Poll
Question:
Without religion would we be closer to world peace?
Option 1: Yes
Option 2: No
Option 3: Who Cares
Don't expect comments from me here. This is a survey I'm conducting and letting people debate on. I am tallying the results January 14th and within a week from then hopefully I will post the results in this thread as well as other places scattered across the internet.
Without religion would we be closer to world peace?
Answer the question and feel free to debate!
Interesting. I wanted to click yes, but that wouldn't entirely be true. Religion has brought a lot order and a lot chaos. In reality, it's ideology, not necessarily religion. Religion is a result of ideology.
As long as people have different opinions and they take harmful action upon such ideas, then no, even without religion there wouldn't be any peace.
Religion often times is used as an excuse or a means to an end - Just as any organization is used i.e. government
Until human beings come to a point in which control and power are no longer central ways of living, peace won't be attainable. There will always be someone fighting for an idea because they feel that idea is better than all the others. Or, they wan't something out of it.
Even though I don't like organized religion for myself, I think in the right mindset and style it can be a very productive and healthy way to live for some as long as no one is harmed.
Ultimately, the answer would be no. Even without religion, world peace would not be attainable.
It's hard to answer, because if religion didn't exist someone would probably create it. Like it's a part of human nature. Even without religion people tend to be superstitious. We also argue on social and political levels that have nothing to do with religion.
So no... it would take a lot more than getting rid of religion for world peace. Stupidity would still run rampant.
In reality, it's ideology, not necessarily religion.
Stupidity would still run rampant.
I concur.
Hi,
Religion does set good standards to follow however those who misinterpret its meanings do so to the loss of its sanctity.
I'd hate to see a massive dictatorship in its place as there are factions that welcome this.
Originally science and religion were hand in hand but the split seems to have made them almost extreme.
My vote after many years of life would be to stay neutral at this time but leaning towards its existence is good.
This is alittle hard to answer. Yes religion kills spirituality and destroys peace. But look at the ones who are not part of a religion. They think they are gods and can rule everyone else. So the question is invalid. Humans should know what is good and what is not.
Religion can be a good idea until some wacko comes and says he talks to God on the phone and he knows best and "come on, everybody, let's follow this guy cause he knows stuff that we don't and we accept it as fact without evidence" and then everybody commits suicide in the name of "God" and here we are, 7 billion of us minus some poor losers. So that's good!
But yes, I think religion caused way too much wars and grief and sadness in the world. As George Carlin said "Do you believe in my God? No...*stabs him* My God has a bigger d**k than your God!".
A world without religion sounds pretty interesting to me.
The heart of any religion is based on peace, peace of mind, compassion, harmony, enlightenment and betterment of the human condition etc.
But we tend to acknowledge and notice the fanatical side and the aspects of religion that cause problems and divisions .
We are less able to measure the peace harmony, healing and positive effect it has on the sanity of the collective human consciousness.
I believe despite the problems it can cause, the positive effects should out way the downsides, so I would say NO.
Mind you, many people seem to be emerging into a new consciousness and awakening spiritually to some degree without any particular religion...and along as there is religion there will be division. But I still say NO in the greater scheme of things.
The Bible is a book of contradictions. Probe further and you will see that similar stories to those in the bible have been used throughout history predating Jesus by different Governments, rulers to unite and control people, to strengthen and expand their political power eg. Roman Emperor Constantine convened the First Council of Nicaea, using the new established Christian doctrines expanded the Roman Empire - present day Western Powers, Vatican and political systems.
Read my post on: Religion & Astrotheology
http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4090#msg4090 (http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4090#msg4090)
Our culture has been largely dictated by religion based on astrotheology, where the masses believe in 'dogma' (unquestionable belief systems)
which moulds their perceptions, attitudes and ego.
It promotes separatism, ignorance, the 'little person' psyche who needs a 'saviour' and encourages (religious) war.
Christianity teaches the belief that as human, a born sinner, you need to worship a God who hates sin,
and the only way to redeem yourself is to emulate perfect 'Jesus' to qualify for heaven.
This mentality perpetuates these attitudes:
-> you got to do a lot of living, consuming before you die, or
-> feel guilty when you have too much resources & must give your wealth away,
normally to the ever expanding Church institutions while millions of people keep on suffering in poverty around the world.
-> Support war according to the religous leader's interpretation of the religious doctrines.
-> Suffering is normal
-> any form of esoteric knowledge and practice is 'evil'
-> Only Jesus, an external 'saviour' figure can save you. You must pray to a divine being for a good life.
-> It discourages people taking responsibility for themselves, and give their power away.
~
The VAST majority of war and violence has almost nothing to do with religion.
Mao Tse Tung was the world's biggest mass murderer (75 -100 million killed) and he was an ATHEIST.
Josef Stalin was at a distant second in the mass murder category at about 20 million killed ... and he was an ATHEIST.
Hitler barely makes a blip on the radar at 7 million murdered and he was an OCCULTIST (those who claim he was Christian are full of baloney).
Idi Amin (about 300,000 killed) and most African wars were tribal, ethnic oriented conflicts.
etc., etc.
Quote from: Rudolph on January 22, 2012, 14:09:40
Hitler barely makes a blip on the radar at 7 million murdered and he was an OCCULTIST (those who claim he was Christian are full of baloney).
etc., etc.
While the core foundation of Christianity teaches love, peace and forgiveness, the very fact that it is organised, it is run by men and their greed and lust for money and power is a reflection of the current human condition.
Religion has mass
cult -like following, where this 'dogma' is proclaimed as proof of 'God's' plan for humanity, enables religious leaders such as the Pope in the Vatican to impose his interpretation of these religious doctrines on the followers and in 'government' policies, and thus shapes our
culture.
The Christian bible is put together by the Roman Empire (Roman Emperor Constantine during the Council of Nicaea) and is full of contradictions.
While it teaches Christins to love God and all people with all their hearts, mind and soul,
theses doctrines also perpetuate guilt, fear, obedience to the Church (do not think for oneself) and separatism.
Eg. Anti-gay, must defend beliefs against other religions, only Christian God is the real God,
all people are a born sinners (we inherited Adam and Eve's original sin and their condition of toil and struggle) -> must pray to Jesus and God to save you from suffering,
to question the authenticity of the bible = weak faith in God mentality.
Our legal system, particularly 'Trust Laws' are based on the Vatican's (original Roman Empire) application of bible and creation of corporations.
http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4092#msg4092 (http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4092#msg4092)
:-) Please watch these '
Astromythology' videos in the linked post http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4090#msg4090 (http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4090#msg4090).
Definition of dogma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma)
The '
Cruscades' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades) and continuing conflict in 'Israel' exemplifies theses religious sponsored wars and serve the agendas of the powers that be (collectively termed 'Illuminati' 'Zionist bankers' 'Vatican' and their extensive corporations).
(http://www.in5d.com/images/pyramid-of-insanity.jpg)
The Vatican, Zionist - International bankers and their corporations are the secret controllers behind the western government system (adopted from the Roman Empire) manipulating people's perceptions to justify war and enforce this debt-slavery usury system.
This is
no longer a conspiracy theory because more people realise the connection between corporations, International bankers (Zionist), Federal Reserve, IMF and World Bank.
Watch video:
MONEY = DEBT = SLAVERYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BT9E1SRrXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BT9E1SRrXU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhX4FUj3fQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhX4FUj3fQ&feature=related)
Hitler, Zionist, Internal bankers, Federal Reserve and War connection:http://www.henrymakow.com/001936.html (http://www.henrymakow.com/001936.html)
http://finnics7.blogstream.com/ (http://finnics7.blogstream.com/)
~
Since my spontaneous AWAKEning OOBE
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/what_are_your_achievements_and_discoveries-t25297.0.html;msg298472#msg298472 (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/what_are_your_achievements_and_discoveries-t25297.0.html;msg298472#msg298472) no 9.
I have broken away from mass hypnosis from materialist 'Newtonian' (physical reality is made up of solid stuff)
'Darwinian' (life = competition and struggle to survive), and the Christian bible (doctrines) hold on my mind.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_MJ-xcIkKZqk/SfowhCAuM7I/AAAAAAAAAGg/5emTUi7S0SQ/s400/MindPrison1.jpg)
I no-longer view any form of '
esoteric' knowledge and practice as 'evil' (King Soloman in the bible put to death many mediums).
I no-longer define myself as a 'Christian'.
Through OOBE, phasing, remote viewing (deemed Occult practices by Christians) I embrace '
spiritualism' in its fullest expression.
I perceive
no division between people (which Religion in deed perpetuates) and have come to the profound and empowering realisation:
We indeed live in a divine universe, and that
our relationship with the notion of "GOD" is not "out there" but intrinsically "in here."
By the very act of thinking, perceiving and feeling we apply free will, and
our divine ability to create the experiential Universe of motion and things.This expansive realisation through self-discovery is 'spiritualism' on a personal level,
and releases the soul from the hidden prison (perpetuated by dogma) in our minds.dreamingod
I am the reflection of you, you are the reflection of me,
and together we all create universal memories. *** My journey down the rabbit hole only to find myself http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2565.msg4108#msg4108 (http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2565.msg4108#msg4108)
~
-edited to correct linked post url & added picture of 'prisons of mind - and group think'
Quote from: Rudolph on January 22, 2012, 14:09:40
Hitler barely makes a blip on the radar at 7 million murdered and he was an OCCULTIST (those who claim he was Christian are full of baloney).
Hitler stated:
Quote"We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else—in any case something which has nothing to do with us"
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views
Quote from: dreamingod on January 22, 2012, 04:30:53
The Bible is a book of contradictions. Probe further and you will see that similar stories to those in the bible have been used throughout history predating Jesus by different Governments, rulers to unite and control people, to strengthen and expand their political power eg. Roman Emperor Constantine convened the First Council of Nicaea, using the new established Christian doctrines expanded the Roman Empire - present day Western Powers, Vatican and political systems.
I agree, Jesus wasn't a christian but like many other god realised enlightened beings who went through a spiritual transformation... whose teachings then became the foundation of a religion...the teachings were almost certainly miss understood and barstardised or lost in translation, both innocently and on purpose for the use of power.
It is said that a certain Roman ruler altered the chapters on reincarnation to gain control over her subjects.
The ironic thing is while there is still a wealth of spiritual teaching to be found in the bible and other systems, we need to attain a certain level of enlightenment our selves before understanding them...so we might consider such scriptures as sign post for direction and possibly a measures of how far we have come once they make sense.
Watch this video:
Summarises "Zionism" and the terror on humanity.
Used by the 'Zionist' International bankers, Vatican and their cohorts (another name 'Illuminati') as excuse for continuing war
and the 'global manipulators' of the petrol-fiat monetary debt-slave usury system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfvAz4JvkH8&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfvAz4JvkH8&feature=player_embedded)
Read post: Vatican Lies Illuminated
http://vatican-evil-illuminated.blogspot.com/ (http://vatican-evil-illuminated.blogspot.com/)
If you don't realise by now after reading these linked articles and watching these linked revealing videos,
the Zionist, Vatican- Pope, Jesuits are all occultist.
Just follow all the symbology in our media, movies, music videos, on government buildings,
corporate logos, religious places of worship.
These symbology can be traced to 'astromythology' which Religious organisations are proclaiming to be
doctrines inspired by the holy spirit, therefore from God, the Logos.
- Some of the core teachings are, but most are applied by sick evil men who run world governements!
~Set yourself free by being informed and question all information.
The OP makes no comment on what he's asking about. Is he presuming we'll comment on organised religion or on religious thinking? For me, religion is as simple as some primate finding a rationale to assure loved ones that the sun will come up the next morning as it rides its eternal chariot into the earth and back around to the skies again.
Religion has, in essence, ever been a source of spiritual nurturing or comfort and we would be in a worse place without it. Even amongst spiritualists and seekers into alternate realities there comes a point for each of us where we cross over from certain, personal knowledge to conjecture and acceptance of the statements of others. I tend to think that somewhere around those points we drift over into religion.
Quote from: Rudolph on January 22, 2012, 14:09:40
The VAST majority of war and violence has almost nothing to do with religion.
Mao Tse Tung was the world's biggest mass murderer (75 -100 million killed) and he was an ATHEIST.
Josef Stalin was at a distant second in the mass murder category at about 20 million killed ... and he was an ATHEIST.
Hitler barely makes a blip on the radar at 7 million murdered and he was an OCCULTIST (those who claim he was Christian are full of baloney).
Idi Amin (about 300,000 killed) and most African wars were tribal, ethnic oriented conflicts.
etc., etc.
Napoleon was atheist also. Or at the very least was not religious
Quote from: Fresco on January 23, 2012, 09:50:50
Napoleon was atheist also. Or at the very least was not religious
Religion does not necessarily = spiritualism.
It is organised, governed by men pushing their own interests and agendas.
It preaches a set of established doctrines as being absolute truth.
Governments, together with religious leaders use their own interpretation to set policies, law and social control infrastructure.
Atheism does not necessarily = no spiritulism
It may be anti State-Religion controlled.
What is spiritualism?In my own opinion, this is a personal 'self discovery' process of understanding one's connection with creation/divinity.
Spiritulism transcends any one religion and does not seek approval from man-made religious organisations.
It is an internal process of liberating the soul and finding peace.
History is written by the winners.
The Vatican won Napoleon lost.
http://cominganarchy.com/2007/04/03/napoleon-vs-the-vatican/ (http://cominganarchy.com/2007/04/03/napoleon-vs-the-vatican/)
Napolean was an enlightened man and appears to be spiritualist.
Napolean was against the Vatican and the Papal States.
So yes, he was anti-Papal Sates, anti-religious because he understood religion was a means to control other men.
He was very ambitious and wanted to be his own ruler. He had the desires of men for power.
*** Have you noticed how these religious leaders and government officials don't readily apply what they so loudly preach.
eg. * Vatican (Catholic) sponsored war, The Cruscades
* Zionist (International bankers, Vatican) use U.S./U.N./E.U. > Political manipulated wars using Israel as justification.
* Pedophilia in the Churches
* Vatican wealth estimated in excess of £2,000,000,000 http://www.fireandhammer.com/vatican_wealth.htm (http://www.fireandhammer.com/vatican_wealth.htm)
while almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day (2008)
http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats (http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats)Napoleon's Quotes:A thorough reading and understanding of the Bible is the surest path to atheism.
All religions have been made by men.
Religion is what keeps the poor man from murdering the rich.
Imagination rules the world.
The best cure for the body is a quiet mind.
http://thinkexist.com/quotes/napoleon_bonaparte/ (http://thinkexist.com/quotes/napoleon_bonaparte/)
"eg. * Vatican (Catholic) sponsored war, The Cruscades
* Zionist (International bankers, Vatican) use U.S./U.N./E.U. > Political manipulated wars using Israel as justification.
* Pedophilia in the Churches
* Vatican wealth estimated in excess of £2,000,000,000 http://www.fireandhammer.com/vatican_wealth.htm"
============
* This is pure anti-Catholic bigotry and wall to wall DECEPTION.
* The Vatican "wealth" estimated at "£2,000,000,000" is based on priceless frescos and artwork on the walls of the ancient buildings that they hold and NOT on actual bank or investment holdings.
* In actual money the Vatican is more like lower middle class in World Finance Circles.
* The Crusades were a plain and simple act of European self defense against scimitar wielding marauding invaders cutting off the heads of those who would not bow to their prophet. And... the Vatican did not even exist at that time...
* Guess which world clergy children are SAFEST with? ... thats right... Catholic Priests. Don't believe the LIARS!
http://www.amazon.com/Pedophiles-Priests-Anatomy-Contemporary-Crisis/dp/0195145976/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327373232&sr=1-1
* Do NOT listen to the hate filled anti-Catholic bigots;
http://www.amazon.com/New-Anti-Catholicism-Last-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195176049/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327373318&sr=1-2
Quote from: Rudolph on January 23, 2012, 21:51:26
* Do NOT listen to the hate filled anti-Catholic bigots;
http://www.amazon.com/New-Anti-Catholicism-Last-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195176049/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327373318&sr=1-2
The tone of you post is 'hateful' and prejudiced.
To share experiences, point out how religion, not just Christianity is based on 'Astromythology',
the Vatican & Zionist connection between the Trust Laws, debt-slavery system, Federal Reserve Bank,
and the present Political social-economical structure
is not hate driven.
It is love driven.
A plea for people to wake up and take responsibility for themselves and not let
government (mind control agents)
to 'lead us into temptation; but deliver us from evil'
-as well as dogma associated with Astrotheology and Newtonian-Darwinian belief systems.
-------
from Latinised Greek:
gubernatio means "management, government"
mente means "mind"
Government = Mind Control
-------
How can I hate, when some of my family still call themselves 'Catholic' and 'Christian'
My spiritual awakening shattered most of what I held to be true as a (former)
Christian and Materialist (belief in Newtonian Physics).
I believe and apply the core values of Christianity: love, tolerance and forgiveness, and discard the fear, guilt-sin & hell doctrine.
These loving principles when applied genuinely will create 'Heaven on Earth',
but for the men who control governments and the petrol-fiat monetary system.
The common religious principles of love, tolerance, and forgiveness leads to 'spiritulism' and is a service to humanity.
The Religious hierarchical political 'corporate' model, together with its resounding message of
fear, punishment, guilt, sin and hell perpetuates 'a servant mentality'
who must obey his master eg. The Pope, Government, Elitist and not question the authenticity of these religious doctrines.
I think the time is right for humanity as 'one consciousness' to release their 'saviour' figure and
save themselves from social manipulations and mass-hypnosis by Religious and Political Governments machinations,
and truly liberate their souls from limitation, and 'Astrotheology'.
Please watch these videos: Astromythology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lsOJMyM6ZI&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lsOJMyM6ZI&feature=player_embedded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXkZwXfLcfY&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXkZwXfLcfY&feature=player_embedded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnlUAgqPwI&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnlUAgqPwI&feature=player_embedded)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ9H3aLWxE&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ9H3aLWxE&feature=player_embedded)
The existence of perverted religious organisations has little bearing on this discussion.
I'll quote this from an online dictionary...
"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."
Who here can truly claim to be irreligious? As I stated earlier, due to our personal researches into the extended reality, most of us here have knowledge, rather than belief, on many aspects which many people have barely even inklings of. However, for each of us, there comes a point where we rely on conjecture and hearsay to fill in our gaps. This is the essence of religion, when we take conjecture and a lack of certain knowledge as a framework for further supposition.
It's a step in the right direction. Unfortunately cultural predators such as religious groups have twisted society so much that people show religious behavior even without worshiping anyone. The same people who run churches - telling people they're made by a deranged entity from dirt - are also running universities and calling people monkeys.
About world peace - if you have any dignity, you feel uneasy when you hear the phrase 'world peace' because it simply means 'world compromise' - a state where everyone lives around people they don't know (or like) and agrees not to kill each other. But compromise doesn't work when people are intruding on each other's lives, so essentially it's a waiting game to see who goes on a rampage first.
I don't usually say this often, but Zareste is correct.
There will never be world peace as long as religion exists. There will never be world peace as long as people are "different" in some way.
It's not about bringing the world together. It's about bringing yourself together. You only have the power to change yourself... but through that, is the way to change the world.
Wow! Karas. You quoted only the opening sentence and then left off the rest that shows how
Hitler was indeed an Occultist!The part you quoted was reflecting his opposition to other occult groups outside the Nazi movement. Only *his* movement was sanctioned and there were plenty of occult doings going on.
The next sentence from your quote;
QuoteOther scholars believe the young Hitler was strongly influenced, particularly in his racial views, by an abundance of occult works on the mystical superiority of the Germans, like the occult and anti-Semitic magazine Ostara, and give credence to the claim of its publisher Lanz von Liebenfels that Hitler visited him in 1909 and praised his work.[94] Indeed, evidence indicates Hitler was a regular reader of Ostara.[95]
and
QuoteDonovan was a senior member of the U.S. prosecution team and had compiled large amounts of evidence that Nazis persecuted Christian Churches.[
Quote from: dreamingod on January 24, 2012, 01:02:27
The tone of you post is 'hateful' and prejudiced.
No its not. It was a simple refutation of plain flat out errors on your part. Simple line by line facts that make the fiction you are posting easy to see for the nonsense that it is, is neither hateful nor prejudiced -- just historical and contemporary facts.
The content of your post is pure fiction, and easily qualifies as bigotry and hate speech. To simply throw the accusation back with no valid source to back it up is silly and childish.
QuoteIt is love driven.
It is pure fiction. (a pack of common, garden variety bigotry and hatespeech).
The nonsense about the Bible in your posts is non-stop falsehood. The Council of Nicea in 325 AD accepted the long extant Muratorian Canon in full, and added other books on top for good measure (like the Hebrew Epistles and Revelation). It was the Protestant Lutherans who threw out books they didn't like. You need to get your facts straight.
QuoteA plea for people to wake up and take responsibility for themselves ...
That is good advice. But I did not find any practical advice on how to do that in your links. Just streams of misinformation.
QuoteHow can I hate, when some of my family still call themselves 'Catholic' and 'Christian'
Easy. I see it all the time. This is not an unusual phenomenon.
QuoteThese loving principles when applied genuinely will create 'Heaven on Earth',
There is not much love to be found in that stream of misinformation.
QuoteI think the time is right for humanity as 'one consciousness' to release their 'saviour' figure and
save themselves from social manipulations and mass-hypnosis by Religious and Political Governments machinations,
and truly liberate their souls from limitation, and 'Astrotheology'.
That astrotheology stuff may be one thing (dubious validity) but I agree that waking up and breaking free from the mass hypnosis is a good idea. That pyramid shows a bunch of sheep as "debt slaves" and falsely states "you are here".
I am debt free. I have been for a long time. I live in a beautiful lodge in the mountains with a breathtaking view and have two four wheel drive vehicles to navigate the terrain. I have not worked in the system or drawn a paycheck for nearly ten years. I pay the bills in mysterious ways that my family and friends are in awe over.
Obsessing over some government conspiracy laced with bigotry and hate speech is not a good way to get started on breaking free from the system.
QuoteThere will never be world peace as long as religion exists
There will always be religion as long as there are people.
The problem isn't religion. The problem is people.
Quote
It's not about bringing the world together. It's about bringing yourself together. You only have the power to change yourself... but through that, is the way to change the world.
This is true. The world will change when individuals change. And real change requires an incredible amount of hard work. So I am not holding my breath.
Quote from: Ravyn on January 01, 2012, 17:33:25
Don't expect comments from me here. This is a survey I'm conducting and letting people debate on. I am tallying the results January 14th and within a week from then hopefully I will post the results in this thread as well as other places scattered across the internet.
Without religion would we be closer to world peace?
Answer the question and feel free to debate!
The survey and topic is about:
Without religion would we be closer to world peace?So this question is in the context of the effects of
religion on the
masses,
world population.
It is undeniable that most if not all the members of this forum, through a process of self discovery and
astral explorations have defined themselves beyond the limiting defintions of man's realtionship to 'God'
taught by the main stream religious doctrines.
However
most people who belong to these religious organisations (register membership)
have
not broken out of mass-hypnosis because they absolutely acccept the position of
these doctrines such as the Bible and Torah as
literal fact,
not allegory http://www.thefreedictionary.com/allegory (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/allegory).
I discuss the bible because I, like most Christians who regularly attended Sunday mass at Church, were taught
that the Bible authors were inspired by the Holy Spirity.
The 2 common and self-limiting attitudes that most Christians hold are:
Every person is born a sinner (through disobedience to 'God', inherited Adam and Eve's original sin and human condition of toil and struggle),
Occult practises are sinful. Spiritualist and Mediums are the Devil's agents (recurring theme thorughout bible).
Fear of punishment from God, and guilt being a sinner are some of the main reasons
why many Christians do
not investigate our natural spiritual rights and abilities such as OOBE, phasing.
Such fear and guilt complexes can manifest experiences for the believer.
One reported seeing demons http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2867.0 (http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2867.0)
If people knew, these
perceived 'evil' entities are products of their psyche and can removed by a process of self discovery.
Religion, in most people's mind refer to
World Religions http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm), not necessarily spiritulism.
When people are asked what religous persuasion do they follow, they normally identify with these mainstream groups,
Christianity is bar far the dominant religion (see lined map), and thus inform public policy, law, and politics.
Christian core values of forgiveness, tolerance and love facilitates a more social cohesive community,
but the 'self-appointed' authority of the establishment, The Vatican promotes 'separatism' in a world context,
and enforces a debt-slavery system. Why? It is run by men who have vast interests in the banking system. Power and profits.
To be fair the Vatican http://www.toughissues.org/handoutsnew/Wealthy%20Church.htm (http://www.toughissues.org/handoutsnew/Wealthy%20Church.htm) and the Khazars (Zionist Bankers) http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm (http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm) are the World Bankers and the power brokers behind global agendas.
This is
not conspiracy.
The Federal Reserve Central Banks is a private organisation owned by http://theunjustmedia.com/Banking%20&%20Federal%20Reserve/The%20Federal%20Reserve%20is%20Privately%20owned.htm (http://theunjustmedia.com/Banking%20&%20Federal%20Reserve/The%20Federal%20Reserve%20is%20Privately%20owned.htm)
Rothschild Bank of London
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Lehman Brothers of New York
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
The Government: Election and Political process.Do people
actually have a choice, and vote their political representatives in,
so their views could be
actually represented and applied in public policy?
The 2 party election system is adopted from the Roman Political system. Minor parties do not really have much success of getting in.
There is the illusion that people have a choice, but the tendency for politicians to 'do whatever they want' despite pre-election promises
are far too frequent and blatant for people to miss.
* Did the American people vote for continued war (more like invasions)?
-> Ron Paul growing number of supporters is an example.
* Do the American soldiers feel justified in their occupation of these unfortunate countries?
Here is an example of their views:
AMAZING SPEECH BY WAR VETERAN :-D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akm3nYN8aG8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akm3nYN8aG8)
-Break free from mass-hypnosis perpetuated by Governments and
the real people & their corporations who control it.-Think for yourself!
-----------------
Know that you alone can only help yourself through self discovery, and
a willingness to scrutinise your belief systems and redefine yourself accordingly.
You will experience what you believe to be true, because we live in a Mental World of pure consciousness.-----------------
We each are much blessed, not born sinners, and much loved.
It is the degree that we explore ourselves and our connection with Source,
that we grow to understand how divine and free we are.
It is the state of mind.World peace can be achieved when we each take responsibility and think for ourselves.
We save ourselves by realising reality is
what we believe it to be.
Instead of being convinced that Governments have the moral right and represent the views of the people,
we should remove these artificial mental boundaries between people, countries, religious groups, status
by perceiving all people as one people, one family as we are all connected in spirit.
Quote from: dreamingod on January 24, 2012, 19:54:23
The survey and topic is about:
Without religion would we be closer to world peace?
So this question is in the context of the effects of religion on the masses, world population.
Actually, for those who understand how these things really work, the question is in the context of the
effects of the masses on religion.
If you could snap your fingers and have any and all traces of all religion (memory, everything...) dissolved into thin air in an instant the masses would immediately set to work rebuilding an almost indistinguishable replica of the old belief systems.
The problem isn't religion. The problem is people.
QuoteChristianity is bar far the dominant religion (see lined map), and thus inform public policy, law, and politics.
And Christian nations are obviously the most civilized countries in the world, it is is a good thing they do.
QuoteThe Federal Reserve Central Banks is a private organisation owned by (insert misleading propaganda here)
This is blatant half-truth. Why don't you give the rest of the story on how the Board is chosen and representation is divvied up? You don't because it is not so alarmist when the entire story is divulged.
QuoteDid the American people vote for continued war (more like invasions)?
Yes. When they voted for Bush for a second term. Those invasions were completely justified. Maybe not so well thought out but completely justified.
on and on...
so much bullpucky out there....
Truth is subjective.
All sorts of information is presented.
It is up to the individual to consider the available information, investigate further, and make up their own minds.
Ultimately, each person will experience what s/he wants to believe or is convinced to believe,
because we each experience a subjective reality.
Since reality is 'illusory' (no real solidiity) in nature,
'peace' is ultimately attained by 'peace of mind' and 'knowingness.'
This forum and others like this one, facillitates 'peace of mind' and 'knowingness.'
Thanks to all here, who are helping people realise more of their potential as 'spiritual beings'
through OOBE, phasing, astral projection, lucid dreaming, remote viewing and more.
:-D
~
Quote from: Rudolph on January 24, 2012, 12:46:47
There will always be religion as long as there are people.
The problem isn't religion. The problem is people.
This is true. The world will change when individuals change. And real change requires an incredible amount of hard work. So I am not holding my breath.
What your saying is both true and false.
The goverment controls 2 groups:
religious groups and the non-religious groups. Now have you not relized that the pope and others go to the goverment meetings to sort out things within the churches?
Both the goverment and religious leaders are trapping the minds of all and your right "
QuoteThere will always be religion as long as there are people.
The problem isn't religion. The problem is people.
"
And it's people who try and interpret the text to suit the there agenda. Look at the pope and how he demonise spirituilty and not only that but we get bunch of christains telling other Christains how to interpret the bible and demonise each other... Religion plays a huge part in this and your just turning away from the truth. No christain is like Jesus infact no one follows his yogi ways >_>
Now let's look at one of the false christ called Paul has to say.
Romans 13
"
All of you must be willing to obey completely those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God.2 So when you
oppose the authorities, you are opposing those whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged.
3 If you do what is right, you won't need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don't want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right. The one in authority will praise you.
4
He serves God and will do you good. But if you do wrong, watch out! The ruler doesn't carry a sword for no reason at all. He serves God. And God is carrying out his anger through him. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong.5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.
6 That's also why you pay taxes.
The authorities serve God. Ruling takes up all their time."No religion = no power over minds and the goverment will lose control over there subjects.
And I totally agree with you, only we can change but for that change we need to get ride of rubbish that traps us into duality.
The Great Dictator by Charlie Chaplin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYAdS8tmmI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
You're still discussing religious organisations, past and present, rather than the innate need for religion of a thinking being.
Religion comes into existence as soon as you attempt to formulate an explanation for why anything is the way it is. We can't really exist without it.
The powers that be (have been, will be) will always use methods to control and subjugate that they deem effective and efficient. Perversion of religion has been one of the most effective in modern Western history.
Define 'world peace'. A place where everyone is loving and caring for one another all the time? How can that happen in a reality where the needs of our bodies are our main concern? A beast will kill to serve its needs, and so will a lawless or impious man. One of the things that distinguishes men from beasts is our responsibility to be ethical, due to the understanding that there may be a greater purpose to our earthly existence, that maybe we're being observed, and our actions now will determine our destiny in this life and in the next one.
So, to answer your question, no, you can remove everything from the mortal world and you won't get peace, because this is a deficient type of existence, where senseless people struggle in vain against death by destroying one another.
Quote from: Xanth on January 24, 2012, 11:06:13
I don't usually say this often, but Zareste is correct.
There will never be world peace as long as religion exists. There will never be world peace as long as people are "different" in some way.
It's not about bringing the world together. It's about bringing yourself together. You only have the power to change yourself... but through that, is the way to change the world.
If the entire world practiced positive Law of Attraction I think we could eventually have world peace
It's not a 100% human error. Observe history. If you really believe in a metaphysical reality. Then you will realize some of it is human nature, and some of it isn't. "Deitys" or the entitys we perceive them to be put strange thoughts into peoples heads to begin with.
Quote from: Fresco on January 25, 2012, 09:58:40
If the entire world practiced positive Law of Attraction I think we could eventually have world peace
That would only work if everyone had the same intentions, but everyone would be trying to attract different things and where one person comes out on top, another falls. This world is about balance, not everyone having what they want. You have the bad so you can have the good. You have to take both in life. If everything in your life was perfect, you would create problems that didn't exist (like many people do).
Things just aren't so cut and dry. Perhaps everything is happening exactly the way it was supposed to and we're just complaining because it doesn't fit our ideal world. It would be nice to have a bigger picture to look at.
The problem most worthy of being solved is that people wish for problem-free lives.
As for the rest, remember that how someone treats you is their karma; how you respond is your karma. A semblance of harmony on Earth might be attained if more people simply gave a moment's thought to the greater good before acting or reacting.
Quote from: Karas on January 25, 2012, 07:07:19
Look at the pope and how he demonise spirituilty
I look at the Pope and I do not see him demonizing spirituality. Please back that bigotry and hate-speech up with something real. (But you won't... because it is not true)
QuoteThe goverment controls 2 groups:
religious groups and the non-religious groups. Now have you not relized that the pope and others go to the goverment meetings to sort out things within the churches?
This is pure drivel (and bigotry). The government has a job to do and the Pope has a job to do and sometimes their jobs require cooperation. Groups working together is a natural inclination among humans since ancient times. Sometimes things work out well and sometimes not so well.
Big fish eat the little fish. The entire scheme of life on planet Earth is built on conflict and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.
Individuals who sit around pointing the finger of blame at outside organizations as the source of the world's problems are delusional. This is the first step in the Co-dependent blame game that enables and empowers these outside groups. This sort of 'victim mentality' is self destructive and those who wallow in this victim consciousness have ceded their responsibility to The World and walk away from their birthright to a Higher State of Consciousness.
The truly enlightened accept personal responsibility for their own lives and circumstances and get busy doing the HARD WORK of learning and growing in Consciousness and Awareness.
The stagnant and lazy sit around obsessing over Evil Corporations, Government, bad parents, old boyfriends, artificial sweeteners... on and on...
Quote from: Rudolph on January 25, 2012, 14:19:01
I look at the Pope and I do not see him demonizing spirituality. Please back that bigotry and hate-speech up with something real. (But you won't... because it is not true)
This is pure drivel (and bigotry). The government has a job to do and the Pope has a job to do and sometimes their jobs require cooperation. Groups working together is a natural inclination among humans since ancient times. Sometimes things work out well and sometimes not so well.
Big fish eat the little fish. The entire scheme of life on planet Earth is built on conflict and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.
Individuals who sit around pointing the finger of blame at outside organizations as the source of the world's problems are delusional. This is the first step in the Co-dependent blame game that enables and empowers these outside groups. This sort of 'victim mentality' is self destructive and those who wallow in this victim consciousness have ceded their responsibility to The World and walk away from their birthright to a Higher State of Consciousness.
The truly enlightened accept personal responsibility for their own lives and circumstances and get busy doing the HARD WORK of learning and growing in Consciousness and Awareness.
The stagnant and lazy sit around obsessing over Evil Corporations, Government, bad parents, old boyfriends, artificial sweeteners... on and on...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/film/story/2010/01/12/avatar-vatican.html
What really annoys me is the fact this old fart thinks he has the right to tell anyone anything... Don't get personal... He's is only human who thinks he has divine powers to tell people how to live and what to demonise
8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10
Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11The greatest among you will be your servant.
12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!
You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!
You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 25, 2012, 11:33:44
That would only work if everyone had the same intentions, but everyone would be trying to attract different things and where one person comes out on top, another falls. This world is about balance, not everyone having what they want. You have the bad so you can have the good. You have to take both in life. If everything in your life was perfect, you would create problems that didn't exist (like many people do)
Sorry, but I completely disagree with all this
Quote from: Karas on January 25, 2012, 15:36:35
http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/film/story/2010/01/12/avatar-vatican.html
What really annoys me is the fact this old fart thinks he has the right to tell anyone anything... Don't get personal... He's is only human who thinks he has divine powers to tell people how to live and what to demonise
None of the quotes you gave support your earlier claim about "the Pope ... demonizing spirituality". It is not getting personal to ask someone to back up their false claims. It is not personal to identify a bigoted statement as being a bigoted statement.
Your bogus claim now stands as proof of your dishonest position on this.
Note also that your insulting and disrespectful words say more about you than the man you try to denigrate.
It is not that the Pope "thinks he has
the right to tell anyone anything" -- as leader of a very large and very ancient religious Tradition
it is his responsibility to inform the faithful on those Traditions to the best of his ability. Someone has to do it. Otherwise it would cease to be an Ancient Tradition. I think he knows he is only human... probably more so than the arrogant deceivers who go around spreading Lies and bigoted hate-speech about that ancient Faith. (If these things were said about ANY other world religion there would be an uproar of indignation here. This is really unbelievable).
I think that link Karas posted makes her point perfectly.
Rudy, I think you just love to complain... :)
Once again the topic of Religion causing disagreements. That is the simple reason I decide to stay clear of it. :-)
Agreed,
The stirring of a hornets nest is very unwise...
Quote from: Lionheart on January 25, 2012, 23:54:05
Once again the topic of Religion causing disagreements. That is the simple reason I decide to stay clear of it. :-)
Religion and politics brings out the worst in people
Until everyone has resolved their karma, which might never come to pass, the world will always have both silly people and greedy people in it to do silly and greedy things.
I accept that some might consider this to be a religious viewpoint. 8-)
Quote from: Fresco on January 25, 2012, 15:58:33
Sorry, but I completely disagree with all this
Cool, but what exactly about it do you not agree with? I'm not trying to antagonize or be negative, but no one can learn anything without ideas being expressed.
The stagnant and lazy sit around obsessing over Evil Corporations, Government, bad parents, old boyfriends, artificial sweeteners... on and on...
Rudolph; I'm not a fan of your angry rhetoric, but the above line is awesome. Show us more of that keen sense of humour. ...artificial sweeteners...nice. :lol:
I have to side with Rudolph on this one too.
The Pope is the spiritual leader of a large and established religious organization, not some self-appointed guru who took upon himself the task of telling people what to do- and as such it is his job and duty to make proclamations about spiritual and social matters. If he didn't, he would not be doing his job. No one forces anyone to follow his declarations, that's why we have freedom of religion, you don't even have to agree or like what he says.
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 25, 2012, 11:33:44
That would only work if everyone had the same intentions
This I agree on, but thats a given since I already acknowledge the fact the entire earth would have to practice positive Law of Attraction
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 25, 2012, 11:33:44
but everyone would be trying to attract different things and where one person comes out on top, another falls
Disagree with you there, in an ever expanding universe there are enough "things" to satisfy everyone, and all people should come out on top.
Keep in mind that not everyone cares about being a billionaire, some do and some dont. I personally would be happy with just 10 to 20 million $
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 25, 2012, 11:33:44
This world is about balance, not everyone having what they want. You have the bad so you can have the good. You have to take both in life
No, the good and the bad would both simultanously be raised to a much higher standard of living
Quote from: Stookie_ on January 25, 2012, 11:33:44
If everything in your life was perfect, you would create problems that didn't exist (like many people do)
Wrong, because when you practice positive LOA you simply cannot attract negative things in your life. Its impossible, because it breaks the fundamental rule of the "Law of Attraction".
The problem is the vast majority of the world today practices negative LOA by default. Thats why the world is in the mess its in right now
And just to get back on topic, would eliminating religion throughout the world reign in peace and stop wars?? The answer is 'no'. And here's why:
Can you name one war in 20th century that was fought over religion?? I cant even think of one, to be honest.
WW1 was fought over real estate (Europe)
WW2 was also fought over real estate, but more globally
Korean war was fought over geopolitics
Vietnam war was fought to stop the spread of communism. So it was over idealogy
Iraq wars 1 & 2 were fought over oil....oopss.....I mean weapons of mass destruction :lol:
Afghan war was fought to stop terrorism
So ditching religion will have very little effect on warfare. And even though I believe in God, I have very little sympathy for religion or going to church
Quote from: Fresco on January 29, 2012, 20:05:49
Iraq wars 1 & 2 were fought over oil....oopss.....I mean weapons of mass destruction :lol:
Afghan war was fought to stop terrorism...
This whole post is actually a fairly astute assessment of the situation.
But just fyi - Saddam had lots of WMDs - don't get sucked in by the mass media propaganda.
The main reasons to invade Iraq were threefold (As presented to the UN by the US Secretary of State)
* WMDs
* Resolution 1441 violations
* Open support for Terror
Any one reason alone would be sufficient justification for war but especially the last two. All THREE were valid.
Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
For those wishing to get half a clue may I suggest reading;
Saddam's General by Georges Hormuz Sada &
Saddam's Bomb Maker by Khidir Hamza
Yeah, as pertaining to the thread title, it doesnt really matter what the Iraq wars were fought over. My point was virtually no major 20th century wars were fought over religion
Quote from: Fresco on January 29, 2012, 22:03:40
Yeah, as pertaining to the thread title, it doesnt really matter what the Iraq wars were fought over. My point was virtually no major 20th century wars were fought over religion
Right.
Or the 19th century, or the 18th century, or the 17th century...
Most wars were simple power struggles and border disputes, colonial expansion, etc.
The only religious wars of any notable size were the Muslim wars of conquest and expansion that persisted for hundreds of years until the European powers got organized and staged a counter-attack, the Crusades -- that's when the violent Muslim expansion was halted dead in its tracks.
(There is a big giant lie that is often repeated how Muslim territory growth was peaceful cultural expansion - but this is just so much huge non-historical nonsense it is laughable that it even got any traction.)
Quote from: Rudolph on January 30, 2012, 11:01:55
Right.
Or the 19th century, or the 18th century, or the 17th century...
Yup, most religious wars were fought in middle-ages, and even then there werent that many of them. Most wars even back then were fought over land or natural resources (like water, food, gold, silver....etc).
Quote from: Rudolph on January 30, 2012, 11:01:55
The only religious wars of any notable size were the Muslim wars of conquest and expansion that persisted for hundreds of years until the European powers got organized and staged a counter-attack, the Crusades -- that's when the violent Muslim expansion was halted dead in its tracks.
(There is a big giant lie that is often repeated how Muslim territory growth was peaceful cultural expansion - but this is just so much huge non-historical nonsense it is laughable that it even got any traction.)
Agreed again. Muslims conquered most of Spain, even setting up mosques everywhere. France was starting to feel threatened and they decided the muslims had to be driven out. Thats what started the Crusades