The meaning/purpose of life

[Nayru]

I agree with you.. But at the same time disagree (eh?).

I agree when you say:

quote:Nobody living in a "perfect world" would realise how "perfect" it really is. I think they would be more bored than optimistic about their "utopia."

I also agree when you say:

quote:Variety of feelings makes the feelings defined, and thus useful, and thus completing the spices and mixture and overall DRAMA that is life.

But I disagree when you say:

quote:Which is also exactly why I question psionics, ki, and all of those things. If there is no enemy, then why do it at all? For fun? The fun wouldn't last.

No, I don't disagree because of the example, since many here by now know that I love psionics.
No, I disagree because of the idea behind it. I like soccer. I like playing with the ball, alone, in my backyard. But I have no opponent, noone plays with me. But I do not care, I like it the way it is and I still, after 14 years, like to play soccer all by myself.
That little sentence of yours, no offence, sounds like a child really hoping he would get in some kind of cool adventure he once saw in a movie or read in a book. I love reading and I always had such hopes up as a kid. As a matter of fact, I had some kind of 'adventure' people think are only possible in books and stuff. In fact, it was something psionic. An enemy, yes. I will not tell what happened, only the person in question and I know what happened and I wish to keep it like that. But I assure you that it was no fun. Absolutely not. I ruined an entire year of my life because of it. As I said, as a kid I hoped that such things would happen.. But I never imagined things could get so dangerous.
After awhile I grew a bit more mature and gave up on those hopes, and I saw the real face of life. Since then I never wanted anything like that happen, I didn't wish for it, I loved Psionics for what it was, for the fun I had with constructbuilding, etc. That little experience of mine did change a lot of my view on psionics, but not, not in a positive way. In fact I did not find Psionics fun when that happened, not at all, I even considered to quit with it. That experience did not make me realize how fun Psionics is, no, on the contrary.

Negativity is not always a boost for positivity, in fact it can kill every bit of positivity. That experience I had made me consider to entirely quit practising the thing I love to do, namely Psionics. I can give you more non-psionic related examples. As a kid I had a friend who badly betrayed me. Ever since I never trusted anyone fully, and each time I saw some betray someone I got wild of anger. My friend betraying me was a bad thing, negativity, but it did not boost positivity. It did not show me how good friendship is. It killed every friendship I had back then. That's not something I call positivity.

The purpose of life.. I think that's different for everyone. Each person sets a purpose somewhere in the beginning of his/her life. Like wanting to be a policeofficer, or to be in the military, wanting to become the greatest pianist ever, even greater than Mozart or Beethoven, or perhaps a wish to become a teacher, or the wish to own a big compagny like microsoft. I have set my purpose too though I will not share it.. That is way too personal.

[The AlphaOmega]

I'm in the same boat.  I agree with some, and disagree with other things you said.  But what fun would philosophy be if everyone agreed?  I definately believe that we were created because God didn't want to be alone, but not because He wanted to make drama.  God is love and compassion, and what good is being loving and compassionate if you have no one to show such feelings toward.  So He made his children to complete Himself.  
As for hate and anger, etc, I don't believe that God created these.  God created us in His likeness, and in doing so endowed us with His powers.  But I believe we as humans, having His power of creation, created the negativity we see around us.  It is a part of this life, but it's possible that in time negativity will not exist anymore.  It will however as long as we believe that it is a fact of life that cannot be changed.  Once we change our perception and realize that to be hurtful in any way is meaningless we can move on to the next phase of our evolution.  Take war for example.  War has always existed, and therefor mankind believes that it will always exist.  We must fight wars as long as there are people (Hitler, Osama, etc) who desire only to destroy their fellow humans, for we must protect that which is good.  But there may come a time when each individual sees himself as part of the whole and is wholly accepting of that, and then war will no longer be a factor because we will not desire to fight eachother.  
I do think you are right about this world being here so we can appreciate.  If we knew nothing but love before this world, then we would not truly understand how vastly important this emotion towards our brothers and sisters is.  Christ said "you must first know sorrow before you can know joy".  The truth is that this life is a journey because we are in the dark about reality.  In this life and the after life everything is Gods will, but only in the after life can we comprehend this as OUR true desire.  In this world we believe things blindly and wrongly.  One persons definition of right and wrong is different from anothers.  We seek the answers because in this life we are not certain of them... we have forgotten our true selves.  Learning to accept humanity without judgement is the only goal one must strive for in this life, for that is our true nature.

[Fat_Turkey]

I agree with the fact that me questioning psionics etc. was a little childish. But, now that I see that point of view, I guess it is kind of fun.

But take your friendship. It may not have boosted positivity in any way, but it would probably make a friendship that IS completely trustworthy all the more meaningful, because people in general are pretty much a bag of backstabbers, even if they don't realise it.

"You must first know sorrow before you can know joy"

I completely agree with that. But judgement is a part of our makeup, possibly part of the ego, which is largely misconceived as being a bad thing. Ego is a part of us. We cannot function at 100% by missing one organ, for example, an eye or a kidney or even your heart or brain. So, if we took ego out of the entire equation of our existance than we are not functioning properly. Yes, ego does get out of hand, because we use it unwisely. But, ego can be a form of wisdom within itself. So anybody who thinks it is wise to get rid of ego to some extent or even fully is a fool in my eyes. Anger is a form of wisdom. Anger mainly comes from ego. Therefore, ego is a form of wisdom.

Forgetting our true selves? Damn, that's like saying that everything on this earthly existance is nothing but a waste of time if we've "forgotten our true selves." Bull. I am me. Thinking that we have forgotten who we are (truly) is a bit of an illusion in my eyes. The only thing we've forgotten is control over those parts of us that cause bad things like war to happen. We have forgotten control over acceptance and trying not to judge too harshly. That is not to say that we cannot judge, I mean, not judging people at all is like saying that a rapist is just another part of life. We have to judge, it is a part of us, but being leniant is very important as well.

I think that is all I have to say for now. If I had anything in my mind while reading your very well-thought out replies, I probably forgot by now.

Thanks.

-FT

[Coffee]

Since I don't believe in God, I can't justify my chaotic life with some divine purpose.  As such, I believe it is my duty as a human to find answers, solve riddles, to persevere, to struggle towards whatever purpose I have.  

In my experience on Earth, I have never done anything that fulfilled me; e.g., accomplishing something is invigorating of course but then I say: "what's next?"  I am never fulfilled, I always want more.  The only thing that has ever been satisfying is the struggle.

I don't think God made us because he was bored or incomplete.  I think a perfect God would be complete with or without drama.  If he was going to create anything, he would create more perfect beings.  Think about it like this:  have you ever got tired of playing with your little sister/brother?  I'm sure God would feel the same way.  He would probably rather create beings that are on the same level as him.  (Does that mean that God is an imperfect dramatic person?)

Anyways, I think that if our life has meaning, it is to accomplish things.  We struggle so we will overcome, and we are passionate about struggling so we will continue to struggle.

[bomohwkl]

The very essence of existence is the NEED to be happy. If you feel unhappy for billions and billions of years (in God terms) what is the point of existence?

The purpose of life is to achieve greatest happiness. There are different levels of happiness.

Negative and positive exist in order to provide CONTRAST for people who are INTELLIGENT enough to make conscious choice of their actions in order to achieve higher happiness.It is quite difficult to learn lessons of life without making some mistakes. The only way is to study SELF.

[Fat_Turkey]

Very, VERY well said, bomohwkl. Thanks for your reply[]


~FT

[Coffee]

How can you prove that the very essence of existence is the NEED to be happy?

[xander]

quote:Originally posted by Coffee

How can you prove that the very essence of existence is the NEED to be happy?

How does one even define happiness? From the buddhist perspective it appears that comfort and pleasure are what it means to be happy.

Happiness seems to be one of those intangibles which cannot be pinned down and yet has many levels.

Xander

[Coffee]

FAT TURKEY-

You say drama drives purpose and your drama is boredom, and your purpose is to have fun.  

What about people whose drama is poverty, or they were raped repeatedly by a priest, or they were born with down syndrome?  What is their purpose?

[bomohwkl]

The more we understand the highest level of true happiness, the more intense and prolong the experience we can feel. Like love, it is hard to define, but there are pre-conditions before love can exist. It is the same with happiness. We can easily differentiate happiness and sad as there are quite a big CONTRAST. To differentiate between different levels of happiness, we need to SHARPEN our perception of emotions and thoughts.

However, because we cannot grasp the higher level of happiness, doesn't mean that we shouldn't aim for it.

[Fat_Turkey]

For centuries, nay, millenia, mankind has wondered the meaning of life, their purpose within it, and that omnipresent word: WHY?

Why does all of this exist? Why does anything happen at all? Why? Why? Why???

Well, let's look at one of those "why?" questions. Why do all the bad things happen? Why can't it all be good? Well, yin and yang. As has been repeated many times, the bad balances the good. But it's more than that I believe. I believe it adds spice to life. It makes it more dramatic. Take a movie...for example...The Matrix. What would Neo be if there was no Agents. What if there was nothing stopping people from going in and out of The Matrix enjoying themselves? There would be no point to his powers. "But Fatteh he would have so much fun!!!111" No, he'd get pretty bored. Which is also exactly why I question psionics, ki, and all of those things. If there is no enemy, then why do it at all? For fun? The fun wouldn't last.

Which leads me to my next point, which pretty much covers my entire revelation. The purpose of life is drama. The first spark of consciousness, call it God, call it The Source, call it whatever, I don't care, but whatever it was it would probably get bored by itself, with no world to reside in. I mean, one popular theory is that it split itself into what is now humanity, so it can study itself in the physical plane and return to itself in the afterlife. I say, still, for drama. It makes things spicy. It makes the mix...interesting. Boredome sucks, everybody knows that. I mean, if I were an omnipresent blob of consciousness, how the hell would I like it if I spent eternity just thinking. No fun.

Drama is what drives purpose. Purpose is what drives us. Purpose completes us. Without the negativity, positivity cannot be defined. And it becomes boring. Same goes the other way around. Nobody living in a "perfect world" would realise how "perfect" it really is. I think they would be more bored than optimistic about their "utopia."

After all, if negativity was so "bad," then everything negative  should not exist. But no, it's not. Negative emotions can guide us as well. When used wrongly however, they don't guide us, they rather guide the drama. Take anger. We get mad at somebody for either the wrong reasons or we just blow it out of proportion. In which case our purpose in the situation in which we lost our cool becomes to apologise. Variety of feelings makes the feelings defined, and thus useful, and thus completing the spices and mixture and overall DRAMA that is life.

So what is my purpose? What is your purpose? To help people? To enlighten oneself? I say it's all of those and none of them at the same time. My purpose in life is to make it as interesting as possible. My purpose is to be the best I can be, and to enjoy the ride. My purpose is to have fun.

~FT