me and a mate had a big discussion over the statement
"every action we take is driven by arrogance"
just wondering what you guys think.
no, not really
Quote from: healixe on October 24, 2009, 16:01:53
"every action we take is driven by arrogance"
I suppose it depends on who and what the action is. I don't think most of us are self conscious enough to do things as deliberately as to have an attitude about it.
yeh but it comes down to ambition, if not pride what drives us to be better than others.
I don't think so. Sometimes people do things to help other people, regardless of they are big/small.
EX: See an elderly person so you hold open a door for them. It's a nice thing and unless you have a real motive for it it's just because it's the nice thing to do.
Pride? To me, it's a path for self - love. I see so many people wasting time with relationships(romantic ones), chasing after that elusive physical reaction of chemicals release. That. I could never understand. I have an immeasurable love for art, Literature and the female body(and for myself) but, to love someone like that(or even a bit). Nope, never made any sense to me.
Can't do it either. I am far too in deep with this maddening feeling, dearly in a limbo that cannot be conquered by anyone; this love that lives for myself and the Arts; The natural love felt by me for me freed me from the attachments most human beings create to fill the void that seems to exist inside of them.
When you depend on something, and that thing fails you, you end up scared. When one finds all he needs withing himself, there is no way he can be unhappy; he cannot suffer, he cannot feel anything but true greatness. The people Who Go Their Own Way; let it be Pick - Up Artists, video gamers, celibates, a Novelist, a Soldier, a Sculptor - whatever -; the kind of people capable of filling their void with their own interactions with the self.
That. IS beauty. Perfection in it's exaltation of the self.
People who immerse themselves in the waters of caring, tenderness, affection, and even passion for the self, for the individual that we are, We CAN be; they are not damaged as so many women have tried to tell me because I only want them for one thing :roll:.
It's not that I am damaged.
It's that I am complete and in perfection union with my path to happiness: Myself.
I am that road that cannot be unlighted by anyone but me. A marble road that I make shine with every step of the way, dancing, parading: nothing can really take me down. The ceiling.. oh, I swear to you that I'll rip it apart. To dance with shoes of importance - every single mile on them has a name and a pride, exchange it for 25 years and you'll have a heart burning with a song. A song that is never sad; not about what I have, but about what I am. What I am for me and for me alone and how that being on my own, cuts me loose from Sunday's Church(metaphor for obligations to Society) which tells me I have to get loose! I hurried it back, put it lace in black by taking so far the ideals of self - love.
Pride is knowing I don't need the typical landmarks of adulthood to be satisfied with the self. No. To be excited with the self. indeed. With great confusion I observe the rest of males. Their decisiveness in getting married(or in serious relationships) and enduring divorces, nagging wives(or dealing with the same woman on a frequent basis), children, supporting those children, paying for their college, paying alimony - for life - losing their houses and I just shake my head. Who am I to condemn when all I care is about the self?
Yet, it's a book needed for my education and for my liberation. When I was in a relationship, despite it being good by anyone's standards, I was never happy because I had to think of someone else. I would have to make sure the other person was happy because it's in my nature to care with all of the Heaven's intent and bliss for the person I love. Yes, I shifted a bit of that love onto a woman to experience what other males seem to experience(love for a woman) - at great effort - and I deducted that the pleasure, happiness etc, I receive from being with a woman and indulging my curiosity had as a result, a small revenue of pleasure and satisfaction. When she mentioned marriage and children. I knew that was my cue. To shift back my attention.
As soon as I shifted my attention - from her to myself - the eyelashes of poetry and the gushes of sweetness revolved themselves around me. I am like my own sun. Feeding myself with an everlasting tear drop of understanding, acceptance and love.
What I want. What I really want is to achieve my own slot at the arts. I want to become one of the world's greatest novelist. For that to happen, I need to let go of everything that sets itself on my path. Strangely, I have done so, more so, I feel the more Human for I have found my own path to be there for me.
Logic dictates that one can fill that gap, the gap Humans seem to have, with love for self. And complement a little this and that with casual sex :wink:. Freedom entails many, many facets. Facets you can embrace only if you understand and are capable enough to not get entangled with feelings for humans. Trust me. If you dominate these rules, great pleasure and fun comes along. Be The Lord Byron you can be. Be the Picasso you can be. Be the Casanova. But never be the guy who works a lifetime to support his wife and children. Don't care if people say Society will fail if the person doesn't sacrifice. Who cares?
I am the future and the past. You are the future and the past. All that matters is you. The rest, is just white noise in the tellie of social conditioning.
Don't humans look for independence? Financial Independence, educational Independence? Well, the next step of true independence is the detachment from 'love' and children. Because we are here to evolve - as many say - I must focus all of my energies, emotions and effort, on me. On the self. By directing all of everything inwards, I evolve. Think, you want to become a world famous Painter. If you are talented enough, sure. With just a bit of effort(not really but for the sake of the conversation lets agree with this), you can get that slot - glory -; an average painter will have to work a lot to become a world famous painter and that means he won't have time for relationships/marriage/children.
Inadvertently, his decision to become a painter saves him from the pit of endless gloom that many, many, married males/living together/having relationships fall in/suffer from, after the divorce etc.
He solves two problems: the inevitability of the Physical and he accelerates his own evolution to godhood.
As a consequence of this mindset, he achieves the kind of Immortality he desires. I read all the time, on this forum and other forums of the same likeness, that God loves me, that the other side is endless energies of love. Curiously, when I read or hear that I don't get any warm feelings. If God loves me, that is fine, I guess. But I only care for what I need. I don't need God's love because I love myself. Every time I hear my voice: I blush. Every time I see myself in the Mirror: my heart beats with such an intensity.
When I look at my hands: I quake. An earthquake of pleasure.
Human beings celebrate Christmas: I celebrate my birthday because that was the day the most important being in the Universe - to myself - was born. This guy. I alone have the power to change the stars. Stars that are inside of me, celestial spheres of blots of ink that I am capable of writing to MYSELF.
The Love For the Self.
Pride for most people is a defect in one's personality.
To me.....
Oh Apollo, who's arrows cross the morning sky.
To me, Pride is the child of God that I am.
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars - Oscar Wilde."
Your friend is right - regarding my case -; every act I do is motivated by the arrogance that whatever the outcome(for example: I write a short story and I don't like it), I am still striking to be the best to myself and that's what matters for myself
:-)
Firstly you write to much Leannain and every other paragraph i expected to be the end of the post but the end was 10 paragraphs later. Am joking i enjoyed reading it. Am glad your happy with yourself because thats all your ever gonna be and am only ever gonna be so we gotta learn to love our selfs for who we are.
Its too late to write a full reply to your post because its 2am here and i just finished work.
but... I can understand what you are saying about the sex thing. How people crave the feeling of ectasy as you climax. But i dont think its just the feeling its more about arrogance i think i think its about knowing that this women/man wants you to take part in sex with them
I could talk about it forever but then i ll be going off topic so i ll tell you the rest another time
as for do we do everything in arrgoance or not well i think we do.
For example One of the users in this thread said something about holding a door for an elderly woman and thinks that it is not in arrogance
I think it is because we only ever do something if it benefits us. Mabye by holding the door you get a good feeling or you feel a good person which is arrogant actions because your doing it for your self
ok say i was wrong about those feelings and someone really did wanna just help the old woman . Well have you ever saw some one walk across the road or in a direction that puts them out of there way of there intended travel just to help her.
i havent
Personally i think everything we do is in arrgoance even our own self development or spiritual or physical development its all done to make us a better person or to look better physically or just to be the best
take care
I can see the truth in that statement. But it's kind of unavoidable.. isn't it?
To assume we are ever doing the "right" thing at any given moment, is probably pretty arrogant, from one perspective, yes, because we don't really know what in the hell we are all doing here.
But even to sit still in contemplation, may very well be arrogance. What about killing ourselves? Hmmm. That might be arrogant too, but it's harder to imagine how, lol.
Anyway... good food for thought I guess. Just one perspective one could take amongst an infinite amount of them.
Quote from: Fourthdimension on October 24, 2009, 20:49:49
Firstly you write to much Leannain and every other paragraph i expected to be the end of the post but the end was 10 paragraphs later. Am joking i enjoyed reading it. Am glad your happy with yourself because thats all your ever gonna be and am only ever gonna be so we gotta learn to love our selfs for who we are.
Its too late to write a full reply to your post because its 2am here and i just finished work.
but... I can understand what you are saying about the sex thing. How people crave the feeling of ectasy as you climax. But i dont think its just the feeling its more about arrogance i think i think its about knowing that this women/man wants you to take part in sex with them
I could talk about it forever but then i ll be going off topic so i ll tell you the rest another time
as for do we do everything in arrgoance or not well i think we do.
For example One of the users in this thread said something about holding a door for an elderly woman and thinks that it is not in arrogance
I think it is because we only ever do something if it benefits us. Mabye by holding the door you get a good feeling or you feel a good person which is arrogant actions because your doing it for your self
ok say i was wrong about those feelings and someone really did wanna just help the old woman . Well have you ever saw some one walk across the road or in a direction that puts them out of there way of there intended travel just to help her.
i havent
Personally i think everything we do is in arrgoance even our own self development or spiritual or physical development its all done to make us a better person or to look better physically or just to be the best
take care
Ahaha, quite right. If you only felt my discomfort as I can never finish a poem. I'm always wanting to add something more :-P.
Yeah. Like I see it. Most humans fall prey to pleasure. Sexual release, in all it's capacities usually traps the person. There are studies that do 'teach' that the human body was designed to bond with another person after sex. That implicates a submission to another person to achieve that pleasure that only the chemical releases of the brain during the sexual act grants.
If the person learns to master the addictive secondary effects he becomes free. The person can get all the sex - or whatever other thing that gives the person pleasure - and still be free.
They say that Scorpios are the most extreme and intense of the signs(not denying what I am) but I think that most humans fall into extremes. We have the monks, denying every ounce of pleasure and we have the Pick - Up artists(casanova wannabes). Both are addicted to their form of pleasure. The monk is addicted to his love for God and to his lifestyle of 'purity'.
The Pick - up artist is addicted to women and to sex. Both candidates can never be free because they dedicate all of themselves to something other than themselves. They become dependent of the object of their love like an infant needs his mother. Only by cutting loose, by spitting in the eye of attachment to the possessions etc, that we love the most - or that we love at all - can the person finally walk the path within extremes.
Then, he can love whatever, he can love whoever, he can do whatever and reach whichever because he became godlike. Nothing can hurt him, because nothing matters to him: he has himself.
Moderating... That, to me, becomes possible by first loving the self entirely. Cover yourself with the loving feelings and emotions that a person would normally feel for another human being or possessions and carve it all onto your self. Become a narcissist. Only, don't hurt other people :roll:.
My love for something cannot harm me if the loss of it doesn't taint me. Love but don't give it importance. Save the energy you put into creating something frail(like a relationship) and use that to make yourself feel good, elevated and loose.
People in relationships have in the core of their minds the fear of losing the other person, that person that provides the warm butterflies and makes your head dizzy. The person who loves herself, is never fearful. The person can never suffer a loss. That is more important that society and it's need. That vanquishes Nature and sets you above it, not under Her command.
"I think it is because we only ever do something if it benefits us. Mabye by holding the door you get a good feeling or you feel a good person which is arrogant actions because your doing it for your self"
Ah! I was about to say the same thing. I believe that the Gurus, the Ghandis etc do what they do because they feel good when they do it. Don't they feel loved when they love someone? They would hate someone if they sent hate vibrations to any person thus, if one creates the feeling of love in another person, one feels love in it's self. So, being the cynic that I am, I believe that they do what they do, to get the self- validation and the maintenance of their self - esteem by helping other people; loving other people.
There's a woman who lives in my street. I've known her for many years. I grew up with her kids. Well, not to be moral but she treats her husband very badly and has cheated on him. He still loves her and treats her well: why?
Because, to me: by loving her, he feels good about himself. Like he fulfilled his duty.
His wife, goes to Church. Not to help or to even encourage other people to let some positive force enter their lives but because going to the church makes her feel superior to the other women around and it happens that she feels good about it.
So.. the church has become the tool she uses to achieve the good feelings. Without the Church, she would feel bad for what she did to the husband.
The Human Species is fascinating. Despite being a clearly intelligent species, it still relies on emotions to go around.
Uncontrolled emotions. I do derive great emotional pleasure from what I treasure but I control it. I don't see many others doing it or we wouldn't have so many guys complaining when they meddle with "Bad girls" and the girls, meddle with the "bad boys".
Humans will do what feels good for them. If treating someone good makes the initiator feel good, she/he will do it.
That is kinda scary. Because if a person thinks hitting someone on the head with a bat is a good thing... :|
Pride and arrogance are not necessarily the same thing. Often, arrogance is an attitude someone adopts as a cover for insecurity of some sort.
I do believe that for most people, most (or all) of the things they do are ultimately motivated by self-interest, that is, they "get something" from whatever it is, whether it's being kind and charitable or committing genocide, and everything in between. There is always a payoff for the individual ego. True selflessness is, in my current opinion and experience, not a factor for almost anyone.
lol didnt think it would take off like this,
btw i was the one who made the statement and now i intend to win
Quote from: no_leaf_clover on October 24, 2009, 21:12:42
I can see the truth in that statement. But it's kind of unavoidable.. isn't it?
To assume we are ever doing the "right" thing at any given moment, is probably pretty arrogant, from one perspective, yes, because we don't really know what in the hell we are all doing here.
But even to sit still in contemplation, may very well be arrogance. What about killing ourselves? Hmmm. That might be arrogant too, but it's harder to imagine how, lol.
Anyway... good food for thought I guess. Just one perspective one could take amongst an infinite amount of them.
killing yourself would be the most arrogant action of all because its not directed at other people its directed at yourself so your killing yourself to spite yourself
Quote from: healixe on October 25, 2009, 06:30:28
and now i intend to win
Is there a prize? What do you win?
Sometimes, men do something for the pleasure of winning. Does climbing Mount. Everest bring something palpable to the guy who does it? What did the first climber earn?
Everlasting glory! Maybe, to this guy, doing what he wants bring him closer to that 'win' that most men aspire.
Ah. Ego gratification. Got it. ;)
Quote from: healixe on October 24, 2009, 18:34:46
yeh but it comes down to ambition, if not pride what drives us to be better than others.
But the original statement read 'every action we take'. Not every action, only the action that benefits us in one way or another. The idea of being 'better than others' is not always accurate, because when we do want to be better, it's to be better than how we previously were. Pride isn't always about how we are with or about others, but ourselves.
god ctf its always you.
i was just useing an example
Quote from: healixe on October 28, 2009, 06:58:52
god ctf its always you.
Thank you, I'll take it as a compliment, even if it was not meant that way.
Quotei was just useing an example
It sounded like a categorical statement. And, you said 'I wondered what you guys think'.
I guess I need to stop believing these things.