philosophy and drugs

Logic · September 22, 2003, 22:29:40

Weed stimulates unused parts of the brain, and induces stronger, faster thinking which is also much more vivid and clear than normal. Weed does NOT kill braincells, pretty much most of the rumors behind marijuana being harmful are fake.

LSD directly stimulates the pineal gland, artificially 'openning' the third eye. LSD is considered non-toxic because what you would need to kill you, would be somewhere between 4000-40,000 times the dosage that you need to get high. Users of LSD and other strong psychadelics and hallucinagens have developed schitzophrenia, however, this is only found in patients who have a history of family mental illness, or a personal mental illness. Drugs cannot create mental illness, but only 'release' dormant future illnesses, such as scitzophrenia. Anyone who develops such an illness would have had developed it later along in their lives.

DMT is probably among the strongest of all hallucinagens, users claim to experience waking astral projection, as they are pulled from their bodies into an alternate reality, intensivly more vivid than anything imaginable. Some members of the forum already know of DMT and its role in human existance, as it is the spirit molecule in which life enters and exits this third dimension.

Religion and authority have used propaganda to convince the general public of how drugs are 'evil' and 'dangerous', which is certainly not the case if things like weed, lsd, etc.. are used responsibly. If you choose to use drugs, do so responsibly, for your saftey and the saftey of others.

I myself have had quite some fantastic philisophical experiences with weed, as well as salvia divinorium, a spiritual drug which used by shamans grows around central america.
In recent cases, I was able to slightly open my third eye and apparenyly see my large crown chakra, or someting like that.

WalkerInTheWoods · September 23, 2003, 05:22:21

quote:
Originally posted by warlockyoshi

How many of you have tried marajauna? How many of you have successfully travelled on the asral plane using marajauna? For those of you who haven't I recomend that you do.

Yeah all I need is to loose my job because I have an illegal substance in my system that I used to reach a state that I can reach without this substance.

I will give you that most of the propaganda is not entirely true and that some drugs do have benefits. But the truth is that not everyone is responsible with drugs which can be dangerous to themself and others depending on the drug. This also does not change the fact that there are laws about drugs, and reguardless of how beneficial they may be for you, you will still have to face the law if caught breaking it. You don't need drugs to have these experiences, just practice. It is all inside you.

It should also be noted that in Astral Dynamics Robert Bruce says that of those people that had really bad experiences, they were using some kind of drugs during the experiences. Now this does not mean that just because you use drugs that you will have bad experiences, but it does seem to increase the chances.

beavis · September 23, 2003, 06:16:16

fallnangel "Yeah all I need is to loose my job because I have an illegal substance in my system that I used to reach a state that I can reach without this substance."

You can reach the state of california without using the drug 'car', but you wont get there as fast.

WalkerInTheWoods · September 23, 2003, 08:15:01

quote:
Originally posted by beavis

fallnangel "Yeah all I need is to loose my job because I have an illegal substance in my system that I used to reach a state that I can reach without this substance."

You can reach the state of california without using the drug 'car', but you wont get there as fast.

So which is the goal, the speed or reaching your destination? Atleast by not using the car drug I don't have to worry about getting a speeding ticket. lol It is also not illegal to be in possession of a car. By going on foot it is a lot more likely that I will see, experience, and learn a lot more along the way.

At my workplace they do random drug tests and I seem to get picked atleast once every few months. So for me, using illegal drugs is not really an option.

beavis · September 24, 2003, 11:09:38

"So which is the goal, the speed or reaching your destination?"

It is best to take the most efficient path to your goal, so you can accomplish more goals.

"It is also not illegal to be in possession of a car."
"At my workplace they do random drug tests and I seem to get picked atleast once every few months. So for me, using illegal drugs is not really an option."

Being bullied does not make the bullying right. I wouldn't argue that somebody shouldn't do something because the bully doesn't like it. I would tell them to avoid the bully.

"By going on foot it is a lot more likely that I will see, experience, and learn a lot more along the way."

Drugs let you see, experience, and learn a lot more than if you had used that time to be sober because after being sober most of our lives we get diminishing returns for our time.

warlockyoshi · September 25, 2003, 20:41:26

Drugs are bad don't do them. Okay now that my cover is established lets get down to the basics. Marajauna is proven to be a safe drug by the state of nevada, it is proven not to kill brain cells and it is very relaxing.[

] There are experiences that can only be had using drugs, as with any other theme. Marajuana is completly harmless by itself, but coupled with someone who cannot control there own body and mind. Besides sooner than later they will have to make it legal because they will have so many teenagers on probation or in juve. If you smoke weed every day and drink a gallon of water every day there is no way they can detect marajuana in your sytem.

WalkerInTheWoods · September 26, 2003, 05:25:00

I hear from several sources that marajauna has more tar in it that cigarettes. If true then marajauna is far from safe if you smoke it alot. They also say that marajauna stays in your system for around 30 days. If you get caught with it in your system here at work you get a 30 day unpaid vacation, if they don't fire you. It happen to a guy here who had not smoked any for several weeks, but still it showed up. Just telling you so if it should come up it is probably not a good idea to rely on drinking a lot of water.

quote:
There are experiences that can only be had using drugs

This is probably true. If one wishes to follow that path then go for it. There are many paths, we must all follow our own.

quote:
Besides sooner than later they will have to make it legal because they will have so many teenagers on probation or in juve

People have been saying this for decades. Maybe one day it will become legal, and personally I hope so. Not really so much so for the drug side of the plant, but because the plant has SO many uses that I find it foolish not to explore its potential, even the drug side. The main reason it is illegal is because of a smear campaign from the industrial side, mostly from the paper industry. A process that would vastly improve hemp paper was in development which would push it ahead of the tree paper. Needless to say the big tree paper industry did not like this and pushed the negative drug image to try to make it illegal. They owned the newspapers, and newpapers were the main source of information at that time, so it was pretty easy to do. Image the forests and ecosystems that could be saved by using hemp paper instead of tree paper. If you wish to push to make it legal, you may have better luck including all the things it can do for society and not just the drug side.

I find it kind of ironic that in the early days of the USA, hemp and tobacco were a big part of the economy. Who knows where we would be today without them.

Beavis, interesting way to look at it.

Avalon · September 28, 2003, 09:11:45

I smoked weed in my late teens. All it ever did was make me high. Never experienced anything different than being drunk. Afterward, I felt bad for having smoked it at all.

I don't know if it's as bad for you as tobacco. I smoke cigarette's and know it's bad for my body. I don't need research or statistics to tell me that. Hacking up a lung after rolling out of bed in the mornings certainly can't be a good thing.

As far as AP goes, I've never consciously had one, high or sober. The one spontaneous AP I have had, I had sober.

My experiences tell me that it's not necessary to smoke weed to AP. But like Beavis pointed out, his experience showed him drugs (illegal or not) allows him to get there quicker. I cannot really condone the behavior because it's illegal. But I'm certainly not going to preach about not doing it. That would make me a hypocrite.

beavis · September 28, 2003, 09:54:02

My experiences tell me that it's not necessary to smoke weed to AP. But like Beavis pointed out, his experience showed him drugs (illegal or not) allows him to get there quicker. I cannot really condone the behavior because it's illegal. But I'm certainly not going to preach about not doing it. That would make me a hypocrite.

I'm not going to list what substances were used, but for any drug one should maintain a balance between OBE with and OBE without that results in the most OBEs if one is using it for the purpose of OBEs. The balance will usually be somewhere in the middle.

Avalon maybe you should try the legal drug, salvia (smokable kind), if you want to see if drugs can help.

Avalon · September 28, 2003, 10:42:59

Beavis- I saw your entry about salvia on another post . Sounds interesting. I'll think about it.

Thanks.

LA FORET MAUVE · September 29, 2003, 03:11:23

the problem with salvia is that it is one of the most unpredictable trip ! (wink)

phobe · October 01, 2003, 20:37:35

In addition to my more "genuine" spiritual practice, I have spent a fair bit of time studying marijuana from the inside out, so to speak. There seems to be a lot of physiological studies (to test how safe it is, i suppose) but few psychological studies involving cannabis. Most of those use more powerful hallucinogens like LSD.

From experience I can say the "drug" path and spiritual path are two very different things. To keep things short, I'll say I do not believe it is possible to achieve any long-term spiritual/consciousness-elevation from the drug path. That might be obvious, or maybe not [

] lol.

However, I have also found very intriguing connections between the marijuana experience and the kundalini experience, which is intersesting although inconclusive. I don't think the cannabis affects the user's true 'spirit' so much as creating a form of pseudo-enlightenment. Its focus is internal tho, introspective and psychological, as opposed to an external, phenomenological cessation-of-thought/knowledge of god. It provides knowledge of one's self which in itself is still valuable.

All in all, two different experiences.

- phobe

Nagual · October 02, 2003, 00:14:54

Personaly, I don't like to have to rely on external factors (machines, drugs, etc...) to achieve something... I want to be able to only rely on myself. A bit like cheating at school. I never did cheat at school. Of course, I did not do as good as the cheaters, but... I feel more free...

Adkha · October 30, 2003, 08:36:13

quote:
Originally posted by Nagual

Personaly, I don't like to have to rely on external factors (machines, drugs, etc...) to achieve something... I want to be able to only rely on myself. A bit like cheating at school. I never did cheat at school. Of course, I did not do as good as the cheaters, but... I feel more free...

what do you mean witt cheating? you ain't cheating when you take drugs to achieve something more easy....its just easier than without taken the drugs. And don't forget, drugs like marhuana, magic mushrooms, are pure nature, they are put on this planet for a reason! If it's cheating to rely on external factors....stop eating! stop drinking! stop going to the circus to entertain yourself! Rely on yourself...right? I don't know man

Let me hear from u!

carolineneedham · October 30, 2003, 08:48:51

As I've mentioned on other topics, I'm interested in taking certain 'drugs' - at some point. I also use a Nova Dreamer on occasion.

However, I still think it is tremendously important to be able to do these things 'naturally'.

Why? Simply put, I think much of this, astral projection, lucidity, etc, is preparation for when we leave this world. And if we intend to be conscious when we do so then I think we need to be able to maintain this level for ourselves. Admittedly, we may get a rush of DMT to help us on our way, but still, I think the more natural ability we have/can learn, the better.

TheSeeker · October 30, 2003, 09:11:20

I agree with LSD and shrooms, but I was a pothead for a long time and .. what a waste of life. I thought 'slower' most of the time I was plain dumb.. I can count the number of times I felt smarter and philisophical on one hand, and I've smoked well over 1000 times. But, that is just me.

But, I'm sure you've read my opinions on shrooms/LSD, good stuff, I'm going to grow some morning glory flowers now and try those seeds out with the method from www.erowid.org but I'm not sure if I can find the petroleum ether need to extract the harmful elements

.

JoWo · October 31, 2003, 14:17:03

You guys who think that you can take a chemical shortcut to Enlightenment better read Jane Roberts' The Nature of Personal Reality, specifically Chapter 10, The Nature of Spontaneous Illumination, and the Nature of Enforced Illumination. The Soul in Chemical Clothes. Jane Roberts channeled the book from an advanced entity who calls himself Seth.

Jo.

TheSeeker · October 31, 2003, 14:46:25

Ever shroomed JoWo? yeah it's not a permanent solution, but an awesome experience, whether its terrible or beautiful.

Besides that, reading is only hearing someone else's thoughts or knowledge, experience is the true teacher, you can't learn what it's like to trip from reading a book.

Logic · October 31, 2003, 18:02:41

who said anything about a chemical shortcut?

Ceriel N · November 07, 2003, 14:57:56

A friend of mine that I have known through most of school asked me one day about a year ago if I wasn't high all the time. - I grinned at him.

Spirituality and philosophy are to me two different genres, the second one I have almost completed and the first one something that I have recently embareked upon. Both are important. I could tell you how to be proficient in philosophy, but hen I'd have to account for 6, 7 years of thought for you. Philosophy, in the end, is logic.

---

The only purpose alcohol serves in this area is to test your self-control.

Arie · November 11, 2003, 10:26:03

I remember i smoked up with my boy ramone at the mall back in the day....this was like 6 years ago...anyways this was some crazy excrement...and i smoke much more than ramon...we did it all ghetto and excrement...like we put it in a cigarette and blazed it outside the mall....it was so hot...i knew the excrement was strong but i puffed and puffed and puffed...and so we went into the mall...and some crazy excrement started happening...my head started bouncing....it really felt like i was bouncing...i was like Ramone!....i'm bouncing man!

And then i think i began to get all paranoid and excrement...about cops and security guards and excrement...i mean i was so gone....see...when fear gets a hold of ya....it holds on tight. i think the key to peace of mind and to God...is to be sincere..to be honest...despite the consequences...true with yourself...other people...and with God...but to also embrace wisdom with your sincerity...there's a teaching in the bible and the UB...that says don't give your pearls of truth to swine so that they trample them on foot and turn to rend you"

thoughts?

The AlphaOmega · November 26, 2003, 17:44:57

I smoke weed on occasion, use to do it all the time. I know that it can change ones perception of what is really true. When you are stoned often little actions people do or things people say that are trivial are turned into something meaningful in the brain. It makes it true only in your head, not in reality. The reason that you have so many philosophical ideas so to speak is because, like mushrooms, it causes the brain neurons to fire randomly. Neurons are what allow our brain to process thought and ideas, and when they fire randomly it pulls ideas from your subconcious with no real order or justification. This isn't bad or harmful to you, but it does make one think some things are true that really aren't. Don't think that because you are stoned you are suddenly more open to logic and understanding of all things... it just the opposite. Being stoned is fine, getting high is fun, and to date haven't found anything harmful about it other then laziness from time to time. But to think that drugs will open you up to a more true reality isn't the case.

Logic · November 26, 2003, 18:31:10

You have to know yourself before you can know the world around you.

Be it may that they could all be just random subconciouss thoughts gettting through to you, but thats still the reality of your ecosystem. These things are happening in your body never the less, not necisarilly in that direct way, but its the body's way of communicating with the mind. Thats also how most dreams are supposed to work, where most of what you see is some visual message from your subconciouss.

But on the other hand, consider the alternative. What if its the exact opposite? What if its more than just neurons firing, and your acctually connecting with something, or phasing, projecting, etc.

You cant REALLY prove something metaphysical to someone who necisarilly does not believe in it, something like string theory or whatever. Its completly possible, but not acctually provable. How would you go about proving something to someone one who isnt high or dosent share your same beliefs?

The AlphaOmega · November 27, 2003, 14:13:55

Beliefs are not knowledge. True knowledge is truth, not what one believes. And since truth is all that exists, only it can be learned. Any other belief can be shaped. Belief comes from perception... knowledge comes from truth. However, simply because I know the truth doesn't mean it's my place to convince others of it. That right is reserved for a higher power. I can only give my input. But hey, what fun would this world be if people didn't have different ideas?

warlockyoshi · September 22, 2003, 22:11:03

How many of you have tried marajauna? How many of you have successfully travelled on the asral plane using marajauna? For those of you who haven't I recomend that you do. I had a lot of philosophical experiences this summer and I got so wrapped up in them that I had no time for astral pulse. Plus I was working but know I am back so all is well. Weed momentarily alters the chemicals of your brain and opens you to more philosphical methods of thinking. I think that used in the propper fashion weed can be a great tool.

News:

philosophy and drugs

beavis

beavis

beavis