everything?´    Then... hmm.. then the truth has got to do with everything being okay since it must have do with acceptance of everything there is - and if everything is okay then everything oughtta be One, cause otherwise everything couldn´t be okay could it.... hmm...    darn it, why was I equipped with such an dwelling and curious mind *lol*

    Keep smiling, Rikard...  love you!´

- Your focus determines your reality -