A scary realisation...

[Phoenix-09]

I'm new to all of this "magic stuff", I was just recently browsing lots of websites about Wicca. So I decided to pop in "Wicca for Beginners" into Google and clicked the first site I found - hah, wiccaforbeginners.com.

This site was all good, it helped me learn a lot about Wicca and I knew a lot already thanks to www.religioustolerance.org.

BUT one thing scared me. Whilst reading this, I was on an IRC room talking about the pentagram with people. One person said that in the Bible the pentagram symbolises a goat's head - ie, Satan. Another source tells me that Satan is not mentioned in the Bible until well into the New Testament, suggesting that the concept of Satan only came about when witches came about, as if the church deliberately made a move to make pagans enemies of the church, which at the time was about as powerful as being enemy of the state. Yet another source informs me that a pentagram is only drawn with a goat's head in it when it is inverted, when it represents matter over mind, and self-indulgence over selflessness.

What scared me was when I was reading over the example ritual magick page, I got really frightened by the fact that when it referred to the God (the pairing of the God and Goddess I'm talking about here) it said "horned one." HORNED ONE. Like a GOAT, or perhaps, a demon!?

I'm not very religious, but I'm very scared. I don't want to pass judgement on anyone, I know that people that practice magick are usually very well mannered people and very nice....but I can't help but feel that the Christians might have been right. That there might be some sort of deception going on here, as if something is playing nice when it's actually being nasty. Just the simple mentioning of "horned one" in reverence to the God (which I thought, up to this point, was just the masculine half of the Divine, joined in unison with the Goddess, the feminine to create harmony).

Can someone please shed some light on this with some good, decent discussion about this? I'm really scared now, because I ordered a pentagram pendant a few days ago, and I really don't want to be wearing a symbol drenched in negative energy...especially seeing as it's coupled with fire agate, the stone of passion.

Thanks to anybody who can help me understand this.

~Phoenix

[bloodsong]

What you need to remember first and foremost is that Wicca is a modern offshoot inspired (some would say evolved from) ancient religions of indigenous peoples.  Most of these old tribes were most concerned with fertility, and that was what they worshiped.  The horns on the head of the "Horned God" are representations of the fertility of horned beasts in spring time, the time of the year he rules.  If you don't think this is a reasonable parallel to draw, I invite you to observe how often deer, or even cattle for that matter, can mate in a single day if given opportunity!

The reason I think the horns became associated with Satan in Christianity was due to the insistence that sex was the gravest of sins.  Here these people are worshiping it!  We must stop them!  That was the basic evolution of that, win converts.  We aren't talking about the most educated of people, we are talking about primitive cultures, most thought, if our gods couldn't help us defeat them, that must mean that their gods are stronger and we should listen to them concerning this.  At least that was what my Comparative Religions teacher said in high school.

Just my 2 cents.

Bloodsong

[CaCoDeMoN]

Hi!
The pentagram is a positive symbol. When pointed upwards it's a symbol of humanity, or human(four points representing arms and legs, fifth one - head). The pentagram in a circle is interpreted as a symbol of protection. There are even some Christians wearing it.
When pointed downwards it's typically interpreted as a symbol of Satanism and Satan.
This is a typical point of view but according to Spiritual Satanists it has other meaning: they say that pentagram pointed downwards means focus on physical world and that pointed upwards focus on spiritual world.
I don't know how(if at all) it really works, but it certainly does not carry negative energy.
About horns: in some ancient cultures like Summeria gods were often depicted with horns. There's nothing wrong with that.

One person said that in the Bible the pentagram symbolises a goat's head - ie, Satan

Could you tell me exactly at what verses pentagram is mentioned?

I'm not very religious, but I'm very scared. I don't want to pass judgement on anyone, I know that people that practice magick are usually very well mannered people and very nice....but I can't help but feel that the Christians might have been right. That there might be some sort of deception going on here, as if something is playing nice when it's actually being nasty.

Bible clearly states that all kinds of magic and witchcraft are evil and should never be practiced(in Old Testament). When people are powerless they are easier to control.
If you are afraid that by doing Wicca rituals you will be worshipping something evil, why you need to engage in any rituals at all? Magick can be used without any rituals, gods and other entities, and be very effective.
BTW, my opinion on Wicca is that it has too much theory and too small amount of practice, it's like a religion. Real power can be achieved quickly by energy work(only when using good systems), meditation(like Vipassana) and trance meditation.

[Phoenix-09]

I agree completely. Energy work and meditation have been my guidance thus far, and rituals and things like that have been utterly ridiculous. I was just seeing what magick was really all about and I got afraid because of what I've been taught.

You've both taught me valuable information. Thanks.

~Phoenix ^_^

[Wizard of Light]

That is the problem with the shows of today - they reinforce the horrible lies that the Catholic church started many many years ago.

If you do some research of your own, you will find that the pentagram is actually a very old symbol for protection.  It is meant to have one single point facing upwards and it's five points symbolise earth, air, fire, water and spirit.

It has been some "satanist" movements that turned the pentagram upside down to represent the two horns of satan, and become known as a symbol for satan.  

Television has emphasised this, by using the pentagram in their movies and shows that have evil demons, nasty witches, and all kinds of horror, running around with pentagrams as a sign of their allegiance to satan and all that is evil.  It disgusts me when I see this, but it is not the first or last time that symbols which are actually perfectly good, have been taken and twisted to represent something heinous.  Did you know that the swaststika, the symbol that was used by Hitler, is an ancient symbol of beneficial cosmic power?  But what do people know it for?

Bloodsong is correct about the Horned God.  It was a Pagan representation of the God.  It actually existed before the Catholic church made it big.  When the Catholic Church wanted to stop people practicing Paganism, they started taking over the Pagan days of celebration with their own, and they also turned the Pagan God (or Horned God) into what is now known as the Devil.  This was to put the fear of God into any who revered him - and ultimately scare them away.

Sounds to me, Pheonix, like they are still having success with that one...

[CaCoDeMoN]

Did you know that the swaststika, the symbol that was used by Hitler, is an ancient symbol of beneficial cosmic power?

Yes, it was and is used in India, even word swastika has been taken from sanskrit language. It was said that some Buddhist saints left swastika shaped footprints (a nazi saints? )

[IC]

The nazi swastika is the inverted version of the Indian swastika...

Why do you need a password to view the information in www.wiccaforbeginners.com ?

What IS wicca anyway?

[bloodsong]

Quick and easy answer to the question about the password is so that the owners of the site have a running total on how many different users are accessing the site.

As for what is Wicca:

It is a full system of religion based mainly on the ancient practices of indigenous peoples the world over and the writings of Gerald Gardner immediately following the repealing of the Witchcraft Laws of England.  There has been immense growth in the religion since the book "Witchcraft Today" was published, and the American continent now has a reported number of "traditions" (think, Catholics, Protestants, et. al. are all Xian, trads are different types of Wicca) somewhere in the thousands, with many being unreported and millions being solitary practitioners, not following any certain tradition.  If you would like to know more about the basics inherent to almost every trad, this is as good a place as any to start:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

Bloodsong

[IC]

thanks