Fotamecus - bending time magickally

[Kiflarer]

i read it quickly i will read it better tomorow its kinda late now i will look at it good seems interesting tho...

[Ramiel]

Oazaki, what are your thoughts on Chaos and Blood magick supposedly being inherently negative in nature, and thus dangerous and destructive?

[Oazaki]

quote:Originally posted by Ramiel

Oazaki, what are your thoughts on Chaos and Blood magick supposedly being inherently negative in nature, and thus dangerous and destructive?

neither are of themselves negative, "negativity" depending on how a force or form of magick is used as opposed to its inherent, essential nature.  for example, one could use demons to kill george w bush or, for argument's sake, to have killed hitler before he brought about the atrocities which he was responsible for.  now, would that be a case of "positive" or "negative" magick?

"good" and "bad", like all morality, are just illusions put there to control and limit humanity, and as limiting illusions you would do best to dispose of them.

light and dark do, however, exist.  that does not mean that one of them is superior to the other though, nor that one is to be judged as "good" and worthy and the other as "bad" and to be shunned.  view it as yin and yang or as male and female if it helps.  more deeply though, the relavent lesson here is that of unconditionality, specifically unconditional love.  unconditional love, you see, loves unconditionally, ie it accepts unconditionally. That is to say, it loves and accepts all regardless of their nature. To accept and to love only the good and the light is to love conditionally, ie to love only conditional upon your "approval" of that which is loved. This is not the way of unconditional nor is it an embodiment of unconditional love.

all forms of magick, and indeed all the operations of the creation on all its levels, are but tools for you (as Spirit) to use to fulfill your purpose here in the lower three worlds of mind and matter.  as such, if a tool is necessary or useful to your path then use it.  and know that it was created with a purpose and that it, like all else in this creation, comes from god and is part of his design.

turning to the two types of magick you mentioned specifically, chaos magick does sometimes involve the use of chaos itself but such instances are usually basically along the lines of "this is what i want to do, i'll just put the energy out there in some way and let the universe take care of the details".  more often though it consists of  practices which are more loosely structured and open-ended than the operations of formal, ceremonial magick.  for example, where the ceremonial magician might summon sitri (a goetic demon) according to very formal procedures in order to fufill a particular aim he might have, whilst the chaos mage would go about fulfilling that aim by means of a "pretty woman" (as in the film) servitor.

as regards blood magick, well blood is the most effective way to seal and bind something to the physical.  personally, i don't think it's worth the effort to "pump up" a working through the use of blood magick / sacrifice as it's much easier to do that by means of directly energetic means i find.  still, some others would disagree on this.

personally, i've used both chaos and blood magick in my stuff, if that's of any relevance to you...

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Ramiel]

I appreciate your response. However I never stated anything about "good and bad" but about negativity - as in negative vibration, which is the polar opposite of positive vibration, and from which balance is derrived from the existence of both.

I've been looking into magick more but am unsure as to which I should adopt so I'm still researching and reading what I can.

[Spider Circus]

Well, you are off a little on a couple of points.  First off, 'negative' as in a polarity, as well as 'positive' have to be utilized within any given approach to the Art.  As well it should be noted, that negative or 'passive' energies are usually the least destructive, or easier to work with.  Chaos magic is a fairly positive or active system, but lacks distinct structures, which allows for both a beneficial space for personalization or enough rope to hang yourself.   As do most systems.

 Blood rites, aren't a system but rather an avenue to gnosis, which is nessecary in all systems.  None are inherently destructive unless you are inherently destructive.  Personally, I think chaos magic is a good place to start learning, but back it up by looking into as many other systems as you can.  Eventually, one day you'll realise you have accidently created your own.

Spider

[Ramiel]

I stated they were inherently negative. This would indicate that at their root and foundation they have a bias towards negative vibration.

Killing someone because you were told to by a commanding officer doesn't make the act of murder positive because it was for a justified purpose. Its not positive. It is inherently negative. You might see it as positive because you are doing it for what you believe is an appropriate cause.

The same applies for magick, and the various different disciplines of it.

[Oazaki]

quote:Originally posted by Ramiel

I appreciate your response. However I never stated anything about "good and bad" but about negativity - as in negative vibration, which is the polar opposite of positive vibration, and from which balance is derrived from the existence of both.


well, even if any sort of magick was "inherently negative in nature" - and no form of magick, of itself, is - it would not therefore be "dangerous and destructive".  that would depend on what the magick is used for you.  and sure, you can use magick to kill and destroy but equally you can use it to heal and create.  it all comes down to personal use and intent really.  here, as everywhere.

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Spider Circus]

Oh for Jesus sake, man your not hearing me.  Negative/Passive/Female as opposed to Positive/Active/Male are polarities within magick and no system is inherently either, although most newer schools lean a little to the positive side, the older a little to negative side.

 Yes, yes, you stated they were negative. I stated you were wrong.  Which you were.  Destruction is an outcome, not a method.  If you have only chaos, in its purity, you have destruction.  If you have order, in its purity, you have stagnation and again destruction.  The various approaches to the Art can not be defined in these ways.  I prefer Linear and Non-Linear myself.  Logical or abstract.  Think philosophical in terms, they are more applicable to magick than religious terminology.

 As for Fotamecus, sounds like a Z-List experiment.  Personally, I have always prefered the Daoist approach to dealing with time, which is to experience every moment as the eternity it in fact is.  We got one Chronos already, and personally I don't like him very much.

 Whats your paradigm Oazaki?

Spider

[Colin]

I believe Fotamecus represents a model of time similar to the Daoist paradigm you speak of, Spider Circus. A concept of time as malleable and infinite, so to speak. Supposedly Fotamecus has gained enough power to wage war against Chronos and the concept of structured, linear time he represents. I wonder what will happen if he wins.

[Ramiel]

"Spider Circus" :

I am not wrong. In fact I am correct. Just because you cannot comprehend my statements or, I cannot relate them to you more easily does not mean that my views are incorrect.

On the other hand there are no limitations of incorrectness or "wrong" - they are simply words that limit just like "good" and "bad".

No need to get in an uproar because you fail to percieve. Good day.

[Oazaki]

quote:Originally posted by Spider Circus

 As for Fotamecus, sounds like a Z-List experiment.  Personally, I have always prefered the Daoist approach to dealing with time, which is to experience every moment as the eternity it in fact is.  We got one Chronos already, and personally I don't like him very much.

 Whats your paradigm Oazaki?


well, like colin said, fotamecus actually intends to destroy chronos.  it is what he now views as his "mission and purpose" as it were.  which basically means that once that's happened bye-bye the restricting experience of time as linear for humanity.  which will be good.  []

in terms of using fotamecus to bend time under the current set-up where time does, to a very significant extent, exist for humanity as a linear perception, well he *is* very good at what he does.  i wouldn't have recommended using him otherwise.

ultimately of course what i seek is to master time completely and be able to use it, in every way, as nothing more than a tool which is under my frim and conscious control.

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Oazaki]

Have any of you heard of Fotamecus?  He started out life as a simple servitor for the purposes of time compression / expansion and progressed very rapidly to egregore-hood and from thence to full-blown godhood (with a little help re: the granting to him of his own soul and Spirit).  He's actually very good at what he does and also very easy to use.  Say, for example, that you want a boring class to go faster.  Focus on Fotamecus (via his sigil if you like) and ask him to compress time for you for the duration of that lesson.  

Don't forget to tell him what to do with that compressed time or you'll just get it fed back to you later on at some point that might be inconvenient.  Or if you prefer you could just tell him to redistribute the excess time from the compression he's done for you to wherever he thinks it is best used.  Fotamecus' great strength you see is that, not only is he able to compress / expand time, but he also was a "viral servitor" for a time ie able to spawn copies of himself.  And he still retains that ability.  In practical terms what this means for you when you use him is that he can compress time for you and then deposit the "excess time" so generated somewhere else where it is needed (via another aspect / copy of himself).  And similarly when you ask him to expand time for you (eg to make your holiday last longer).

But yeah, he is really easy to use and that's great for those just starting out.  Here's a link which has some more details on Fotamecus and also a graphic of his sigil:

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/fotamec1.html

let me know what you all think.

all the best,
Oazaki.