Schizophrenia or Magia

[Tisha]

The phenomena a schizoprenic or psychotic person experiences is probably very similar to the otherworldy phenomena experieced by many occult practitioners and mystics (mystical people aren't all mage; not every mage is a mystic - - - there's overlap, I'm certain - - - there's even overlap in the psychotic mage who's losing control over his experience)

The differences:

a Mage can will self back and forth from the otherworld, in a  shamanistic manner.

a Mage will be able to control (more or less) the otherwordly experience in a way that serves him/her

a Mage can make sense of the confusing imagery before him/her

a Mage can explain his/her otherworldly experiences to the common man (whether or not common man understands it is another matter)

And most importantly, a mage can take these experiences and transform his/her life with them, chang reality in accordance with his Will.

A psychotic can do none of these things well, if at all.

my two cents

[curiousgirl]

well, i don't know anything about mages, and i'm not going to pretend to be a psychology expert, but from what i can gather about schizophrenics is that they tend to be in a "hallucinated" "fantasy" world that apparently they did not really intentionally make or try to visit, and are unaware that their "hallucinations" are just "hallucinations".  they get very much involved in what's going on in the "fantasy" their minds create, and can't separate it from what's going on in this world.  have you ever seen the movie "a beautiful mind"?  it's an american film, and i guess it might be more consumerist entertainment, but it is a true story about the life of a mathematician who was schizophrenic (yes, i do on occasion watch a movie or two, usually urged into it by my friends... and i do like to watch educational shows... i don't really consider that brainless crap).  perhaps if you could watch that movie, it would give you an idea of schizophrenia.

[clandestino]

in a word, control.

the psychiatric patient does not have the facility to control the environment he /she experiences...

[n/a]

the Schizo is the person who -"when hears a voice
from the next room", he thinks he is being adressed as a Mage.
(Schizophrenic dreams he is a Mage.)
and Schizo can always give you a proof, give everyone around him the proof "for his Magic",results,stories etc!
-they are well informed, always.

and Schizophrenic life aim is to convince all the people in his "powers".
but you can always recognize him for his "powers" to talk to much  and say nothing.
just to confuse you.(unconscioussley.)

I just like their voices in the "next room"!
angels, entities, liveformes and even-Godforms!
-they can communicate with all of them!

[Tisha]

That was very poetic []  but you only described the psychotic; you didn't describe the mage.  Try again: Chapter 2 of the poem.

[n/a]

yes, I only described the Schizophrenic.
that is my goal.
to create a gap between.
there is no need to describe a real mage.

[n/a]

What is the difference between Schizophrenic and Mage?

[gothpyre]

There are 3 types
1. schizoid-no interest for social anything, belief in magic
2. schizo typical-same as schizoid a little more social and a few other things I can't remember
3. schizophrenic-lives in a fantasy world with no control, multiple personalities, hallucinations, hears voices(I new a guy who was like this and he thought he was a powerful magician, he also told me he rode a magical dragon that came out of his mind and gave him his power, also he told me he drank from the fountain of youth in his head and he was going to live forever, he was on a lot of medication but it did not help much)

So according to modern psychology every person who believes in magic fits into one of these 3 types.  But as we know psychology is far from science since most of it is based on speculation and is very new.  Magic is thousands of years old and has been a part of every culture in ever part of the world.  You believe what you want, and thats I all I got to say.

[aryanknight666]

gothpyre,
schizoid personality disorder is where one experiences some characteristics of a schizophrenic personality, like delusion and being withdrawn, but not enough to be schizophrenic.
Schizotypal is just where you don't show much emotion and where you are sort of indifferet to social relationships, something like that. Do a search on these two personalty disorders you will get a more detailed and probably more accurate description.
The thing is, I don't see why one can't be a schizophrenic, or have any of the two aforementioned personality disorders and still be involved with magick. The delusions should be obvious to someone who is suffereing from a psychosis and the hallucinations will as well. There is treatment and therapy. A psychosis is where someone has delusions and/or hallucinates, most of the time its both and this psychosis can be a result of many things including schizophrenia. The psychosis is not constant and all consuming, the symptoms happen and pop up every now and then and are not curable neccesarily --- but treatable.
You can distuinguish between 'reality' and delusion or hallucination, especially with hallucination.

[violetrose]

Dear gothpyre,

I had an interesting experience with a schizophrenic.  A friend had a nervous breakdown and I was visiting them in the hospital.  They shared a room with a schizophrenic girl.  She was a brilliant violin player.  She often played for the other patients.  I kept wanting to ask her if she could play a composition by Paganini.  Well, she read my mind and said she would play Mozart since she did know any Paganini by heart.  I was floored.  Not to say this one experience means all schizophrenics are psychics but I have my suspicion that there is an openess of mind and potential knack for mental telepathy.  It maybe ill adviced for a schizophrenic to open themselves even more if the mind is already having issues.  Even if they are on meds and start seeing manifestations they have to wonder if the meds wore off or if the medication needs to be uped.  

However, if a schizophrenic was determined do magic I would recommend they look at Bardon's Step 1 and 2 and spend a great deal of time on the soul mirror work, meditations, affirmations, mind discipline etc.  This may even help alleviate their schizophrenia through mental disciplining.  Only after great mastery of these two steps would I recommend moving forward.  But I will say this.  I make the same recommendation for any magician.  Step 1 and 2 affect all the steps that come after.  To be really good at magic mastery of these first two steps is crucial.  Rawn's has a good website for Bardon.
http://www.abardoncompanion.com/
Also, presently I am working with Robert to greatly expand and better explain Steps 1 and 2.        

Best Regards,
violetrose

p.s. Have you seen the movie, "A Beautiful Mind"?  It is about a Nobel Prize winning university professor who had schizophrenia and how he dealt with his halluciantions.  Fascinating flick.

[daem0n]

shizophrenics are usually opent to more planes of reality and don't know what to make out of it
interesting spin:
we know that thoughts are powerful, if they are natural psychic this gets amplified, so when they start thinking that something is there they CREATE IT, and then it's really there as thoughtform, usually too subtle to pick it up
and bardon saves the day, as usual, saved my a** for sure

[aleshah]

sorry for backtracing..

a magician can re-use external and internal objects/toughts to achieve his goal.most he puts in a
very long time loop, it is hard to recognize his pure
adept-energy toughts....

a schizo is stuck on mind, his acts are most based of personal problems,uses his personality to hide or achieve his goal, while his toughts are unpure, to far splitted , to schizo...

[Tyciol]

If she really can read minds, you might wonder if she isn't schizophrenic at all, maybe she just couldn't block out other people's voices and didn't know not to tell others about them because they wouldn't understand.

[Ensoñador]

Hello Schizo friends:


We are all crazy because we all percive differences between "me and you" or "this and that".   Any perception is an hallucination.  In order to percive there most be a perceptor, in order to be a perceptor there most be something to be percieved. But nor the subjet or the objet are real. It´s all "The Mind" playing with itself, and only realizing who the player Is, we can recover our sanity.

Schizo means divided, not integrated with the Big Whole, experiencing the lack of love or union. Gods creation is like a Big Bang, a big psicotic breakdown, a huge well planed and virtual fragmentation of the Whole. Reintegration is the process of recovering the ground of reallity, were we already are happy beings. (Evolution)

The world of a schizofrenic is a constant battle between life and death, to be be not to be, and ilussion of lack of plentyness, sustained in the mind.
See, the most frecuent topics of their hallucinations are: being so great to be chassed, or being so evil to be punished.  Both show a lot of self importance,...these guys take themselfs very seriously. They dont know their inner greatness, so they have to construct a world where they are important enough.  The world they know is one of emptyness, one of phisical and psychologycal abuse. Their egos where not enough reinforced to have at least, a good dream, just as we schizofrenics of normal day life do.

There is only suffer where there is an "I" who suffers. I think thats our original sin, to believe in ourselfs as separated entitys. Sin is the well planed error in our consciousness, the big time or oportunity to be an actor and not who we really are. We became so enajenated, so in "love" with our role, and we forgot we were acting. Since then, the universal forces are helping us to cure our cosmic amnesia and psichosis.

The magic is the ability to play consciusly with our own mind and in deep levels, thus afecting the virtual world around us. Magicians know how to alter perception, but they recognize all the time "That" wich can not be altered. Wisdom is the ability to descriminate the real from the unreal.

Schizofrenics are more conscious about death than we are. Their intuition tells them that they are not real or alive at all , and they run away from that feeling and try hardously to be real. They have unpurposely discovered the iulsion of individuality.  The magician discovers not only is own unrealness, but his inner realness or true being, and thats waht saves him from crazyness.

When we all ordinary peaple die, we become psichotic, for we will have to make front to our own extintion as separated individuals, and our happy crossover will depend in our capacity of letting go; not only our familiy and things, but our own ego. If we fear we will suffer terrible hallucinations, if we feel guilty we will create a scenario of punishment until we let go or forgive ourselfs, if we have desires to conserve a body and see our ancestors we will. That could happen until we realize and acept we were death from the beginning and become absorved into vacuity (buddist vacuity). Earth, Hell and Heaven, their are both insane, cause even in the high planes where ther are still distinctions, or mental creations, we havent yet returned to what we really are.  In order to be born in the world, God had to become a man, in order for a man to become one with God, he has to "regret" being just man. Its like waking up from a dream. Death is like stoping dreaming. All characters (egos) vanish, so we stop being the dream and awake being the dreamer.

                             
Freedom is when we are already awake but we can still dream what we want consciously. We would never again forget who we are, unlees God  or we want to play it all over again, and again, and again.


Good bye, dear loony house partners