I'm reading a book at the moment for my English class at aschool ("Triage" by Scott Anderson) and one of the characters in the book says "...evil is too easy; life is far more complex. I think you would agree that most are merely weak men caught up in difficult times."
I think this holds some sort of truth to it, even when taken out of context. I think there aren't really any evil people in the world, just those who have suffered psychologically and are trapped.
quote:
Originally posted by aissy
I read the article "Spirits, Angels, Origins & Relationships" by Robert Bruce and wanted to impart point that I think should have been mentioned in the text. I don't believe that 'evil' exists in itself. I see evil as a 'lack of good' just as dark is a lack of light. Evil is simply a label that can be interpreted in many ways...some say the devil is evil, but according to many religious scriptures, the devil(Lucifer) was once good and is now simply living in respite, cut off from the Creator's Grace, until his appointed term is complete. This conjecture is coming not from a religious bias(as it may apppear) but from a true belief in the goodness of our Creator, Exalted in Power, Wise.
Lots of Love and Light.........aissy[:)]
Actually Lucifer is the name of an old Babylonian King and it literally means "Bringer of Light". Why it was interpreted as the Devil's name I don't know. Some stupid mistake when translating the Bible from its original language to english(?) (king james version).
Anyway you are right, evil doesn't exist in itself. Only nature exists, because good&evil are only mere human assumptions.
If you have a baby and a Tiger approaches and kills it. It is not evil, it only acts accordingly to its own nature. If an adult kills a
another human we can say in some situations that he acts AGAINST his 'own' nature this can be considered by some as evil but actually he just acted along with his own belief system so it could be said that it was his own nature to act in that way.
Same things apply for negs. They can not be considered as 'evil', but just acting according to their own nature. So if we relate their nature to our we can say that this relationship is evil.
Everything depends of your point of view, but "evil" is a needed term for describing things that are not ethical and "good", evil are the things that are unmoral – "bad".
Cool, another good/evil pos/neg debate. :)
Personally I also think that good and evil are human conventions, at least as humans usually speak of them, because it is all relative - relative to humans, as we look at them.
That does not mean, however, that there is no basis to good/evil, just that it is relative. For example, if a seed sprouts and the tender shoot reaches upward then unfolds leaves which seek the sun, then the sun is 'good', and it seeking the sun is 'good', because it promotes the higher expression of the plant, which is a mature, healthy plant which can then go on to propogate more plants and contribute to the life and beauty of the earth. Growth and higher expression are good, and growth and higher expression which contributes to the growth and higher expression of others is a greater good. This is a naturalistic expression of 'good'.
Of course, we choose to call good only those things that contribute to our own growth and higher expression, even if that means destroying some plants - that is why it is relative, after all, some plants really are a nuisance or poisonous to humans.
As such, something which takes, obstructs or discourages growth or higher expression is 'bad' - again, this is relative, but if several mutually opposing species were able to work out their differences in mutually supportive growth and higher expression, this is universally good!
Opposed to the universal good is 'Evil'. However, like aissy says I agree that evil is a lack, as in my above example of the mutually opposed species. Obviously working together benefits all, but if they disregard that then one or more of them will perish, locked in eternal conflict. There is no way out except the removing of the other species, and even then there will always be other species so the conflict will be unending. Not understanding this is what perpetuates their aggression. Therefore I agree with aissy that 'evil' is a lack, a lack of understanding, a lack of awareness, a lack of compassion, and ultimately a lack of love.
And so it is when speaking of 'negs'. Simply to call a neg a neg is to assume polar positions, that you are 100% right and it is 100% wrong. This is only possible if we disregard the relative nature of what we think of as 'good', and that is only possible if we have no compassion.
This does not mean we must always give in to aggression or tolerate invasiveness or injury, it means we must speak our truth, but also be sensitive to other's truth.
As far as negs in the astral, Robert Bruce says (from http://www.astralpulse.com/guides/oobe/oobe_8.htm#5> ):
During an oobe, a projector is virtually invulnerable and can pass through solid matter, sit on ground zero during an atomic blast, or even to bask within the heart of a supernova unscathed. The only thing to fear while out of body is 'fear' itself. Nothing else can directly hurt a projector and nothing can get at their physical body and mind during a conscious projection. While it is fairly rare to come across anything nasty or negative during a projection, any troublesome entity a projector might stumble across cannot, therefore, directly harm them. They can, however, show themselves as a form designed to scare the daylights out of a projector, and this can cause psychologically damage. This can also result in a subconscious fear of OOBE. It can cause an instinctive, negative baulking type of reaction which can ruining every conscious exit. This can stop a projector from enjoying conscious OOBE for the remainder of their life, unless they can program themselves to overcome it. If this is already the case, I suggest a course of affirmations and self hypnosis be used to overcome it.
As to why a 'neg' does 'bad' things, well, while you may not be able to do much about it, a neg is probably just doing the same things you are doing, going about it's business and trying to survive, even if the way it goes about it is in ignorance (lack of compassion) for your position.
...some interesting points have been raised. With regards to Kiauma's view on the nature of good and evil, I wanted to elaborate another aspect that has not been directly acknowledged.
Now, considering Kiauma's view about the interpretation of good and evil..."Obviously working together benefits all, but if they disregard that then one or more of them will perish, locked in eternal conflict"...one can duly interpret 'good' as being in 'Unity, or in sync' with the universe, nature, or whatever one wants to call it. Hence, evil would therefore be interpreted as not conforming one's will to Unified Whole.
To expound on this topic from a different perspective, one could argue that if a person makes life choice that go against the concept of Unity, as in rebellion, one could be considered 'evil' to a certain extent. And as stated previously, evil is simply a label...so is the concept of good. I believe there are certain degrees of good and evil, but one must understand that there is no such thing as 'absolute evil' because that would go against Universal Laws of Nature...again, as stated previously, good and evil are relative terms. Love, on the other hand, is the only absolute quality of Nature, though it may not always appear to be so on the 'surface.' A lack of love, if heeded, seems to create a yearning to get closer to the concept of true unity, which in my view, is the only way of life. We may now argue that there is no such thing as good or evil or a lack of good or evil, but that everything in life is a lack of love trying to find its way back to pure, absolute Love.... "For example, if a seed sprouts and the tender shoot reaches upward then unfolds leaves which seek the sun, then the sun is 'good', and it seeking the sun is 'good', because it promotes the higher expression of the plant, which is a mature, healthy plant which can then go on to propogate more plants and contribute to the life and beauty of the earth. Growth and higher expression are good, and growth and higher expression which contributes to the growth and higher expression of others is a greater good. This is a naturalistic expression of 'good,'" as Kiauma so pleasantly puts it.
Sincerely............aissy
"...one can duly interpret 'good' as being in 'Unity, or in sync' with the universe, nature, or whatever one wants to call it. Hence, evil would therefore be interpreted as not conforming one's will to Unified Whole."
Good point! I think though, rather than trying to put it into terms of submission to 'the unified whole' I think what this reminds me of is implications of the difference between selfishness and selflessness.
I like this because I can then go back around and relate selfishness to a lack of compassion and to a lack of understanding how whatever we do affects all - or a lack, at any rate. [:)]
Yes of course, genocide isn't really evil, just some poor dictator suffering from hard psychological times. I'm sure Hitler didn't think that what he was doing was evil, but to hell with philosophy and it's 'get you nowhere rantings'. There is good and there is evil and you can't "reason" your way out of it. Killing millions of innocent people or killing one innocent person is evil. "Oh, well what makes a person innocent"? That's the way of the heaping pile known as philosophy. Go kill a baby, it's not evil, you're just hurting psychologically!
I sense that AlphaOmega might be sarcastic... [|)]
Also, couldn't the lack of "Good" be... "neutral"?
"There is good and there is evil and you can't "reason" your way out of it."
Hitler believed in polar good and evil too...
More the tragedy.
my oh my ---- perhaps part of this point could be brought to bear with the simple sentence of "Hitler performed according to His Nature". I Hate what he did. I believe it to be "an act" (taken altogether) of horrific magnitude. However, I'm also not naive enough to fall wholly into the "vegan idea" that eating meat, dairy by-broducts, or unfertilized eggs (might not a mother hen mourn her missed opportunities at mothering?! perhaps silly) is "evil" when one considers Roald Dahl's proposed invention of an instrument that record's the dying moans, groans, and screams of plants and vegetables and trees as they are uprooted for whatever purpose. But the vegan is only acting according to his nature. we are all hinting at (tongue in cheek) "aural shades of karmic-grey".
Sincerely...a true newbie[;)]
Of course what Hitler did was horrific, but I see this as no reason to adopt his attitudes. Quite the contrary, if we want it to never happen again.
Yes cristina8675309, we must all act with what we feel is the best information and under our best discernment. I eat meat too. [:)]
thank you for the reply...and i completely agree. i see no reason to adopt ANY attitude that furthers evil. however, i grow confused (but then again those who know me won't be surprised...) if there needs be a balance in all things, i.e., hot/cold, "good"/"evil" - all this from "perspective" that one would be able to tell the difference of one FROM the other - then there would HAVE to exist to some degree and at least once or twice (by all that's holy i hope we've learned enough not again, but perhaps not with saddam and even my home country guilty of atrocities upon poorer countries it values of less economic worth) and on such an horrific scale that it might gain awareness and appreciation for the opposite end of that spectrum--the love/acceptance/health/wealth(all aspects) of all mankind in all its forms.
i guess you can tell i'm a meat-vegetable-eating idealist...huh?! lol
namaste
HI All,
Personally I do not think evil exists of it's ownself. While we on Earth have to contend with duality as part of the human world make-up we are experiencing, I do not think that this duality is continuous into the highest realms.
I see that what people here call Negs are simply other beings who choose to use their portion of the one energy for darker intentions, that does not make them Evil. It only makes it a choice thing.
Good and Evil are value judgements we apply to things that exist or events that happen. None of those things or events can exist without the creative support of Source/god. So in that sense is god both evil and good ? Or is it simply the originator and supporter of all ?
Hitler was a man who followed his soul's path! As for the 10 million Jews he was supposed to be responsible for killing, they could not have been in that situation without the consent/support of 'god'. So this tells us an important fact.. prior to incarnation to this world both Hitler and the Jews who died from his reign MUST have had contracts to be and do what was done !!
In light of this understanding we can see that what was done there could not be called Evil by us, it was simply something that all parties agreed to bring about on the earth for us to fully realize the true nature of War in the hope that we would not allow ourselves to go there again. Unfortunately, all those Jews died in vain because we still War.
Evil is manifest as reality on earth simply by the choices we make in between incarnations to provide experiences for ourselves and others, therefore it cannot be called Evil. The same is true for what is called Negs, if they cause you to be scared then they are actually helping you to learn about yourself and see what issues need to be addressed in your current life.
In our current experience fields we seem to need the pressure of evil to make us grow and move forward in our spiritual life, so we must be creating this duality in order to succeed at these tasks.
Love Always.[:)]
The way I look at good vs evil, is its just another way in which our universe balances itsself: light - dark, order - chaos, development - entropy.
It seems that all of the "negative" things listed above - dark, chaos, entropy, have at one time or another, by human literary standards, been used to describe "evil". It seems we humans are the ones responsible for the definition of evil.
I agree with Tayesin that Good and Evil are judgements placed on something or someone based on human definitions. It's all relative. A shade of gray is dark compared to white, but light compared to black.
By the way....
Cristina, welcome to the forum, and did you steal that number from Jenny?[:)]
Regards,
James.
James and Tayesin: Good points, both... (thx for the welcome, James--and with all the "cristina's" in the world and the suggestions of numbers for alternate name choices, yes i stole it from jenny---at least it's one i can remember...lol).
thanks for the great "furtherance" of my understanding. and i agree with the "compact" idea, or the idea of "between carnations" forming a plan for what "we" need to learn or experience or work out for "some advancement".
but before i sound TOO "lazy" about atrocities, let me still say i think "atrocities" deplorable. but without experiencing mobility, could we experience paralysis? same line of what's already been said. thank you for all your welcomes and insightful replies.
and i also agree (forgive me for not remembering atm the contributor's name) that perhaps the more we focus on one thing, the more we bring that energy toward us...like watching scary movies; their own energy, etc.
long-winded, sincere, meat-eating, wisdom-seeking, jenny-theif,
cristina
There is no such thing as good and evil....it is just your belief system against mine.
BUT...there is such thing as love...I think there is no humanbeing that claims love is nog good...Love may be the only thing you can describe as good.
I belief hate is a fake emotion because it is an emotion with no purpose and it is created by a mind that is manipulated by his own belief system.
Not to repeat myself and Tayesin and James ad-nauseum, but yes I believe love is the animating force of the universe, and that 'evil' and it's associated emotions are from a lack of love.
The way I see evil is this: Evil is the overriding of impersonal love becuase of either experiences, circumstances, social teachings, or other things. I say impersonal because there is love in everyone on the personal level. The "base love" people have is basically a kind of impersonal love (impersonal definitely not meaning cold or anything, people think of being impersonal too negatively I noticed...) or a love of all things. It is my belief that if people were shown thier purest form, it would be love.
The way I am interpreting the above messages, a lot of people are saying that evil is a lack of love. This suggests to myself that evil is thus the base of existince, because it means you can take away all love, but I feel that this is not possible. I believe evil actually has some basis of love, but that it's twisted to "love of self" or "love of wrong." I am not saying the above views are wrong or anything, just a couple things to think about that I wanted to add.
In truth I think there are many different "truths" to this, just different interpretations/views of it. We as people have to interpret things our own way in order to understand.
quote:
'evil' and it's associated emotions are from a lack of love.
Once more, what about being 'neutral'...?
I can love, I can hate, and I can not care (neutral).
So, is being neutral evil?
Evil does exist...and if you are perceptive enough, you will know it when it is around you in some form, usually via a person.
How can any sane person say it does not exist and is just another psychological disorder? It is more than that. It is something a person gives themselves over to...usually by choice, but sometimes by happenstance. It is enticing and gives a false sense of power to some.
I will give you a personal example. I once dated someone for a short time. One evening, we were sitting in a restaurant lit only by candles on the tables. As I have trance medium tendencies, I started to go into a trance while gazing at the candle.
I felt a wave of black energy going from his hand through mine and up my shoulder. I immediately took my hand from his. There was and is no doubt in my mind that this person was "evil" personified. Needless to say, that was the last time I saw him.
In retrospect, I doubt that he even realized himself what he had opened the door to with all the drugs he had used during the 60's, but it was there.
On a broader scale, Hitler. Potentially, he could have saved the world or certainly Europe -- he had all the talents to be a leader. However, he opted for the path of evil rather than the path of good. Some say he was insane. Not so, he knew exactly what he was doing and had a gift for manipulation of crowds. He played on their fears and feelings of frustration and powerlessness until they would follow him in any way he wanted them to. The horrors of that war that were inflicted on millions is due to the choices he made and led others to make. He told his people this was all for their good, for their rights and for salvation and pride.
Sound familiar? As in Bin Laden and all the other terrorist leaders. They do exactly the same thing and they call it good.
I do beleive evil is usually a choice, on some level, that a person makes or agrees to even if in just deciding not to resist it.
Yes, we all have our little evil moments. I don't know anyone, including myself, that hasn't committed murder in our minds over and over again when someone has hurt us or vexed us or made our lives miserable in some way. This is normal, small potatoes in comparison to true evil.
One last example is Charles Manson who has openly said if he ever gets out of prison he will kill as many people as he can. He makes no excuses, just says he likes to kill people and he is entitled to kill all those he thinks of as less worthy of life than himself.
The man is not sick...he is evil.
Most of the time, tho, I think it is much more difficult to know or to ascertain the nature of evil.
Those that depict evil or "Satan" as monstrous and ugly are off base. Who wouldn't run from that? No, I think evil is usually very attractive, charming, seductive, enticing in some way or another - at least at first. It is only later, once a person if fully involved or committed to the evil within themselves that the ugliness of it is known. Then it is too late for those around that person who feel its effects or fall victim to their treachery.
Best advice: avoid it when you can and resist it any way you can.
It is real. It may not exist on other planes, but it certainly exists on this one. At some point in life, each of us encounters some of it. Only a fortunate few never see it or feel its effects in some way.
Peace...Jena
Lack of good and evil are the same thing.
Lack of good is not nothing.
For a guardian angel, let us entreat the Lord.
Are we talking ab out evil as a seperate and independent entity or as a laell we put on behaviours tat harm other and prevent them from experienceing and learning their life lessons?
I think the distinction is important. In this thread the term has been used in both meanings and that seems to account for most of the differencens between opinions.
Those who maintain evil doesn't exist seems to ue the term as a reference to the entity and those of the opposing camp for the behaviour.
Imho, separate entity evil doesn't exist. A behaviour that harms others does and can be called evil to distinguish it from a helpful behaviour usually called good.
2cents & L&L
jouni
I do also think that evil doesn't really exist. However, I would say that in the human world there aren't objective "good" and "evil" things at all. The evil and good things, the way you see them, depends only on yourself.
Maybe there is something good - God for example, but take into consideration that if God really exists he is everything (evil included, even though he doesn't use it).
So, something is good or evil, because you think it is, it always is up to you. If you believe it isn't true what I say, let's take a look on the best example: World Trade Center tragedy.
Many of us, perhaps even everyone of us, would say that this what happened in New York on 11th September 2001 wasn't good. I do think so as well. But, there are people who think otherwise. For them it wasn't "evil", it was good - at last the Big Powerful America has been punished for their greed and swaggering... It was for such people a day of celebrity. I mean for instance the Palestinian people.
So, there aren't good and evil things in the world. Everything is up to you. What you think is good, may be evil for me. It just is so. Everyone of us is different and has different way of thinking as well.
Please, write me what you think about my statement.
Evil as a label attached to certain kinds of destructive behaviours certainly does exist. Nobody can deny it. But it doesn't necessitate the existence of a big bad wolf lurking on some plane or another who for some reason has nothing better to do than pester us humans.
But evil is a relative label. Like it's been pointed out one man's evil is another man's good.
Let's not make the mistake of climbing on a pole claiming ours is the absolute good and theirs the absolute evil.
One should endeavour to stop bad things, to best of our knowledge, from happening and being perpetrated on others. Just choose wisely as others are may at some point do the same to you.
2cents & L&L
jouni
And what would you say If I told you that real Satan doesn't really exist?
evil is...an internal weakness to me why be evil if you can join the light and be forever aided in what ever you may choose to do and also have great mental strength[:)][:D][8D]
So hop into the consciousness of the 'evil' and look at everything from that viewpoint. Do you consider yourself as evil then?
I think not.
Well, my answer to being told God doesn't exist would be somethign like this:
We are god both as individuals and as the collective whole right along with everything else in existence. There is no separate being or consciousness that functions as god. We, you, I, Beavis, the chair are it. The good and the bad comes from us, not from a separate God or a separate Devil. They are in a very real sense symbols for communicating ideas.
2cents & L&L
jouni
I see what you're getting at and I agree, well close enough anyway [:)]
You're saying that God and Devil are separate as the common foci of the good and evil in our consensual perceptual reality. That's what I read anyway and that's the interpretation I can agree with.
My point of view is perhaps a bit at odds with the entire notion of separate entities having experiened that all is one.
Your reality may vary.
2cents & L&L
jouni
quote:
Originally posted by runlola
So hop into the consciousness of the 'evil' and look at everything from that viewpoint. Do you consider yourself as evil then?
I think not.
the consciousness of Satan delights in evil. The whole purpose of evil is to put out the light.
Delights in evil from what viewpoint?
Without the light it would not try to put it out.
And why isn't the light the bastard trying to put out the darkness?
Satanists are people who have some very different ways of thinking.
Their existence does not prove an entity often called Satan exists. It does in some cases prove that behaviour called evil exists.
But not always, there are satanists and then there are Satanists, if you get what I'm aiming at. They are not all animal sacrificing, child eating, loonies any more than every Christian is a saintly, compassionate and always wonderful person.
Horrible people do exist. And the tendency of peple is to attriute their behaviour and actions to some other cause in order to shed their responsibility of their actions. Satan is a convenient image for that.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Satan does not exist.
Surely, not as the contradicion of the real powerful god.
Satan may exist as some astral being, but doesn't have as much power as God has. Because there is nothing bigger than God.
We have created Satan as an astral being, I am sure such sn astral being does exist. It is so, because what people believe in and what they think becomes the reality in the astral world. This is conntected with the so-called thoughtforms.
quote:
We have created Satan as an astral being,
We have also created God in a similar manner. In my experience, that is.
A personification of what we perceive from our various perpectives to be good.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
satanism is about recognizing yourself as the ultimate power- therefore service to yourself is the highest good that one can do. selfishness is divine.
most of the time it's not about worshiping satan
quote:
Originally posted by jilola
quote:
We have created Satan as an astral being,
We have also created God in a similar manner. In my experience, that is.
A personification of what we perceive from our various perpectives to be good.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
I agree that there is a 'God' being created in a similar manner but
that is not the same thing as the Being itself.
As for the Black Magicians I'm a bit speechless. Can't really come up
with an counter-argument [:D]
Well, we have created many Gods as astral beings. I am sure there are Krishna God, Catholic God, Allah, Jahwe and others exisitng as astral beings in the astral weorld. They've been created as the so-called thoughtforms, because everything what people believe in, becomes reality in the astral world.
However, besides of those God astral beings there is the true God as well. The true God that isn't any astral being, but he's the Everything. He is the only one Lord of the Universe. This fact is of course up to faith...
The distinction between good and evil comes from the perspective each of us have when we view ourselves as separate from Oneness.
An action is an action as such. Its only when we view it against "the rest" as seen from a point of view we have as incarnate individuals not connected with existence.
2cents & L&L
Jouni
Okay... I was steering away from this thread because I thought it was going to be like the Abortion thread but someone convinced me that it was worth a read... Thanks Jouni!
Here's my take...
I have had many experiences in my life where I could interpret the actions of others towards me as evil. Actually, now that I'm an adult (sometimes [^]) I agree with what was being stated earlier in this thread... ACtually, I feel all acts of evil could be interpreted as benefiting the whole... sort of the crisis or chaos before the shift in global consciousness (refering to any mass scale atrocities you can think of, Hitler included)
The chaos or crisis always escalates before the shift... As when Christ was crusified.
Also, I believe that we are all infinite and we only perceive that there is evil... in others, in ourselves. (Oh by the way, this makes me remember, earlier on in this thread, someone mentioned that the word evil was necessary in order to state that something was unethical and immoral... why not just say it's unethical and immoral according to your way of seeing it and not label it as evil?) When we perceive evil in others it is because they are showing us our own perceived weaknesses (our belief in mortality for example)... Hence, where we perceive our limitations, they are showing us where we have room to grow.
When I was a kid, this very good looking, richest kid in the county was on my school bus. I had a massive crush on this kid and every day, he would scream at me in the most disturbing voice he could possibly muster up... "FAAAaaaAATT" To a bystander, this would seem evil... this bully picking on this slightly chubby girl and humiliating her every day (it worked wonders on my self esteem I'll tell ya [B)])
As an adult, I realized that I already perceived myself as unworthy of being loved because of the circumstances surrounding my parent's divorce, I needed love and attention and got none from either of my parents during that time... I internalized these feelings and determined that I was unworthy of being loved.
Then this kid came along who I had a crush on and delivered to me the EXACT lesson I needed to show me what I had been thinking (that I was unworthy of being loved because I was fat.) And I'll tell you... He was SOOOO GOOD at delivering this message that I dont' think there's another person alive who could have been as much of an A**HOLE as he was then.
In a vaccuum, this would seem to anyone that this guy was pure sh*t but I feel differently. I see his actions as the exact lessons I needed in order to heal that part of my mind and recognize that the exact opposite is true. I am completely worthy of love, in fact, I have a great capacity to give and receive love. It was only my own distorted perception that made me think otherwise... and it was the "evil" act of this 7th grade rich kid who gave me the gift of clarity.
So, it is my opinion that evil as we see it is actually the circumstance we need to make positive change and motivates us to see things a bit differently.
Love & Life,
Kerri
quote:
Originally posted by Interek
let's take a look on the best example: World Trade Center tragedy.
Many of us, perhaps even everyone of us, would say that this what happened in New York on 11th September 2001 wasn't good. I do think so as well. But, there are people who think otherwise. For them it wasn't "evil", it was good - at last the Big Powerful America has been punished for their greed and swaggering... It was for such people a day of celebrity. I mean for instance the Palestinian people.
I actually believe this to be true... not for the same reason you quote
by the way, just so you know where I emotionally stand on this one, I am from NY and can not bring myself to Ground Zero yet... NYC is my favorite place on the planet and I have friends who worked and died in the WTC tragedy... My last visit to NYC, about a year ago, I just wanted to sit in St. Pat's Cathedral and say goodbye to all those beings who gave their lives in this tragedy. I believe it was good because it was a BIG GIGANTIC Wake up call. A call to action if you will for beings such as I believe most people on this board to get off our arse and do what we're supposed to do (only you know what that is) to live our light and to be an expression of light in the hour of this dark, sorrowful night.
In the same sense, I will be eternally grateful for that guy who called me FAT because he gave me one of the greatest gifts anyone could ever give me... The experience to understand the flaw in my thinking... (I know this may not make sense but that's the way I feel) I actually even wrote him a letter thanking him for the experience... Because I know that in order for someone to inflict that much pain upon another, they must hate themselves even more.
We can only give out what we have and if all we have is hate, fear and pain, that is what we will give. We also increase whatever we have by sharing it with others so again... if we only have hate, pain and fear to dole out, that is what we increase in ourselves (our ego's.) So by this person bringing me that great degree of pain and by these other "leaders" bringing pain upon the world at large, they must be harboring tremendous pain and fear, otherwise, why would they feel the need to harm another. They are suffering from the same degree of pain (if not more) than they inflict...
So the evil they express is the fear of their own weakness and their own attempt to disguise and dissociate themselves from that perceived weakness... IMHO.
I hope this makes sense.
Love,
Kerri
i think that anton lavey went overboard, but he rephrased a philosophical argument that has been around for a real long time. people only do what's in their best interest, or perceived best interest.
my own view on this subject varies since the topic itself is quite relative.
As the subject seems to be ground into the same terms, what we all seem to be saying is that evil/ negative/ chaos and good/ positive/ harmony or whatever you want to call them, are not to be offered to each other as what we define them as, but more so for our own personal understanding, such as lighthouses example of a kid calling someone fat. To everyone witnessing such an action it is taken differently.
The "victim" seemingly either takes on a separate role by allowing the comment to hurt and snowballing into what would be thought of as negative thinking, wishing hurt upon the person who hurt them, or they take the comment made and come to realize although intentionally meant as an insult, it was a correct assumption and then leads to the person taking action to correct what they might see as a flaw lending a positive outlook to a "bad" situation.
The person making the comment may be saying such a thing for any number of reasons depending on the situation such as the victim hurting that person in some way prior to the insult, thus it is a defense mechanism. The person might be using what basic instinct tells them to survive in an environment as needing to establish dominance. Or the person may even get some gratification from hurting another, thusly gratifying themselves (physchological disorder or just selfish and ego absorbed).
The people surrounding as well can attain any number of perceptions from the scenario depending.
Really it seems as though everyone realizes that some will see the subject matter differently because we are independant of each other.
Levay, if you ever read the satanic bible, also is a prime example in his thinking. He doesnt consider himself evil, he considers himself more human because he attempts to gain better understanding of the physical realm; desire, pain, pleasure, and since "God" in religious aspects defines our soul, our spirit, our astral and ethereal, the devil/ lucifer/ satan what have you, defines the physical aspects of our nature.
In his sense, one must know the flesh, before one can understand the spirit.
Satan and God.
Of course this is another obvious attempt to define what is positive and negative in those terms, however some believe that God does not represent either spectrum but both. Since God created everything and Satan as well, this must lead one to believe that there must be another opposite to Satans "Evil" since God is the whole and not the "Good."
So who or what would that be?
Jesus...?
the earthly realm itself?
Another of Gods angels?
This is another representation of one side, so if anyone has a different take on it, by all means.
well, bickering aside, i think this thread holds a lot of strong truths and opinions on the nature and good and evil. Here's my take, and it is not so different from some others:
Good and Evil are mainly interpretations. Bottom line (in my understanding) There IS Positive and Negative. The Negs, as others have pointed out, excel at scaring, intimidating, and in worse case scenarios, possessing and shadowing and influencing humans. Again, is this evil, or is this Normal? The negs fulfill a very real and valuable role in the evolution of mankind, and it is only through the valiant explorations of men like Robert Bruce and others, their careful research and willingness to share what they have learned, that others are able to piece together the meaning of our common existence. These are the same lessons that Wise Men have known for thousands and thousands of years, but time and society tends to forget. It will come around full circle again, i'm not worried.
Anyway, my take is that Evil exists (or Negativity) exists as a direct counterpart to Good (Positivity). Are their Beings that only want to hurt/maim/kill humans? Yes. From a human perspective that is bad, but look at it from another angle: God put those negative things in existense to strenghten us. Pretend like the Negs are weights: you have to lift them to get stronger. Be careful though, because you can hurt yourself.
I read the article "Spirits, Angels, Origins & Relationships" by Robert Bruce and wanted to impart a point that I think should have been mentioned in the text. I don't believe that 'evil' exists in itself. I see evil as a 'lack of good' just as dark is a lack of light. Evil is simply a label that can be interpreted in many ways...some say the devil is evil, but according to many religious scriptures, the devil(Lucifer) was once good and is now simply living in respite, cut off from the Creator's Grace, until his appointed term is complete. This conjecture is coming not from a religious bias(as it may apppear) but from a true belief in the goodness of our Creator, Exalted in Power, Wise.
Lots of Love and Light.........aissy[:)]