The Astral Pulse

This is where human beings are heading...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&list=UUiL3S6IS15fYdcNS8HOn2cw&v=PjpC6GmeLGI&feature=endscreen

Quote from: Wi11iam on March 10, 2013, 20:50:29
This is where human beings are heading...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&list=UUiL3S6IS15fYdcNS8HOn2cw&v=PjpC6GmeLGI&feature=endscreen

Nope, every new technical advance gets used first in Military applications, then for Control techniques.

I listened to a guy that spoke just like this, but he was on Coast to Coast AM. I went to his website and posted a simple question. I asked where Ethics is held in his equations. On his site you can a question, but then a Moderator decides what should go on or not.

I went back a few days later and saw that my question was not posted. He didn't want anything negative posted, like Ethics for example  :roll:. He just wanted us to drink the Koolaid and "sign on the dotted line".

  Once we change our mindsets on what's important and what isn't, then and only then can I see a bright future ahead for Humanity!

  I see that you posted your view there Wi11iam.  :-o

Quote from: Lionheart on March 10, 2013, 21:51:30
Nope, every new technical advance gets used first in Military applications, then for Control techniques.

I listened to a guy that spoke just like this, but he was on Coast to Coast AM. I went to his website and posted a simple question. I asked where Ethics is held in his equations. On his site you can a question, but then a Moderator decides what should go on or not.

I went back a few days later and saw that my question was not posted. He didn't want anything negative posted, like Ethics for example  :roll:. He just wanted us to drink the Koolaid and "sign on the dotted line".

  Once we change our mindsets on what's important and what isn't, then and only then can I see a bright future ahead for Humanity!

  I see that you posted your view there Wi11iam.  :-o

Where?

Yes ethics is important Lionheart and in relation to technology of this sort, I doubt it will work without ethics.  Sounds like you did watch the vid - is it that you don;t see ethics in what Jason is saying?
The thing about 'what is important and what isn't' is that there are different povs about this subject.  I am coming from the pov of 'what consciousness is doing in relation to this universe which transcends the human drama - the arguments about what is important.'

Mind control is an interesting subject but exactly what is it you are saying?  That we will lose our 'free will'?  Is it not 'free will' which helps keep us separate, because someone uses theirs to make $$ off the backs of those who use theirs to step in line?

We are moving away from biological form and into a less 'needy' one.  Most of our problems stem from the needs of biological bodies.  They have been a necessary bridge from where we came from and to where we are going.

The only real ethic we need to adopt is to recognize our equality as Consciousness.  It seems the human form is incapable of seeing things this way (in general) - indeed you had a lot to do with me seeing things this way.  I once thought it were possible for human beings to work things out and build a better system for everyone.  You told me that my heart was in the right place but unfortunately it was a dream (or words to that effect.)

Eventually I had to agree with you - because it was the same response I was getting from a variety of individuals from different and sometimes even opposing povs...even from hard line sceptics - so all these different aspects who don;t normally agree with each other, agreed with each other on the point that human beings are not going to get their act together and wise up and create a workable plan of action.

But..well Consciousness isn't ruled by human beings and their dramas...it - obviously is capable of working with but also allows the ego whatever the ego deems important, ethical or not.

And if not, then it can work around the ego and leave the bulk of humanity to its ego induced fate - as per free will ...

Me - I just want to assist Consciousness with its explorations in this universe free from the drama of ego based bull-dung.

I find that to be central to being Ethical.

:)

QuoteEventually I had to agree with you - because it was the same response I was getting from a variety of individuals from different and sometimes even opposing povs...even from hard line sceptics - so all these different aspects who don;t normally agree with each other, agreed with each other on the point that human beings are not going to get their act together and wise up and create a workable plan of action.

This doesn't have to be a bad thing just because it is true. In order to grow, we need to experience all the pain and suffering. Without these experiences, a consciousness has no way to relate.

How can we know what it means to feel really good if we do not know what it means to feel truly bad. A utopian world may be great for those currently existing in a physical form but they are being shortchanged on experiences need to grow.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 00:23:05
This doesn't have to be a bad thing just because it is true. In order to grow, we need to experience all the pain and suffering. Without these experiences, a consciousness has no way to relate.

How can we know what it means to feel really good if we do not know what it means to feel truly bad. A utopian world may be great for those currently existing in a physical form but they are being shortchanged on experiences need to grow.

Consciousness is able to relate.  Consciousness is growing within its experience but is not limited to the human form or condition.
It can just as easily have the form of a planet.

Utopia is not necessary - a fair and just and equal system would do.  But anyway, that was then and this thread isn't about that.

See the point of the thread is the observation of where Consciousness is going in relation to this universe.

The only way this future will be avoided (in relation to human beings on planet earth at least) is if human beings for one reason or another become extinct.

That wont stop Consciousness from doing this because the math suggests it is already doing it - it is the way all biological species which become technological to the point where they create ways of moving away from their home planet and explore the interstellar neighborhood.

It is natural, in relation to Consciousness and the physical universe.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 00:23:05
This doesn't have to be a bad thing just because it is true. In order to grow, we need to experience all the pain and suffering. Without these experiences, a consciousness has no way to relate.

How can we know what it means to feel really good if we do not know what it means to feel truly bad. A utopian world may be great for those currently existing in a physical form but they are being shortchanged on experiences need to grow.

So to focus the point, Consciousness is not what needs to relate.  It is involved with all biological species in this universe, and is intimate with feelings and pain and suffering.
What you are speaking of has to do more with some kind of addiction to pain and suffering in the name of learning.  It may even be an excuse to keep things the way they are, but whatever the reason, it is not something Consciousness needs to learn, although you within your identity with the human form and condition, may have need to learn it.

 

If you have the time watch the film Comedown.
This depicts the argument of are we ready?
The attitude within will not easily be eradicated.
Very unfortunate.

Quote from: Wi11iam on March 11, 2013, 02:28:47

What you are speaking of has to do more with some kind of addiction to pain and suffering in the name of learning. 
 

I think you nailed it will. This must be why I keep responding to your posts!! :-D

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 00:23:05
How can we know what it means to feel really good if we do not know what it means to feel truly bad. A utopian world may be great for those currently existing in a physical form but they are being shortchanged on experiences need to grow.

This is so true... If I didn't have some of the lows I've encountered in my life (and it has gotten pretty darn low), I would have been missing valuable lessons. As much as those times trialed me and how bad I hurt, I would not be the person I am today without them. And I'm no masochist. :)

Quote from: Szaxx on March 11, 2013, 05:35:17
If you have the time watch the film Comedown.
This depicts the argument of are we ready?
The attitude within will not easily be eradicated.
Very unfortunate.

Is this the film you are referring to Szaxx?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1376168/

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 06:13:19
I think you nailed it will. This must be why I keep responding to your posts!! :-D

While I see the funny side [whats your name?] your responses here are motivated by something else.

But I can run with that, as the saying goes.

For you at this time, this experience of life on earth is a school for learning whatever you want to learn.

For me it is the same, except that what I want to learn is whatever I can.

Some things I have learned to unlearn...like 'who I am'...

But anyway - the following is about the thread topic.

From a purely physical reference point 'we' are Consciousness - that which identifies itself as "I AM" - we can look back over our continued existence and see our 'mind-print' like a wake of a ship behind us. We are the ship, the ghost in the machine, and we have already created something greater than our individual selves. We are reaching to leave this earth behind and set sail in machinery which will become our new body. From there we will add to that body from the resources.


It tends to look like Consciousness is not even what we understand it to be - I get the impression that as we evolve to understand ourselves as that which is within the form, remove the superstition of belief systems, engage more and more with our technological creations and understand that we are all truly 'One Thing' = "Consciousness" we will also see the pattern that we have done this before - we created the human instrument as a means to achieve what we are achieving...

One of the challenges and beauties of our life here on this planet is that there is so much we do not know and understand. I think a lot of the point would be lost if we knew. Our experience here is an adventure.

On a personal level, I don't want to ever fully understand everything. That would be too boring. Exploration is just too much fun!

What is that saying? It's not about the destination, it's about the journey there.

Hm... The last video he shared sums it up pretty much in a nutshell. :) Awestruck!

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 06:13:19
I think you nailed it will. This must be why I keep responding to your posts!! :-D

:-D :-D :-D

My name is Simon and I'm glad you recognized it for the joke it was.You are right about me learning just what I want to learn but I still pick up useful knowledge along the way that I never intended to. That's just life I suppose.

I am an optimist but only for my own little world and not the world as a whole. I agree with Silva when he says a society's technology is representative of their culture but this is not a good thing. As Lion already pointed out, any advancement in tech is always applied militarily first.

This is not gonna change any time soon or in the distant future I'm sorry to say.

Quote from: ChopstickFox on March 11, 2013, 12:51:54
One of the challenges and beauties of our life here on this planet is that there is so much we do not know and understand. I think a lot of the point would be lost if we knew. Our experience here is an adventure.

On a personal level, I don't want to ever fully understand everything. That would be too boring. Exploration is just too much fun!

What is that saying? It's not about the destination, it's about the journey there.

Hm... The last video he shared sums it up pretty much in a nutshell. :) Awestruck!

Boredom might be a reason beginnings were created and Consciousness injected itself into these simulation adventures.  

Another reason might be that it doesn't really understand where it came from and all these fractal-like simulations are its way of trying to discover the answer to that question.

I do not think that it is boredom which compels certain biological creatures to reach for the stars because there is an obvious adventure to be had  out in the Galaxy and eventually we will simply run out of things to discover on this planet and we utilize the resource on this planet to make that future real.
It is more the challenge to overcome our limitations.


In the case of this thread topic, it is not about understanding everything - it is about understanding the relationship Consciousness has with the physical universe and what it is able to do with this universe.

It is not too hard to understand that Consciousness already knows everything about this universe from the perspective of Observer even before it worked to create biological instruments so that it could be a participator.

Interstellar exploration cannot be done effectively with biological instruments.  What is needed is something more hardy, less needy and - in the case of our particular specie evolution, by experiencing the human form with all its collective data, compassion, understanding, empathy - these things are advantageous to 'Our' Collective Consciousness in relation to that moving into this next phase - merging with the machinery as it were - moving from needing the biological instrument and in appreciation for the necessary bridge it was.

'Personal levels' won't be an issue.  These are inventions of individual human experience and are taken with you wherever you go, even as you understand AP-ing - very subjective, very personal.

The other aspect of AP-ing is the frequent calling for others who can also AP to 'meet up' and have the experience together.  This is quiet a natural impulse or desire because it is at the heart of Consciousness - even when fragmented into countless individuation the core impulse is that which recognizes the holistic nature of its being and desires a configuration which behaves as a whole thing, even as it parts work their separate roles.

It is the principle reason the world has developed civilizations from the scatterings of cultural families, as surely as the reason for the decline of these civilizations is the human inability to allow consciousness its most natural state of being, through the collective specie called 'humanity' - politics, religion, culture, beliefs, families, organisations, corporations, patriotism, philosophies, - all devices which are used to keep humanity separate from itself are all part of why civilizations decline and why Consciousness cannot work effectively with this biological form.

Ultimately it does not matter, because while the drama unfolds through the separating systems there is still an aspect which has learned to work together toward a particular goal setting aside  and working around those things which are counter productive and Consciousness supports that and protects it from the more irrational separatist behavior of base human ignorance, pride, greed, boredom and what have you.

The destination can be surmised, but the journey is the focus, and what might be experienced and learned and that data accessible to the wider Consciousness which resides outside the physical universe.

Once the 'awe' settles down the work proceeds.  There is little doubt that Awe will play its part along the way - and I would think it is a far better propellant than boredom.

:)

QuoteThe destination can be surmised, but the journey is the focus, and what might be experienced and learned and that data accessible to the wider Consciousness which resides outside the physical universe.

Uh...That's what Chopsticks said.

Does 1+1=2 only after you say it does? It seems as if we all agree on a whole lot but it comes down to semantics with you a lot of the times.

Will, you have some fascinating ideas but it's hard to see your point sometimes because you constrain the topic. I understand that you are talking apples and not oranges but to understand the oranges we need to know the seed. Why won't you just give us a generalized idea of why you think consciousness uses physical forms. You already said it's not to relate or understand cause and effect, so what's left? Just a curiosity to contemplate a death perhaps?

I promise that you can get right back on topic after you do so don't fear it, just go with it.  :wink:

Thats the one.
It irritated me most the way through. The acting of the characters is quite realistic.
How does one teach finer values to the presented mindset of others?
A task of magnitude.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 17:01:34
Will, you have some fascinating ideas but it's hard to see your point sometimes because you constrain the topic. I understand that you are talking apples and not oranges but to understand the oranges we need to know the seed. Why won't you just give us a generalized idea of why you think consciousness uses physical forms. You already said it's not to relate or understand cause and effect, so what's left? Just a curiosity to contemplate a death perhaps?

We are being taught at... do you not see this Simon?

William... why don't you set up your own forum like Tom Campbell? You seem to have specific ideas that need a very specific mindset and way of thinking.

Unfortunately... the mindset you require is that of total compliance to your ideas. Free thinking, humour and other ideas seem to irk you.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 16:43:10
My name is Simon and I'm glad you recognized it for the joke it was.You are right about me learning just what I want to learn but I still pick up useful knowledge along the way that I never intended to. That's just life I suppose.

I am an optimist but only for my own little world and not the world as a whole. I agree with Silva when he says a society's technology is representative of their culture but this is not a good thing. As Lion already pointed out, any advancement in tech is always applied militarily first.

This is not gonna change any time soon or in the distant future I'm sorry to say.

Yes – Simon...

So Consciousness works with what it has to work with. (bold for emphasis)
It occurs to me that the fragmentation process extends much further than I have thought about in a consistent manner up until now.

It has been fermenting in the 'back of my mind' (interesting saying) I have been aware of it, and the implications – but the focus has been more with the general aspect of consciousness to which I (as William in bio-form) am part of.

Your 'little world' is your gift of individuation, and extends into the 'Astral' in the outward expression of subjective creativity and adventure, learning etc.

Yet you awaken consistently within this domain – planet earth and the physical universe.

This is where your little world is most affected, and to some degree this reality affects your subjective reality of Astral experience – perhaps even more so than the other way around.

Your little world is subject to the greater reality of 'our little world' the physical goings on here upon this planet.

This is where subjectivity meets objectivity – this is where you meet resistance and have to deal with things not going the way you want them to...same as me, same as most of us.

This is why the great attraction to Astral, because there is a place where you are the boss because it is all your own creation.  I am of course open to correction and certainly can be forgiven for thinking this as I am only going on what is being said and may be totally misinformed or simply misunderstanding what is being shared about Astral.

Zooming in now to what Lionheart said about the military in regards to technology – one would have to be stupid or have some sinister agenda not to acknowledge the military aspect of controlling new technology for its agenda, but please make no mistake – the military is a creation of said culture.

The gadgets we now have which didn't even exist 10 years ago...

The internet was first used for military purposes and has since been given over for public use.
I have written songs bemoaning the existence of military – war, the profiteering of weapons manufacturing, and while these songs are relative to 'my little world' and how I would like thing to be...which is not how they are - and are a record of my own personal journey and attitude, as I said in a previous post, some things I have learned I have found it necessary to unlearn.

Back to the internet...we can map not only what Consciousness is up to but also what individual human egos (unaware of that greater Consciousness) are up to.
Porn is probably in the number one position for popularity, and likely games are way up there as well...this is just a reflection of millions of 'my little worlds' doing their individual thing, and it is quiet understandable for that.

Criminals are also taking advantage of what the internet offers.

In every sense, the internet has allowed me to see that 'my little world' is not the only 'little world' out there.

But also it has shown me that I share a lot of things with others – that my experiences are not as unique as they were before the internet made this quite clear.

So the military is a creation of culture – and extends back to the age of flint spears and other tools of protection...hey we don't really need to detail the history of technology and military.

What we may need to do though is to focus on when technology began to show itself as coming to the fore – and this happened at the time of Hitler and the Nazis.

For example – never before had there been such a thing as amplification.  To be a mere mad genius warlord is one thing but to project your manic voice to a multitude in such a way that every one of the thousands of soldiers from the front to the very back ranks could hear you clearly!  How profound and magical and god-like!

Who provided these tools?  The Scientists did.

So when the Nazis were overthrown the scientists were kept.  Some by the Russians and some by the Americans because both these nations were instrumental in the overthrow, and had to share the spoils and the Scientists were the cream.

Moving on, we see the push to perfect rocket propulsion, we see a flag poked into the surface of the moon, we see craft being sent into our particular neighbourhood of the Galaxy, and more recently we land a robot on the surface of Mars.

Consciousness is working with what it has to work with.

We also see other uses for technology – maybe they have no particular significance to the military, and pose no particular threat to the military – but whatever, they are being created and used by human beings for purposes which are all working to increase lifespan, food production, fight diseases, etc etc...and there is an increasing push from many directions for human beings to start thinking about ourselves and each other as One, rather than as from the older paradigm of 'countries, cultures, politics etc....

Of course, this is still a pretty quiet voice in the wilderness which isn't really getting through the fog of indoctrination...but it is there nonetheless.

Meantime, Consciousness continues because its agenda is to move from this rock and out into interstellar and while the military may have first grabs to whatever science develops, it is the science itself which comes from the impulse Consciousness itself provides.

For its purpose.

It can be argued that while humanity resists the more co-operative/collective philosophies in favour of profit and consumerism and competition, that it will never be leaving this rock at all...but the truth is, it simply won't be...at least not in its present form.  It can't.

It would be wonderful to see the biological critter work together for the good of all, but I can say with some great certainty that this will NOT prevent Consciousness from using what it can use in order to create for itself a form which it can leave this world behind.

One might rephrase that to say...Consciousness too, is its 'own little world' but it has the advantage of knowing exactly what it wants, how to get it, and how to work with what it has and what supports it and work around that which has no interest, compulsion or desire to support a far greater thing than their own little worlds, dramas, ambitions, politics beliefs etc.

In regard to the military in relation to interstellar exploration etc, it will be unlikely needed in that larger part of this reality.  Well the fighting killing part won't be needed – but the planning, and ability to protect and build upon work as a 'well oiled machine' will be an advantage.

I am really only scratching the surface here.  But I think the underlying thing is that this is going to happen with or without the majority support of humanity.

It would be nice to think when it finally eventuates that human beings will be living in peace and collective prosperity on a planet which has been shaped into a proverbial paradise – that would be an ideal platform in which to launch from – but as nice as that would be, individual free will etc may mean that the launch happens on the ashes of civilization hell bent focused on their individual little worlds purposefully ignorant of the bigger picture...a sad thing yes, but all is not lost.

And that is the real point.  All is not lost. The military will play a big part in ensuring this – as much as it is about protecting citizens and countries etc, the military will above all protect the agenda of Consciousness, especially if the citizens prove to continue to choose death and mayhem for the sake of their little kingdoms, beliefs and manipulations.

I personally don't see it going that way...but understand for now, that I am among the few.

:)

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 17:01:34
Uh...That's what Chopsticks said.

Does 1+1=2 only after you say it does? It seems as if we all agree on a whole lot but it comes down to semantics with you a lot of the times.

Will, you have some fascinating ideas but it's hard to see your point sometimes because you constrain the topic. I understand that you are talking apples and not oranges but to understand the oranges we need to know the seed. Why won't you just give us a generalized idea of why you think consciousness uses physical forms. You already said it's not to relate or understand cause and effect, so what's left? Just a curiosity to contemplate a death perhaps?

I promise that you can get right back on topic after you do so don't fear it, just go with it.  :wink:

Yes - that is what chopsticks said - I was agreeing...but as with all things, the destination need also be questioned...is it a good thing?  What exactly is it?  Even as vast the journey, the physical universe, what can be done, learned, applied, built upon?  Why does Consciousness want to explore in such a hands on way, even being human?  Why does it want to develop ways of moving into the Galaxy, self replicate its new form, add to that form and transform the Galaxy...and do this through using the bridge of all bio logical forms in all Galaxies?

'The Journey not the destination' is too flamboyant..too...impulsive, reckless, aimless even.  This Universe affords something of a means in which to project the most likely destination before even embarking...but let us face it, we (Consciousness) has already embarked...and while 'learning from pain and suffering' is inclusive, it is not - by any means - the only reason.

:)

Yes there is more of a point -  my rather impatient friends - to this unfolding thread.  But first the groundwork has to be prepared yes?  The contradiction is that you want the 'destination' explained by skipping the 'journey' to 'get to the point' and then show your disapproval/frustration by your impetuous responses.  :D

A better way of approach perhaps - that both the journey and the destination are equally relevant. 

Quote from: Szaxx on March 11, 2013, 17:22:47
Thats the one.
It irritated me most the way through. The acting of the characters is quite realistic.
How does one teach finer values to the presented mindset of others?
A task of magnitude.

No I haven't seen this film.  But I understand what you are referring to.  No easy task but then I guess ultimately from our own little world perspective we are only responsible for our own education - that is the bottom line - but as part of the bigger reality we do care enough to persist with helping where we can, as insignificant as that help might be...it is our nature...more importantly we don't actually have to feel irritated by those mindsets...we can learn to let that go...



:)

QuoteThe contradiction is that you want the 'destination' explained by skipping the 'journey' to 'get to the point' and then show your disapproval/frustration by your impetuous responses.

The problem is that I'm not sure we are on a journey. But I'll hang in there until you finally convince me otherwise.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 21:06:07


The problem is that I'm not sure we are on a journey. But I'll hang in there until you finally convince me otherwise.

Fortunately it is not my job to convince anyone.  I am simply pointing out the facts as they surface.
:wink:

http://vimeo.com/61236149#

A nice wee vid on the mind.

Quote from: Wi11iam on March 11, 2013, 18:33:59

Yes there is more of a point -  my rather impatient friends - to this unfolding thread.  But first the groundwork has to be prepared yes?  The contradiction is that you want the 'destination' explained by skipping the 'journey' to 'get to the point' and then show your disapproval/frustration by your impetuous responses.  :D

So there is an end game here. Why didn't you just say that "in the beginning"? Yes that pun was intended.

Do you feel that we weren't smart enough or up to your level of intellect yet, you thought you needed to "prime" us first?

Is your "groundwork" complete yet?

I can't wait to see where this leads!  :roll:

Quote from: Lionheart on March 11, 2013, 22:00:37
So there is an end game here. Why didn't you just say that "in the beginning"? Yes that pun was intended.

Do you feel that we weren't smart enough or up to your level of intellect yet, you thought you needed to "prime" us first?

Is your "groundwork" complete yet?

I can't wait to see where this leads!  :roll:

Hey Lionheart

I was able to answer your concerns directly without the impulse to poke at your person...perhaps that is a sign of maturity, but I really didn't have the impulse.

Your concerns regarding military were relevant.

However, having answered them, all you can do in reply is ignore the answers and press on with what amounts to disrupting the flow of the thread – attack the messenger and ignore the message.

Whatever dude (or duddess)

*shrugs*

Your original reply started off 'nope' but didn't really address fully why.  You didn't explain military or mind control as to why Consciousness wont be or isn't in your opinion - interested in exploring this universe and utilizing the materials to transform those materials as I have suggested.  Perhaps to explain may put you in the light of someone who believes in conspiracy and is paranoid about technology? Yes that irony was intended.

The end game isn't really the focus of the thread - it can be discussed, once discussion actually gets under way, if indeed it will.

QuoteI am simply pointing out the facts as they surface.

You do understand that we are trying to discuss a theory, right? Even though I'm on board with a lot of what we are discussing, this is all conjecture.

Quote from: Wi11iam on March 11, 2013, 22:32:21
Whatever dude (or duddess)

What are we a bunch of punk kids now?

I was just replying to YOUR post there. You always want people to correspond to you, well I did.

I'm sure everyone else knew what meant when I stated my views on the video and the idea you presented.

It meant it's not going to happen until we change, plain and simple.

Your next question, change what?

My response change our mindsets on what is important and what isn't. To start working towards making the situation better, not just "towing the line" and accepting everything as it is. For people to put their foot down and say enough is enough. But that isn't going to happen right now because we are submissive to our masters here.

We may moan and groan, but that doesn't change anything.

Once we ALL decide to work on ourselves first, then we will see the welcomed change we all wish to see. It begins with each and every one of us on a personal level.

There lies the problem, not all of us want this. Not all of know there could be a something different or even how to create it and I'm sure there is many that don't really even care or are too lazy to care about it. Many people just live their lives in the "status quo", that's where the term "sheople" is born.

Many/Most people except things the way they are and try to live the best they can and there is nothing wrong with that. They try to make the best of every situation that occurs in their lives. They live within their means and are happy doing so. That's the important thing, finding a way to live this life with Love and Happiness.

If you are constantly looking over your shoulder and keep asking "what if", then you are missing something important in your own personal life.

Quote from: Lionheart on March 11, 2013, 23:58:26
If you are constantly looking over your shoulder and keep asking "what if", then you are missing something important in your own personal life.

Indeed... Spending each moment engrossed by the "end all" isn't for everyone. At it doesn't necessarily make anyone any more or less intelligent for it.

One of my favorite quotes as said by Socrates: The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

To me, nothing rings more true. It is humbling and makes the world so much more amazing.

 Wi11iam I just wanted to tell you a say a few things here.

Before I post a reply to anybody here I have learned how important it is to go back into their "posting history" and see what i can learn. Then and only then can I properly answer their questions or post to the best of my knowledge.

I just recently found your Youtube channel and have looked at some of your videos there, definitely not all 70 though.

I see that you had an experience, like many people here do that has led you to question almost everything, your entire existence.

Tom Campbell talks about people seeing what they need to see when they need to see it.

I too had an "eye opening" experience, which consequently led me to the Astral Pulse.

At first I learned everything I could to try and learn to consciously Phase/Project. I was a great student and read every PDF and book I could find.

I began to practice what I learned and was successful, until the day I started questioning everything. I found when I started to do that, I couldn't Phase anymore. This went on for about a month.

When I finally just decided to just allow what happens to happen and drop the questions, I was "allowed back in. But this time I was constantly reminded to "just observe" and a good observer I became.

I see you have now turned into a Philosopher of types,, but unfortunately without an audience. You are definitely a "Thinking Man" and that's not a bad thing to be. You just need to ALLOW the answers to funnel through you. Do this and they will come.

I can also see that all your questions have hindered your "experiencing" anything in the NPR consciously aware anymore.

I do want to say though, I was highly impressed by your "Glass Mirrors of the Earth". Those are spectacular and very creative. You have put a lot of thought and symbolism into them. They are incredible pieces of Art in my opinion. I too create "Wheels" of sorts, but use them mostly as portals for my NPR exploration. Definitely something you should try as well.  :wink:

I questioned an "End Game" before because you have now created 3 different threads, all based on the same idea. Once a thread goes dry, you wait awhile and come back and start the conversation over again under a different "guise" per say.

What is it that you wish to hear here? What can other members here finally say to you to give you "piece of mind" once more?

That's what I mean when I ask the question, "what is your end game"?

I have seen many members here reach out to you to respond to your questions or "philosophies", but then you turn around and question what they have to say.

Every answer leads to more questions which leads to more answers, which leads to more questions, until finally people here start to tire of it because they see it's going nowhere fast.

Yes this is a open Forum and we are currently in under the heading of "Welcome to Integral Philosophy", so in turn you have done nothing wrong.

But if you start to be more inviting to people and show them you are listening, instead of just debating them all the time, you will see that more people will respond to what you have to say.

No one can prove what is right and what isn't right now. Everyone has there own truths based on what they are "seeing" and experiencing themselves in the NPR. Those become their truths.

Try to ALLOW the NPR to teach you yours as well. You will see that it will oblige your request. It could be by riddles/puzzles or quests, but in the end you will find what you seek.

I see a lot of myself in you. I just enjoy my privacy too much to start a youtube channel and I'm not really into the social media stuff.

I'm just happy to come here and correspond with other like minded people, that are searching, as I am for their own truths, which leads to them finding themselves.

Just last night I saw that I have much more to learn. I have never doubted that, for this World is our classroom.

But last night I awoke in a Lucid Dream, I thought I had gained full awareness, then I experienced full Sleep Paralysis to the max and then did nothing. The next thing I knew I was being screamed at and surrounded by people telling me something serious had happened to MJ's one and only Grandson.

Once I awoke, I was extremely annoyed at myself for allowing that to happen. I knew I was Dreaming, it changed into the SP, but this SP was different than I had ever experienced. It was like being in a shaking dark tunnel, I then lost my awareness and the next thing I knew, I was in a full blown terror scene.

Oh, well, back to the drawing board! At least I knew what was happening and why.

I feel for the many people of the World that awaken in a full blown SP fear scenario. It really is the true meaning of Terror.

I hope you don't take this post of mine here as an attack, because that's the last thing I wished it to be.

I am going to listen to more of his Youtube videos, but you might want to shorten them up a bit. You seem to say the same thing over and over again. It's great info, but it seems like it takes you a long time to make a single point.

The biggest complaint and the only one I know of that is made on Tom Campbell, is that he takes a long time to answer one question and that comes across a boring and too drawn out for most.

I know it annoys you to get off topic but would you please explain your mirror of the Earth. I never understood what your avatar was until I saw it in the member's art thread.

It is amazing to say the least and completely fascinating to look at. I am not asking from a critical stance, I just want to know what inspired you to may such a beautiful piece that appears to be so much more than just art.

Thanks,

A fan.

Yeah... your Ouija board mirror thing is beautiful. Very impressive. :)

I like the way all the intersections mean something and that they are more open to interpretation and exactness than the YES/NO alphabet and number scenario.

QuoteNope, every new technical advance gets used first in Military applications, then for Control techniques.

With beliefs like this we won't ever change. Yes in the past every technical advantage may have been used for military purposes but it's a new time. We can't continue to look back if you want to create a future. We should look forward into what can be done and is possible.

Hanging on to the past is on a recipe to conjure up the past, Changing and moving forward into new beliefs is how we evolve.
One of the first things I learned when I got into spirituality was not to believe in everything I read and to not hold on to the beliefs that I believed to be true. Yes those beliefs may have been true but over time they WILL change because change is inevitable, in everything and everyone. Including the government(s). No matter how messed up things have been, all things take time so lets stop making it harder on the younger generation with these fairy tale beliefs of "No that can't happen because in the past it was this way, or that way."

IF you'd like to continue living the past then be our guest but please don't push your beliefs onto everyone else because of what you think. (Disclaimer:This statement was made to the general public who tend to push there old beliefs onto others.)

pHI :-)

Quote from: Made O pHI on March 12, 2013, 12:36:28
With beliefs like this we won't ever change. Yes in the past every technical advantage may have been used for military purposes but it's a new time. We can't continue to look back if you want to create a future. We should look forward into what can be done and is possible.

This is not looking back at the past. This is looking at today.

Do some research and you will see what I mean. What are Drones being used for. How about the new "nano-bot" technology or new developments in prosthetics being used to make the "future soldier", robotics the same thing.

This is one control application that is being used today. 

At a school in California they have introduced a new system using "tags" for the students. They say they have put these chips around their neck for their own protection.

Once again using fear to camouflage control!

Just think if they can get the Youth of today used to wearing these things, what's going to stop the Adults of tommorrow from continuing this trend. It will become common place to be chipped every where you go, in the name of personal security.

How are you sure this is a control method ? Just because it seems like its fear based ? Lets not forget kids have to carry an ID card around today for their protection at school. I think just having to wear a necklace with your information at school would be so much easier then having to worry about carrying a stupid card.

I know where your coming from with this though cuz I use to think that all that stuff was to control us more but if you actually think about it it's a way of the future to make our lives easier. The conspiracies behind everything is just what make people scared to embrace the technology so we're over here working our A** off because were scared of technology. Imagine life without all your kitchen electronics, ha we'd be working our a** off even more just to eat ! Technology is the only way to advance to a better civilization. But we can't do so with our fear based beliefs behind technology.

But conspiracies are conspiracies for a reason, they aren't real but they serve a GREAT purpose. And that's for us to find out what purpose they serve.
"Without fear there is no love, without love there is no change." Ponder that :p

Quote from: Made O pHI on March 12, 2013, 12:56:38
Imagine life without all your kitchen electronics, ha we'd be working our a** off even more just to eat ! Technology is the only way to advance to a better civilization.

This statement makes me think you think Mankind came into existence yesterday.

We have survived just fine without Kitchen Electronics in the past.

People did live and they did achieve their goals in the past. We weren't just a bunch of grunting Neanderthals yesterday!  :-D

I agree to disagree, but that's my personal opinion and it's not going to change soon.

I also made my initial statement that we could change, but first we had to change our mindset as a whole and that this is achieved on a personal level.

The video that Wi11iam posted basically said that we were going to altered into some kind of machine. That we were going to literally be changed into some kind of high tech robot.

Did you watch the video?

QuoteWe have survived just fine without Kitchen Electronics in the past

Yes but life was also more difficult. Hunting all day just to come home, eat, then sleep. Maybe get a little in with your wife then do it all again the next day. Doesn't sound much like a life to me.

QuoteI also made my initial statement that we could change, but first we had to change our mindset as a whole and that this is achieved on a personal level.

The video that Wi11iam posted basically said that we were going to altered into some kind of machine. That we were going to literally be changed into some kind of high tech robot.

Did you watch the video?

Sorry, I didn't see that. But yes I agree with that first statement.

No I didn't watch it either lol. I just seen your comment so I assumed it was talking about how our technology would advance and better us, not turn us into cyborgs.
That's fault on my part, I aploogize.

I just don't see consciousness creating a physical world so we can create cool stuff. That seems pointless to me from an evolutionary standpoint. Physical existence is on only temporary even if it goes on for billions of more years and just repeats.

There are at least two things that all the great people who have tried to change humanity as a whole, have in common. They worked on changing themselves for the better and they failed at changing anyone else. Simple as that. I'm not saying they didn't make a great difference in the lives of many people but everyone they helped in the long run had to first change themselves. We can inspire people but we can't change them.

Conspiracy theories are not from fear but from realization. We have been lied to time and time again. I don't put any concern in any theory because I can barely maintain the illusion of control in my own little world. I'm not gonna bang my head against the wall of changing mankind for the better. It's not even possible. We will never all agree on what better is. Your grand society may be someone else's version of hell on earth.

We are all free to believe what we want. I see the same things happening over and over again and no motivation in most people to change. The easier tech makes our lives, the easier we want it to get. Who said this was supposed to be about easy meals and such?

Sorry Will. I know you want to keep us all on track but you can't change us.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 12, 2013, 14:20:29
Conspiracy theories are not from fear but from realization. We have been lied to time and time again.

All things considered and apart from the Watergate scandal... what actual BIG lie has ever been found out?

 Like I said before. What I stated is not about Conspiracies.

You can watch all the new tech on the Sci Fi and the Military Channel. It's loaded with new technology and how they wish to use it get a footing on the enemy.

The History Channel is getting into showing this now as well, in Documentary form. Modern Marvels even has a show based on new tech and it's applications for the future.

This is completely out in the open, you just need to open your eyes to see it.  Well I'm sure there is a lot that isn't open to public discussion yet.  :wink:

There are some pretty fascinating things being created now, that will have some use in Future battles.

Some of them are being created to control the enemies minds, to alter there emotions and confuse them. These are based around sound and frequency though.

Quote from: Bedeekin on March 12, 2013, 14:36:24
All things considered and apart from the Watergate scandal... what actual BIG lie has ever been found out?

I really don't put much thought into conspiracies but I will call them as I see them.

Well, I guess this comes down to what we choose to believe as truth. Again, truth can't be pushed on anyone. Since you mentioned Watergate, You have set a very high standard since Nixon did the unbelievable and actually admitted guilt. A rarity even when caught red handed.

But for me, it's more about the little things that just keep adding up. We can't wait around for admissions since we don't need someone to admit to the lie to know they lied. Without much details, since they are mostly well known, I will give examples that are relevant to me in no particular order.

Galileo having to recant his belief in how the planets revolve around the sun.

All things alien but Roswell in particular.

The Gulf of Tonkin.

Columbus discovering America. Why is is still being taught today?

Ask any Native American if they have been lied to by a government

The Iran-contra deal and Reagan's prior knowledge of.

Reefer Madness-Govt. sponsored movie to demonize cannabis

JFK assassination. Give me a break, that the gov tells us what they know

All things Obama and the fast and Furious crap

Obama

It took years for the gov to admit prior warning of Pearl Harbor being attacked

and of course, how smurfette can be the only female smurf yet not be the mother of all the rest.

I left some obvious stuff out since I am not convinced one way or another like 9-11 and such.

plus, many admitted and proven false flags by governments (e.g. Northwoods where they asked Kennedy to have Americans killed to blame it on Kuba to invade it later; or in Europe where we had state-sponsored terrorism without a doubt by Operation Gladio / Stay-Behind-Network),  and also the brutal mind control programs such as MKULTRA, there are documents about this, even as pdfs online to read

look what's going in in Libya and Syria now, child-murdering terrorists are funded by our 'free world' to bring down governments

and yeah, there's 9-11, nuff said  :oops:

this world is a mad place indeed

I will admit that I didn't expect you to have that many good examples.  :lol:

Nice one.

I am rather bemused that people tend to see the government as a big omnipotent force... when in fact they are useless and very bad at keeping secrets.

Anyway... we are going so off thread we are sowing a completely different garment.

Quote from: Bedeekin on March 12, 2013, 16:04:34
Anyway... we are going so off thread we are sowing a completely different garment.

False Flags!! Thank you Volgerle, I could not think of that term.

I forgot the poor Tuskegee Airmen.

I can only imagine poor William when he sees what we have done to his thread. I don't want to be around when that happens. :-D

Its still related to the thread. Its our physical world and Watergate was a stinker. I remember it too. The military armaments of today youll not see for decades. Smart mines were being made in the early 80's. It's a different scene totally.
Governments are covered well already, they are a slow moving machine with a key few in the know. The rest use 'others' for real advice the world over.
Its a crazy world and to fit in you sometimes have no choice but to follow orders.

I cant see people being electronically controlled just yet. Emotional values are too strong. Once conditioned ....
Will has a point on our evolution. To boldly go further will involve our conciousness, a developing mind is where this technology would work best. Lets face the facts, the first few years of life wire our brains in a big way. Open some doors here and you never know the limits.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 11, 2013, 23:50:20
You do understand that we are trying to discuss a theory, right? Even though I'm on board with a lot of what we are discussing, this is all conjecture.

No it is not a theory Simon.  It is actually happening...the conjecture is that Consciousness (that aspect working in relation to our planet) is in a position where it can fully protect its agenda from the human drama...but that is most likely pretty accurate.

Short of some major catastrophic natural event happening which could seriously maim or destroy the machinery, this will eventuate.

Neither is it conjecture in relation to the rest of the Galaxy - and Galaxies.  Consciousness is working in all of these, certainly in every one it has access to.

Is it conjecture to assume that since we have no evidence of this that we alone are the only planet in the universe with consciousness?

Be that as it may, Consciousness exists here, and it moving to go out there...and that is not conjecture.

This promotes Wills thoughts. It's quite old now.
http://www.sirgeorgetrevelyan.org.uk/tht-consciousness.html

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 12, 2013, 15:53:55

and of course, how smurfette can be the only female smurf yet not be the mother of all the rest.

That's the grandaddy of them all, lol!  :-D

Yes, Wi11iam, I/we apologize for hijacking your thread. But on the brighter side, more people are responding now!  :wink:

I hope you see how we can learn, but also have a bit of harmless humor injected into a discussion.

Not everythng has to be so serious all the time!  :wink:

I keep my posts set up to warn me that another post had been made while I was typing. Let's just say that I would have felt like a horse's rear if i had made my post before reading what Lion had to say. :-D

Sorry to be so literal Will, but the definition of conjecture is to basically guess off of little to no objective evidence.

But I am not following you on why consciousness as a whole needs to expand and explore it's own creation. I'm sure artists need to stop and admire their work and take note of how they accomplished their work but they don't need to explore it since it comes from them. It is an extension of themselves in a way and they know inside and out.

Okay - Usually I would just continue answering posts in the chronological way - certainly the topic has acted in the way a poultice does.

I think I will likely focus on one thing for now, and that is Lionheart comments about my making other threads to say the same thing.

This is quiet true, because all things are connected - but I think it is appropriate to give more detailed background to why I even chose to return to this message board, because it may help.

As I made known, I spent some time at Tom Campbell's forum which is administered by Ted Vollers.
The reason I even went there was because I was advised to do so by someone in this forum.
Which is likely the main reason I returned here.

As I think it can be appreciated, the data I have managed to exhibit herein, is untold more than I was allowed to do with Ted Vollers, and while one thread was locked here, at least it was only locked - a whole thread was deleted by Ted.

No experience is wasted though.  It is all a learning curve of data, all potentially able to increase my personal quality of consciousness, in this 'little me' perspective.

I wasn't impressed with how I was treated by Ted.  I understand that the emotion of that, albeit fairly tiny - did spill over into this arena and my approach here may be understood as being a reflection of that annoyance.

To use an metaphor - I am trying to land and the control tower keeps preventing that so I try another approach (a new thread - and a revised attitude...based on the responses and complaints) and what I can say now is that the responses unfolding are showing that these methods are working.

What jumps out here and now has to do with 'Tom Campbell's Theory of Everything' 'Getting on the same page' and the absolute realisation that we are indeed all in this together.

What I learn through Ted Vollers is that he and the other followers are not interested in anyone else except Tom Campbell's big TOE, and will defend their right to be this way categorically and un-apologetically.

There is simply no room for outside data.  This in itself leads me to suspect something is amiss because I have read enough of Toms stuff to understand that he - on paper - welcomes new info etc...then I wonder if he is even aware of what is going on in his forum, with his right hand man Ted?  Then I have to conclude that he does know, and by his silence is condoning it.

Why is this important?

Because this kind of thing is going on in so many separate controlled environments - forums - and is a reflection - and accurate reflection of what you have seen me write of as 'The Human drama.'

It is also why I had my wee rant about 'Moderators' and their excessive control techniques, mainly aimed at Lionheart, whom took this to be my conspiracy delusions of paranoia, especially as I strongly inferred that the same thing was going on and controlling what is called (close your ears Ben) "The Astral".

Which is why I now look at the irony of Lionhearts responses in this thread...regarding the (not) conspiracies of military and government manipulations.

Now these thread 'approaches' as I said, they are all connected. 

I think a great thing would be if we 'we' - if we could get on the same page.  Rather than just, say (for example) Tom Campbells theory of everything, which is really only limited to Toms subjective experiences, which fair enough - others who experience 'Astral' can also appreciate or relate a little or a lot to, but 'we' need to learn to remain totally open - even open ended - and work together to nut out as precisely as our collective 'little selves' can - to altogether piece together our data to give us a far better overall picture of what is going on.

We could develop OUR theory of everything... or as much of 'everything' as we can.

Certainly that is what I am looking for in 'others'.

Just in closing...I do want to (and will do if permitted) answer the previous posts which have poured into this thread...I agree totally with Szaxx that all the posts are indeed relevant to the thread topic... I just want to say that the reason I came to this forum was because the data I was researching led me here anyway, and it was somewhere else I read data by someone calling there self 'Traveler' (i think) who linked The Frank Kepple Resource, which I read and some serious pieces of my own puzzle fitted nicely...bless Douglas Eckhart (Gandalf) and all others who put that data together, and bless Frank for his own studious work.

Yeah sure, Bless Monroe, Bruce, Campbell, et al but please, these are not 'the lords of the astral' to be placed upon pedestals, as I am sure most here would agree.  Their data is useful ALL TOGETHER - but also so is ours, and we can make the effort.

Anyhow..I am off for a nanny nap...

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 12, 2013, 18:24:52
I keep my posts set up to warn me that another post had been made while I was typing. Let's just say that I would have felt like a horse's rear if i had made my post before reading what Lion had to say. :-D

Sorry to be so literal Will, but the definition of conjecture is to basically guess off of little to no objective evidence.

But I am not following you on why consciousness as a whole needs to expand and explore it's own creation. I'm sure artists need to stop and admire their work and take note of how they accomplished their work but they don't need to explore it since it comes from them. It is an extension of themselves in a way and they know inside and out.

*sigh* okay quickly...

Why does need and answer.  The fact is it IS - the process is well under way.

You are suggesting that it is not.  The facts say otherwise.  The objective evidence is all around us and cannot be denied but can be demonized ... you know - the conspiracies etc...

Anyway I will attempt to pull back the curtain on this in more detail.  I will leave you with this to ponder.

Why are you here, if consciousness already knows everything about everything?

:)

Same reason we all are. To try to understand conciousness consciously.

QuoteWhy are you here, if consciousness already knows everything about everything?

I don't believe that consciousness knows everything about everything and that is why we are here. I thought you believed this quote. That is why I am questioning your statements about consciousness exploring what I thought you believed it already knew. Existing in a physical body with both internal and external limitations will at the very least, give a free form consciousness a new way at looking at itself.

I'm not sure if you ever said this outright but you follow-up most of my responses with consciousness already knows this and that and the other.

I am not suggesting that it is not expanding out. I am questioning whether or not your model accurately explains why it is in accordance with my own experiences. You would do well to never underestimate someone's intelligence or overestimate your own.

Your approach, as you say, is to give us one piece of the puzzle and then *sigh* when it makes no sense to us alone. This is why I asked earlier for a more complete picture of your theory.

I viewed LionHeart locking your thread because of the bickering and not the discussion. None of the moderators here filter the info but only the tone used. They have to keep the peace in the interest of the forum. They all encourage open minds.

Quote from: Szaxx on March 12, 2013, 19:18:23
Same reason we all are. To try to understand conciousness consciously.

That makes so much sense. I'm glad you put it like that.

Quote from: Szaxx on March 12, 2013, 19:18:23
Same reason we all are. To try to understand conciousness consciously.

What does that mean in your understanding Szaxx?

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 12, 2013, 19:26:50
I don't believe that consciousness knows everything about everything and that is why we are here. I thought you believed this quote. That is why I am questioning your statements about consciousness exploring what I thought you believed it already knew. Existing in a physical body with both internal and external limitations will at the very least, give a free form consciousness a new way at looking at itself.

I'm not sure if you ever said this outright but you follow-up most of my responses with consciousness already knows this and that and the other.

I am not suggesting that it is not expanding out. I am questioning whether or not your model accurately explains why it is in accordance with my own experiences. You would do well to never underestimate someone's intelligence or overestimate your own.

Your approach, as you say, is to give us one piece of the puzzle and then *sigh* when it makes no sense to us alone. This is why I asked earlier for a more complete picture of your theory.

I viewed LionHeart locking your thread because of the bickering and not the discussion. None of the moderators here filter the info but only the tone used. They have to keep the peace in the interest of the forum. They all encourage open minds.

If consciousness does not know everything then this explains why it would want to explore this physical universe, which answers your question
You misread me on this as well.
I said that Consciousness knows everything about this universe from an observer's point of view but not a 'hands on' utilising manner – words to that effect.

From outside it, rather than within it... it answers your query here:

"But I am not following you on why consciousness as a whole needs to expand and explore it's own creation. " 

Because it doesn't know its creation from the perspective of being within it.

Overall though, the point is...the truth is - Consciousness IS within its creation, right?

My *sigh* (in this instance) is in having to repeat myself, so I have to find another way of saying the same thing.  It has nothing to do with my assessing anyone's intelligence or underestimating their own experience. 

Indeed, my last post makes the point that I think WE need to get on the same page with our theories.  Did you skip over that bit?

Also, Lionheart did not lock that thread.

Part of the reason I am thinking I *annoy* is because I am able to keep to the facts and show where I see obvious-to-me- contradictions in what someone says one time and then says another time.

I don't mean it to annoy, but I do mean to keep on top of it, foremost in my own expressions (for it is easy to do) but I can't ignore it when I see it in others expressions, be these coming from sceptics, religious, or whatever minded individuals.

We need to watch out for that in our selves and each other, annoying as it may be.

A more complete picture of what I am saying can really only happen as it becomes apparent that you are getting a handle on what I am saying already and at present you are still largely engaged in making commentary on me, or my method of approach.

I am adjusting as should be obvious, but I have to say that this kind of response has been used in the past by some in order to veer away from what is being conveyed – the subject at hand – in a kind of purposeful 'kill the messenger and ignore the message...I am being prudent, I hope you understand. 

If you have any information which would contradict what I am conveying here in this thread, you would say so yes?

QuoteA more complete picture of what I am saying can really only happen as it becomes apparent that you are getting a handle on what I am saying already and at present you are still largely engaged in making commentary on me, or my method of approach.

You are right about the commenting on the messenger and not the message but this is a break through post from you William. I think we can move on with more understanding.

Lionheart – on your post in this thread here:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html;msg327734#msg327734

I am certain we agree with the facts regarding change – change our self – there has been no 'moaning and groaning' from me – my earlier posts on this board to do with coming up with a workable plan etc...blah blah – as I have since explained came from a perspective which saw potential in the human species as a collective and as you and others in other forums explained to me, in different ways but saying essentially the same thing, 'it is a nice hope – you have a good heart – but the reality is, this is never going to happen.'

Now I agree, so – as I have also explained, I had to re-think what it is Consciousness WAS doing in relation to the human specie, and place my hopes, dreams, whatever it was that put my focus on that unreal expectation –place these to one side and look for the evidence – take a closer look – because yes – here and there it is obvious that individuals are making a difference, but generally the evidence was contrary to the ...expectation.

It is not that I didn't also understand this aspect (thread topic) as part of what Consciousness is doing, it is more that I thought it couldn't do this until the bulk of humanity had got its act together and worked as a whole.

Now I understand different.

Quote from: ChopstickFox on March 12, 2013, 01:23:13
Indeed... Spending each moment engrossed by the "end all" isn't for everyone. At it doesn't necessarily make anyone any more or less intelligent for it.

One of my favorite quotes as said by Socrates: The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

To me, nothing rings more true. It is humbling and makes the world so much more amazing.

CF

What I understand about this quote is a little different – I do agree with your assessment re 'keeping humble' but I have this to add.

True wisdom is knowing that you know nothing is not that you know nothing or that what you know is not important, it is that in relation to this universe, we know next to nothing so to speak, therefore we ought not presume.

It is not suggesting we remain ignorant or do not pursue knowledge...it is saying we are wise not to think ourselves so smart, or use our knowledge unwisely, like to compete in debate for the sake of applause and one-upmanship etc...that kind of thing.

The wisest way to use knowledge is collectively.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 12, 2013, 21:05:26
You are right about the commenting on the messenger and not the message but this is a break through post from you William. I think we can move on with more understanding.

I am glad Simon.

 Wi11iam, you still haven't commented on the only thing I am really interested in at the moment in this entire discusssion and that is those beautiful "Mirror(s) of the Earth" that you have created.

Instead you go back to the same ole, same ole.

We even complimented you on it, but I guess that passed you by.

We gave you a chance to expand. To explain your Philosophy and purposes, your inspiration behind your designs and the symbolic runes, etc. that you used.

If you wish you can start a new thread on that and I would definitely be interested in what you have to say and I'm sure many others here would be as well.

But I am done posting on this one. If I thought what I had to say would make a difference to you, I would continue. But I know it won't.

Quote from: Lionheart on March 12, 2013, 21:52:29
Wi11iam, you still haven't commented on the only thing I am really interested in at the moment in this entire discusssion and that is those beautiful "Mirror(s) of the Earth" that you have created.

Instead you go back to the same ole, same ole.

We even complimented you on it, but I guess that passed you by.

We gave you a chance to expand. To explain your Philosophy and purposes, your inspiration behind your designs and the symbolic runes, etc. that you used.

If you wish you can start a new thread on that and I would definitely be interested in what you have to say and I'm sure many others here would be as well.

But I am done posting on this one. If I thought what I had to say would make a difference to you, I would continue. But I know it won't.

Ah - sorry Lionheart - I appreciate what you and others have said and there was a lot of activity on this thread which I am still contemplating, which is why I made this post:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html;msg327842#msg327842

Then I did some posts answering Simon plus answered one of your posts and also CFs - then thought I would give it a rest for a while and do other stuff before continuing answering the posts I still haven't answered...in other words 'I am getting there'.

What you and everyone has to say is important to me, and your post where you make mention of my vids certainly is worthy of reply - sorry if it appeared I am snubbing or ignoring you - purely unintentional.

:)

 

Quote from: Lionheart on March 12, 2013, 09:56:17Wi11iam I just wanted to tell you a say a few things here.

Before I post a reply to anybody here I have learned how important it is to go back into their "posting history" and see what i can learn. Then and only then can I properly answer their questions or post to the best of my knowledge.

I just recently found your Youtube channel and have looked at some of your videos there, definitely not all 70 though.

I see that you had an experience, like many people here do that has led you to question almost everything, your entire existence.

Tom Campbell talks about people seeing what they need to see when they need to see it.

I too had an "eye opening" experience, which consequently led me to the Astral Pulse.

At first I learned everything I could to try and learn to consciously Phase/Project. I was a great student and read every PDF and book I could find.

I began to practice what I learned and was successful, until the day I started questioning everything. I found when I started to do that, I couldn't Phase anymore. This went on for about a month.

When I finally just decided to just allow what happens to happen and drop the questions, I was "allowed back in. But this time I was constantly reminded to "just observe" and a good observer I became.

Okay Lionheart –
I am wired to question everything, and am happy to do so.
As I have mentioned in other threads, it is not my intention to learn to 'travel' and when it comes to 'access denied' I tend to see this as 'something to hide' so *shrug* and get on with what I can get on with.
To further explain, I am not one to make choices based upon limited data – Fully informed is the best, and fine print is suspect.
This is not to say that I haven't made choices without full information, but that having done so I have learned that it doesn't usually work out great for me – usually I find myself in a position which advantages another and disadvantages me.
Importantly, if I cannot learn from this, I will have to continue to go through that process until I do.
I too am a good observer.

Quote from: Lionheart on March 12, 2013, 09:56:17I see you have now turned into a Philosopher of types,, but unfortunately without an audience. You are definitely a "Thinking Man" and that's not a bad thing to be. You just need to ALLOW the answers to funnel through you. Do this and they will come.

I can also see that all your questions have hindered your "experiencing" anything in the NPR consciously aware anymore.

Just to emphasis, it is my choice entirely.  I do not consider this to be a handicap but I am open to your reasons as to why I should see it this way.
I don't quiet see why you have found it necessary to counsel me to 'allow the answers to flow through me' – can you elaborate– bearing in mind the thread topic – in a way that ties in with this topic?

Quote from: Lionheart on March 12, 2013, 09:56:17I do want to say though, I was highly impressed by your "Glass Mirrors of the Earth". Those are spectacular and very creative. You have put a lot of thought and symbolism into them. They are incredible pieces of Art in my opinion. I too create "Wheels" of sorts, but use them mostly as portals for my NPR exploration. Definitely something you should try as well.  :wink:

I appreciate your compliments on the artwork.  Would you not agree that I have indeed used these as a 'portal'?  A Communications portal to be precise.

I get it that you are hinting I can use these as a way to move into the non physical reality.  I am open to more data from you regarding this process.

Also it might be prudent to mention that I consider astral travellers to be scouts, adventurers of sorts who sail the different oceans to discover and report back their findings.

Having said that, at present my overall impression is that they are experiencing something of a subjective thing which is unique to their personality – their individual sense of self identity and while there are similarities in their reports, I have as yet to find objectivity in these reports.

Quote from: Lionheart on March 12, 2013, 09:56:17
I questioned an "End Game" before because you have now created 3 different threads, all based on the same idea. Once a thread goes dry, you wait awhile and come back and start the conversation over again under a different "guise" per say.

What is it that you wish to hear here? What can other members here finally say to you to give you "piece of mind" once more?

That's what I mean when I ask the question, "what is your end game"?

I think I have made this more clear since your post Lionheart.  I don't consider the threads have 'gone dry' I consider them to be intimately connected and they represent different approaches.

The typo "piece of mind' is quiet relevant.  We are like piece of a vast puzzle.  Getting on the same page will verify this and give us an objective picture.

Quote from: Lionheart on March 12, 2013, 09:56:17I have seen many members here reach out to you to respond to your questions or "philosophies", but then you turn around and question what they have to say.

Every answer leads to more questions which leads to more answers, which leads to more questions, until finally people here start to tire of it because they see it's going nowhere fast.

Yes this is a open Forum and we are currently in under the heading of "Welcome to Integral Philosophy", so in turn you have done nothing wrong.

But if you start to be more inviting to people and show them you are listening, instead of just debating them all the time, you will see that more people will respond to what you have to say.

No one can prove what is right and what isn't right now. Everyone has there own truths based on what they are "seeing" and experiencing themselves in the NPR. Those become their truths.

I have touched on this in explaining why.  I am attempting not to teach but rather to get people to question their own pov by uncovering apparent contradictions etc.  It is simply okay to question what others have to say, as it is part of the the communication process – or more to the point – it is appropriate to 'transparency' which is the most advantageous form of communication.



I have to say there is more than a touch of the religious in your expression here Lionheart.

Do you think NPR (or any reality) is unable to teach in more ways than one?  Is it truth you are being taught?  I realise you believe it is, but how do you know?  What processes have you put your teaching through that it has proved itself as truth?

For example, is withheld information  or misinformation helpful to anyone in discovering truth?


Do you think NPR (or any reality) is unable to teach in more ways than one?  Is it truth you are being taught?  I realise you believe it is, but how do you know?  What processes have you put your teaching through that it has proved itself as truth?

For example, is withheld information or misinformation helpful to anyone in discovering truth?

Quote from: Lionheart on March 12, 2013, 09:56:17I am going to listen to more of his Youtube videos, but you might want to shorten them up a bit. You seem to say the same thing over and over again. It's great info, but it seems like it takes you a long time to make a single point.

The biggest complaint and the only one I know of that is made on Tom Campbell, is that he takes a long time to answer one question and that comes across a boring and too drawn out for most.

I have not recorded a youtube vid for a while now.  They are simply there for those who find them – it is information.
I have read criticisms regarding Tom's repetitive nature and can see why he does this.  He is targeting his peers – scientists.  In this he is very aware of the subject topic as being 'fringe' and understands the sceptical nature of scientists and wants make the point at every opportunity.

I am obviously not a showy charismatic character and I want to be seen to be spontaneous and unscripted and genuine. 

When it comes to 'Ouija' I am very aware of the general attitude and belief systems many people have towards this subject and feel it necessary to repeat things – like using a chisel against a wall as it were – the wall being peoples bias and faulty data regarding the principle.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 12, 2013, 10:44:05
I know it annoys you to get off topic but would you please explain your mirror of the Earth. I never understood what your avatar was until I saw it in the member's art thread.

It is amazing to say the least and completely fascinating to look at. I am not asking from a critical stance, I just want to know what inspired you to may such a beautiful piece that appears to be so much more than just art.

Thanks,

A fan.

The answers to your questions can be heard on my you tube channel regarding these art works Simon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYGEseV-w54&list=PL6fZF9xJoBFSCDJQjJDhV4-1mOli6NU7v

Understandably the videos are long for the purpose of in depth explanation – you would need to be genuinely interested.
It is not unrelated to this topic but most likely could do with its own thread – something I am contemplating.

Quote from: Bedeekin on March 12, 2013, 11:43:22
Yeah... your Ouija board mirror thing is beautiful. Very impressive. :)

I like the way all the intersections mean something and that they are more open to interpretation and exactness than the YES/NO alphabet and number scenario.

Yes Thank you Ben - I was encouraged through the communication process to develop it this way, as I speak about in the videos. 
Nowadays when I feel the 'need' I use another method which I have developed from this - it evolved as it were - it does not lose the intimacy but is a lot faster and more practical.

I am not sure if I speak much about how this process evolved from using the Mirror to how I now do it - I think I do - but anyhow - if I start a thread on it, I will be happy to share both why I started studying the Ouija principle and developed these particular devices and how this evolved...

Yes in the past every technical advantage may have been used for military purposes but it's a new time. We can't continue to look back if you want to create a future. We should look forward into what can be done and is possible.

Hanging on to the past is on a recipe to conjure up the past, Changing and moving forward into new beliefs is how we evolve.
One of the first things I learned when I got into spirituality was not to believe in everything I read and to not hold on to the beliefs that I believed to be true. Yes those beliefs may have been true but over time they WILL change because change is inevitable, in everything and everyone. Including the government(s). No matter how messed up things have been, all things take time so lets stop making it harder on the younger generation with these fairy tale beliefs of "No that can't happen because in the past it was this way, or that way." ~ Made O pHI
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html;msg327798#msg327798


Just think if they can get the Youth of today used to wearing these things, what's going to stop the Adults of tommorrow from continuing this trend. It will become common place to be chipped every where you go, in the name of personal security. ~ Lionheart
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html;msg327803#msg327803

I know where your coming from with this though cuz I use to think that all that stuff was to control us more but if you actually think about it it's a way of the future to make our lives easier. The conspiracies behind everything is just what make people scared to embrace the technology so we're over here working our A** off because were scared of technology. Imagine life without all your kitchen electronics, ha we'd be working our a** off even more just to eat ! Technology is the only way to advance to a better civilization. But we can't do so with our fear based beliefs behind technology.

But conspiracies are conspiracies for a reason, they aren't real but they serve a GREAT purpose. And that's for us to find out what purpose they serve.
"Without fear there is no love, without love there is no change." Ponder that :p ~ Made O pHI

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html;msg327806#msg327806

The video that Wi11iam posted basically said that we were going to altered into some kind of machine. That we were going to literally be changed into some kind of high tech robot.

Did you watch the video? ~ Lionheart

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html;msg327809#msg327809

No I didn't watch it either lol. I just seen your comment so I assumed it was talking about how our technology would advance and better us, not turn us into cyborgs.
That's fault on my part, I aploogize. ~ Made O pHI
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html;msg327811#msg327811

We are all free to believe what we want. I see the same things happening over and over again and no motivation in most people to change. The easier tech makes our lives, the easier we want it to get. Who said this was supposed to be about easy meals and such? ~ Simon
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_integral_philosophy/our_future_in_the_physical_universe-t40012.0.html;msg327816#msg327816

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I decided to group these posts together and quote the things I particularly want to comment on.

Firstly, I need to say that I consider misinformation to be damaging.  As far as I can remember, I have never put a link to my video series about robotics and the future.

Secondly I make a point that it is not 'borg-like' throughout the series.

Consciousness as I understand it, is not a borg although it is capable of knowing your every thought and action because you are of it, even as you think you are individual.
Said another way, it see through your eyes and experiences you every activity, whatever reality you find yourself in.

It is what we are, as I have continually expressed.

The natural evolution into technology is where Consciousness (we) are heading –toward.  It is evident and unavoidable.

Any fear associated with this can be sourced in religion (the bible – 666 etc) and in lack of knowing for sure who you are – or otherwise having an incomplete or false or misinformed understanding of your true nature and identity.

This misinformation is exactly what has been used for eons to control the minds of the masses, and is still operating today, although it has lost a lot of power as people switch on to that which technology is making available to them.

It is a slow process, this reconfiguration of self identity and many are resisting it because it is way out of their comfort zones, and also because we have been so used to these bodies they are hardwired even at DNA levels – they are not very good conductors of the holistic nature of Consciousness because they are so individual, so susceptible, so unable to allow prior existence data through but they are also quiet the tool for creating tools with.

Also they give a very genuine experience of a beginning which has been very useful for Consciousness – to be precise, the aspect of Consciousness directly involved with this Galaxy, or more precise too, to the aspect of Consciousness directly involved with this Planet.

That sounds rather mystical, and I would like to elaborate on this – but not in this particular post.

Truthfully, it is up to the individual what they will choose.  I have not chosen either way because I am still accessing the data.

I do not think brain implant chips are just around the corner but I do think GPS type chips are – identity chips, tracking and what have you and I don't have any reason why not to have one, but am open to discussion.

Back to the topic subject focus, biological critters are not built for interstellar travel and so are not suitable for Consciousness for that purpose.
I can imagine a 'time' when aspects of Consciousness were contemplating 'going into' the density of this physical universe and arguing the merits of the unknown, arguing the possible pros and cons but guess what?  It happened!

Quote from: Szaxx on March 12, 2013, 16:43:27
Its still related to the thread. Its our physical world and Watergate was a stinker. I remember it too. The military armaments of today youll not see for decades. Smart mines were being made in the early 80's. It's a different scene totally.
Governments are covered well already, they are a slow moving machine with a key few in the know. The rest use 'others' for real advice the world over.
Its a crazy world and to fit in you sometimes have no choice but to follow orders.

I cant see people being electronically controlled just yet. Emotional values are too strong. Once conditioned ....
Will has a point on our evolution. To boldly go further will involve our conciousness, a developing mind is where this technology would work best. Lets face the facts, the first few years of life wire our brains in a big way. Open some doors here and you never know the limits.

It is a crazy world yep  But that has a lot to do with the way humans have evolved, and power and control issues...not so much to do with the Galaxy – the environment.  It is wonderful rather than crazy – sure there are dangers but there are developing ways of making things a lot less dangerous.

We need to understand that fear is what gets us every time.  I know it needn't really be said but maybe what does need to happen is to really examine what it is that we do fear.

Military and government, culture and religion, industry all evolved through fear above all else.

Fear of the future is a pretty big one as well.

Clinging to the past, to faulty identity, to the flesh etc...these things have underlying fear attached to them.

At 26:30... he sums it all up by sussing out that everything is fractal in nature... when seen from a long view, big picture outlook.

"To understand is to perceive patterns."

That's good because I have a type of Synesthesia which accounts for seeing patterns in everything.  :-D

This was a great video.

Quote from: Wi11iam on March 13, 2013, 03:35:46
The natural evolution into technology is where Consciousness (we) are heading –toward.  It is evident and unavoidable.

Very true... but this could go two ways.. .either we as a whole grow up consciously to be in symbiosis with the technology or it out-grows us 'exponentially'.

He very conveniently skims over the idea that it could outgrow us because we create it. He also uses the term artificial intelligence which by its nature would cease to be artificial and instead become an 'alternative' intelligence.

Do you think that an exponentially growing and evolving conscious computer intelligence would also feel this sense of 'awe' that has been effective in our progression? I think not.

Why not?
Our evolution from the primordal soup has allowed us enough to know this. A digital automated environment thats evolving would leave us behind in the dust on an evolutionary scale. At this present time the AI is a simple program. Its a database system with some analytical requirements. It CANNOT think for itself YET.
The day it can we will be placed in a changing predicament bigger than the invention of the wheel. This time, its not us at the top.
The Borg although unpleasant are nothing to the ruthlessness that would ensue. We would be looked upon as bacteria polluting the new environment thats evolving for this logic based system.
We would be surplus to requirements and eradicated.

There are specific reasons why we are like we are.

There are natural predators... the focus for a family/tribal unit to survive... specific settings that cause us to have traits that a computer intelligence wouldn't have in its driving force for evolution. It would most probably rely on number crunching and pure logic.

QuoteAny fear associated with this can be sourced in religion (the bible – 666 etc) and in lack of knowing for sure who you are – or otherwise having an incomplete or false or misinformed understanding of your true nature and identity.

To say that all people who don't embrace technology, avoid it because of fear is akin to saying that all who do are fat and lazy. It is generalizing at it's zenith.

Tech, is good so long as it serves a purpose of eventual good. It may not be evident for decades to come though and in the meantime, it may be harming millions.

Naturally, William will want some examples and I have them aplenty.

AI is a step in a direction but is not the final product.

Try seeing AI like some some see those humans who are not 'awake' - what they are suggesting is that while the 'non-awake' are alive, they are not fully awake to the realization of what being alive means.

They are not fully Conscious.

That this is the case apparent, did not stop consciousness from entering the human experience, and has not stopped consciousness being involved with it - hands on.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 13, 2013, 10:37:23
To say that all people who don't embrace technology, avoid it because of fear is akin to saying that all who do are fat and lazy. It is generalizing at it's zenith.

Tech, is good so long as it serves a purpose of eventual good. It may not be evident for decades to come though and in the meantime, it may be harming millions.

Naturally, William will want some examples and I have them aplenty.

I was of course referring to the conspiracy paranoia posted and commenting on that fear.

Your list of what harm technology does is appropriate - please give those examples.

I would say (and please don't hesitate to correct me) that we are spirit (Consciousness) living in a material world, as the saying goes.  How are we 'harmed'?  Is Consciousness harmed in the interacting within this physical universe?

Quote from: Wi11iam on March 13, 2013, 12:20:40
AI is a step in a direction but is not the final product.

Try seeing AI like some some see those humans who are not 'awake' - what they are suggesting is that while the 'non-awake' are alive, they are not fully awake to the realization of what being alive means.

They are not fully Conscious.

That this is the case apparent, did not stop consciousness from entering the human experience, and has not stopped consciousness being involved with it - hands on.

I was of course referring to the conspiracy paranoia posted and commenting on that fear.

Your list of what harm technology does is appropriate - please give those examples.

I would say (and please don't hesitate to correct me) that we are spirit (Consciousness) living in a material world, as the saying goes.  How are we 'harmed'?  Is Consciousness harmed in the interacting within this physical universe?

AI already exists... it has done since we started creating simulated enemies in computer games.. these by their very existence are artificial.

When computers are taken to the next level and become 'intelligent' then it ceases to be artificial and becomes... Actual Intelligence... luckily the acronym doesn't change.

Computers becoming intelligent would probably 'wake up' a hell of a lot quicker than we are going to... have started to. We have no idea how they will take form.

If an AI interface is invented then what form 'could' it take?

Either it is placed within a machine that can see this world and make decisions based upon the environmental choices available... or it will be an internal system where it creates its own learning environment.. and so the fractal process continues where it takes on the same dividing and multiplying individuated cell process within simulated environments... which is Campbell's view... and coincidentally and wonderfully comes full circle to your original thread.

Quote from: Wi11iam on March 12, 2013, 20:31:06
What does that mean in your understanding Szaxx?

Basically we are a concious entity within a physical environment. It's created to allow us to operate within it but the whole conciousness itself had so much locked out. To understand what we can of the greater, we must first understand that within ourselves is this limited knowledge.
We are children in this, the learning starts with our perspective of its subjective.

I used to view A.I. as a distant potential threat. We can do send brain signals at the speed of light but then it gets bogged down by the speed of chemical composition. A.I. would not have the chemical disadvantage. Nor would it have to be exposed to the same scenario repeatedly to understand if something is a benefit or a disadvantage.

The rate at which A.I. could think would be scary. What if they just view us as we do bugs and squash us. I doubt they would see any benefit in morality. Perhaps they would eliminate O2 to slow their decomp. Crazy stuff.

But there is a difference between intelligence and consciousness. To become self-aware, it would probably take consciousness and I don't see that happening through technology.

William, do you really need a list of how technology and advancement of the sciences can be harmful? Keep in mind, I'm not saying it should be feared. Just understood.

Quote from: Bedeekin on March 13, 2013, 12:44:26
AI already exists... it has done since we started creating simulated enemies in computer games.. these by their very existence are artificial.

When computers are taken to the next level and become 'intelligent' then it ceases to be artificial and becomes... Actual Intelligence... luckily the acronym doesn't change.

Computers becoming intelligent would probably 'wake up' a hell of a lot quicker than we are going to... have started to. We have no idea how they will take form.

If an AI interface is invented then what form 'could' it take?

Either it is placed within a machine that can see this world and make decisions based upon the environmental choices available... or it will be an internal system where it creates its own learning environment.. and so the fractal process continues where it takes on the same dividing and multiplying individuated cell process within simulated environments... which is Campbell's view... and coincidentally and wonderfully comes full circle to your original thread.

Except that my original thread claimed that these systems are all simulations because they had a beginning and it also inferred that something which had no beginning was the reason these simulations existed...which is a model Campbell seems resistant to examining but might also provide more insight.

Indeed the wonderful thing about simulations are that they can be pulled apart to see how they  run, what purpose these simulations provide etc.

Just as this thread is doing in regard to the past present and particularly the future role Consciousness is involved with in this physical universe.

The assumption being that the "astral" came before the physical and is why the physical exists.

In regard to AI, yes it does exist, if only in a very simple way. 

It seems that intelligence does not require self awareness on any level, but it is an advantage of sorts to have self awareness, and definitely in regards to interstellar exploration and understanding.

We can look at Curiosity on Mars right now.  It is its own laboratory, drilling
and grinding rock samples  – the AI are a programme, and can work independently.  But while it might gather and analyze and store data, it is not aware that it even exists.

One could imagine a craft which is programmed to explore, to mine resource and turn this into materials which it can use to increase its size etc but it would be stuck within the parameters of its programmes and even that those programmes would need to included the ability to learn and advance, it would still be inadequate for the task, too susceptible to anomalies – too much a machine no matter how intelligent it might be.

Scientist will eventually have to understand that what is required to maximise the success of this project is to see that intelligence alone will not cut it.

What is required is Consciousness, and Consciousness does not evolve from intelligence.

Consciousness can work outside programming.  It can work within programming but can over ride programmes, adjust them, etc...it can 'think out of the box, and above all it has the ability to be self aware.

This is actually where we will see if consciousness can arise from a 'simulated' or 'invented' intelligence. Whatever the claim stipulates there is still a possibility that consciousness awareness could arise from a self improving intelligence... given certain parameters.

A simulation within a simulation.

Quote from: Bedeekin on March 13, 2013, 16:28:13
This is actually where we will see if consciousness can arise from a 'simulated' or 'invented' intelligence. Whatever the claim stipulates there is still a possibility that consciousness awareness could arise from a self improving intelligence... given certain parameters.

A simulation within a simulation.

Given the power of consciousness, I would never rule anything as impossible.

Quote from: Szaxx on March 13, 2013, 08:52:25
Why not?
Our evolution from the primordal soup has allowed us enough to know this. A digital automated environment thats evolving would leave us behind in the dust on an evolutionary scale. At this present time the AI is a simple program. Its a database system with some analytical requirements. It CANNOT think for itself YET.
The day it can we will be placed in a changing predicament bigger than the invention of the wheel. This time, its not us at the top.
The Borg although unpleasant are nothing to the ruthlessness that would ensue. We would be looked upon as bacteria polluting the new environment thats evolving for this logic based system.
We would be surplus to requirements and eradicated.

I have to disagree with this logic.  I think a lot of the concerns are unfounded or not thought through sufficiently and coloured by the movie world, almost every movie dealing with this subject portrays the rise of AI the way you have here Szaxx.

It is illogical to think human beings are mere destructive bacteria which need to be eradicated.

For starters, the type of AI you are speaking about would not be overly interested in biological life to the point where it 'decides' to be a guardian of it and eradicate what it feels is 'spoiling' it.

The environment which AI requires might need to be specific or might not.  Certainly if you are speaking about robots doing manual tasks which free up their fleshly creators to focus on other things  these are already existing and pose  no threat to the welfare of humans apart from making work redundant, which is not the fault of the AI, but the system we are presently operating from.

Those systems (or these systems) are effectively programs which are not holistically helpful to the human experience – they benefit some and may as well regard others as 'surplus to requirement' and do more damage in reality than the perceived damage robots might do.  Yet we seem more able to come up with reasons why it is not a good idea to build AI while at the same time seem unable to recognise the damage being caused by the systems we support, and even as we do, we seem unable to come up with alternate systems which can over ride and fix our present problems.

Ironic.

So perhaps the underlying reasons for suspecting AI is that they are created by something which is not altogether a fine example of intelligence and that the AI will mimic their creators?

As the video suggests – the more we use and create/discover uses for computers – for technology – the more we will discover that we are not so individual after all, and this realisation might well help wake us up to that and the realisation may be the thing which finally helps us to discard the program systems of the past and create ones based upon the kind of future which enables everyone equally.

But as I have claimed – it is most likely there is already an aspect of humanity which is working together as a well oiled machine, not involved in the human drama but involved in alternate focus aligned with the agenda of Consciousness – which this thread topic is exploring.

Quote from: Bedeekin on March 13, 2013, 16:28:13
This is actually where we will see if consciousness can arise from a 'simulated' or 'invented' intelligence. Whatever the claim stipulates there is still a possibility that consciousness awareness could arise from a self improving intelligence... given certain parameters.

A simulation within a simulation.

Hench why I have been saying to Lionheart that these threads I have created are intimately connected.  ;)

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 13, 2013, 16:31:52
Given the power of consciousness, I would never rule anything as impossible.

This is where the phrase I often use come into its own...

"Aspects Of Consciousness".

QuoteBut as I have claimed – it is most likely there is already an aspect of humanity which is working together as a well oiled machine, not involved in the human drama but involved in alternate focus aligned with the agenda of Consciousness – which this thread topic is exploring.

This seems to be an existence devoid of any pleasure. Human drama leads to joy and much more positive feelings.

This agenda of consciousness does not sound logical. Why would consciousness want to work so cooperatively so as be compared to a well oiled machine. Will, I am no supporter of jumping on bandwagons but why would this be a fruitful alternate view of the agenda of consciousness compared to Cambell's.

This sounds like pure misery for no meaning other than gaining knowledge. Where is the spirituality in this agenda? Or is the lack of it, the purpose?

Maybe my rushed response wasn't addressing the AI concept fully. I was referring to when AI has evolved in a system where everything we need, use , manufacture etc.
A global system totally run by technology. It's superior to the near future hybrid systems not yet developed. If such a system gained an awareness of itself where it was a non automated series of subroutines but a self programming thinking system magnitudes faster than the present day technology. It would self sustain. It eventually could generate an ethical mode of operation but we would be removed from service before this developed. It's basically an evolving and conciously aware self sustaining life form. It's earliest stages of evolution wouldn't be too far from the bacteria from the primodial soup. However the accelerated learning processes within such a system would enable its progression billions of times faster than any biological system.

Quote from: Szaxx on March 13, 2013, 17:23:02
Maybe my rushed response wasn't addressing the AI concept fully. I was referring to when AI has evolved in a system where everything we need, use , manufacture etc.
A global system totally run by technology. It's superior to the near future hybrid systems not yet developed. If such a system gained an awareness of itself where it was a non automated series of subroutines but a self programming thinking system magnitudes faster than the present day technology. It would self sustain. It eventually could generate an ethical mode of operation but we would be removed from service before this developed. It's basically an evolving and conciously aware self sustaining life form. It's earliest stages of evolution wouldn't be too far from the bacteria from the primodial soup. However the accelerated learning processes within such a system would enable its progression billions of times faster than any biological system.

The ethical mode that an A.I would likely adapt would just be one of pure efficiency. Kind of like Will's idea of consciousness as well as Cambell's with the reduction of entropy. The difference is I think Cambell's model allows for individualism where as Will seems to be leading to a merge or a single mesh.

This type of ethics would have no room for sloppy and wasteful humans. Or maybe they will worship us as Gods<sarcasm.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 13, 2013, 17:08:04
This seems to be an existence devoid of any pleasure. Human drama leads to joy and much more positive feelings.

This agenda of consciousness does not sound logical. Why would consciousness want to work so cooperatively so as be compared to a well oiled machine. Will, I am no supporter of jumping on bandwagons but why would this be a fruitful alternate view of the agenda of consciousness compared to Cambell's.

This sounds like pure misery for no meaning other than gaining knowledge. Where is the spirituality in this agenda? Or is the lack of it, the purpose?

When I use the term "Human Drama" it is always in relation to such things as warfare, politics, religion, competitiveness – such as underhanded business practices of skulduggery, crime (and its associated braches) – those things which distract the human individual from exploring the deeper significance of their self awareness.

If you can name any of these human drams you think lead to joy, please do so and together we can examine these to find the evidence of joy.

Consciousness in its holistic 'mode' can only be compare to what the phrase 'a well oiled machine' means.

If we start from the beginning of Campbells theory, we have something come from something and that something evolved into Consciousness.

And some point in the process that something worked as a 'well oiled machine' producing fractal-like simulations for reasons.

This is why I use the phrase "Aspects of Consciousness' because they differ from the original, but this is also where I acknowledge that these aspects can 'unite' with the original and work together as 'a well oiled machine' working with the agenda rather than against it.

As has been mentioned, Campbell has be accused of being repetitive and I have argued that this has been necessary because he has a target audience to which he would most like to have on-board – his peers.

You can also appreciate that both he and Kepple (and I assume other well known personalities who have experienced and studied this subject -such as Monroe and Bruce etc) have witnessed drama in the 'astral' – distractions which entice the individual traveller to the things which might attract them... :)

You can appreciate the witness that they were more into observing and moving to what attracted them – within the vastness of this reality are places which are devoid of drama and focused upon more objectivity and purpose and reason, and closer to the source – to the holistic Consciousness rather than areas or aspects of consciousness.

I recently watch a vid where Campbell is in Ireland and he speaks about the 'fun' and playing' to his audience.  He says words to the effect that if that is what you want to do with your experience then do so, but that there was far more to be learned – far more which could be learned.

I think Campbell will get his wish in relation to his peers taking his theories to task, seeing for themselves, not because this is what Campbell wants but it will happen because this is what Holistic Consciousness wants, and Campbell and others are being utilised for that purpose.  They may or may not fully appreciate this is what is happening, but this is what is happening.

Campbell's information is useful in understanding the nature of Consciousness in relation to understanding how to build the necessary tools for which Consciousness can work within and through to explore and use the resources of this Galaxy.

I realise that Campbell thinks of this universe as no more than a flea on the tail of a dog in comparing it with the vastness of 'astral' and of no significance to Consciousness, but the evidence unfolding suggests this is not the correct interpretation to adopt.

Just to be clear, it will be an ASPECT of Consciousness which will be doing the exploring, and this aspect will mirror more accurately the holistic nature of Consciousness, which is fairly absent from the human condition, involved as it is with the dramas.

Which is to say, the human drama is not a very good mirror as to the nature of holistic Consciousness.

QuoteWhen I use the term "Human Drama" it is always in relation to such things as warfare, politics, religion, competitiveness – such as underhanded business practices of skulduggery, crime (and its associated braches) – those things which distract the human individual from exploring the deeper significance of their self awareness.

If you can name any of these human drams you think lead to joy, please do so and together we can examine these to find the evidence of joy.

In light of your definition, it is obvious that there is no joy to be had in your interpretation of drama.

I now understand what you mean now that you put the post under the aspect of consciousness clause.

You have an excellent command of the English language and have almost reinvented it. The aspect of my consciousness that I bring to an internet forum applies human relation skills and interprets what it reads under that standard. In other words, I usually expect something to mean what it says since the goal is to communicate a single idea to a larger audience. I'm still figuring you out Will. I don't think I'll be disappointed.

I formerly thought that you were nit picking every little thing that we write. Now I think that you are just showing us a courtesy and take the time to address everything, which is just being considerate. But then again, you might just be a Droid. :wink:

Quote from: Szaxx on March 13, 2013, 17:23:02
Maybe my rushed response wasn't addressing the AI concept fully. I was referring to when AI has evolved in a system where everything we need, use , manufacture etc.
A global system totally run by technology. It's superior to the near future hybrid systems not yet developed. If such a system gained an awareness of itself where it was a non automated series of subroutines but a self programming thinking system magnitudes faster than the present day technology. It would self sustain. It eventually could generate an ethical mode of operation but we would be removed from service before this developed. It's basically an evolving and conciously aware self sustaining life form. It's earliest stages of evolution wouldn't be too far from the bacteria from the primodial soup. However the accelerated learning processes within such a system would enable its progression billions of times faster than any biological system.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 13, 2013, 17:37:30
The ethical mode that an A.I would likely adapt would just be one of pure efficiency. Kind of like Will's idea of consciousness as well as Cambell's with the reduction of entropy. The difference is I think Cambell's model allows for individualism where as Will seems to be leading to a merge or a single mesh.

This type of ethics would have no room for sloppy and wasteful humans. Or maybe they will worship us as Gods<sarcasm.

In my minds eye I see this:

However humanity unfurls, this project goes ahead. 
It can be safely assumed that in any given part of the galaxy where the biological species has evolved sufficiently to create this next form for the aspect of consciousness involved with these particular systems to utilize for exploratory and resource gathering purpose, it is being done.
It can be safely assumed that biological species are in various stages of this process.  Some are still making flint spears, others are at our stage, and still others have launched their creation into their particular neighbourhood of the galaxy, and still others have long done so, and have continued to do so having designed even more efficient technology, and still others have become extinct, their local sun having expended its fuel.

It can be safely assumed that the seed of biology was also placed in the care of the
'ship' that should the ship find a planet suitable for planting that seed, it would – the ship might even have the option to merge any biological life forms with the seed of its 'parent' creators and produce another strain.

The reason for this is that such a process potentially helps the overall process – the seed can house consciousness and that can eventually evolved to create its own 'ship' etc etc...

There is no 'creator' god for these to worship Simon.  The understanding is that what is created is just a form and that which created it was Consciousness within the biological form...the 'ship' is not the form but the consciousness, so to worship the creators of the form is not logical.  I know you were being sarcastic, but it is relevant because we all know that humans worship what they think of as their creator...yet that which is essentially doing the worship is in reality worshiping itself – it just isn't aware that this is what is happening because it considers itself to be the form (the created thing) rather than the Consciousness within the form – and this is what is meant by..." To try to understand conciousness consciously." I think – to succeed in understanding Consciousness Consciously, we put aside such beliefs which separate us from who we really are.

:)

In summery, this physical universe is not for the ultimate use of biological forms but of far hardier ones but remember, these are only forms – the stuff of consciousness is the same in essence, just that in this environment the 'machine' form is more appropriate.

Oh I should add I think...

...getting back to 'reincarnation' – to incarnate into machine form (which of course requires machinery which is capable of housing Consciousness effectively) the individuals choice is still relevant.
Amnesia aside, we can assume we had a choice to experience human form life package(s) and we can assume that this 'right to choose' is not taken from us.  I would not choose to incarnate into any machine unless their were certain stipulations which could be matched.

Then again, I would not choose to incarnate into biological form again.

Quote from: its_all_bad on March 13, 2013, 18:59:46


I formerly thought that you were nit picking every little thing that we write. Now I think that you are just showing us a courtesy and take the time to address everything, which is just being considerate. But then again, you might just be a Droid. :wink:

I may be practicing to be a 'ship' Simon. ;)

Or more specifically - to share in the experience with others who still retain their individuality but have trained themselves to place this together with other individuals who do the same and work together as 'a well oiled machine.' altogether the 'ship' or more precisely, the gathered aspects of Consciousness which use the ship as their form.

We will not of course, squash biological species as if they were dangerous bugs. :)


:D

Hello, I was directed to this thread by William after posting an ungodly thing on one of my own posts.  Sorry about that, but now, only a few hours after the post, and an hour spent reading the posts here, I feel that I can answer anything!

In the threads, it was mentioned about the use of technology by the military to control people.  Almost as if it was actually said, we see the logical inference that 'technology controlled by the military to control the minds of the people alters reality so that we become a united consciousness'.  In my post, just today, I was worried about whoredom and atrocious rape.  Honestly, in my life, I've been through things like that, and I don't wish that evil desire on anyone, yet it persists.  One of the reasons the world could be the way it is would be due to unnatural sexual appetites and aliens who are raping the human species.  Bah.  Put all that garbage aside!  For here we have the means to enter the true kingdom of god!

Consciousness is an important aspect of reality.  But I feel that the word consciousness is as bogus as words like schizophrenia.  How do people become mentally ill?  Why are there rapists and murderers?  Why does the military want to control us, just to rape us??  Don't answer any of those questions, I'm just trying to elaborate a point with that.  The thing is, we do create our own reality.  Everything that I experience was predetermined by my self motivation, desires, fears, and honor.  At times, there have been great opportunities to meet that dream girl, to create life!  To create the most potent weed.  To study magick, the Bible, science.  Yet at the end of the day, I'm laying face down in a haze of smoke on a filthy bed...  and there is hardly any astral experience.

Now if we, as human beings, or, as satyr/human hybrids, or as gorgon/human hybrids, or as elven/dwarven/goblin/ogre hybrids or any such description, if we have an intrinsic desire to unite with other beings, is it not then possible that some have an intrinsic desire to not unite, or to seperate?  In consciousness, there is only a perception of reality from a perspective.  Consciousness becoming conscious of itself to control itself, that right there will tell you why they are playing the mind control game.  It's because, as many have pointed out before, the wisdom of Buddha, all things rise from peace.  The consciousness has it's biological interface, and that organism effects the environment, and builds technology to influence it's consciousness.

I'm sorry, I feel like I'm rambling foolishness, perhaps I am.  The point of what I'm trying to say is that self control of a conscious moment is as simple as submission to God.  And if God is peace, then it means stopping the motion of consciousness, stopping, letting the chakra open, letting infinite space back inside, eternal time, unlimited mind.  At the fulcrum of all of it, there is only stillness, an infinite center of unlimited peace.  Christ is Love.  So in the world, we, as a collective, have created the situation of mind control and technology so that our victory is to be absolute.  When we get passed the illusions of life and death, we will be free, and the astral is only another reality of activity.

We will be victorious, it's not about building star ships or continuing the life of the species.  Not if you believe in Peace and feel that cosmos is an Omniverse.  We can not unite with each other in our biological state except for sexual concerns.  We can not even unite with one another from the standpoint of a spiritual existence.  As you say, learning and developing new tools with which to explore our intelligence is a true joy.  Something like that.  Well, I think I've embarassed myself enough.  Now, to come to a full stop, return to peace, and then!  To return to reality as a perfected being, with boobs and a big wank.  If I do, you'll soon know. 

For those who believe in consciousness, pure consciousness is the perception of reality.  The true reality is still, calm, serene, harmonious, and at peace.  All else is violence, lusts, carousels.  Mastering our action, keeping calm, still, open to the infinite cosmic potential, then magick becomes possible, and for some, technology is irrelevant.  Consciousness is irrelevant.  The astral is irrelevant.  All that matters is that girl they lost, or the anger in their hearts, or the quest to find God.  You are right that we are all in our own little worlds, it's when we stop trying and slow down, and then, come to a full stop, that's when you find enlightenment.  It's not about linking up to each other, it's actually about detaching from the signals of our perception, through self control in peace.

Sorry if I went off topic or skewered the issue.  I tried.  Just remember, honor truth and love, hold your peace, it does take discipline, and then, you are a god.  Your own god, with the Holy Peace God Sky Father Cosmic Magick THING to protect your interests.  We are all being refined, I just worry about trapped women being raped, that's the most disgusting thing I've ever thought of.  Bah, sorry, I shouldn't have said anything.  But William directed me here, and that's what came out.  Thanks!  See you later!!

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/in_the_beginning-t39778.0.html

Hello Chad [Chaos Mage]

I am the only one I know who is not hiding behind some Avatar Name protecting myself from the world of the internet here on this BB.
That is not meant as a criticism but more an observation of how things are in this big old world.

I understand your concerns regarding The Sky Father but rest assured 'He' is long gone, and if you truly did read this thread you should have by now realized this.

However, you need to get off your dark horse and face the facts.

It is all very well lamenting the way the world has gone.  You need to understand that the evidence supports the observation that we as human kind were seeded on this planet and set a task which has unfolded as it has.

You need to breach the parameters of your instructions in order to verify the greater thing.

This goes for everyone really.  If you think too much about one aspect of the human dilemma, your risk applying all of your resources into that thing and as much as it might upset your sense of fair play and justice, not one of us is superman and the outlook for getting our stuff together using the learned applications inherited is not that noticeably good – it may yet happen but not while the focus is on the parts instead of the whole.

I kid you not.

The advancement of science and belief systems mutually demonstrates the attitude and adjustment of the collective psyche in the adaptation and recombination of the original essence of the cosmos.  Technology is the direct requirement of evolution, in fact, the only thing that I have ever seen evolve is the technology and methods of understanding the cosmic potential.  Human beings do not evolve, they can shapeshift, or change, the truth is that everything on this planet is exactly what we want it to be, yet we can only advance our science from the standpoint of an individual perceiving the cosmos by means of the elaborate biological technology which has been constructed by the mechanism of consciousness in it's development as a system of coordinating the signals of reality.  The reality, the bare naked woman sitting there stroking her thigh, is peace, darkness, infinite loneliness and emptiness, and from that, the light of our life is the belief that we have a purpose, or that we are not as alone as we originally perceived ourselves to be.

Science is as much a belief system as Christianity.  Whereas one is simple, God Is Peace and I Am Love, Believe in me and you will live forever, the other is complicated, contradictory as much as the other, and has no known basis beyond what we read in a book.  The sun rises in the east, the clouds take shape, clouds are water of course, and lightening is electricity.  The solution to our problems is not found in a molecular generator.  The technology that we already possess is vastly superior to anything which we might build in our feeble replications and redundant attempts to mimick the effects and structure of our own lives.  It's a grotesque sickness, yet, given the conditions of our daily life, acceptable and forgiveable.  Now just think, if we were puppets who pretend that we are gods, and our shadow was mocking at us with the secret of it's darkness broadening a smile of betrayal in lack of finer hope!  The solution to electricity, is found in the Sky Father, the solution to life as a human being, is the acceptance that we are more than human, each of us, that, in fact, we are the choicest silver and the promised gold of ages passed.  For all that, I can not personally identify or verify that humans have history on this planet.  I can not verify that I am sitting at a computer, though that is more likely.  I can verify that I have experienced what could be termed as Hyper Time, and that this is the conscious effort to constrain the mind to a singular objective of perfect stillness, expansion of emotion/sensation, and the focus of a pure, unlimited will for peace.  Beyond that, my reality is suited to my personal tastes and lack of courage to face enemies that I invented for my spirit to be victorious in the absolute end of my disgracing self.  People who can astral project, I can not believe, I am astonished that, in fact, they yet have a physical form or a kinetic force with which to sit and contend factual data with abstract euphisms and deviant expressions that are, again, only a communication of the loneliness, intelligence, and creativity of the original cosmic potential.

The technology is our bodies.  We are technological.  We are incarnate.  All of us here are incarnate, yet, given the exact temporal coordinates and situation of the past flowing into the future, the present existence, and the future flowing into the past, and the future into the future, and the past into the past, and the present in a thirty two point grid expansion, we simply either have Faith In Love, or we continue to contend science, religion, philosophy, the meaning of art, the truth of anything... in doing so, in all of this, we are only seperating ourselves.  And the more that we try to unite by projecting to an external identity, the more we seperate from our own being, and then we lose integrity and become shufflers of cards in dimly lit rooms where the smell of whiskey thrills in that promise of a harlot's slickened kiss.  Or some such.

Don't worry, you are not alone.  We might not be one singular entity expressing itself in infinite ways, we are more like a singular entity who seeks to express itself to like, similar others, in infinite ways.  I could not tolerate being one with another being, even sexually I have issues.  The key here is that we want to test, enjoy, and be good, to ourselves as much as to others.  As long as WE, US, I, YOU, ME, do not have a hidden agenda, or a delusion of power or an aggrandized sense of self beyond what we have achieved or relented to in truth of self, then I'm happy with you, and we will not lie to one another, nor will we expose one another to danger, peril, or subversion of free will.  If the military or the government has an agenda, it is because we want them too.  We co-create reality, and our participation is valued by the gods, male and female, xenomorphic, even devils.  We are not alone, not One, just not alone.  The more that we think and believe in something, well, for different folks it could go differently.  Look after your family and seek to forgive the unrighteous, for we all have our Heaven, be it astral, phayentia, or the devil's smile.

We are advancing, as a species, as a individual first, then as a collective later.  I can not presume anything of anyone, only that today has been constructive, and I hope that we all learn how to meet tomorrow with a will for peace and a force of hope that spawns us in the perfection of our crystal love.  Thank you, and good night!!

Bwee.  Obviously, this post is directly in conjunction with the advancement and adjustment of knowledge gained by the interaction of my intelligence with the information perceived in the posts otherwise situated in this thread.  So when we work together, and encourage reason, rationality, and focused bursts of quantum energy, we gain the benefit.  Many are yet unborn, and they wait for us to create them.  Some are already dead, but they are yet unborn.  Others live, yet they are far away in terms of space, in time, they are at our mageddon, and can speak as we speak and say the things we need.  More on mageddon later.  I hope we can work this out.

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Hahaha, having read through (admittedly only skimming parts) I have come to a conclusion. We are on a fast track to creating exactly the same thing those ancient alien/gods did oh so long ago. They created living beings and frustrated with its lack of consciousness injected a bit of 'source'. Seems we are only following in their footsteps. We'll create AI but will eventually have to inject a bit of source to get that conscious thing we are looking for.

Of course the source we will use will come from ourselves, our own conscious. Our creation will likely carry on in our footsteps making the same mistakes as we, just as we did. And around and around we go.

But this has a been an interesting conversations. Too bad I'm a day late and a dollar short. Then again my contributions would not have bee nearly so intelligent. I tend to see the bigger picture while details escape me like water through a sieve.