Rebirth/Reincarnation - Buddhist View

[Adept_of_Light]

Interesting post Epsilon,

I have not studied Buddhism in great detail but I question a bit the oversimplicity of the 6 possible states of existance. Not to mention that the path to achieving Nirvana does not take the average human being from a limited state of consciousness to nirvana instantly; I would be more likely believe there are varying stages of human spiritual evolution with each one possessing a greater sense of overall awareness, or greater ability to see objective reality due to being a more spiritually evolved.

1) Such container-like approach denies that spirits could also exist in other forms, such as angels/demons, elementals, etc.

2) Further, to state on one hand that human is not the most evolved, yet it is the most desired state seems to contradict the purpose of wanting to evolve beyond the limited scope of humanity.

3) also the article says little in regard to how a human might reach the level of demi-god and also or how you differentiate a god from a human that has reached nirvana?

4) So where do plants fit into the whole scheme of things? Are they not living entities? Have they no spirit according to Bhuddhism?

Inquisitive minds want to know
Adept of Light

[Tom]

It helps to start out simple and move on from there. The six realms are general categories. They are divided into two groups of three. The lower realms are hell beings, hungry ghosts, animals. Higher rebirths include humans, demigods (asuras), and gods (devas). Each of the realms has a basic emotional quality that is dominant which is responsible for birth in that realm. The exception is the devas, whose harmful emotionall qualities are balanced against each other. The asuras (demigods) and the devas (gods) interact at the bottom of the devas' realm and the top of the asuras' realm. The asuras tend to be very jealous of the devas and often at the border there are wars in which the asuras are easily killed by the devas. Below the devas are humans. There are many varieties of humans on several continents with different language, cultures, religions, and minor physical differences like skin color. While pride is the dominant emotion, it is possible to express all of the main emotions of all of the six realms and the six realms can be seen as emotional states into which we are "born" and from which we must "die". Humans are at the bottom of the upper realms but it is better to be a human than an asura or a deva. This is not just pride talking. The animals includes insects. We humans share an environment with animals and insects, but we do not perceive it the same as they do. The dominant emotion of the animal realm is ignorance. This is considered to be an emotion. No matter how much you like animals and dislike hearing them called ignorant, their ability to understand their environment is limited and they cannot be aware that they will die someday the way we can as humans. It is also difficult for animals to choose to cultivate virtue. We as humans are outnumbered by animals and insects by orders of magnitude. Animals and insects are outnumbered in the same way by the varieties of hungry ghosts. These are reborn due to attachment. They can never be satisfied no matter what they do. When they can get food and water, they usually cannot ingest them. When they do ingest food or water it turns into something unpleasant like fire or boiling metal. Not all of them suffer equally, however. For many their need is unbearable. For others, who have the lightest karmic burden, it is more like a constant itch that cannot be scratched at. These spirits can see us, but without special abilities we usually cannot see them. To watch those who are not deprived adds to their torment. One of the reasons suggested in Buddhism for avoiding ouija boards is the existence of these hungry ghosts. Then, as the animals outnumber us and the hungry ghosts outnumber the animals, the beings in hells outnumber the hungry ghosts. The main cause for being born in hell is anger. There are eighteen major levels of hells, of which nine are hot and nine are cold. There are also minor hells which are very numerous and there are possibilities such as being trapped in an inanimate object like a door or a rock.

The six realms are not just an oversimplification because within each realm there are so many possibilities.

Nirvana is not the end of the path. It is more of a resting point. It is the end of creating new karma and it is the end of personal suffering and it is the end of negative emotions. It is not the same as being a Buddha, which is a positive accomplishment going far beyond the end of creating new negativity.

Of course there are many different levels of accomplishment, but to understand them better it helps to break them up into groups of two, six, ten, thirty-seven, fifty-four, or however many are in the system you are considering. There are also different points from which it is possible to fall back and points from which it is no longer possible to fall back.

Angels, devas, and elementals can be beings from any of the six realms.

Human life is best of all because within the six realms it has a balance of pleasure and pain. The asuras are too busy fighting. The devas are either caught up in the fighting or are too satisfied to care about meditation. The animals are not free to meditate. The hungry ghosts are too busy looking for food and water. The beings in hell are in too much pain. There are other reasons why a human body is best for working toward enlightenment, but that is more a matter for Vajrayana Buddhism and we are talking about the Theravada and Mahayana.

To be born as a demigod requires accummulating merit that is contaminated by jealousy. No one wants to do that even though it is one of the upper realms.

Humans who reach nirvana has gone beyond the level even of the gods. They can react by helping humans reach nirvana in order to get good karma (merit) or they can react with jealousy and try to interfere. When the merit that leads to a life as a god runs out, it is possible to fall even so far as into hell for the next life. A human who reaches nirvana does not have to worry about falling back in any way. Well, not exactly. It is not the end of the path according to the Mahayana. It is harder to become a Buddha for someone who reaches nirvana because after one no longer is even capable of suffering it is very difficult to feel compassion or to be motivated to help. That is why it is better to aspire directly to become a Buddha instead of trying to reach nirvana.

Plants are not really easy to classify within the six realms. While I have read about spirits living within plants the way us people live in houses and apartment buildings, I have not read about plants themselves as beings with spirits who must take rebirth. Same thing for bacteria and viruses.

Buddhism does not oversimplify, but it is hard to describe without oversimplifying things. I left out almost all of the details on every point.

[Epsilon]

Hi Tom, thanks for that informative post!
You're studying/interested in Vajrayana Buddhism, right?
What are some differences between Vajrayana, Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism?
Any good websites you know off hand would be nice too.

Thanks!
Ethan

[Tom]

If you draw a big circle to represent the Vajrayana, the Mahayana is a smaller circle within the bigger circle. The Theravada would be a circle within the Mahayana circle. The Hinayana is the smallest circle and it is inside the Theravada circle. At the level you choose, everything inside is included within it but nothing outside. The popular Hinayana perspective is that the Vajrayana isn't even Buddhist. The Vajrayana begins training at the Hinayana level but does so without losing track of its larger perspective. Most Vajrayana practitioners just refer to themselves as Mahayana even though it is an extension of the Mahayana. No need to brag about it and the exact details of what one is practicing are supposed to be kept secret. At a high enough level, it is impossible to distinguish an advanced practitioner from someone who has never heard of meditation.

Lama Yeshe's books are very helpful. I like Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, too. As for web sites, I have not really looked for them.

These days the lines are starting to blur between the different levels such as Theravada, Mahayana, Zen, Vajrayana, etc. This is a good thing.

[Adept_of_Light]

Hi Tom,

Just a quick note to say thank you for the explanation. I think some of the terminology you used differs in my circle of things. To me a God in the highest state any spirit may achieve, and nothing can exist above that state. Granted you didn't make up those names or hierarchies as they are derived from Buddhism. I realize even what you told me is barely a scratch on the surface of the overall detail, but at least it gives us a nice 10,000 foot view of things

In the end, the different systems in the world today that have  common goals (such as union with God/Enlightenment etc) will generally describe their system using different names and perhaps even with a slightly different story, but since there can only be one truth, all legit systems must simply be descriptions of that same truth using a different language/approach. The only flaw I see in some of these systems is the retainment or more precisely, the use of old symbolic language by followers of that particular faith that are not aware of the symbolism and interpret things directly. I for one am not so convinced hungry ghosts are actually literal ghosts that are simply hungry for sustenance.. nor that these astral beings feed on physical water... in the same way that I don't think that Eve was created from a rib and that she ate an apple from the "tree of life".

Adept of Light

[Tom]

The pretas are much more interesting than just bloated beings with a tiny throat and a mouth that will barely open. There are many types of hungry ghosts. The most common cause I know of is miserliness.

When I said gods, yes, that was as opposed to God. Hinduism gives several options to choose a main God to represent them all, but Buddhism, which comes from Hinduism, rejects the idea of a Creator who continues to run the universe.

[Kazbadan]

This an old post but i need to reply it.

Budha says that suffering will end with paranirvana. Paranirvana is something like beeing "one with all". You no longer are someone; you are not anymore "someone". You are just "everything". As scuh, you cease to feel something like "i am" or "my self". There is no longer a conscience. It´s like even your soul or astral body dissipates in the universe, to become one with that. I hope that you understand my point of view (since i don´t speak english) until now.
My question is: if there is an astral body and you do not "die" (your conscience) after death, how it´s possible to reach he paranirvana? YOu will always have your conscience and feeling of self, so how can you stop with that? Will it be in other life or in the heavens? In this case that means that if i reach nirvana and them paranirvana (in the moment of the death body) in this life, i will not reeicarnate or go to the paradise never (wich is good, because  will cease all the suffering)?

Again, i hope you can understand my question and help me with that.

[bomohwkl]

Just to remind you all that Buddha never mention about reincarnation while he was living and teaching. Reincarnation comes into Buddhism  after Buddha had passed away.

[TorosDead]

Actually bomo that's not accurate.  Buddha did in fact teach that reincarnation existed... his goal was to try and rid individuals of bad karma (which causes reincarnation) so that they would pass onto the next life and not come back to this one.  The idea really is to do absolutely nothing.  If you simply sit and don't move untill you eventually starve yourself to death then you won't do anything to create bad karma.  Buddha attempted this for 6 years (but obviously must have eaten a little) untill he realized that life cannot be lived to it's fullest if one does not indulge... thus he broke his fast.  The goal of buddhism is not to be reincarnated, but end the cycle of reincarnation.

[bomohwkl]

TorosDead, actually, when u really look at the original saying of Buddha (when he had enlightened) , Buddha himself didnt preach reincarnation. Buddha original teaching is about developing and cultivating a proper mindset.

Buddha himself focussed the teaching of now.
The "four noble truths" is summarized by Tom(www.freedomofchoice.com)are written as

1. Suffering, misery and unhappiness exist
2. There is a REASON for them to exist - disregard for the
Purpose of the Universe
3. Suffering, misery and unhappiness can be eliminated.
4. There are WAYS to eliminate suffering, misery and
unhappiness – by learning to recognize and respect The
Purpose of the entire Universe in everything that we do.

In http://www.buddhanet.net/4noble.htm
1.What is the Noble Truth of Suffering?
2.What is the Noble Truth of the Origin of Suffering?
3.What is the Noble Truth of the Origin of Suffering?
4.What is the Noble Truth of the Way Leading to the Cessation of Suffering?

There is no reincarnation or past-life karma in the Eightfold Paths too!!

Very often in religion, information get mixed up, added by other people and those who are less informed would claim that Buddha/Christ preached that. Fortunately, it is easy to see and trace back the original sayings of Buddha.

According to Buddha, anything that cannot be tested personally should not be followed. Do u know why Buddha say that? Buddha placed an important emphasis of cognitive evalutation of our own behaviour. There is no need of faith in Buddha teaching. The 'mindfullness'is the ability to observe our own "self" and the world with full clarity which enables us to increase our range of posibilities and see new options in problem-solving like never before. It takes us out of the victim role in life and allow us to make informed choices to deal with our experiences. The ability to be queit and clear at the same moment- at any time and any place - gives us an edge in any situation.

More information can be obtained from the book
"Sayings of Buddha -Teaching on Spiritual Cultivation" Illustrated and interpreted by Tsai Chih Chung, published by An Asiapac Publication.

[Epsilon]

Rebirth

One question often asked is, "What happens to us after death?"
According to the Buddhists, rebirth takes place at the end of this life. Buddhists regard rebirth as a fact. There is evidence that each person has lived many lives in the past and will continue to lives more in the future.

the case for rebirth

RRebirth is a reality although one may not be aware of it. Those who have developed their minds through meditation have confirmed the existence of past lives. Meditators who have attained powers of concentration have been able to recall their previous lives in great detail. The Buddha and His prominent disciples, in many countries and at different times, have been able to prove the existence of past lives. The Buddha, on the night of His Enlightenment, developed the ability to see His past lives. He also saw beings dying in one state of existence and being reborn in another, according to their actions. Thus it was from personal experience that the Buddha taught His followers the truth of rebirth.

In recent years, evidence has been collected and documented which confirms that rebirth is a fact. There have been cases of people who have been able to recollect their experience of previous lives. Their description of places and persons of the past were confirmed after thorough investigations.

The best known example of this is the case of Bridey Murphy. A Mrs. Ruth Simmons of the United States recollected a previous life in Ireland, more than 100 years ago. She said she had been Bridey Murphy in the year 1789 and gave full details of Bridey's life. The details were later checked and found to be quite accurate, although in her present life, Mrs. Simmons had never been outside America.

In another case in England, a woman called Mrs. Naomi Henry recollected two previous lives. In the first instance, she recalled her life as an Irishwoman living in a village called Greenhalgh in the seventeenth century. Research into her case was carried out which revealed that such a village did exist then. In the second instance, she remembered that in one of her previous lives, she was an Englishwoman who became a nurse to several children in an English town called Downham in 1902. A search into the official records kept in Downham proved that such a woman did exist.

Professor Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia, U.S.A., has researched and published his findings on more than twenty cases of rebirth. These cases, which have been well documented and verified, are from various countries including France, Italy, India, Sri Lanka and Burma.

rebirth in the six realms

Buddhism teaches that birth, death and rebirth are part of the continuing process of change. This is similar to the continuous process of growth, decay and replacement of cells in one's body. According to medical experts, every seven years, all body cells are replaced.

At the moment of death, when this life is over, and the body can no longer survive, the mind is separated from the body. At that time, the craving for life causes one to seek a new existence, and the previous karma determines the place of one's rebirth.

There are six realms in which one may be reborn after death. They are the realms of gods, the demigods, human beings, animals, hungry ghosts and the hells. These are just general categories and within each, there exist many sub-categories. The six realms of existence include three relatively happy states, and three relatively miserable states. The realms of the gods, the demigods and human beings are considered to contain more happiness and less suffering. The realms of animals, hungry ghosts and the hells are considered to be relatively miserable because living beings there suffer more from fear, hunger, thirst, heat, cold and pain.

In general, wholesome actions such as good conduct, charity and mental development, are the causes of rebirth in the happy realms of gods, demigods and human beings. On the other hand, unwholesome actions such as immoral conduct, miserliness and cruelty cause rebirth in the unhappy realms of animals, hungry ghosts and the hells.

One need not wait until rebirth to imagine what existence in other realms is like. For instance, when one is intensely happy or totally at peace with oneself, one experiences a state similar to that of the gods. When baser instincts are followed and one is totally preoccupied with eating, sleeping and sex, existence is like that of the animals. Then again, when one is overwhelmed by fear and pain, or is tortured and killed in this life, one experiences suffering like that of the hells.

Of all the six realms, the realm of human beings is considered the most desirable. In the realm of human beings, the conditions for attaining Nirvana are better. In general, in the unhappy realms, the suffering of living beings is so intense and ignorance so great that they are unable to recognize the Truth and follow the path to attain freedom. Alternatively, living beings in the realms of the gods and demigods experience so much happiness and have so many distractions that they do no think of rebirth until is too late. Then they may be reborn in one of the lower realms of suffering. In the realm of human beings, however, people experience both happiness and suffering, and are intelligent enough to recognize the Truth and follow the path to attain freedom from the cycle of birth and death. Therefore, one is indeed fortunate to be born as a human being, and should remember that the principal cause of birth in this realm is Good Conduct.

the cycle of birth and death

The Buddha pointed out that whenever one is reborn, whether as a human being, as an animal, or as a god, none of these states of existence is permanent. The average life span differs for living beings in the six realms of existence but none of them lasts forever. Eventually, rebirth will take place. The realm into which one is reborn and one's conditions of rebirth are determined by past and present actions. This is the law of karma at work.

Because of the force of their karma, people are born and reborn endlessly in one realm of existence or in another. The Buddha declared that there is no permanent rest in this cycle of birth and death. It is only when one follows the Noble Eightfold path taught by the Buddha and eventually attains Nirvana, that one finally becomes free from this ceaseless cycle and gains supreme and permanent happiness.

People who understand karma and rebirth see life in a better perspective. They understand that every action they perform will have its effects now and in the future. The knowledge gives them hope and strength in the face of difficulties. It gives them courage to continue doing good. They are convinced that they will experience the good effects of their wholesome actions either in the short-term or in the long-term.

(http://www.zenguide.com/concepts/reincarnation.cfm)