If we are our souls...

[Spirit_Gurl]

maybe i didnt explain myself.

people say that you are your soul, i am me. so since this life matters to me, does it also matter to my soul? this life is important to me, so is it important to my soul?

[kakkarot]

sorry to not give you any help from myself, but why don't you look inward and find out the answer yourself? ask your soul, get to know it, and let it really become an active part of your life.

~kakkarot

[Fenris]

Hi there!

Well what is your soul? To me in broad terms it is the entity that evolves as a result of life experiences. The type of person you are probably reflects the needs of the soul in terms of its development. In other words the life you experience is taylor made to provide you with the opportunities needed to learn the lessons in life that your soul needs to learn. Your life experience perhaps adds to the experience of your soul, this is the relationship between the 'you' you know, and the soul. Of course this is just another idea that seems to make sense, what do you think of it?

You see to me and my way or reasoning it makes sense that the physical thinking self is separate in a way from the soul. While I am certainly in no way insinuating that my ideas on the topic or anyone else's are any better than your own, I do think it might benefit you if you really think about what exactly the soul is. And try to come up with a very well defined answer that allows all the pieces of the puzzle such as reincarnation and the fact we need to learn something in our lives to evolve the soul to fit together in a way that makes perfect sense to you. Use this forum and the ideas of people such as my self to help guide you, and when people give you an answer to a question take from it what makes sense to you and disregard the rest. Also remember others opinions that don't make sense now, and come back to them in a years time to see if you can extract more good ideas from them then.

Rigid beliefs will hinder spiritual development in time, but having good ideas that are both clear and open to change is the way to go. But there must still be an emphasis on being clear in your ideas, being vague or hugely open to possibilities on a topic means you haven't thought about it enough []

kind regards

David

P.s I love the way you question things, never stop doing that! Oh and sorry if I rambled off topic a little...just trying to be helpful[]

[James S]

Hi Tia,

The way I've always thought about my soul is that it is the real me. My soul is who I really am, how I look at things, how I react to things, my personality, etc. I've always equated my soul and my body like a driver and a car. My body is the mechanism that carries me, or my soul around for as long as I am in this life, my soul is the guiding force of my body.

If a car breaks down and wont work, the driver gets out, either until the car is fixed, or the driver goes and looks for another car. This is how I believe we are at the point of death. A friend of my wife's family has been clinically dead three times. Each time he remembers hovering above his body, looking down on it while doctors patched him up and jump-started his heart. They fixed his body, so he got back in.

As to thing like our memories, and similar functions of the brain, well, though it is true that memory engrams are stored by the cells inside the brain, I've always felt that the acts of storing and recalling those memories rely on the bodies electrical energy, an energy that I feel is tied in directly with our soul. So although the storage of memories is a cellular function, the energy patterns of those memories are also held by the soul, kind of like a backup. When the body dies, the soul will take the backup of those memories and go on to the next body.

As to why we can't remember those things in the next body? Maybe those memory patterns aren't compatible with the new body, or maybe they're stored in a separate location that our soul can only access when it isn't confined to the body.

I tend not to look too much at the theological or philosophical aspects of our soul, reincarnation, why it happens and all that. I just get confused! I prefer to wait until one day hopefully I'm shown the answers by a higher being, and in the mean time be more content with just thinking about how it all might fit together.

James.

[jilola]

James S: Seems we think in similar terms. Mind if I use that car analogy?

The question Spirit Gurl posed arises from viewing the soul as a separate entity from "I". This is not the case in my opinion. The sould is "I" and the body only a physical vehicle or a manifestation of the soul. So they are inseparable. When you think of "I" you think of "soul".

2cents & L&L
jouni

[James S]

Sorry Jouni, I've copyrighted the car anaolgy []

Just kidding, go right ahead[^]
Yes, I've noticed on occasions we do look at things the same way. Perhaps it's the industry we're both in warping our brains in the same way []

James

[Spirit_Gurl]

thank you so much, james! []

but does that mean my soul I don't care about my life when i die? my life is thrown away with the car, exept for the memory of it? does my life mean anything to my soul i mean me?

[James S]

It's not really your life that gets thrown away when you die Tia, it's just your physical body, the machine that you lived your life in that gets thrown away. Your life will always go on. The death of your body is just a point of change, not the end of your life. What makes you alive is your soul, your conscousness, The "I" inside you.

The soul, the "I" inside our bodies, is a being of pure energy, a spirit entity. When the soul leaves the body after death it returns to a place of energy, not of this physical world. Here, in this place, all of our material needs and wants, all of our physical troubles and worries, are no longer of any importance. Any material concerns we had no longer have any meaning.

When we relate to things that are important to us, we usually relate to material things, that meet our physical needs or wants. It's often hard for us to understand that these things are ultimately of no importance to our soul. To our soul, its the wisdom, the understanding both emotional and intellectual that are the prizes to be won from life in the body that you have now.

[Spirit_Gurl]

I dont believe we have anything to learn, though. I believe souls live here to have fun.

[Nerezza]

I dont believe we have anything to learn, though. I believe souls live here to have fun.

If your having fun, then your life is well lived. Most people have the perception that we wait till we die to have fun(if we've been good that is), which is sort of depressing.

[James S]

You know Tia, you might very well be right.
After all, nothing is actually demanded of us by the higher powers when we're here. It is our own choice as to what we wish to gain out of life. Some people really do believe they are here for a reason and have something to learn. For other it might be just to enjoy life and go away happy afterwards.

If you are right it's going to be a big let down for all the really hard-core spiritualistic or religious people.
I can just see it now...
  Recently deceased: "But God, I learned so many lessons in life, I commited my entire life to studying your ways, I sought only wisdom, rejected all material values...."
  God: "Well your a complete nit then aren't you! I only sent you down there for a good holiday."

[]
James.

[Nerezza]

That's sort of like a rowan atkinson skit I saw once.
=====================================================

Atkinson playing the devil

Hello, nice to see you all again.

Now, as the more perceptive of you have probably realised by now, this is Hell, and I am the Devil. Good evening. You can call me Toby, if you like - we try and keep things informal here, as well as infernal. That's just a little joke.

Now, you're all here for eternity, which I hardly need tell you is a sod of a long time, so you get to know everyone pretty well by the end, but for now I'm going to have to split you up into groups. Are there any questions? Yes?

Um, no, I'm afraid we don't have any toilets... if you'd read your Bible you would have seen that it was damnation without relief. So, if you didn't go before you came then I'm afraid you're not going to enjoy yourself very much... but then, I believe that's the idea.

Right, let's split you up then.

Can you all hear me still?
CAN YOU HEAR ME AT THE RACK?

All right, off we go...

Murderers, over here. Looters and pillagers - over there please, thieves if you could join them, and bank managers...

Fornicators, if you could step forward - my God there are a lot of you. Could I split you up into adulterers and the rest? Adulterers if you could just form a line in front of that small guillotine there.

Okay...

Americans, are you here? Look, I'm sorry about this, apparently God had some fracas with your founding fathers and damned the entire race into perpetuity. He sends particular condolences to the Mormons who He realises put in a lot of work. That's the way the wafer crumbles. The Iranians, I'm afraid, can't be with us - someone's been holding them in purgatory for about nine months.

Sodomites, over there against the wall.

Atheists! Atheists? Over here please. You must be feeling a right bunch of charlies.

Okay, and Christians! Christians? Ah yes, I'm sorry, I'm afraid the Jews were right.

Okay, Moonies, maniacs, marmite eaters, male models, masochists, mass murderers and masseurs, if you could take a pew at the back - with the Methodists that is.

Now, you're the lot who used to kill whales, is that right? Ah, yes, I must remember - I've got some strips to tear off you bastards later.

Everyone who saw Monty Python's "Life of Brian" - I'm afraid He can't take a joke after all.

Alright now, one final thing. We're trying to implement some kind of exchange scheme with the Lord God Almighty, or Cliff as we know him. Some of you will travel up and have a decade in heaven and we're having some angels down here. Now, I hardly need tell you that in heaven you will be expected to behave in an exemplary manner, so I hope you will do the exact opposite - tear off their wings, use their haloes for frisbee practice, that sort of thing.

Well, I have to go now, unfortunately, but Beelzebub here will show you the ropes ... and the chains, and electrodes.

I'd just like to leave you with a favorite joke of mine, if I may. Quite apt to the circumstances, I think. It goes something like this:

Knock, knock!

Who's there?

Death.

Death wh...!

[James S]

Thanks Nerezza, That's one of my favourite Rowan Atkinson skits. I always get a laugh out of it.[]

James.

[bomohwkl]

Spirit_Gurl,

You should ask ...... what is important to my CONSCIOUSNESS.
Are you referring soul, the astral body? Anyway, the astral body is temporary anyway but our CONSCIOUSNESS is eternal.....

[The AlphaOmega]

I think yes, this life is important to your soul, because there are lessons that must be learned that can only be experienced in the physical world.  I don't however believe that your car in this world, or your house in this world, or your anger in this world, etc... is important to the soul.  I don't believe that material things and negative aspects of this life are what the soul seeks to learn from this life.

[Spirit_Gurl]

then does everything important to us matter to our souls? like, my life is important to me, so is it important to my soul?

[isurrender]

I can't remember where I read this from but the concept is that if you believe in reincarnation, our 'soul ' picks our lives to be reincarnated into in accord with the life lessons it have to learn, why you ask alot of ppl suffer in and go through all the negative life experiences? why would anyone want to pick that for themselves? it compared our life to a tv drama/movie etc.., we want action and drama etcc.. we don't want to be stuck in a boring life one where you'ld be bored out of your body.!

[James S]

I can't remember where I read this from but the concept is that if you believe in reincarnation, our 'soul ' picks our lives to be reincarnated into in accord with the life lessons it have to learn, why you ask alot of ppl suffer in and go through all the negative life experiences? why would anyone want to pick that for themselves? it compared our life to a tv drama/movie etc.., we want action and drama etcc.. we don't want to be stuck in a boring life one where you'ld be bored out of your body.!

We don't chose to become stuck in negative situations, but we do chose  the conditions that will best help us to understand what it is we want to learn.

For the most part, people get stuck in negative or boring lives because they're not in tune with, or they're ignoring their soul's direction and purpose in this lifetime. People who do manage to find out what it is they are here to do, usually experience very fulfilling lives, at least from the time they find their purpose.

Blessings,
James.

[taoita]

Spirit-Gurl

I don't like the car metaphor because it's not a very natural state of being and driving is boring and not very good for the environment.  

It's true to say that when you look inside yourself you can discover yourself.  Like when you read a brilliant book and your imagination goes into multicolour.  It could be like seeing into a cool, deep pool or a fascia that you look through when you are attracted to people.

[BoscosFriend]

a human body comes into existence through infinite causes just like anything else. a human body by its very nature has sight, smell, hearing, tasting, feeling, consciousness. These aspects of the human body are just that. aspects of the human body, nothing more. This is not your body, this is not your seeing, not your tasting, not your smelling, not your hearing, not your feeling, not your consciousness. seeing is seeing, tasting is tasting, smelling is smelling, hearing is hearing, feeling is feeling, consciousness is consciousness. that's all. Out of ignorance we believe this body with all its aspects are me and mine, through this ignorance rises dualistic experience, rises self identity. self is just an illusion, its all conditioned. everything you believe you are is just illusion, it has nothing to do with a "soul". when the body dies it goes back to the cosmos, gets recycled. when the body dies consciousness dies. dont identify with the body and its aspects, its an impermanent piece of matter. clinging to views of self, weather it be the body or a soul, is ignorance. we cling out of fear, we crave existence so we cling. stop clinging, let go of your self identity views.

[wizzle3]

so you think when you die, it's goodbye BoscosFriend?

[wizzle3]

[sorry i swear that last post wasn't there when i checked..]

goodbye conciousness, goodbye taste, goodbye mind, goodbye self, boodbye senses, goodbye


to me it's an impossible philosophical idea


others can have that as an option

for some reason, that seems impossible for a mind to be deleted

[BoscosFriend]

its not annihilation.  i dont want you to mistake what i say. it may sound that way. but do tell me, how can this body see, taste smell, hear, feel if it is dead? these are just aspects of the body, the body has consciousness, not you. "you" do not possess the body nor does the body possess a "you".  when you realize this, you see it is not annihilation because there is no "you" to become annihilated. there is no "you" to exist, no "you" to not exist. all is one.  "you" doesn't merge with all, because there is no  "you" to merge with all. there is just the realization of all. it is really unexplainable, words fall short.  

so you think when you die, it's goodbye BoscosFriend

when you realize the all, there is no death. birth and death is an illusion.

[wizzle3]

yea i know, this is all an illusion

it does not meen you don't experience (i know you didn't claim this but)

we're here to experience, and i believe there is a "you"

your higher self, which in my point of view, is always aware, and send information to your 1/9 of your higher self which is, in this body

subconcious/concious

thats my theory

the 1/9 part came from other sources though



so to me i am here,  conciously, but who knows how many lives you might live at once (thinking of the fact that, your mind is underratedly powerful.

but i dont base my facts on that, just an example


so i feal i am here, this is me, in earth

and when i die, i am not on earth, i am still "me"

and i also believe all our sense, to touch and smell and stuff,  are experienced by our astral selves

and this body is to transfer tht information with our brain that converts those vibrations into thoughts and such to experience this life


psychedelics really cleared so many thing up for me, and i can easily see the view that, everything we sense, is an illusion, and we're basically experiencing everything which is not really here



so hard to explain, just like you said

i think our points of views are more simular than i figured