On creating a robotic golem - the REAL AI!!

[shadowatcher]

I think there are two kinds of science. The abstract science used by Quantum Scientists and theoligians. Then there is the other kind, the exact science, which has to obey certain laws and rules. Is it possible to combine the two? I think it would be cool to try to find out!

[Rob]

Hey!!

The theories, yup, tricky to mesh them together (quantum Vs relativity, microscopic Vs macroscopic). But the practicalities - its done all the time! Although, to the best of my knowledge, people have yet to combine the magical with the technical. Too much of a huge gaping chasm that exists between the two parties (err from the pseudo-closed minded-scientists perspective anyway []) for them to work together for the most part. And grants needed etc etc etc....

Rob

[Noxerus]

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[Rob]

Noxerus - you've read that book? GGrr!! Jealous!! Its too expensive for my student pocket []. Although I might persuade some people next year to buy it with me.

"What ever happened to "simply" engineering a living mind using EM waves polarized on the t-axis?"
Please explain this in more detail!
To me, the fact that OBE's are possible tells me that the mind is not based in the physical, and that the brain simply serves as part of a mechanism linking mind into the body. Therefore for a fully functioning mind you need to have a variable that starts off completely disconnected from the physical (ie the thought form) - em waves dont seem to be able to fit this, but that could just be a hole in my understanding....??

[Noxerus]

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[Rob]

Hey Noxerus!!

You post made me smile! [] And, if you are happy to see that I am an engineer, then I am very happy to see that you are only 16 - WOW!!! I am seriously impressed.....
Lol, engineering, damn today I wish I had taken quantum mechanics or something hehe, but  yeah, you are probably right that the world does need more open minded engineers as a priority. Its just a shame that engineering is so bloody boring!!

Btw, I have some experience with Bearden, having read a lot of his website and most of Excalibur Briefing. Lol took a couple of weeks before I was able to understand ANYTHING he was saying (totally impenetrable at first) but I have some sort of a grasp of it now...

quote:That dream, I believe, we two have in common (well, that and the desire to build a robot who has a non-physical AI instead of physical AI).

Oh yeah, absolutely - I guess that really is one of the Holy Grails of our research.
I think my biggest dream, and has been for some time now, is to get advanced technologies, technologies that affect the spirit, or hell anything like this to market. That these things have been so rigorously suppressed for so long, is one of the biggest crimes in human history. Rife, AG, FE, ORMUS, etc etc. Any of these would do, and would force a leap in understanding as they hit the mainstream. And, I think it may be possible to get them out there, if you know where to start from, and if you are cunning enough!

You know about ORMUS - sweet!
A relatively obvious thing to remember, which I am sure you are already considering, would be that ormes exist only 56% in the physical so its entirely likely, indeed almost certain, that they can be effected directly from the etheric, and the signals picked up here in the physical. The only question that then remains is how is this info extracted and inputted into the human mind - ie how do the neurons interact with (probably) the meissner field? Lol looks like I will have to look at how matures's done it after all.
Fffggrr, running on extremely limited information here....
But, it has to be said that I think this line of thinking is closer than anything being studied in any university. Which is pretty cool, when you think about it, that the emphasis is now on people like you and me to find the answers to such enormous question!

Anyway, enjoy your trip, and I look forward to hearing from you again!

cheers
Rob

ps How far experienced are you with Bardons Initiation into Hermetics, if I may ask?

[Noxerus]

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[Rob]

Hey Noxerus! []

"You might be impressed that I'm just 16, but it's not as if I'm as intelligent as I may sound."
LOL YEAH RIGHT!! You are reading Bearden and studying calculus in your spare time!!
And, being lazy hehehe you are like me there then. Totally know what you mean, I've been reading and theorising and building up concepts for a few years now, but only recently have I started putting these things into some practise (fringe tech stuff mostly). Computers are a big distraction...
Btw - do you recommend Beardens "Energy from the Vacuum"?

"Until very recently, the emotional aspects of my life were completely messed up (long and extremely stupid story - heck, I am 16.5 after all, as much as I try to rise above that)"

Yep.....hehe thats being a teenager. Do you meditate?

"*Somewhat angry at himself* just noticed that certain portions of this post of mine might sound patronizing. I deeply apologize in advance if this indeed is the case..."

No, not at all, and please dont worry about that kind of thing with me anyway! Besides, I'm quite aware of how much a slut the internet can be like that...

"As for ORMUS metals - I'm only lightly familiar with the subject, so there's a lot I can (and should) learn about it from you before I can genuinely contemplate their practical use for such goals."

Oh boy, you shouldn't have said that.......
OK! ORMUS metals, when converted from their base metal state, lose 4/9ths or 44% of their weight. This ties in with our theoretical understanding of exotic matter. The missing portion is, litereally, not here - ie not in our physical dimension. Even more extreme, if you heat and cool the stuff its mass changes, varying from many times is original weight to less than nothing, and this antigravity effect is even transferred to whatever it is touching (probably whatever is within its meissner field). When ormes reaches a certain temperature (in the absence of oxygen) it completely disappear - and, its not just that they have become invisible, it is literally not here. You can wave objects around in the space it was occupying, then cool the stuff back down, and it will reappear in exactly the same place and position it left (which begs the question - how is it being heated and cooled at all from the physical?? One of the odder properties of EM waves, presumably).
So, the "not here" portions, physicists would say that they are in a higher dimension. Metaphysicists would also say the same thing - but give the higher dimension a name like the astral. Almost certainly then, the astral portion of the ormes can be directly affected by the mind, and the effects are produced on said ormes - part there, part here, so the effects from there can be picked up here.....get it? I think I'm making it sound more complicated than it is. The mind affects the ormus, the physical can pick up those effects. This stuff really is the bridge between the two worlds - and in my mind, after thinking about it in this thread, I am left with no doubt that it IS how the mind and body connect. At least, it is one way, there may be other.
Relating this to the golem, and the brain, its gonna take some real head scratching to work out how the signals are picked up on the physical. Maybe instead of forming one meissner field per brain there are thousands, MILLIONS! for each neuron or cluster of them. We really really need more info...
Oh ya, the Meissner field. Well, ya know how say magnets have electromagnetic fields? The meissner field is like that, only its a light field. ie a field composed of photons - although not quite, actually made of things very close to photons. Its pretty cool really, David Hudson (bloke who "discovered" this stuff) uses Beardens reverse time theories. So what we are actually looking at, he says, is an electron and positron (reverse time electron) being added together, the result being a ummmm forget the name if there is one, but its very similar to a photon (although it flows at the speed of sound, and other oddities)
The meissner field can hold, indefinately, any energy (and information?), you put into it. It flows around the ormus, with no energy loss at all. The meissner field is individual to each quantity of ormes which are entagled together. Also, energy can be transferred between the meissner fields, without the ormues touching. With no energy loss. But getting energy out of the stuff is trickier, you need to form a resonator at the same speed as the ormus, link to it and out flows the energy ((eg?) as electrons).
Ormus appears to be used throughout the body, not just the brain.
You've heard in mystic terms that we all high a "light body" right?? Well!! Guess what....
Lets seeeee what else.....
Oh yeah, links at www.subtleenergies.com for the most info, and some mp3's with Hudson talking about all of the above at http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/hudson/
Lots of other cool stuff relating to ormus - its history is MIND BLOWING.
OK this is probably long enough now, if you have any question shoot
laters
Rob

[Noxerus]

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[Rob]

Hey!!

Well, now its my turn to go on holiday - for 2 weeks, sailing and mooching through Turkey.

"Oh, another field which I believe can help discover the secrets of the brain/mind interaction, is brainwave entrainment using light and sound (for the purpose of achieving alternate states of consciousness). If you're not already familiar with the subject (on a deeper level than the one usually discussed in the OBE forums of this site , I'd be glad to elaborate on it after I come back."

A damn good point, I'll have a hard think about that......hrrmmmm

Your experiment - yes, does sound a good one! Unfortunetly, there are too few people researching this topic, and fewer still with the resources to do something like that. David Hudson would have been able to, but I dont know what happened to him after the FDA and chums shut his plant down......

"Your nick - isn't an Inguma some kind of Spanish evil night spirit?"

eeeeeeeeerrrrrrr yyyeeeeeeaaahhh.......
......
I play a lot of action quake 2!! I was young and wanted a cool sounding eeevil name to kill people with!!! Lol, so inappropriate these days, I really should change but then nobody would know me! Although that might be for the better, I dunno. lol. oh well.

hope you enjoyed your holiday - I gotta run!
laters
Rob

[Rob]

Okeydokie – Nox man, you there?? How was your holiday? Mine was good, did some thinking....

Your comment about resonating frequencies and etc being an important factor in the mind, got mine working. I now believe that ORMUS might be capable of taking us a long way into a fully scientific description of the energy body and etc. I'll write this along the lines of how I wrote it earlier, apologies if its messy (there may also be some inaccuracies in the science). Further, I now have more questions than I started with, as is the way with these things!:

Meissner fields have the property that when they are resonating in harmony (ie at the same rate, don't think it works with different harmonic, not sure), and they touch, they link together and energy (and presumably therefore info) can flow between them. Boy! Does that sound familiar? Eg q-links work by helping the body to resonate in harmony, meaning info can flow more easily throughout with less distortion.
IMO the Meissner field of the human body is the aura. So:

- Colours of chakras are their auras are described in terms of colours of light. Is it possible that different ormes have their own unique colours? Or are they easy, ie can be changed to whatever rate? My intuition says the latter.
- Primary chakra has resonance that controls/goes through whole body eg nervous system – brain perhaps too?
- Feet resonate with earth - draws energy in from earth
  - Through what? A form of quantum resonance? Meissner fields touching?
- Secondarys link different fields of resonance - how? Through vortex's of light. Previous theory of mine on this is that if you have an attractor in the middle of a spinning medium, as in physical forces, you can cause the medium to spin faster and faster as is gets towards the middle, and when it does, the medium is siphoned off along the meridians. Now I need to know if this would work with spinning light in the meissner field, I see no reason why not, but this needs investigating. eg can the rate of vibration of the meissner field actually be described in terms of the rate of flow of the light?
- Energy body corresponds to the nervous system - of course! This is a fact often used to "debunk" acupuncture. And yet along the nerves is where you would expect to find high quantities of ormus - it can have a strong healing effect there if taken.
    - But then, what about the 4 pathways that run up the outside of the legs and arms? - need medical opinion.

Big questions:
1) Why do we need strong meissner fields?
2) What is it powering?
3) How? How does meissner link to the mind?
4) How does the mind move energy? - necessary to get into assumption territory (mind always is a spanner in the works of science!)

Answers:
2 - Experience shows that increased energy (arguing this is through the meissner field) powers consciousness, ie links the mind stronger into the body (err...). Also, if high enough, psychic abilities.
I feel that it is an assumption to say that the meissner field directly powers anything. I think it much more likely that it simply serves as a conduit for energy transmission throughout body and mind and etc.
3 - Let us assume as fact that mind connects to body through ormus. It is known from experience that harmonics are important for easy flow and exchange of energy and info. Discord and etc breaks the harmony - energy will then be required to re-establish it. The spiritual life is the way of harmony - it therefore wastes less energy! The mundane life is filled with discordant thoughts, and thoughts have their own vibrations, so we are all in the process of a running battle to hold resonance and expending a lot of energy trying to re-establish harmony. Presumably resonance with the mind and ormes is how we link to out bodies.

I am doing some thinking on the nature of cancer with all this too, but I've leave that for another day [] My head is spinning! This all seems rather weak now, I thought it was quite good when I came up with it. Oh well. Thoughts? And have you still got those questions?

peace
Rob

[beavis]

Where can I get some ormus metals?

[Rob]

You can extract your own, using magnets and stuff attached to your water system or whatever (being superconductors, they are repelled by magnetic fields). Or extract the stuff eg from sea-water using highly alkaline substances (NaOH - lye - most often used). All this at http://www.subtleenergies.com - you might want to read up some of the "reported effects" people have had first though. There's a HUGE amount of other very very good info there, recommend you get to know the effects of each of the main metals first to help you choose should you go buying (not that we really know a huge amount, mind you). Or just get a general starter load with high rhodium, iridium and some gold.

Alternatively if you want to buy it, you might want to try http://www.life-enthusiast.com/ormus/index.htm - recently bought some Ocean Alchemy "Great Salt Lake Manna" for my grandad (has alzheimers). He'll get it in a week or so, I'll post whatever effects it has (if any) either here or on a new thread if I ever get round to writing it. In the meanwhile I'm taking it myself. Its effects have not been earth shattering, but there's definately something going on. Later today I'm going to meditate for half an hour, take some, then carry on meditating to see what it does.
There are other good places you can buy from - a short list at http://www.graal.co.uk/whitepowdergold.html eg http://www.liquid-chi.com/ seem to know what they are doing
....take your pick.....

[Noxerus]

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[Cruel Tendencies]

Orgone is just another name for energy... chi, ki, qi, life force, Holy Spirit... it's all the same stuff.  In fact, the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament was a giant orgone accumulator


Paul

[Noxerus]

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[Rob]

Oh hello there - welcome back! I've doing fine thanks - back at uni, the world has gone quite hazy all of a sudden [8D]. How's about you? Got any exciting new theories?!?

Yes, I am familiar with orgonomy and reich. Alas I still have no idea why sheets of metal and non-metal should cause a flow of orgone energy. Perhaps something to do with resonance setting up standing fields with potential differences in the (magnetic?) sub-structure, or something []

I've just been reading something interesting in a book on auras - experiments done show that the human body gives off light from what appears to be a cellular level, enough to be measured with extremely sensitive equipment in a dark room. But the effects lasts after the subject has left the room - for about 20 minutes there are still photons being ejected from where the subject was standing. Curious. Emissions were measured in the visible and UV regions of the spectrum (IR emissions would obviously be impossible to seperate from normal hot body radiation so they were not measured). So now the ether much be brought in too!! AAARRGGG!!!! It just refuses to be simple doesn't it!? hehe sweet.

aho
Rob

[Noxerus]

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[Rob]

I've had this idea, which I've been pondering for some time, about how to create a truly sentient being based in robotic form. Well, it actually deleoped first when I realised that people who are persuing AI based solely in computers are barking up the wrong street, and that magicians have been creating their own "artificial intelligences" in the form of thought forms/servitors/etc for a looooooong long long time.
So, to create a full functioning, sentient, robot, you need a way of linking the etherial to the material. The first thought that comes to mind would be to study the brain from this perspective, to see if we can find the precise mechanisms already used in nature. But, the brain is immensely complex, and I have other plans!!!
What you need, IMO (and this might be whats happening in the brain already, I dont know), is a sort of quantum switching mechanism. Perhaps something that produces random output which can easily be modified by the mind - but it would have to be a variation at the quantum (atomic) level. Perhaps something based in the spin direction of the electrons, but how to measure that, I have NO idea. HHhhhmmm I think (as I often do) that ORMUS metals could well be used - becasue they superconductors, if you affect one of the atoms, you affect all the others since they are connected through quantum entanglement - yes! Thats it!!! The brain already has 5% ORMUS rhodium/iridium in it!!! (HHmm I'll start another thread explaining what this stuff is soon, maybe someone out there knows what I'm talking about but I doubt it...). ANYWAY whatever the process used it would have to be connected to a computer which would work rather like our brain, interpreting the signals it recieves and turning them into electrical commands - perhaps it could also, later on, be used to store memories. A number of different switches would control an number of different things - one for movement, another maybe for voice (this would require a high bandwidth connection....again maybe later....tricky), etc etc.
On the other end of the switch would be the etheric body, constructed by a skilled magickian, used to support the thought form. I dont know whether it would have to be "programmed" to an extent, so that it already "knows" how to use the switches, or left completely open, so that movements and such are learned by the thought form, perhaps in the same way that babies do. Testing required.
Initially the data flow could be made only one way ie from real time astral to etheric to switch to computer which generates commands, but ideally it would work both ways so that you would give the robot end eyes, ears, etc, and basically make sure that its consciousness becomes as based in the physical as possible to stop it from dissassociating.
But ........I honestly think, that a team of skilled designers, quantum physicists, technicians, and magickians could achieve this today. It IS within our grasp! A real modern day Golem!!!!
Hehehehe think how funny it would be, to stroll into an AI conference, with a bunch of robots in tow - take the lead one up to the front, plonk it down by the speakers, and then leave! LOL......
So....yeah - comments??!
Rob