What is Magic?

[GodsProxy]

Hi, I could just as easily Google this, but since there is a whole forum dedicated to this topic, I thought I might get more authoritative replies here.

What is Magic? Is there such a thing as White Magic and black magic?

What role did Crowley play in Magick? Wasn't Crowley evil, and therefore Magick is also evil?

Is there a Magic based on pure love?

Is Magic real? Can one cast spells and such?

Apologies for the primitive sounding questions

If replies could include some kind of substantiation or references, if possible, it would be appreciated.

[ether2]

common word amongst Franz Bardons student of hermetics

a magician to me is like a Godhead a Godhead is referring to be like a God and to walk so to speak is his/hers foot steps, it is talked about with on franz Bardon sites to become a true magician a Godhead to create/reproduce like they have (Create)(Material) in time of course, i did'nt read much of the one book i got as it was given to me by a X friend that turned police informent that the police gave the book to him to give to me had other Franz's books, but did'nt pick them up long story...excell in something and the Govs try to be ya best friends...

good luck

love all

[GodsProxy]

Yes, more like a God, that is my understanding as well.

One can cast in postulate (God's Will) or in an abstracted way magically.

common word amongst Franz Bardons student of hermetics
a magician to me is like a Godhead a Godhead is referring to be like a God and to walk so to speak is his/hers foot steps

[Xanth]

We call "Magic" that which we don't understand.  That's how it's always been throughout the ages.

What people call "Magic", I call "Placing Intent".  It's nothing special... it's nothing mystical... it's about using your Intent to enact change in the world around you.

[personalreality]

Hermeticism is the way to go if you really want to understand what magic is.

Simply put, magic is the result of mastery over the mind. 

The true master is able to rise above the influences of the material plane.  They are not subject to the tides of physicality (they control their moods, feelings, environmental influences, etc.).  Thus, they see the laws of the material plane from a greater (larger) scale and position.

Read the Kybalion.  You can get it as an ebook for a couple bucks.

[Jarrod]

I read the Kybalion a few years ago and remember understanding most of what it talked about...but now I can't recall a thing.  Makes me want to read it again.  Haha.  I just remember that the writer struck me as a little close-minded and presumptuous.  I remember I found the book's content very profound but didn't really like the writer.

[Summerlander]

Aleister Crowley was a superstitious nutcase who dabbled in drugs and was obsessed with occultism and mysticism. By the way, he wasn't necessarily evil! The press at the time labelled him "evil" and "wicked" because he was outspoken and made many enemies. What his enemies didn't like was the fact that the spoke about liberation from current moral constraints. If that makes him evil then I guess the good people are the mindless ones who do as they are told in fear of the consequences.

Apart from being crazy, he also had a creative side:

HYMN TO PAN

Thrill with lissome lust of the light,
O man ! My man !
Come careering out of the night
Of Pan ! Io Pan .
Io Pan ! Io Pan ! Come over the sea
From Sicily and from Arcady !
Roaming as Bacchus, with fauns and pards
And nymphs and styrs for thy guards,
On a milk-white butt, come over the sea
To me, to me,
Coem with Apollo in bridal dress
(Spheperdess and pythoness)
Come with Artemis, silken shod,
And wash thy white thigh, beautiful God,
In the moon, of the woods, on the marble mount,
The dimpled dawn of of the amber fount !
Dip the purple of passionate prayer
In the crimson shrine, the scarlet snare,
The soul that startles in eyes of blue
To watch thy wantoness weeping through
The tangled grove, the gnarled bole
Of the living tree that is spirit and soul
And body and brain -come over the sea,
(Io Pan ! Io Pan !)
Devil or god, to me, to me,
My man ! my man !
Come with trumpets sounding shrill
Over the hill !
Come with drums low muttering
From the spring !
Come with flute and come with pipe !
Am I not ripe ?
I, who wait and writhe and wrestle
With air that hath no boughs to nestle
My body, weary of empty clasp,
Strong as a lion, and sharp as an asp-
Come, O come !
I am numb
With the lonely lust of devildom.
Thrust the sword through the galling fetter,
All devourer, all begetter;
Give me the sign of the Open Eye
And the token erect of thorny thigh
And the word of madness and mystery,
O pan ! Io Pan !
Io Pan ! Io Pan ! Pan Pan ! Pan,
I am a man:
Do as thou wilt, as a great god can,
O Pan ! Io Pan !
Io pan ! Io Pan Pan ! Iam awake
In the grip of the snake.
The eagle slashes with beak and claw;
The gods withdraw:
The great beasts come, Io Pan ! I am borne
To death on the horn
Of the Unicorn.
I am Pan ! Io Pan ! Io Pan Pan ! Pan !
I am thy mate, I am thy man,
Goat of thy flock, I am gold , I am god,
Flesh to thy bone, flower to thy rod.
With hoofs of steel I race on the rocks
Through solstice stubborn to equinox.
And I rave; and I rape and I rip and I rend
Everlasting, world without end.
Mannikin, maiden, maenad, man,
In the might of Pan.
Io Pan ! Io Pan Pan ! Pan ! Io Pan !

His Book of Thoth should be an interesting read as well as it contains instructions on how to astral project.

[personalreality]

the media didn't label him wicked and evil, he did.  he took pride in being the "most wicked man in the world". 

[Thread Killer]

Awesome Ozzy song. Rhoads' solos rip my heart out even 30 yrs later.

[GodsProxy]

Thanks everyone, awesome info.

Hey Thread, heard the Randy Rhodes tribute? Wow, man. Love that man, Ozzy.

Awesome Ozzy song. Rhoads' solos rip my heart out even 30 yrs later.

[c0sm0nautt]

I agree with Xanth - It's just focused intent. Ritual can help solidify this intent. IMO the most powerful magic is that which is allowed to flow through you from the Source. Om Mani Padme Hum 

[kahuna]

Magic, in it's simplest definition is exercising ones will to change reality. There are many theories about how it works, but in it's purest form it is energized intention.

[Selea]

the media didn't label him wicked and evil, he did.  he took pride in being the "most wicked man in the world".  

Actually no. It was the local press that labeled him as such, after the Rites of Eleusis (that were open to the public and declared openly the "Do what thou wilt"). He just called himself "Master Therion 666" at that time, (i.e. The Great Beast 666) for numerical motives coming from the Book of Law and Aiwaz etc., and yes, also for provocation, naturally.

When he was called "the wickedest man in the world"  he rejoyed from the metaphorical/phylosophical meaning at beginning and either utilized himself the phrase with pride, but then, later, he was also sad when people did take that sentence in literal terms and in fact, many years later he hated the term greatly.

[Selea]

Apart from being crazy, he also had a creative side:

The "Hymn to Lucifer" is much better, it is on par with Swinburne poetry:

Ware, nor of good nor ill, what aim hath act?
Without its climax, death, what savour hath
Life? an impeccable machine, exact
He paces an inane and pointless path
To glut brute appetites, his sole content
How tedious were he fit to comprehend
Himself! More, this our noble element
Of fire in nature, love in spirit, unkenned
Life hath no spring, no axle, and no end.

His body a bloody-ruby radiant
With noble passion, sun-souled Lucifer
Swept through the dawn colossal, swift aslant
On Eden's imbecile perimeter.
He blessed nonentity with every curse
And spiced with sorrow the dull soul of sense,
Breathed life into the sterile universe,
With Love and Knowledge drove out innocence
The Key of Joy is disobedience.

I think this is the masterpiece of Crowley.

[personalreality]

Actually no. It was the local press that labeled him as such, after the Rites of Eleusis (that were open to the public and declared openly the "Do what thou wilt"). He just called himself "Master Therion 666" at that time, (i.e. The Great Beast 666) for numerical motives coming from the Book of Law and Aiwaz etc., and yes, also for provocation, naturally.

When he was called "the wickedest man in the world"  he rejoyed from the metaphorical/phylosophical meaning at beginning and either utilized himself the phrase with pride, but then, later, he was also sad when people did take that sentence in literal terms and in fact, many years later he hated the term greatly.

I think my quote was misunderstood.  He perpetuated the idea of being wicked and evil because in all honesty he was ridiculously smart and the people around him didn't understand him, not even his students and fellow "magicians".  What they saw as evil, he saw as mastery of reality.  he was beyond morality in the sense of good and evil, it was "beneath him" as it were.  So he built it up and allowed the "impression" of being the most wicked man in the world (not necessarily the actual phrase) to continue without dispute.  Becuase he understood something that they didn't.  He was also full of himself.....perhaps rightly so.

[Selea]

I think my quote was misunderstood.  He perpetuated the idea of being wicked and evil because in all honesty he was ridiculously smart and the people around him didn't understand him, not even his students and fellow "magicians".  

Oh, that's true, and sadly, it is true even now, in fact, after all these years.

Many approach Crowley just because they think they will adore "Satan", do orgies or other idiocies as that. Even those that are intelligent enough to not do this many time falls instead on the trap of doing this or that in his books to receive some gain of some sort.

But even this it's not so bad in itself as it may seem, all in all. It is said "begin praying by mouth, then you will pray by hearth". Also if the initial approach on what you seek may be wrong (maybe because you think something it's importan when it's not), if you are determined then you will find the end, one way or another. Those that never do it is not because of the initial faulty approach, it is because they don't follow it and jump from one place to the other, depending on their "whims" of the moment.

In fact Crowley didn't despise those that approached him for the wrong motive (either him admittedly approached the Golden Dawn just to have riches and whatnot) but despised those that approached him hoping to find a guru that would give them whatever they wanted atm just because he was there. In the same way despised those that followed his words blindly.

[GodsProxy]

Yip, makes perfect sense to me now. "Most evil man in the world" what a PR joke. Food for the ignorant.

Anyway, I've placed intent in magical Love-Cast and it is awesome , just absolutely awesome.

My ambition is to become the most "lovely guy" in the world. Think the press will like that more?

I think my quote was misunderstood.  He perpetuated the idea of being wicked and evil because in all honesty he was ridiculously smart and the people around him didn't understand him, not even his students and fellow "magicians".  What they saw as evil, he saw as mastery of reality.  he was beyond morality in the sense of good and evil, it was "beneath him" as it were.  So he built it up and allowed the "impression" of being the most wicked man in the world (not necessarily the actual phrase) to continue without dispute.  Becuase he understood something that they didn't.  He was also full of himself.....perhaps rightly so.